Coyote f/i

[LuckySnake]

How can SA use forced induction on a high compession engine and expect reliability with stock rods? Ford says the rods won't stand up to f/i. The topic has probably been beat to death but I haven't heard if the bottom end is being beefed up by SA.

 

Thx

[SGT0225]

How can SA use forced induction on a high compession engine and expect reliability with stock rods? Ford says the rods won't stand up to f/i. The topic has probably been beat to death but I haven't heard if the bottom end is being beefed up by SA.

 

Thx

 

 

I read somewhere that it CAN hold up to f/i. Just not much. ( 5 lbs maybe )

[LuckySnake]

I read somewhere that it CAN hold up to f/i. Just not much. ( 5 lbs maybe )

 

Seems like a good option would be a beefed up bottom end with f/i. I think I would rather have improved n/a intake and exhaust systems with a good tune, save on the extra weight of the SC and required components. If I had to have the SC I would want to be able crank up the boost allot more than 5 psi.

I haven't seen anything about testing on the forum, probably haven't looked close enough.

[sportscars]

Beefing up the bottom end would void the 50 state emissions certification that Shelby must maintain as a "manufacturer". It would then make their cars not legal for use on public roads in California.

 

The blower the Shelby is using was designed by Ford for use on the new Ford 5.0 engine. As stated previously, boost will be kept low and the engines will carry a factory warranty I believe.

 

Touching the internals of any engine is simply not EVER going to happen at Shelby.

[SGT/SC#0471]

So the competition who redid the bottom end in the 4.6's is clearly not a manufacturer then?

[sportscars]

So the competition who redid the bottom end in the 4.6's is clearly not a manufacturer then?

 

 

I believe that would be correct, although I am not sure who you are referring to, Roush?

 

BTW - Saleen is was a manufacturer.

[springer]

Good point Chris. Substituting forged internals for cast shouldn't change anything except to make for a stronger engine, especially if the CR (compression ratio) remains the same. I don't see how this could adversely affect or change the CARB or EPA certifications. It has been done in the past, as evidenced by the Saleen Extremes and some of the Roush cars.

 

Also, the new 5.0 is certainly capable of handling a few lbs of boost to crank out some extra ponies. Another 140 HP at the crank shouldn't be a problem for Whipple to get the 5.0 to push 550 HP at the crank.

[texaggie]

Roush changes the internals on the 4.6 on many applications. The first was the P51A, then the P51B, then the 2010 Stage 3, and the 2010 Hammer. All are 50 state legal and the 2010 models are also Gas guzzler exempt.

 

So, I do not see how SA would be incapable of changing internals because of fear of 50 state emissions loss. Now, do they want to do the research necessary to change internals and keep all the specs and increase the boost, only SA knows. Personally, I would hope that SA does all this, or works with the right people that do all the research, before they make any decisions on what their cars are going to become.

Also, I would bet that the low boost is probably accurate since they seem to be splitting the difference between th 5.0 and the GT500. I would bet that a low boost, improved CAI and exhaust along with a re-tune would yield those numbers pretty safely.

[ChrisSD]

Beefing up the bottom end would void the 50 state emissions certification that Shelby must maintain as a "manufacturer". It would then make their cars not legal for use on public roads in California.

 

 

 

 

Explain the Stage 3 Roush then, which is 50 state legal.

 

Explain the old Saleen Extreme.

[sportscars]

This is my understanding on this matter:

 

Roush is not considered to be a "manufacturer" by the government. They can change the internals on a car just like you can and not be held to a higher standard. Roush is no different than say Evolution Performance as far as that goes. They can change almost anything they want.

 

Saleen was a manufacturer. I can only guess that Saleen had their cars certified by the EPA/CARB. That is a lengthly and expensive process. May have been part of the reason they are not still around.

 

Shelby is a manufacturer, not a "tuner". Shelby would have to have the engine re-certified by both the EPA and CARB to meet emissions. I am sure that they could do it and I am also sure the engine would pass, but it would be costly and time consuming. You would also loose the factory Ford warranty and either have no warranty or Shelby would have to warranty the engine. I would think that neither of those options looks good to Shelby from a monetary standpoint.

 

The GT350, being post-title, is not being "manufactured" by Shelby - however their status as a manufacturer still dictates what they can and cant do with a car.

[kahmann]

^Doesn't Roush sell pre-title cars? The P-51's are much more extensive builds than anything SA has released in a long time. How could Roush not be considered a manufacturer when Shelby is?

 

IMO, this comes down to cost, labor, cost, expertise, cost, liability, and cost.

[EL SHELBY]

There is a recent artical in Mustang Monthly quotes Amy stating that Mr. Shelby is expecting 600 ponies from the GT350. I don't see how they cannot crack open the block to make this happen, but then I didn't design the new 5.0. Maybe Ford is holding on to some tidbit of info.

 

http://www.mustangmonthly.com/featuredvehicles/mump_1003_2011_shelby_gt350/index.html

[tony356]

There is a recent artical in Mustang Monthly quotes Amy stating that Mr. Shelby is expecting 600 ponies from the GT350. I don't see how they cannot crack open the block to make this happen, but then I didn't design the new 5.0. Maybe Ford is holding on to some tidbit of info.

 

http://www.mustangmonthly.com/featuredvehicles/mump_1003_2011_shelby_gt350/index.html

 

Thanks El Shelby for the link. I missed that article.

[MMcGuirk]

At the NASCAR race I asked Jim Bell about supercharging an 11 to 1 CR Coyote motor. He said that he has been doing it reliably for years - late model small block Chevys - without issue. He thinks the Ford Racing guys that come up with FRPP tunes are first rate and believes the car will be absolutely reliable with 5 to 7lbs of boost.

 

Based on what the naturally aspirated Coyote is putting to the rear wheels in multiple tests and 5lbs of boost, we should get a 485 to 500 rwhp car. That's just like my Whippled 3V in my LL car. ( 12.5lbs, 10 to 1 CR, 35K miles - no issues) I will be very happy with that.

[Torch40]

At the NASCAR race I asked Jim Bell about supercharging an 11 to 1 CR Coyote motor. He said that he has been doing it reliably for years - late model small block Chevys - without issue. He thinks the Ford Racing guys that come up with FRPP tunes are first rate and believes the car will be absolutely reliable with 5 to 7lbs of boost.

 

Based on what the naturally aspirated Coyote is putting to the rear wheels in multiple tests and 5lbs of boost, we should get a 485 to 500 rwhp car. That's just like my Whippled 3V in my LL car. ( 12.5lbs, 10 to 1 CR, 35K miles - no issues) I will be very happy with that.

 

 

What do those Bozos at Ford know? They've only been building cars for 100 years.