Ripthedealeroff Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 BRAVO! Ford's executive committe is totaly incompetent. Once you understand this everything else falls into place. They are in junk bond status. I've lost more on their stock than any ADM. As a shareholder I plan on voting for the removal of everyone! They do have a responsibility and liability to their shareholders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtcobra Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 At the SAAC convention in Michigan, Ford executives announced that the GT 500 would be built and everyone who wanted one would be able to order one. They stated in no uncertain terms that they would build as many as the demand for them warranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Ford's executive committe is totaly incompetent. Once you understand this everything else falls into place. They are in junk bond status. I've lost more on their stock than any ADM. As a shareholder I plan on voting for the removal of everyone! They do have a responsibility and liability to their shareholders. I certainly can't argue with this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 I could care less how many they build. The more built & on the street is a win/ win for anybody who bought one to drive in terms of Factory & aftermarket support. I liked the car as soon as it was displayed at Carlisle & started saving for it. Horsepower & styling sold it for me !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68KR07Shelby Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 I could care less how many they build. The more built & on the street is a win/ win for anybody who bought one to drive in terms of Factory & aftermarket support. I liked the car as soon as it was displayed at Carlisle & started saving for it. Horsepower & styling sold it for me !! I just drove mine home from the National meet in Utah to Michigan and never saw another GT500 or Shelby anywhere for 1700 miles. They are not common. average of 200 per state and some states will be more or less than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 At the SAAC convention in Michigan, Ford executives announced that the GT 500 would be built and everyone who wanted one would be able to order one. They stated in no uncertain terms that they would build as many as the demand for them warranted. I agree...totally. ...unfortunately even that statement is open to interpretation (is it just based on pending orders? etc), i.e. how do they judge "everyone who wanted one." But I agree that is the strongest statement made to convey that the overall supply is not being constrained artificially (even tho suppliers, like Tremec, amd CAFE may dictate how many per year). Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 By telling the public and the dealers only two years and a limited production with intent of doing another year without saying anything, they created a false market with this. Just my opinion. ShelbyDude, I very much enjoy your well thought out points. Clearly we have different opinions on this, but the above statement seems to crystalize the difference. I don't think they were hiding anything... at the time they probably had no firm plans for a third year. They may still have no plans for a third year. What would they say about a third (or 4th or 5th) year if there are no plans at the time they commented on '07 and '08 plans? They can't say we have no plan to for '09 because that implies they won't do '09 (for which they clearly would not want to cut off the option). And talking about plans for the Camaro/Chal years would be crazy, imo. As enthusiasts we tend to read so much more into these general planning statements -- some will view them as commitments, some won't. I don't, but everyone will view it a little different. I just don't see how any such planning statements are binding in any way. I think you have a good idea to put up a poll to see if the existance or not of a 3rd year would have affected what folks paid up front. Could be interesting for sure. But even if no one would have paid an AND if there were a 3rd year, that would be the individual's perogative. If you had to have it NOW, you paid ADM -- that's cool. Who in here who had to have an early '07 would still have paid what they did to get it early on if there will be an '09? Probably most all. But it would be interesting to see what your idea of a poll will show. Clearly it hasn't affected me -- I don't do ADMs ...I appreciate the reasons for those who have. As far as your question on why a reduced '08, I have no clue. I can see some reasons, like Romeo niche may be doing other SVT engines in '08 we don't yet know about or maybe Tremec TR6060s will be going into and SVT F150 'lightning' (it's going in the new Vette and Viper too). There could be a dozen reasons for a bit less '08 that could all be independent of if an '09 GT500 is/isn't done. Sure hope we find out soon, but doubt we will. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mach1fever Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 The other thing to remember is at the time they were still planning an 09 being the reskin year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S7MS Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 I have read the various posts on 3rd year/no 3rd year Shelby and conclude that this topic is really about sour grapes over high ADM's and whether Ford could be actionable for misleading the buying public. If you don't believe the whole point of the GT500 hype was to cynically stick it to the Shelby/Ford faithful then take a look at what the man himself says in the latest issue of CAR&DRIVER. When asked why I GT500KR was needed, Ol' Shel volunteers that the car is a gift to the dealers to pad their bottom line with big ADM's! By the way, the '09 is supposed to have new front/rear facias/fenders to freshen it up. If Ford were to continue to produce the GT500 they would either have to retool all the GT500 parts to fit the new bodywork or continue using the old tooling. Neither seems likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srk1959 Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 I have read the various posts on 3rd year/no 3rd year Shelby and conclude that this topic is really about sour grapes over high ADM's and whether Ford could be actionable for misleading the buying public. If you don't believe the whole point of the GT500 hype was to cynically stick it to the Shelby/Ford faithful then take a look at what the man himself says in the latest issue of CAR&DRIVER. When asked why I GT500KR was needed, Ol' Shel volunteers that the car is a gift to the dealers to pad their bottom line with big ADM's! By the way, the '09 is supposed to have new front/rear facias/fenders to freshen it up. If Ford were to continue to produce the GT500 they would either have to retool all the GT500 parts to fit the new bodywork or continue using the old tooling. Neither seems likely. I don't post much but would just like to say that even with the ADM which I wish wasn't there these Shelby's are one hell of a deal, in real world terms they are not that out there on price. I just sold a Hemi clone Challenger convertible for 90k. Guess what I don't regret it one bit, my 07 Shelby convertible stock doesn't have near the power my 604 cid Challenger had but it is a better car in every respect. I like the Shelby so much I bought an 07 coupe to go with the convertible. I sold a 72 Hemi Roadrunner ( not original either) and that paid for my coupe. Now from this perspective I have sold 2 cars that I built that were not as comfortable, or handled as well, to purchase 2 cars (Gt500's) that I really enjoy and as far as hp can be taken to the level of my Hemi's with very minor mods. So from my point of view even with the approximate ADM's of 11k on each I am still way ahead $$$ wise, and I have a warranty as well. It bothers me that the dealers are making that extra money as well but I feel Ford priced the car below what it truly was worth so it kinda comes out as a wash.......just my opinion....I love my Shelby's and at 47 they will probably be the last muscle cars I buy......enjoy them...because I am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 I don't think they were hiding anything... at the time they probably had no firm plans for a third year. They may still have no plans for a third year. What would they say about a third (or 4th or 5th) year if there are no plans at the time they commented on '07 and '08 plans? They can't say we have no plan to for '09 because that implies they won't do '09 (for which they clearly would not want to cut off the option). And talking about plans for the Camaro/Chal years would be crazy, imo. Dan, This is my ponit. They DID imply no plan for 09. Announcing to the public at the auto show saying this will be a limited production for two years and only approx 8K for each year.....that would imply no future years beyond that. How is that any different than saying no plan for 09? And btw, they DID specifically say no plan for 09 and specifically said no 09. This was said by regional management passed down through zone reps passed down to dealers. So they can't say we have no plans for 09 because that implies they won't do 09......but saying limited production for two years with approx 8K each year doesn't imply no 09???? Specifically telling dealers NO 09 doesn't imply no 09? Telling dealers this knowing this is what the dealers will relay back to consumers doesn't imply no 09? I personally specifically asked if they will do 09 and I was told no! By both Ford and SVT! I was told several times no 09 throughout the year. Now does that obligate them to not do 09? Of course not. But it does send out misleading and incorrect information to the public. They didn't say we don't know, or it hasn't been decided yet, or maybe, or it is possible, or anything. They specifically said no! If you are specifically telling your dealers no 09 when they are fully aware that their dealers will tell that to their customers then they are responsible for creating a false market on this if an 09 would have a big impact on the market value of these cars. If they did know or didn't know because they will wait to see how the market holds out or whatever reason, then don't tell everyone no. Say you don't know, or it hasn't been determined yet, or whatever. But don't say no and have dealers relaying that to consumers and then do it anyway. If they do build it for 09 do you think they knew or were at least considering it before now? Do you think they knew from the beginning of this year? I asked again today and I was told no again just today. But they did say they will look into it and ask around to be sure and let me know if anything has changed. When I asked about this back in Feb I was told no 09. They said 08 is it and 09 is going to be the Boss. I asked today if that changed and if the Boss is being pushed back to 2010 or if it is still on for 09. They had not heard anything more about it so they didn't know. Sooner or later we will know for sure and regardless of what they decide there is nothing we can do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 I want to know how many Grabber Orange Coupes were made. Just curious to see the numbers. I welcome another Mustang comeback for 2009 and hope that 2008 is it for the GT500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 I want to know how many Grabber Orange Coupes were made. Just curious to see the numbers. I welcome another Mustang comeback for 2009 and hope that 2008 is it for the GT500. Me too! Hopefully it will be a Boss or if that is being pushed back then the Mach 1 for 09 or even a Shelby GT350 would work. If the Boss comes out or whenever it does come out I hope it looks just like this and comes in this color! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Me too! Hopefully it will be a Boss or if that is being pushed back then the Mach 1 for 09 or even a Shelby GT350 would work. If the Boss comes out or whenever it does come out I hope it looks just like this and comes in this color! That Grabber Green is awesome! :happy feet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 That Grabber Green is awesome! :happy feet: I wonder if it would glow as much as the grabber orange does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shel-b001 Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 I don't post much but would just like to say that even with the ADM which I wish wasn't there these Shelby's are one hell of a deal, in real world terms they are not that out there on price. I just sold a Hemi clone Challenger convertible for 90k. Guess what I don't regret it one bit, my 07 Shelby convertible stock doesn't have near the power my 604 cid Challenger had but it is a better car in every respect. I like the Shelby so much I bought an 07 coupe to go with the convertible. I sold a 72 Hemi Roadrunner ( not original either) and that paid for my coupe. Now from this perspective I have sold 2 cars that I built that were not as comfortable, or handled as well, to purchase 2 cars (Gt500's) that I really enjoy and as far as hp can be taken to the level of my Hemi's with very minor mods. So from my point of view even with the approximate ADM's of 11k on each I am still way ahead $$$ wise, and I have a warranty as well. It bothers me that the dealers are making that extra money as well but I feel Ford priced the car below what it truly was worth so it kinda comes out as a wash.......just my opinion....I love my Shelby's and at 47 they will probably be the last muscle cars I buy......enjoy them...because I am +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shel-b001 Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Me too! Hopefully it will be a Boss or if that is being pushed back then the Mach 1 for 09 or even a Shelby GT350 would work. If the Boss comes out or whenever it does come out I hope it looks just like this and comes in this color! Cool colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mach1fever Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Shelbydude, I am going to try another source I have who is an f150 engineer and see if can independantly verify what I was told. S7, you must have missed my last post. Re-skin will be in 2009 as a 2010 my. Boss is based off of the new reskin. It is a possibility that they might do a quick mach, but I don't see it for one year (and it would cost too much). Shelbydude thanks for giving the dealers perspective. I still believe my source but we will see. I am just happy to have you as a source. For me it would be great, because it would viritually guaruntee my getting one for the price I want. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 I have read the various posts on 3rd year/no 3rd year Shelby and conclude that this topic is really about sour grapes over high ADM's and whether Ford could be actionable for misleading the buying public. If you don't believe the whole point of the GT500 hype was to cynically stick it to the Shelby/Ford faithful then take a look at what the man himself says in the latest issue of CAR&DRIVER. When asked why I GT500KR was needed, Ol' Shel volunteers that the car is a gift to the dealers to pad their bottom line with big ADM's! By the way, the '09 is supposed to have new front/rear facias/fenders to freshen it up. If Ford were to continue to produce the GT500 they would either have to retool all the GT500 parts to fit the new bodywork or continue using the old tooling. Neither seems likely. Don't you just assume if it was in that rag it's inaccurate or slanted against Ford? So CS supposedly said to C&D that the KR is to a gift to pad the dealer's pockets? Really?! Or a convenient C&D misquote? or taken out of context? or ???? Good thing this is your first post <lol> -- we have a rule not to rag on newbees untill 10 postes, so WELCOME to SU, S7MS I think Ford is intentionally keeping the refresh date a 'moving' target -- like MX missles of the cold-war era ...but I agree if the change is MY'09 (as opposed to June '09 as an MY'10) that means refreshed skin in 11 months!!! Could be... dunno ;-) I don't think there's a lot of retooling if just a refresh, but sure hope it's provisioned for an H/Boss motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Dan, This is my ponit. They DID imply no plan for 09. Announcing to the public at the auto show saying this will be a limited production for two years and only approx 8K for each year.....that would imply no future years beyond that. How is that any different than saying no plan for 09? And btw, they DID specifically say no plan for 09 and specifically said no 09. This was said by regional management passed down through zone reps passed down to dealers. So they can't say we have no plans for 09 because that implies they won't do 09......but saying limited production for two years with approx 8K each year doesn't imply no 09???? Yes, it doesn't ...to my mind a manufacturer saying '07 and '08 limited production means just that. Implies nothing about '09. When Hilliary Clinton said regularly for two years she has no plan to run for president and is focussing on her job as NYS senator which she loves, that doesn't mean she isn't intending to run for president! It just means at that point in time she has no official plan to run for president (and is choosing not to have a formal plan yet). But Ford saying limited production of 9K in '07, 8K in '08 in no way precludes '09, imo. Even saying they have no plan to produce the GT500 on '09 (which I'm not saying they said) would not preclude doing so. It just means at that point in time the plan of record does not show an '09 -- 1 or 2 or 6 months later, in the next planning cycle, it might. That's the way corporate communicatins are managed in my experience -- I think they have no realistic choice but to do things that way. Of course, they may have decided to do one or not, but I suspect the plan of record will not change until they feel they have to go one way or the other and may choose to string that out as long as possible to minimize internal plan leakage. I suspect it's a given that they have well-worked 'plans' to go both ways, but which is the current plan of record I don't know, and even if the plan of record already reflects an '09 GT500, they have no obligation to update any public statements in advance. However, if they DO update their statement, it had better reflect the plan of record at that point in time (which can change again next update cycle with no obligation to disclose one word of it either way until they're ready to do so). Just how I've seen corporate America necessarily functioning for many years now because they can't risk doing otherwise. I have no inside info on Ford on this specific '09 issue. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripthedealeroff Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 You can bet that Ford is paying Mr. Shelby a big hunk of change for every Shelby name plate that goes on a Mustang. The history of Ford and Shelby also includes the not so nice legal battles from the first ventures. You can bet Mr. Shelby has great lawyers and multiple contracts stating limited terms and conditions that will prohibit Ford from making unilateral decision about the number of Mustangs that can be produced with the Shelby name. Yes, in fact what I heard from a reliable legal source was that Ford was going to produce the 40th Anniversary Shelby GT-500 without Mr. Shelby. He got an injunction and sued Ford, thus this new love/hate relationship with Ford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Yes, in fact what I heard from a reliable legal source was that Ford was going to produce the 40th Anniversary Shelby GT-500 without Mr. Shelby. He got an injunction and sued Ford, thus this new love/hate relationship with Ford. Ya right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500FLYBOY Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Ya right! Is that sarcasm? Need some clarity - did this happen or not to the best of our collective knowledge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500FLYBOY Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Yes, it doesn't ...to my mind a manufacturer saying '07 and '08 limited production means just that. Implies nothing about '09. When Hilliary Clinton said regularly for two years she has no plan to run for president and is focussing on her job as NYS senator which she loves, that doesn't mean she isn't intending to run for president! It just means at that point in time she has no official plan to run for president (and is choosing not to have a formal plan yet). But Ford saying limited production of 9K in '07, 8K in '08 in no way precludes '09, imo. Even saying they have no plan to produce the GT500 on '09 (which I'm not saying they said) would not preclude doing so. It just means at that point in time the plan of record does not show an '09 -- 1 or 2 or 6 months later, in the next planning cycle, it might. That's the way corporate communicatins are managed in my experience -- I think they have no realistic choice but to do things that way. Of course, they may have decided to do one or not, but I suspect the plan of record will not change until they feel they have to go one way or the other and may choose to string that out as long as possible to minimize internal plan leakage. I suspect it's a given that they have well-worked 'plans' to go both ways, but which is the current plan of record I don't know, and even if the plan of record already reflects an '09 GT500, they have no obligation to update any public statements in advance. However, if they DO update their statement, it had better reflect the plan of record at that point in time (which can change again next update cycle with no obligation to disclose one word of it either way until they're ready to do so). Just how I've seen corporate America necessarily functioning for many years now because they can't risk doing otherwise. I have no inside info on Ford on this specific '09 issue. Dan Anyone have an idea what Ford has been saying to Wall Street? That would be the only really reliable source as to their plans for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe G Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 I could wet myself. :happy feet: Can it just be a wet computer instead?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Is that sarcasm? Need some clarity - did this happen or not to the best of our collective knowledge? I think its analygous to the moon landings wich never happened and were actually filmed in Arizona <Oops, that's more sarcasm... ;-) > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedRacer Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 Since this is a thread on 2007 GT500 Production Numbers (not Boss Mustang, ADMs, Shelby's relationship with Ford, etc.), do we have any update on production Numbers? Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 Since this is a thread on 2007 GT500 Production Numbers (not Boss Mustang, ADMs, Shelby's relationship with Ford, etc.), do we have any update on production Numbers? Stuart bump. ...yeah, what Stuart said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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