e85

[venem07]

thinking of running e85 on 2014 gt500 with bolt ons and imput on e85?????????

[Torched10]

You're kidding right. I have an ext that can use e 85=.my ext usually gets 14mpg on 93 it has ,405HP. I tried a tank of e,85 and it got 9mpg. It's a zero sum game gas with less btus needs more volume to burn.stay with the good stuff

[twobjshelbys]

It depends on if you are trying to use it as fuel on the street or as a higher octane race fuel. E85 for road use is one of the biggest scams ever perpetrated on the American public. As a race fuel it has some merits, but nothing you can't get from a good drum of the real stuff. But your concept of "bolt ons" is a gross simplification. You will need an E85 tune, beffier injectors, plugs, possibly fuel pump, and then there will always be the nagging concern about the effect (both short and long term) of the alcohol on plumbing.

 

Note that Flex Fuel vehicles have engine programming for both E85 and standard gasoline, and switch between them. You would have to manually switch your tune (using a programmer) every time you change fuel type. Unless of course you spend big bucks and replace the entire ECU.

 

I haven't seen "Flex Fuel" vehicles promoted for a couple of years. I don't even know if Ford offers them any more.

 

I will also add that in the midwest where E85 is really pushed hard, the cost difference hardly ever made it sensible to use E85 as a primary fuel. To determine the break point you need to calculate cents per mile instead of miles per gallon. The fact that E85 delivers about 1/2-2/3 of the MPG of standard gas make it popular only with tree huggers and corn farmers. [i grew up in the midwest, on a corn farm, and noone I know uses it.]

 

Yes, I'm trying to talk you out of it.

Edited April 16, 2016 by twobjshelbys

[venem07]

i am not concerned about fuel mpg E85 I read has a octane rating about 105 . my car has headers, cai, throttle body, lower pulley 737rwhp E85 can give me about another 50hp THANKS

[twobjshelbys]

i am not concerned about fuel mpg E85 I read has a octane rating about 105 . my car has headers, cai, throttle body, lower pulley 737rwhp E85 can give me about another 50hp THANKS

 

If the higher octane is what you are after then the E85 conversion makes sense for your application. For most it will not.

 

Let us know how much the whole task costs. There has been some discussion but I'm not sure anyone has actually done it.

 

Also you know that availability is an issue. I have not seen a single station that has E85 in Vegas.

[venem07]

I am taking car in on monday I will post some info when i get it back. I live in MI e85 is easy to get

[Dave1968]

i am not concerned about fuel mpg E85 I read has a octane rating about 105 . my car has headers, cai, throttle body, lower pulley 737rwhp E85 can give me about another 50hp THANKS

I don't know a whole lot about E85, but if you're not getting the power out of every explosion like with normal gas, then being able to advance your timing a bit more will not make up for it. You will lose power no matter what.

[venem07]

they say up to 50hp and cooler temps

[1 Alibi 2]

I hope the 50 hp is worth whatever side effects come with it, most people that look to use it race their cars..

[08KR525]

Another thing to consider is that you actually get quality fuel. The true ethanol content can vary from station to station, plus if the fuel sits for very long it has the tendency to attract moisture, all if which can have devastating effects if you're already running on the edge.

[twobjshelbys]

I hope the 50 hp is worth whatever side effects come with it, most people that look to use it race their cars..

 

I wonder too. A drum of race fuel and a tune is alot cheaper and more reversible. But it seems he's got his teeth set on it.

 

I concur with the previous post as well, there is known to be a wide variance in the E85 product.

[Helix]

I actually just gave a huge explanation on this to a friend of mine; I ended up doing all of the math one morning at work and finally saw the answer in the math.

 

Basically, in short, E85 will give you more power than 93 or even 98 octane fuel. First off, stoichiometrically one equivalent of ethanol (1 mol) burns with just under 1/4th less energy than one equivalent of the average petroleum mix, ie octane (Carbon chains of 5 to 12). However, the ratio of air in the combustion reaction for octane is 12.5 : 1 air to fuel while air to ethanol is 3 : 1. Since E85 is 85% ethanol and 15% petroleum fuel just multiple the percentages so the air to E85 ratio is about 4.43 : 1

 

So, in the same volume of the cylinder with the piston from bottom dead center to top dead center you can put in just about 3 equivalents of E85 as fuel in versus octane. This is why your gas lines have to be changed - and consequently why you will burn through a tank of gas faster. Of course this also opens the door to adjust the boost levels.

 

As for the cooler engine: the Ideal Gas Law is PV=nRT (technically the 4 cycles are isotherm to adiabatic calculations but that's unnecessary for this). With more hydrocarbon fuel in the cylinder you will have more CO2 gas as exhaust; thus, if the pressure has moved up relevant to what it is now, then the temperature can't also move up in violation of the Ideal Gas Law. So, it burns less hot.

 

 

Last point: the effects on the engine. I assume you won't be driving the GT500 year-round. Ethanol can draw in moisture (hygroscopic) and especially in E85 will settle in the tank. If the petroleum mix has sulfur in it, which is less of a problem in summer mixes of course, then you will end up with sulfonates which can become sulfuric acid, react with ethanol in a reaction called transesterification which yada yada its harmful to your engine and promotes corrosion / rust.

 

So, with that in mind E85 is indeed around an octane rating (isooctane compression detonation rating) of 105. If you could find some nice racing fuel that would be the healthier and more powerful option honestly; E85 when driven every day probably isn't too harmful but between your ethanol stabilizers during storage and hoping you can control the humidity in storage I would say just use racing fuel.

[Torched10]

That's why I'm not chemical engineer

Great easily understood

Thanks. Chem es were smartest in my engrg school

[venem07]

car went in today for e85. i will post hp gains when i get it back. there is some good info on e85 at kennybell e85

[mhr1961]

There are as many positive as there are negative articles about E85. The biggest drawback to me in regard to E85 is that it is not as regulated as gasolines. Most people don’t know that E85 can be anywhere from 85% ethanol down to 51% ethanol and can still legally be labeled E85. I would not choose to put a fuel in a car that wasn’t originally designed for a fuel with that much variance. Best of luck to anyone who does attempt it.

 

From the US Department of Energy Pamphlet on Handling and Distributing E85:

“A Note on Terminology: Flex Fuel and E85. “E85” is a term that technically refers to an ethanol fuel blend containing 15% gasoline and 85% ethanol. By law, ethanol used for blending must contain at least 2% denaturant (a hydrocarbon or hydrocarbons in the gasoline boiling range) to make it unfit for human consumption. ASTM International (ASTM) D5798—a fuel quality standard—previously referred to this ethanol blend as E85. The blend is now referred to as “ethanol flex fuel” or “FFV fuel.” For performance and reliability in various climates and seasons, ASTM D5798 allows a range of ethanol content between E51 to E83. (That means 51% to 83% ethanol). Because of this variation in the allowable ethanol percentage, many in research and industry have begun using the term “flex fuel” rather than “E85”.

Edited April 27, 2016 by mhr1961

[AZ08GT500]

I have been running E85 for 2 months now on my 13 GT500. If you have a 13/14 than all you really need is a 20 volt KB BAP and ID1300 injectors, I also have upgraded to bigger fore fuel rails and lines, Lund remote tuned my car and the only bitch I have is the car is kinda hard to start when cold starting. I test every time I fill up on E85, most of the time its E80, once in awhile ill get E90. Lund didn't go crazy with timing like most tuners do, I'm only at 18 degrees advanced. I do recommend going to E85 if you're looking for cheap race gas. Yes you will get bad MPG, I only get 12MPG.

[ilmor]

It depends on if you are trying to use it as fuel on the street or as a higher octane race fuel. E85 for road use is one of the biggest scams ever perpetrated on the American public.

Please don't remind me of the billions of wasted dollars and extreme rise in meat prices which resulted from that scam. I'm glad to see that the cattle and beef industry is recovering and meat prices are coming down.

[venem07]

AZ08GT500 what kind of hp are you making on that set up????

[AZ08GT500]

AZ08GT500 what kind of hp are you making on that set up????

I haven't had the car on the dyno yet. I remote street tuned with Lund. I would guess maybe 790ish WHP

[venem07]

wow bet it runs great when u put it on the dyno u might have more hp than that

[venem07]

got my car back and had a chance to go for a drive. I can definitely notice a gain in hp. in Michigan it was 60 deg when I drove it and just spun a lot. I picked up 47hp on e85 dyno is at 758hp and 705 torque at 2800rpm