Jeff Bellune Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 Hi All, First-time poster. Found some really good info by lurking prior to purchasing my new GT350 -- thank you everyone for being willing to share your knowledge and insight! I have a black 2017 Shelby GT350 that came from the factory with bubbles in the clearcoat on the hood, and swirl marks all over from the original dealer running it through their automatic car wash. (My dealer traded a 2017 Raptor to the original dealer for the Shelby so I could have the color I wanted.) Ford is paying to repaint the hood, and my dealer's body shop will try to polish out the swirl marks. The body shop does a lot of custom work for customers as well as some local dealerships, so I'm hopeful they will do a good job. My question: how much will the loss of the factory paint job on the hood affect the collectible or resale value of the car, assuming they do a good job with OEM paint and match the black color of the rest of the car? It's a real kick in the gut to finally get a brand-new Shelby, only to have serious appearance issues. Thanks, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargntmoon Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 Did you go through with the deal/complete the purchase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Bellune Posted September 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 Yes, I did. I found the flaws after getting the car home and seeing it under direct lighting in my garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twobjshelbys Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 Black paint is really hard to deal with. Swirl marks and micro scratches are a way of life. Both of my black Shelby GTs suffered from them over time. Any competent detailer should be able to take care of it. Repainting the hood under warranty should be no issue. It's hard to make a case that with them built in the numbers that the GT350 has any short-term collectability and in 50 years noone will care if the hood was repainted under warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Bellune Posted September 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 Repainting the hood under warranty should be no issue. It's hard to make a case that with them built in the numbers that the GT350 has any short-term collectability and in 50 years noone will care if the hood was repainted under warranty. Thanks for that info. Is that the consensus -- that the 2017 GT350 has virtually no short-term collectability and in the long-term, no one cares if the vehicle is repainted or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Rodgers Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 I do not see collectability in the short term at all, I personally do not see it long term either. Muscle cars are doing well now, but look at the age of the buyers of both the New ones and the Classics, I would bet the majority are over 40 or even 50 years old. I see very limited interest in cars from the young crowd, those that have interest are mostly into the Rice Burners. I do not see demand for Muscle cars going up, the older the Muscle Car generation gets the lower the demand will be. Just my 2 cents. That said I would be furious, BUT I would blame myself just as much or more so then the dealer, how do you not notice this in the paint prior to making the purchase (Maybe you did all of the paperwork sight unseen?)? I would have refused the car. Sounds like it is too late for that and they are working with you, could be a great opportunity to get Painted Stripes, if they throw that in that is a BIG win in my opinion. Personally I would care from a resale standpoint, take pictures and document it. If I had a choice between one repainted and one not, I am picking the one not all day long, I would expect to pay less for the repainted one. I think that is the norm in the industry. Good luck regardless, the GT350 is one hell of a car!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabberlicious Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 I would agree regarding short-term valuation. Also agree that 20 years on, that detail will be trivial in the residual value of the vehicle. These are still production cars, albeit limited production. A good finish guy can make swirl marks disappear with the right tools/products and techniques. Today's advanced finish products are wonderful compared to just a few years back. Let not your heart be troubled. Make it pretty and enjoy your GT350. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twobjshelbys Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 Note also that since you are having the work done at/by the Ford dealer under warranty that the repairs will be recorded in the OASIS history of the vehicle. That would be enough to prove the background of the timing of the repair relative to delivery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Bellune Posted September 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 look at the age of the buyers of both the New ones and the Classics, I would bet the majority are over 40 or even 50 years old. I see very limited interest in cars from the young crowd how do you not notice this in the paint prior to making the purchase (Maybe you did all of the paperwork sight unseen?)? Personally I would care from a resale standpoint, take pictures and document it. If I had a choice between one repainted and one not, I am picking the one not all day long, I would expect to pay less for the repainted one Good luck regardless, the GT350 is one hell of a car!!!! The GT350 is my 60th birthday present! So your muscle car vs. age theory gets another supporting data point. The car was shipped from an out-of-state dealer to my local dealer after I agreed to purchase it. (That's another long story.) I took delivery of the car at sunset on the same day it arrived locally and after it was prepped. It looked really good in the fading light! No way to see the paint flaws then with my tired old eyes. I expect most buyers would want one with the factory paint, hence my concern about repainting the hood. I'm glad it's not just me thinking that way. Thanks for the well-wishes. The car performs beyond my expectations. I just wish the paint looked better! I would agree regarding short-term valuation. Also agree that 20 years on, that detail will be trivial in the residual value of the vehicle. These are still production cars, albeit limited production. A good finish guy can make swirl marks disappear with the right tools/products and techniques. Today's advanced finish products are wonderful compared to just a few years back. Let not your heart be troubled. Make it pretty and enjoy your GT350. That's good advice. I will make it pretty, enjoy the heck out of it, and cross any resale bridges when/if I come to them. My son has already said he wants the car when I'm too old to drive it any more. And once I fire up the engine, the sound of that exhaust pretty much makes me forget about everything else for a little while. Note also that since you are having the work done at/by the Ford dealer under warranty that the repairs will be recorded in the OASIS history of the vehicle. That would be enough to prove the background of the timing of the repair relative to delivery. Good to know. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargntmoon Posted September 9, 2017 Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 I agree with the aspect of having the stripes painted as being a great option. Mine is all original and I'm considering having the stripes removed and painted back due to the fact the factory crap is terrible. As for the collectible consideration, I'd just enjoy it. I'm 62. I bought an 09 with 14,000 miles last year. I'm not going to sell it, I'm gonna drive it! My grandson can have it when I can't drive it anymore. May be at 20,000 miles or maybe at 200,000 miles. Regardless, with every penny. I may grimace climbing into it, but I smile like a cheshire cat driving it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shel-b001 Posted September 9, 2017 Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 I would say Carnut12 said all . Just go out & enjoy your new car .I`am sure with the hood painted & swirls removed you will be happy with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAI-Steven Posted September 9, 2017 Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 Thought I would toss this out there, thousands of brand new cars have some sort of repaint work on them that many buyers have no knowledge of. From paint damage at the assembly plant, to paint damage that occurs in transport to the dealership, all the way to paint damage happening at the dealership, paint repair happens all the time. The cars are repaired with the buyer being no wiser. Back during the SGT and KR days Shelby American would receive base cars from Ford that had paint damage. Once these cars had their paint issues corrected we would then complete the build and ship the completed car to the selling dealership. Do you think the buyer of the car had any clue that part of their car was repainted? Nope they sure didn't unless they were in the paint business and could see the tell tale clues. I can't recall off the top of my head what percentage of the car needs repainting before the purchaser must be told but that percentage is easily over 50% which is why many buyers will never know their car had paint issues. Back in the 1990's I was working for a well known German auto manufacturer who shipped a batch of black pained cars to the States that all had foreign "carp" in the paint job with the only solution being to strip the cars and repaint them. Because the complete repainting of the cars would require that the buyer be notified that the car had been repainted due to a bad paint job the "suits" came up with the idea that we would repaint these cars with a slightly different shade of black and here's the best part, we would add the repaint to the Monroney label as a special edition paint upgrade. Now that's how you make lemonade, make the buyer pay for a repaint and have them think they are paying for an upgraded paint job. So the point I'm trying to make is that many of us already have cars with paint work that we just don't know about and while I understand the OP's concern, its just best to accept it as for what it is and go drive the car. I'm confident the OP wont be thinking about hood paint while that Coyote motor is singing to him on the road. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSGT Posted September 11, 2017 Report Share Posted September 11, 2017 Just remember, Black is not a color, it's a career! Forget about everything else and just go enjoy it. If someone else enjoys it later on, so much the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug_GT350 Posted September 11, 2017 Report Share Posted September 11, 2017 After a couple miles of driving the hood will probably have some stone chips and what not and have to repainted ennywho.... just enjoy the car!!! Like Steven said you'll never see the hood while listening to that sweet sound out the back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Bellune Posted September 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 Thanks for all the info, everyone! NB: this is an all-black car -- no stripe. Update: I got the car back from the dealer's body shop yesterday. It was raining -- has been since Irma passed through. Dealer said he didn't want to sign off on the job being completed until he could see it in direct sunlight (he said his shop lighting wasn't good enough). Old hood paint had almost zero orange peel. New paint has orange peel that matches the peel on the fenders. I can only hope that was done on purpose? Clear coat bubbles are gone. Hooray! Old swirl marks in random places on hood looked like paint brush strokes. I figured they were put there by one of those fabric-strip-hanging-thingies that some automatic car washes use instead of rotary brushes. New paint has so many circular swirl marks in it that my wife, who couldn't see the old marks, took one look at it under my garage fluorescent lights and said, "how did it get all these little scratches?". I give up. The dealer has had the car for a full week and this is the result. I guess I expected better at this price point. From what y'all have said, things don't necessarily get better the more you pay for a car. That's sad. This car isn't a show car, it's my daily driver. So as I collect chips in the paint and dents in the door, I'll care less and less about this. It's just that this whole experience has sucked a lot of the "happy" out of getting my new toy. It may be time for some VooDoo Coyote therapy! Cheers, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Bellune Posted September 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 I had to post separately to acknowledge the line, "Black is not a color, it's a career!" Best laugh I've had in days! Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug_GT350 Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 I had to post separately to acknowledge the line, "Black is not a color, it's a career!" Best laugh I've had in days! Jeff I agree.... I always tell people Black is an occupation.... but same thing. I would think fluorescent lights in a closed garage would show more imperfections than one could see in bright sun but that's just my opinion. Either way good luck, a nice first to second shift and the swirl marks go away.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAI-Steven Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 . I give up. The dealer has had the car for a full week and this is the result. I guess I expected better at this price point. From what y'all have said, things don't necessarily get better the more you pay for a car. That's sad. Jeff, I do have sympathy for your situation and like your first door ding your eyes will always be drawn to your hood issues. It's unfortunate but dealerships don't always have the best body shop workers, why would a good painter work for dealership wages when they could be making so much more at a custom paint shop. Dealership body shops are more connected to insurance repairs where the owner doesn't care about details. Depending how thick the dealership laid down the clearcoat you may want to consult with a quality bodyshop if there is enough paint materiel for a cut & buff but if you're saying the fenders also have orange peel maybe a high gloss hood would look out of place. All the best with your Voodoo therapy, multiple therapy sessions should get you over this hump. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hawkins Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 Jeff, I do have sympathy for your situation and like your first door ding your eyes will always be drawn to your hood issues. It's unfortunate but dealerships don't always have the best body shop workers, why would a good painter work for dealership wages when they could be making so much more at a custom paint shop. Dealership body shops are more connected to insurance repairs where the owner doesn't care about details. Depending how thick the dealership laid down the clearcoat you may want to consult with a quality bodyshop if there is enough paint materiel for a cut & buff but if you're saying the fenders also have orange peel maybe a high gloss hood would look out of place. All the best with your Voodoo therapy, multiple therapy sessions should get you over this hump. Steve The Orange Peel on the Fenders might be from Blending so there might be enough Clear on the Fenders to do a Blended Cut & Buff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Rodgers Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 I was afraid of this, Dealers never have the quality skills of really good independent detail shops. I recommend finding a quality detail shop and having the dealership compensate. Could just be me, but I would rather sell the car then deal with looking at those swirls every day. That's one reason I will never own a black car again. Good luck, sorry to hear about your troubles, it's wrong. You probably paid MSRP too, that makes it even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Bellune Posted September 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 Thanks for all the advice. My local detailer (whose work I have seen) says he can get the light swirls out but the deeper scratches, no. Fortunately there aren't many of those. He will also get out the few remaining light scratches over the rest of the body. $150. Six hours. Job done. I won't expect perfect, but it will make it pretty enough for me to enjoy driving it even more. The dealer actually did a very good job removing the "paint brush" swirls everywhere except the hood. I don't think I'm ready to sell the car due to the exterior appearance. If I give exterior appearance, interior appearance, and performance each 1/3 of the value of the car to me, I'm still up 66% to 33%. And to me, the exterior doesn't carry as much weight as the performance so it's more like 75-25. The car's getting detailed next Thursday, so I'll post a final update after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Bellune Posted September 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 PS - I love black cars. I feel like it says, "mine" when I walk up to it. 4 of our 6 are black. My wife's Explorer is white. The only real color in our fleet is my daughter's red Jeep. This is the first car I've ever owned where I cared enough about swirls to make a fuss over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Rodgers Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 Great attitude!!! In the end it's just a car, there are a lot more important things to worry about!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug_GT350 Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 Great attitude!!! In the end it's just a car, there are a lot more important things to worry about!!!! Yeah like, How the heck do I get all this melted rubber off the rear fenders..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Bellune Posted September 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Final update: My detailer, Chris at Classic City Detail & Customs in Athens, GA, did a great job on the hood and the rest of the car. Not a swirl mark in sight. He also pointed out the scratches he would not be able to get all the way out before he started, but he did reduce their visibility to the point where I have to look really hard under just the right light to see them at all. My Ford dealer, to their credit, offered to pay me for the detailing because they did such a poor job on the finish work. The body shop guy said it was important to him that they "did the right thing" to make me a satisfied customer. All in all, I couldn't be happier with the end result. It took a little longer to get here than I expected, but get here we did. Thank you everyone for your advice and supportive comments! Cheers, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAI-Steven Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 That is good news but I suggest continuing with the Voodo therapy to be safe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Bellune Posted September 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twobjshelbys Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Great news and the dealer gets two attaboys. They should have sent it out to a pro in the first place and now they know who to send them to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondo Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 That is good news but I suggest continuing with the Coyote therapy to be safe Congrats, Jeff, glad it all worked out for you and the car. FYI Steven, the GT350 motor is a Voodoo, not Coyote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAI-Steven Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Congrats, Jeff, glad it all worked out for you and the car. FYI Steven, the GT350 motor is a Voodoo, not Coyote. I knew that, just asleep at the wheel. Post corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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