tko211 Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 So after 33k glorious miles my SGT was diagnosed with the famous lower control arm ball joint failures! This news comes 6 months after my V6 2006 pony mustang was diagnosed with the same issue. As I picked up the SGT from the dealership the car next to mine was a 2008 mustang. It was also in for... Lower control arm ball joint issues! Did some searches on the web and turns out this is VERY common. We should look forward to this issue on a regular basis. Mine were 900.00 to replace. Guess I'm good for another 25-35k miles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmor Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 At my current mileage / year, I will therefore experience this issue in 10 to 15 years from now. I'll start saving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.Marquez Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 So after 33k glorious miles my SGT was diagnosed with the famous lower control arm ball joint failures! This news comes 6 months after my V6 2006 pony mustang was diagnosed with the same issue. As I picked up the SGT from the dealership the car next to mine was a 2008 mustang. It was also in for... Lower control arm ball joint issues! Did some searches on the web and turns out this is VERY common. We should look forward to this issue on a regular basis. Mine were 900.00 to replace. Guess I'm good for another 25-35k miles? I have 105,000 mi on our 2005 S197 GT, lower ball joints are still tight. 16,200 mi on our 2007 GT500, lower ball joints are still tight. Both are lowered, have a stiffer suspension then stock, and are daily drivers..Driven on roads that are, well not pot hole filled, but lots of bumps, cracks, seams and an occasional hole... in other words they take a decent beating. I would think if there was a systemic issue it would have happened on one of mine Sucks your having issues, with yours... but in any case, I would not think they would wear out in 25k. Are your vehicles lowered? if so, consider some Steeda lower ball joints as a replacement next time..$157 a set http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-x5-ball-joint-for-ford-mustang.html Oh and WOW $900 for ball joint replacement? It would kill me to have to pay that much for the job.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tko211 Posted May 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 I was surprised well! I did some google searching just to see if it was me but on team Shelby even, I found several guys with the same issues and most were around 40k miles. (GT-h cars mostly if I remember). Mine is stock SGT setup. So I do have the ford racing suspension kit that Shelby installed. Wonder if that is causing early wear? I am going to check into the steeda ones you mentioned. There were other posts on general mustang forums that mentioned those as well when I did my search. My ford tech he sees this more and more on the S-197 cars and says " it's an issue". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 That's surprising to me because the lower ball joint is not the load carrying ball joint. Is it a problem with up/down play or side to side play ? I'm curious if the problem is due to not having the proper steering rack stops in for wider tires and the tire is hitting the swaybar thus trying to pry the ball joint out of the socket or something of the nature that the heat from the brakes is effecting the wear . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tko211 Posted May 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 You've got me... I'm not sure why this part would fail at anything under 100k +! But in my research everyone's story is about the same... Car goes in because there is a slight shimmy on the steering wheel at freeway speeds. Also there is irregular tire wear (usually on the inside tread wall). Everyone automatically assumes that the tires need to be rebalanced so they request so. Doesn't fix the problem nor does the next step, -alignment. That's when you get the news! Lower control arm ball joints! Just google control arm ball joint problem 2007 mustang or S197 mustang. Read the stuff that comes up and prepare to replace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tko211 Posted May 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 Here are some fun reads: http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/anyone-else-having-problems-with-lower-ball-joint-wear.804133/ http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/2005-2010-mustang-talk/210379-1-100-new-ball-joints.html http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/ball-joints-dealer-says-i-need-new-lowers.808361/ http://forums.themustangsource.com/f670/replace-lower-ball-joints-477592/ http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php/topic/67134-ball-joints-already/ http://mustangforums.com/forum/s197-handling-section/633834-lower-ball-joints-bad-replace-with-stock-control-arms-gt500-or-x5-bumpsteer-kit.html http://mustangcanada.com/forums/2005-2009-mustang/8125-ball-joint-replaced-48k.html http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/2005-2010-mustang-talk/218911-2006-mustang-gt-bad-ball-joints-uuggghhh.html http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/2005-2010-mustang-gt-tech/112780-2005-mustang-gt-failed-inspection-due-ball-joints.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tko211 Posted May 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 Reviewing the links I just posted I have noticed that people are also finding the issue when the car goes in for a safety inspection and they fail the car. This will be my case in August when my V6 daily driver needs inspection. (I plan to trade the car rather than replace anything). I won't trade in the Shelby regardless of the stupid and poorly engineered arms. Love the SGT too much... my V6 is a goner though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 Interesting reading (Yeah I read them all) Only 1 mentioned that it was side to side play that the ball joint had . Question are these people letting the suspension drop down when checking for free play ? Because that is not the proper position to check for play on a follower type ball joint with a McPherson strut - type front suspension. When inspecting a lower ball joint on our cars you need to have the vehicle on the ground or a drive on rack. Place a dial indicator on the lower arm (topside by the ball joint stud-but on the arm) . Take a block of wood and place it so you can take a long prybar and use the block as a lever and push up on the lower cap end of the ball joint ( the reading on the dial indicator should be less than .050" for axial movement ) In other words - if the BJ stud is locked into the spindle and the lower arm moves up/down .050" or more then it is BAD - also since it's a sealed unit if the BJ boot is torn they can also claim it to be BAD. The most difficult thing is to measure for side to side play - most shops (at least the good ones) will do what's called a Dry Park Test along with a BJ test and look for side to side movement from under the car while a second tech is holding the brake on and turning the steering wheel back and forth ( Engine running - grasp the steering wheel at 12 o'clock and move in a continuous movement back and forth from 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock position ) the tech under the car should not only be doing a visual but also a physical inspection by placing their hands at the rack boot to feel for play ( both up/down movement and end play )of the inner tie rod , around the outer tie rod ( same thing as inner ) at the ball joint/knuckle , etc... Here's the thing I'm picking up on in reading these posts - IF indeed Ford did use a rubber inpregnated or plastic lined lower ball joint - then HEAT from the front brakes are causing the density of the rubber/plastic liner to diminish and it is only a matter of (short) time that they will FAIL. Yes Ford did change the lower BJ stud diameter in mid 2010 I believe from an 18MM to a 19MM diameter and I do not know why. Maybe someone from Ford will cough up with the answer. Aftermarket lower BJ ( with longer studs )are on the market to buy primarily to address the Roll Center Problems ( suspension )that occur when lowering the suspension along with Bumpsteer kits ( steering ) for Toe Changes occuring in the Straight Ahead position. Some of these posts I questioned if the person was actually talking about the Rear hydro bushing on the front lower arm having (excessive ? ) play. Which I might add is a stupid place to put one so close to the Cats on the car but is necessary to make the car decent at best to handling road shock ( especially needed on the convertibles to prevent what is commonly refered to as cowl shudder). Yes back in the 70's Sears and Montgomery Wards were telling people that they had BAD ball joints when in fact they were good . It got sooo bad that the goverment got involved and the industry had to come up with guidelines to keep shops in line. Whenever a shop tells you that you have bad ball joints THEY have to have the measurements / reasons on why it is bad ( that's the law ). It does not have to be " legally " bad in order to cause a problem ( ie. SHIMMY ) and YES it sucks that Ford won't replace the ball joint by it's self but , that's FORD . Finally , if you do replace the complete lower control arm with an aftermarket one be aware that by eliminating the hydro bushing in the rear with a poly or delrin bushing you may cause bigger problems than what your dealing with now . Any time you replace a steering and/or suspension part you WILL need to get your car realigned or at a mininum checked . It's a shame to think that a ball joint ( especially a non-load carrying one ) doesn't last a minimum of 65,000 to 80,000 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tko211 Posted May 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Update: I got my SGT back from the Dealership. New control arms installed. I could tell a huge difference immediately as I drove her. Even at low speed the front end steering and feel through the steering wheel was much sharper and smooth as glass. Got it up to freeway speed on the highway and the minor shimmy was gone. I took a look at the old control arms and they showed me the difference compared to a new part and the amount of "Play" there was on the old joints. Glad it's done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL SHELBY Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 I had mine replaced at 25k on the clock. There is a TSB on the control arms. It's does not effect the GT500 as they came with beefier control arms/balljoints. The dealer I went to 1st attempted to blame the lowered stance of the SGT until I showed them a copy of the STB. Also, have your toe alignment checked. Shelby did not do an alignment on the SGT following the bolt on of the lowered springs. Mine had excessive toe out which killed my tires and could have contributed to the balljoint failure. Too much toe in either direction will cause the tire to literally skip down the road. The negative camber resulting from the lowered stance of the SGT should not be far enough out of spec to cause excessive wear on any parts, including the tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tko211 Posted May 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 I didn't think about the toe out alignment... I might want to do that too just to be safe. I've come this far- might as well have that checked and dialed in as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyBlueHeaven Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 I had mine replaced at 25k on the clock. There is a TSB on the control arms. It's does not effect the GT500 as they came with beefier control arms/balljoints. The dealer I went to 1st attempted to blame the lowered stance of the SGT until I showed them a copy of the STB. Also, have your toe alignment checked. Shelby did not do an alignment on the SGT following the bolt on of the lowered springs. Mine had excessive toe out which killed my tires and could have contributed to the balljoint failure. Too much toe in either direction will cause the tire to literally skip down the road. The negative camber resulting from the lowered stance of the SGT should not be far enough out of spec to cause excessive wear on any parts, including the tires. Mine had the same problem as EL SHELBY after reading his post i was under the car and noticed the same thing. Thankfully he posted his experience, I took it to a friend at the local ford dealership, printed out EL SHELBY's post and brought with me to show him. He threw it on the rack and said I have the same issue and fixed it. it seems fine now. But my original tires are pretty bad off on the inside edge. just went with new tire and rim set up since i was in the market for new tires anyway. I can't beleive Shelby didn't do an alignment after droping the car. Doesn't make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tko211 Posted May 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 I'm getting an alignment now for sure! My inside tread was also bad and I am due for new rubber so... better get it all done. Thanks for sharing guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Do you know if they upgraded you to the GT500 LCA units or just replaced with the same units. I'm just wondering what they are recommending in the TSB for preventing from happening again in 25,000 miles or do they expect you to sell the car by then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tko211 Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 I have not researched the TSB in detail enough to know what the recommend. My dealership didn't even mention the TSB but seemed quite familiar with the problem. When pushed on issue the answer I got was "let's just say that this is not our first Mustang we have seen with this problem... This week". I'm guessing that I have the Stock arms on the SGT again. I'm going to see how these go for me and meanwhile do some research on the ones that Shelby Performance offers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Let me get this straight - 33,000 miles - 2 Lower Control Arms=$$$ - Front Wheel Alignment=$ - 2 Front Tires=$$$ - Owning a Shelby GT=PRICELESS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL SHELBY Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Do you know if they upgraded you to the GT500 LCA units or just replaced with the same units. I'm just wondering what they are recommending in the TSB for preventing from happening again in 25,000 miles or do they expect you to sell the car by then ? The TSB does call for an upgraded control arm/ball joint. I do not know if it's the same as the GT500. Check the last post in SGT/Hertz TSB sticky: http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php/topic/43373-tsbs-of-interest/ And I was mistaken. This TSB does applie to the GT500 as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 OK,so looking at the TSB posts that you are refering to, the issue is with the hydro bushing not the lower ball joints. So if that is the case/issue why can't you try and make a heat shield around the hydro bushing to try and make it last longer ( assuming that heat from the cats is the source of the problem and the results is worn out bushings).tko211 and EL SHELBY did either of you get to see your old parts - was the stud in the lower ball joint loose and had play up/down or side to side . I understand it fixed your problem by replacing the lower arms but I'm curious to know BALL JOINT or HYDRO BUSHING being the affected part on the arm ? (Enquiring minds want to know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tko211 Posted May 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 I did get to see my old part. I'm not a mechanic so I might not fully understand what I was looking at but this is what I saw. The control arm was off the car. I was told that only a part of the arm was failing but required a complete arm assembly to replace due to it's construction. The part in question was a indeed a stud type bolt that protruded from a rubber joint that was circular and came from the arm framework. Picture an old Atari joystick (showing my age now) and you get the idea... Anyway I was told to wiggle the stud with my hand. It moved VERY freely and in all directions (like a wobbly Atari joystick). This is apparently NOT good! When shown the new part, I could barely move it at all with my hand. = VERY stiff. Don't know if this answers any questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 tko211 from what you are describing it was the lower ball joint itself - interesting because this is NOT the load carrying ball joint . The load carrying one is actually the upper strut mount bearing assembly. Question - have you ever had your car on a drive on rack and have a tech turn the steering to full lock in both directions to check for clearance/proper steering rack limiter bushings ? Just trying to find out why these parts would/will go bad in such a short time . Also did you keep your old parts ? If you did you might check to see if someone like MOOG Chassis Parts or another aftermarket manufacturer makes a replacement ball joint that is servicable/greasable to save money down the road . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL SHELBY Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 tko211 from what you are describing it was the lower ball joint itself - interesting because this is NOT the load carrying ball joint . The load carrying one is actually the upper strut mount bearing assembly. Question - have you ever had your car on a drive on rack and have a tech turn the steering to full lock in both directions to check for clearance/proper steering rack limiter bushings ? Just trying to find out why these parts would/will go bad in such a short time . Also did you keep your old parts ? If you did you might check to see if someone like MOOG Chassis Parts or another aftermarket manufacturer makes a replacement ball joint that is servicable/greasable to save money down the road . It was simply a poorly manufactured part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Well it's nice to have forums to help find out what " poorly manufactured parts " that I may encounter on either my 07 GT500 or 09 GT but , I like it even better when someone can help with a sollution to the problem ( I work hard for my money ) and if I can prevent it from reocccuring I don't mind giving it a try as long as I don't create new problems. I love my rides and don't plan on getting rid of either one for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tko211 Posted May 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 tko211 from what you are describing it was the lower ball joint itself - interesting because this is NOT the load carrying ball joint . The load carrying one is actually the upper strut mount bearing assembly. Question - have you ever had your car on a drive on rack and have a tech turn the steering to full lock in both directions to check for clearance/proper steering rack limiter bushings ? Just trying to find out why these parts would/will go bad in such a short time . Also did you keep your old parts ? If you did you might check to see if someone like MOOG Chassis Parts or another aftermarket manufacturer makes a replacement ball joint that is servicable/greasable to save money down the road . I have not had it on a rack and checked the right to left lock on the steering. I also didn't keep the old parts otherwise I would take some pics for all to see exactly what was going on. I am very surprised as well to learn that these parts seem to fail so quickly. I'm guessing that tracking the car 5-6 times has helped to speed the process up. My V6 is just a simple daily driver with 65k on the clock and it has the exact same issue. I am into my SGT for the long haul so I guess I will continue to pay to play. Im hoping that Shelby performance has a better upgrade solution that will not take away from the stance and feel of the stock SGT. Just want this part to last longer is all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tko211 Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 So I took other members advise and took it back into the dealership to double check the alignment and the "toe-out" of the front end. As I drove there on the freeway I noticed that there was indeed still a slight vibration at 80 mph. Long story short- The service tech came back and concluded that YES we did also need to do an alignment, I bought 4 new tires while I was there just to be sure and finally- IT IS FIXED. Alignment was 200, tires were another 1000. Not a cheap venture to get the Shelby sorted out again! But it does dive a lot better now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03 DSG Snake Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 I've seen the TSB, and have considered ordering the parts and doing it myself. So far so good however with plenty of freeway and track driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Oh brother, I also have the issues, and only after 10k miles. I went in to get an alignment and to slot out the lower strut mount for increased negative camber. The shop found one side was pretty bad, and the other was on its way also. What was going to be a $275 dollar procedure is now going to be 3 times as much. Oh well, bettter to find out at the shop and not a Solo or track Day. Maybe the recent tire upgrade to summer rubber and having autocrossed the car four times this summer has had something to do with it. Seems my spirited driving has cost me yet again, at least this time there were no blue lights involved. Time to restock the 'Fun Fund'. I'm frustrating but I guess thats the price of having TOO MUCH FUN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NordicShelby Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 On my o8 SGT vert I can hear a loud clunk when I apply the brakes. The sound is only on the drivers side and I hear it only once, if I let up on the brakes and drive some more and then reapply the brakes I will hear the same clunk. I have always assumed it was the Bear Pro Plus brakes and that the caliper is sticking. I was reading through this thread and started to think maybe its the lower ball joint. I called Steeda up and described what I hear and they said that they see alot of control arm bushings that go bad. He said they offer a complete kit for the control arm that includes the ball joints and bushings. The cost is $499 with free shipping. http://www.steeda.com/05-10-mustang-front-lower-control-arms-with-bushings-777-4902/ He said that its cheaper to have a mechanic replace the entire control arms than it is to replace the bushings. Did any of you have a clunk noise when applying the brakes? Has anybody installed this Steeda control arm assembly? If you have what do you think of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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