Whammer Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 http://www.autoblog.com/2011/10/06/gm-confirms-camaro-zl1-7-41-ring-lap-time-w-video/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whammer Posted October 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 Love it or hate it this is impressive. Top speed hit 172mph. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mhjGERugh0&feature=player_embedded#! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisSD Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 Forget the top speed, look at what cars it beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhlgt500 Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 Forget the top speed, look at what cars it beat. It is very impressive. But even given that we are bench racing, Autoblog's definition of "beat" is bit loose. The late model sports car competiton seems to get serious in the~7:20 range these days where the GT-R, LFA, ZR-1, Z06, and GT-? Porsches are playing. The slower times for the sports cars seem mainly to come from pre HP war models of the early 2000's. http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html As far as bench racing, the GT500 probably won't be close to the Camaro if they keep the speed limited to 155 MPH. Will be interesting to see if Ford ships the GT500 without a limit..... Or will that be a track key function and will CARB allow it? Competition is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL SHELBY Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 It is impressive. Unfortunitly it doesnt mean much in the real world. The Ring is a killer course and takes a well sorted ride to be quick, but most if not all of the elctronic stability and traction aids used by the ZL1 to achive this are not legal in Grand-Am and the vast majorty of the those who purchase the ZL1 will never see the benefit of those aids except for maybe when being stupid on public roads when it saves their azz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning Blue Star IV Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 Wow...what a car! That is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisSD Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 Yeah - crazy. The GT500 won't touch that time. MRC and the PTM on the ZL1 cannot be matched. Hopefully it can win in other areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whammer Posted October 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 Yeah - crazy. The GT500 won't touch that time. MRC and the PTM on the ZL1 cannot be matched. Hopefully it can win in other areas. Well I hope Ford is serious about battling the ZL1, otherwise the Camaro boys will be bashing the GT500 for the next several years. It's not about HP numbers this time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertlane Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 Ford and Shelby have been serious about the GT500 since the 2007 model year - and it has been improved year after year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Hamilton Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 Ford and Shelby have been serious about the GT500 since the 2007 model year - and it has been improved year after year. Times x 10, and it is difficult indeed but they do improve it every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisSD Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 Times x 10, and it is difficult indeed but they do improve it every year. They've done nothing effective towards traction other than throw a different compound tire on it, and they've done nothing towards suspension other than change the strut/spring package. The Camaro has a better chassis, period. Add that in with MRC and PTM and it is an animal. All it needed was HP and it got that too. Ford can't just increase displacement, add boost, and expect to compete with this thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisSD Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 The current GT500 would be lucky to crack 7:59 on that track. That's around what the CTS-V does and it is faster than a SVTPP 2012 GT500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whammer Posted October 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 Ford and Shelby have been serious about the GT500 since the 2007 model year - and it has been improved year after year. Times x 10, and it is difficult indeed but they do improve it every year. That still doesn't say anything about how the GT500 will address the ZL1. Minor tweaks are going to do nothing to combat the animal Chevy is unleashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhlgt500 Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 Comparing Chevy press releases and what amounts to an advertising video to Fords current car, some rumors, or some guess work as to what Ford might be willing to do really isn't possible. On a Mustang forum, glass half empty people end up picking Chevy as the winner, glass half full pick Ford. The good news is that all the leaks and rumors indicate the Ford is making a serious attempt to respond with a competitive upgrade to the current GT500; in 6 months or so we will be able to vote with our dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whammer Posted October 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 Comparing Chevy press releases and what amounts to an advertising video to Fords current car, some rumors, or some guess work as to what Ford might be willing to do really isn't possible. On a Mustang forum, glass half empty people end up picking Chevy as the winner, glass half full pick Ford. The good news is that all the leaks and rumors indicate the Ford is making a serious attempt to respond with a competitive upgrade to the current GT500; in 6 months or so we will be able to vote with our dollars. We'll know a lot sooner than that. The 2013 order banks open in Nov. Buy then we'll have a pretty good idea of what Ford thought would be enough for the GT500. Will it be? I don't know but I do know that EVERY car mag cannot wait to get both cars and run them head to head. It will either be Clash of the Titans or Tyson destroying Spinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT NAJA Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 We'll know a lot sooner than that. The 2013 order banks open in Nov. Buy then we'll have a pretty good idea of what Ford thought would be enough for the GT500. Will it be? I don't know but I do know that EVERY car mag cannot wait to get both cars and run them head to head. It will either be Clash of the Titans or Tyson destroying Spinks. Whammer, These future comparisons of stock vehicles are the only ones that will really count, because GM's run around the ring is most likely in a prepared (you might say a ringer ) ZL1... notwithstanding their claim it's an off the line production unit. I can't wait for the head to head showdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisSD Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 Whammer, These future comparisons of stock vehicles are the only ones that will really count, because GM's run around the ring is most likely in a prepared (you might say a ringer ) ZL1... notwithstanding their claim it's an off the line production unit. I can't wait for the head to head showdown. You can buy a ZR1 right now off the floor that will match Chevy's "ringer" times from last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Hamilton Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 If you're a Mustang fan, you'll continue to love Shelby's. If you're a Camaro fan you'll want the ZL1. Next year if Chevy offered the Camaro with 1000 hp and vertical takeoff capabilities I'd still pick the Shelby because I've always been a Mustang fan. I've been a Mustang/Shelby owner for years. It's not a flavor of the month car for me, it's a way of life. Buy what you want for whatever reasons you want but I'll continue to enjoy my Mustang /Shelby's till the day my driver's license expires due to my demise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whammer Posted October 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 If you're a Mustang fan, you'll continue to love Shelby's. If you're a Camaro fan you'll want the ZL1. Next year if Chevy offered the Camaro with 1000 hp and vertical takeoff capabilities I'd still pick the Shelby because I've always been a Mustang fan. I've been a Mustang/Shelby owner for years. It's not a flavor of the month car for me, it's a way of life. Buy what you want for whatever reasons you want but I'll continue to enjoy my Mustang /Shelby's till the day my driver's license expires due to my demise. That's fine. But don't let your opinion be a reason to let Ford off the hook. The ZL1 will do more to improve the GT500 than buying a GT500 will. I believe Ford has a great deal of pride in the Mustang and they don't want to put in a poor showing. Ford has done NOTHING to address the traction issues the GT500 has suffered from since 07. But now they finally have a real reason to do something about it. If they don't step up to the challenge they are going to get slaughtered in the auto mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REVENGE Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 I can't wait for the 2013 GT500. I can't wait to see what tweaks Ford made to the looks and performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whammer Posted October 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 I can't wait for the 2013 GT500. I can't wait to see what tweaks Ford made to the looks and performance. I truly hope it's more than just "tweaks". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL SHELBY Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 I'm really getting tired of the traction complaints. I don't know a single rear wheel drive vehicle that cost what the GT500 cost that can plant 300hp let alone 500hp from a standing start. You have to tack on $15-20k to the sticker before you start seeing the level of traction some seam to expect. IMO too many people complain about the cars abilities before acknowlagimg their own inabilities. I could be wrong, but before modern traction aids I don't recall anyone complaining about any car's traction issues. Seems to me people went out and learned how to drive. And for those who hate the wheel hop, the Camaro has the same problem with an independent rear. Ford has done wonders with the Mustang chassis and suspension while keeping it cost competitive. Chevy would not have the ZL1 if had not already invested in the Corvette's/Caddy development. Taking from the vette's parts bin is the only way Chevy could make the ZL1 cost viable. I find it amusing that it takes Corvette parts on a Camaro to be competitive with the Mustang. I wonder what the BOSS would do on the Ring? Does this mean Ford can sit idle? No way. Unfortunately Ford does not have a halo (if you can consider the vette such a car) car to leverage, and most likely never will. So we will have to wait until 2014 to see the next evolution of the Mustang and it's abilities on the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whammer Posted October 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 The traction issue with the GT500 has plagued it from the beginning. It didn't really bother me very much and I never had trouble making the car do what I wanted to do. But that doesn't mean I don't recognize that it's got traction problems. Those problems were minor when the competition was weak. But I think the ZL1 might've just changed the game. The traction and handling of the ZL1 is only going to make those problems on the GT500 ever more glaring. I do hope Ford was ready for this upcoming battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REVENGE Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 I'm really getting tired of the traction complaints. I don't know a single rear wheel drive vehicle that cost what the GT500 cost that can plant 300hp let alone 500ph from a standing start. You have to tack on $15-20k to the sticker before you start seeing the level of traction some seam to expect. IMO too many people complain about the cars abilities before acknowlagimg their own inabilities. I could be wrong, but before modern traction aids I don't recall anyone complaining about any car's traction issues. Seems to me people went out and learned how to drive. And for those who hate the wheel hop, the Camaro has the same problem with an independent rear. Ford has done wonders with the Mustang chassis and suspension while keeping it cost competitive. Chevy would not have the ZL1 if had not already invested in the Corvette's/Caddy development. Taking from the vette's parts bin is the only way Chevy could make the ZL1 cost viable. I find it amusing that it takes Corvette parts on a Camaro to be competitive with the Mustang. I wonder what the BOSS would do on the Ring? Does this mean Ford can sit idle? No way. Unfortunately Ford does not have a halo (if you can consider the vette such a car) car to leverage, and most likely never will. So we will have to wait until 2014 to see the next evolution of the Mustang and it's abilities on the track. Some people see having the Corvette as a disadvantage for GM. The reasoning is GM would not want to make the ZL1 too powerful because it would cut into the Corvette's terrirory. Without a car sitting above the GT500 Ford has a lot of room to improve it without having to worry about encroaching on the territory of another model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisSD Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 Some people see having the Corvette as a disadvantage for GM. The reasoning is GM would not want to make the ZL1 too powerful because it would cut into the Corvette's terrirory. Without a car sitting above the GT500 Ford has a lot of room to improve it without having to worry about encroaching on the territory of another model. The Z06 weighs 3150 lbs. The Camaro would need 750HP to cut into its territory in a straight line, and it will never touch it in the twisties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL SHELBY Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 Some people see having the Corvette as a disadvantage for GM. The reasoning is GM would not want to make the ZL1 too powerful because it would cut into the Corvette's terrirory. Without a car sitting above the GT500 Ford has a lot of room to improve it without having to worry about encroaching on the territory of another model. On it's own, I agree that the Vette is a finacial lability To GM. However, the excitement it generates for the brand and the sales that result from that excitement are hard to measure. GM in my opinion still has significant issues. Too many name plates and too many cars competing for the same sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyman Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 "Ring" times have become a common stat for evaluating performance vehicles. Not sure to what degree these times correlate with an actual street driving experience. Does a 10 or 15 second advantage on the "Ring" equate to anything that we would really feel on the street. I doubt that there are many of us who gear down from 150 mph to enter a 180 degree turn on the street. It is interesting to note that the new ZL1 posts a time nearly identical to that of a GT3 Porshce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whammer Posted October 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 "Ring" times have become a common stat for evaluating performance vehicles. Not sure to what degree these times correlate with an actual street driving experience. Does a 10 or 15 second advantage on the "Ring" equate to anything that we would really feel on the street. I doubt that there are many of us who gear down from 150 mph to enter a 180 degree turn on the street. It is interesting to note that the new ZL1 posts a time nearly identical to that of a GT3 Porshce. I think you could say the same of almost all the performance numbers and tests. Is anyone doing a 1G turn out on a city street? Could you tell the difference between a 1G car and a .93G car when turning at an intersection? Can you feel the difference in a car that runs a 4.3, 0-60 and one that runs a 4.1? In the end I think it's all just basically bragging rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 The traction issue with the GT500 has plagued it from the beginning. It didn't really bother me very much and I never had trouble making the car do what I wanted to do. But that doesn't mean I don't recognize that it's got traction problems. Those problems were minor when the competition was weak. But I think the ZL1 might've just changed the game. The traction and handling of the ZL1 is only going to make those problems on the GT500 ever more glaring. I do hope Ford was ready for this upcoming battle. Oh ye of little faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyman Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 The best single stat that can be looked at is 1/4 mile MPH. A car that traps 120 MPH is going to be way more fun to drive on the street than one that goes through at 110. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.