SGT1171 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 So if SGT0001 sold for $166k last night, does anyone think that that will have a positive impact on the resale of all other SGT's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheppd01 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 No. However I do think the bottom has been reached or nearly reached for good condition STGs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyKR664 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Agree, there is still too much confusion in the marketplace for SGT's with the general public. 10 years from now when collector's may realize the significance of this product from Shelby. Having owned one, I really wish I would have kept it. The car was simplistic, gorgeous, pre-title and rare when compared to others. I noticed the Hertz#1 car's selling from $181k to $209k for #1. Heck Ron's 2013#1 went for $308k. That is surpriusing to me considering you could find a FGT in that range. The 1 of 1 glass roof KR went for $203K. A red KR with 9k miles sold for $49k. I noticed a 40th anniversary car sold for $49K . I feel they were all well bought but not well sold. Ron lost his shirt on those. Time will tell but I feel with the products coming on the market now, the CS cars will remain flat. The modern FGT is the only car that has significantly gained in value. A saw a Heritage edition FGT sold for $425k! The Series 1 cars sold from $108k to $126k. This may be a good indicator how the modern CS produced cars are perceived. They are not really moving in the collector world. Having said that, I would love to have one day, especially one of the S/C cars. There were only 50 of the 249 built with the S/C option. The buy of the auction IMO was a 96 CS edition Viper. #2 of 19 sold for $51,700. I see room for this car down the road. Probably the most track ready Mustang 2012 Nationwide Biagi-DenBeste Mustang sold for $37,900. Imagine the fun you could have with that! Bottom-line, enjoy driving your cars and leave the #1 cars to the collectors. Anyone know who bought the 427 SuperSnake? I saw it went for $5,115,000. I think Ron paid $5.4m. Ouch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMcGuirk Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Agree, there is still too much confusion in the marketplace for SGT's with the general public. 10 years from now when collector's may realize the significance of this product from Shelby. Having owned one, I really wish I would have kept it. The car was simplistic, gorgeous, pre-title and rare when compared to others. I noticed the Hertz#1 car's selling from $181k to $209k for #1. Heck Ron's 2013#1 went for $308k. That is surpriusing to me considering you could find a FGT in that range. The 1 of 1 glass roof KR went for $203K. A red KR with 9k miles sold for $49k. I noticed a 40th anniversary car sold for $49K . I feel they were all well bought but not well sold. Ron lost his shirt on those. Time will tell but I feel with the products coming on the market now, the CS cars will remain flat. The modern FGT is the only car that has significantly gained in value. A saw a Heritage edition FGT sold for $425k! The Series 1 cars sold from $108k to $126k. This may be a good indicator how the modern CS produced cars are perceived. They are not really moving in the collector world. Having said that, I would love to have one day, especially one of the S/C cars. There were only 50 of the 249 built with the S/C option. The buy of the auction IMO was a 96 CS edition Viper. #2 of 19 sold for $51,700. I see room for this car down the road. Probably the most track ready Mustang 2012 Nationwide Biagi-DenBeste Mustang sold for $37,900. Imagine the fun you could have with that! Bottom-line, enjoy driving your cars and leave the #1 cars to the collectors. Anyone know who bought the 427 SuperSnake? I saw it went for $5,115,000. I think Ron paid $5.4m. Ouch! The red KR and the 40th GT500 were not Ron Pratte cars. They were well bought at market price, but by buying them in Scottsdale the buyer paid a premium with the commission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT1171 Posted January 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT1171 Posted January 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Agree, there is still too much confusion in the marketplace for SGT's with the general public. 10 years from now when collector's may realize the significance of this product from Shelby. Having owned one, I really wish I would have kept it. The car was simplistic, gorgeous, pre-title and rare when compared to others. I am thinking that the cars are quite unique for the same reasons. And thinking that 001 selling for 5 or 6 times more might be an indication that collectors thoughts are changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMcGuirk Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Agree, there is still too much confusion in the marketplace for SGT's with the general public. 10 years from now when collector's may realize the significance of this product from Shelby. Having owned one, I really wish I would have kept it. The car was simplistic, gorgeous, pre-title and rare when compared to others. I am thinking that the cars are quite unique for the same reasons. And thinking that 001 selling for 5 or 6 times more might be an indication that collectors thoughts are changing. The selling price of the SGT 001 unfortunately not indicative of the collector car market - it is representative of the Barrett Jackson market. As a buyer, you got recognition from BJ and TV for buying a Pratte car. BJ did a very good job of hyping this collection and taking the time to ensure that Mr Pratte got all the time needed to get to his cars to an acceptable price level. I do not believe he made a significant return, if any. Remember, he paid $500K SGT 001. My impression of the collector that buys at Barrett Jackson is they are brand agnostic for the most part. They will buy a whatever that is unique, with low production numbers - with the hope that it will appreciate like the Ford GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry T Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 No. However I do think the bottom has been reached or nearly reached for good condition STGs. +1 ... once the general masses gain more information regarding the SGT it will begin to get a high market value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Bishop Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 The selling price of the SGT 001 unfortunately not indicative of the collector car market - it is representative of the Barrett Jackson market. As a buyer, you got recognition from BJ and TV for buying a Pratte car. BJ did a very good job of hyping this collection and taking the time to ensure that Mr Pratte got all the time needed to get to his cars to an acceptable price level. I do not believe he made a significant return, if any. Remember, he paid $500K SGT 001. My impression of the collector that buys at Barrett Jackson is they are brand agnostic for the most part. They will buy a whatever that is unique, with low production numbers - with the hope that it will appreciate like the Ford GT. This might not necessarily be true, since he purchased the car as a charity, he was able to right off most of the price he paid all but lets say $50k (value of the SGT at the time). So he made a huge profit selling the car at $166K! And all the other 'charity cars' he sold this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyKR664 Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 This might not necessarily be true, since he purchased the car as a charity, he was able to right off most of the price he paid all but lets say $50k (value of the SGT at the time). So he made a huge profit selling the car at $166K! And all the other 'charity cars' he sold this weekend. Very true. Ron has had some huge write offs over the years. He probably does not know if he broke even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT1171 Posted January 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Yes, there is the after tax consideration for the first buyer. Well, after that there must be other things going on. In any case I would think these cars should be going for somewhere around what they cost new, if in great condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMcGuirk Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 This might not necessarily be true, since he purchased the car as a charity, he was able to right off most of the price he paid all but lets say $50k (value of the SGT at the time). So he made a huge profit selling the car at $166K! And all the other 'charity cars' he sold this weekend. Charity contributions are not a one for one write off. If he was in the 35% tax bracket, paying $500k for a $50K car he gets a one for one on 35% of $450K - an approximate $155K tax savings. So, in my mind he paid $345K for 001 and got a return of $150K. Now depending on how he set up the LLC or corp. for his collection, he can also write off part of that loss. Only Ron's accounts and lawyers know how his foundation is set up. I am thinking this was not a money maker..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Bishop Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Charity contributions are not a one for one write off. If he was in the 35% tax bracket, paying $500k for a $50K car he gets a one for one on 35% of $450K - an approximate $155K tax savings. So, in my mind he paid $345K for 001 and got a return of $150K. Now depending on how he set up the LLC or corp. for his collection, he can also write off part of that loss. Only Ron's accounts and lawyers know how his foundation is set up. I am thinking this was not a money maker..... How would you know this? It was stated many times during the airing of the charity cars this year and in the past they are able to right off the "donation". That's why all cars sold for charities during the auctions the check is written directly to the charity and NOT through BJ. Do you actually think he 'gave' away $4M for the GM Futurline without a major tax windfall, no tax lawyer or accounting firm would ever let a client take that kind of hit, not even for charity. Another example, do you actually think Rick Hendrick would have paid over $700k for that 1 of 30 BMW (US market) out of the kindness of his heart without a tax benefit? He didn't become that wealthy throwing money out the window, charity or not.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMcGuirk Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 How would you know this? It was stated many times during the airing of the charity cars this year and in the past they are able to right off the "donation". That's why all cars sold for charities during the auctions the check is written directly to the charity and NOT through BJ. Do you actually think he 'gave' away $4M for the GM Futurline without a major tax windfall, no tax lawyer or accounting firm would ever let a client take that kind of hit, not even for charity. Another example, do you actually think Rick Hendrick would have paid over $700k for that 1 of 30 BMW (US market) out of the kindness of his heart without a tax benefit? He didn't become that wealthy throwing money out the window, charity or not.... I did not say there is no tax benefit All I know is that when I donate to charity, it is not a one for one right off. It is based on the tax bracket as I outlined above. I doubt that their is a different tax code for Ron and Rick. Now these guys may have set up and funded a charitable foundation and the tax rules may be more advantageous. I highly doubt the IRS would tolerate someone getting a $4Million one for one right off by buying the Futureliner to aid veterans. I have noticed that the bigs guys are specific about which charities the buy cars from. Let's say you a taxable income of $100million after all deductions (not unreasonable for Rick), you have a $35million tax bill. You buy that BMW, take the value of the car $200k out of it and you are left with an IRS acceptable $500k charitable donation. Take the same 35% bracket and you will reduce your $35M tax bill by $175k and feel really good about giving back to your favorite charity - they get $700k. I am no accountant, by I pay attention to mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twobjshelbys Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 The deductible amount is (amount donated) - (fair market value of anything you receive in return). So if you are at an event with a silent auction of a pair of theater tickets worth $100 and win the bid for $1000, your deducible amount is $900. Charitable contributions are a deduction not an exemption (or tax credit) so it is reduced with the other things in the same bucket, e,g. mortgage interest, accounting expenses, etc., that are reduced by a percentage of AGI, and then further reduced by the tax bracket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IASHELBYGT Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Agree, there is still too much confusion in the marketplace for SGT's with the general public. 10 years from now when collector's may realize the significance of this product from Shelby. Having owned one, I really wish I would have kept it. The car was simplistic, gorgeous, pre-title and rare when compared to others. I noticed the Hertz#1 car's selling from $181k to $209k for #1. Heck Ron's 2013#1 went for $308k. That is surpriusing to me considering you could find a FGT in that range. The 1 of 1 glass roof KR went for $203K. A red KR with 9k miles sold for $49k. I noticed a 40th anniversary car sold for $49K . I feel they were all well bought but not well sold. Ron lost his shirt on those. Time will tell but I feel with the products coming on the market now, the CS cars will remain flat. The modern FGT is the only car that has significantly gained in value. A saw a Heritage edition FGT sold for $425k! The Series 1 cars sold from $108k to $126k. This may be a good indicator how the modern CS produced cars are perceived. They are not really moving in the collector world. Having said that, I would love to have one day, especially one of the S/C cars. There were only 50 of the 249 built with the S/C option. The buy of the auction IMO was a 96 CS edition Viper. #2 of 19 sold for $51,700. I see room for this car down the road. Probably the most track ready Mustang 2012 Nationwide Biagi-DenBeste Mustang sold for $37,900. Imagine the fun you could have with that! Bottom-line, enjoy driving your cars and leave the #1 cars to the collectors. Anyone know who bought the 427 SuperSnake? I saw it went for $5,115,000. I think Ron paid $5.4m. Ouch! I don't think the SuperSnake met the reserve price. I think it was @ $4.7 mil and was not sold. Pratte bought it for $5 mil plus buyers fee so I wonder if his reserve was $5 mil?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelbymotorsports Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 I don't think the SuperSnake met the reserve price. I think it was @ $4.7 mil and was not sold. Pratte bought it for $5 mil plus buyers fee so I wonder if his reserve was $5 mil?? It didn't make reserve while on the auction stage but B-J announced a deal was struck soon after. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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