Separated at birth ?

[shelbymotorsports]

While watching Jay Leno's new car show something caught my eye while Jay was looking at the Meyer's Manx prototype at the Petersen museum. That Meyer's Manx logo sure looks similar to the Terlingua logo.

 

So which came first? It appears the Meyer's Manx prototype was built in 1964 which is a couple years before Bill Neale sketched the Terlingua logo at the Ranch.

 

Yes one is a rabbit and the other is a cat but both of them are facing left, both are holding up one paw, both are using the shape of a shield for their design.

 

Bruce Meyer's boat and fiberglass business was in SoCal and with the Meyer's Manx being such a hit it would difficult to believe that.....................................

 

Anyone know if this has been addressed before or if there is some sort of backstory?

 

 

 

[ageishecker]

Wow. Those are a lot alike.

[Frank S]

The animals' pose is classic from heraldry, seems to me. Anyone designing a badge or coat of arms or such is likely to know and/or research that kind of stuff before committing a brand to such a thing. It wasn't an accident in either case.

 

 

Like so.

 

Here's ours:

 

 

The motto is comiter sed fortiter, which means courteously but firmly.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Frank S

[twobjshelbys]

I was going to ask if they were based on each other or in fact come from a common ancestor

[mhr1961]

This was discussed in the terlingua forum before over 5 years ago. See thread titled "TRT Logo" from 2009. Frank is right about the heraldry emblem pose. I don't think anybody copied each other.

[HARALD KELLEY]

While watching Jay Leno's new car show something caught my eye while Jay was looking at the Meyer's Manx prototype at the Petersen museum. That Meyer's Manx logo sure looks similar to the Terlingua logo.

 

So which came first? It appears the Meyer's Manx prototype was built in 1964 which is a couple years before Bill Neale sketched the Terlingua logo at the Ranch.

 

Yes one is a rabbit and the other is a cat but both of them are facing left, both are holding up one paw, both are using the shape of a shield for their design.

 

Bruce Meyer's boat and fiberglass business was in SoCal and with the Meyer's Manx being such a hit it would difficult to believe that.....................................

 

Anyone know if this has been addressed before or if there is some sort of backstory?

 

 

 

I saw that tonight as well this evening. I did a double take @ the logo. Interesting.

[shelbymotorsports]

The animals' pose is classic from heraldry, seems to me. Anyone designing a badge or coat of arms or such is likely to know and/or research that kind of stuff before committing a brand to such a thing. It wasn't an accident in either case.

 

 

 

Like so.

 

Here's ours:

 

 

 

The motto is comiter sed fortiter, which means courteously but firmly.

 

Now that does make sense and would help explain the similarity between the two.

 

Steve

Edited October 16, 2015 by shelbymotorsports

[shelbymotorsports]

This was discussed in the terlingua forum before over 5 years ago. See thread titled "TRT Logo" from 2009. Frank is right about the heraldry emblem pose. I don't think anybody copied each other.

 

Below is the link to that 2009 thread

 

http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php/topic/39214-the-trt-logo/

[shelbymotorsports]

Edited October 16, 2015 by shelbymotorsports

[mhr1961]

Here is a little more info:

 

The Meyers Manx Logo was used because the breed of Manx Cat has a stubbed or no tail. Meyers used this symbol because the chassis of the Meyers Manx was a shortened or “stubbed” VW chassis. Any similarity is just coincidence and if you look at most “heraldry” animals many have raised arms or aggressive/defensive posturing.

Bill Neale originally thought of using a buzzard but decided to use a Jack Rabbit because it was thought of more as a “Texas” critter. You can read about the why he chose the symbols on the logo in an interview of Bill Neale and on how he went about developing the logo. See the Terlingua Racing Team Site here:

 

http://terlinguaracingteam.com/terlingua-racing-team-history/

 

Hope this helps dispel any notion that one or the other may have copied someone else’s logo. Porshe, Ferrarri, and many automobile companies/race teams used “heraldry” symbols….even Ford used it before they standardized on the blue oval.

Edited October 16, 2015 by mhr1961

[JeffJ]

Here's the Datsun Roadster emblem that I was making reference to in the other thread. I particularly liked the black on yellow color!

 

[HARALD KELLEY]

interesting read.

[DubbsFaris]

I bought an envelope thought to be the first known use of the Terlingua bunny, and it is postmarked to validate the time frame.

 

It was sent by Bill to someone in 1964. I hope to have a chance to question Bill about it as the timeframe appears to slightly alter the origins of TRT.

[VorpalBunny]

Here's the Datsun Roadster emblem that I was making reference to in the other thread. I particularly liked the black on yellow color!

 

How very Terlingua of them! Smile.

 

 

 

David

[VorpalBunny]

I bought an envelope thought to be the first known use of the Terlingua bunny, and it is postmarked to validate the time frame.

 

It was sent by Bill to someone in 1964. I hope to have a chance to question Bill about it as the timeframe appears to slightly alter the origins of TRT.

Nicely done Warren!

 

 

 

David

[shelbymotorsports]

I bought an envelope thought to be the first known use of the Terlingua bunny, and it is postmarked to validate the time frame.

 

It was sent by Bill to someone in 1964. I hope to have a chance to question Bill about it as the timeframe appears to slightly alter the origins of TRT.

Dubbs, keep us informed on what you dig up. Wasn't the folklore that Bill Neale drew the bunny logo while sitting by the campfire around 1966-67 where Carroll asked why the Rabbits paw was up in the air?

[mhr1961]

 

 

I bought an envelope thought to be the first known use of the Terlingua bunny, and it is postmarked to validate the time frame.

 

It was sent by Bill to someone in 1964. I hope to have a chance to question Bill about it as the timeframe appears to slightly alter the origins of TRT.

 

This topic is definitely interesting. The question of which came first the “bunny” or the “manx cat” is getting intriguing. With Dubbs posting that he has a letter post marked from 1964 using the “bunny” , this info may be further evidence that the Terlingua Bunny may have came first. I did a trademark search on the Meyers Manx Logo and the info I found stated that the trademark had been abandoned at a couple of points but it did mention that its “first use anywhere” was 1/1/1965.” And it stated that its “first use in commerce was 1/1/1966”.

 

In regard to the Terlingua Trademark I found that is had also been abandoned at some point but it did mention that its “first use anywhere” was 1/1/1965.” And it stated that its “first use in commerce was 1/1/1965”.

 

edited for spelling

Edited October 20, 2015 by mhr1961

[DubbsFaris]

Will do! It's actually something I paid quite a sum for. I knew the ramifications the moment I saw it. Truth is I did not really want to out its existence, but weighing the option of having Bill regarded in a bit of creative borrowing vs. The bunny being conceived earlier....well, it's interesting.

 

At this point, what the brand did after creation is far more important than exactly how or where it was conceived.

[DubbsFaris]

 

Just in case my information is in doubt.

 

Notice it doesnt say Terlingua Racing Team, which tells me Bill had the logo design for the Ranch (Which makes sense) before the creation of the Racing Team. Also notice that this was right around when Carroll came out with his chili brand, so it probably went down like this-

 

They designed the logo for the ranch as a banner or flag for it, applied that to the chili brand, then created the racing team in 1966, and then the chili cookoff came about with selling off the ranch as a natural progression since it was branded for that 3 years before.

 

I'll go over this with Bill if I can get a meeting with him in February. I am hopeful, and as TPS is now the official registry of TRT for the Neale family, this is important information to document correctly in my mind.

[shelbymotorsports]

TRTenvelope.JPG

 

Just in case my information is in doubt.

 

Notice it doesnt say Terlingua Racing Team, which tells me Bill had the logo design for the Ranch (Which makes sense) before the creation of the Racing Team. Also notice that this was right around when Carroll came out with his chili brand, so it probably went down like this-

 

They designed the logo for the ranch as a banner or flag for it, applied that to the chili brand, then created the racing team in 1966, and then the chili cookoff came about with selling off the ranch as a natural progression since it was branded for that 3 years before.

 

I'll go over this with Bill if I can get a meeting with him in February. I am hopeful, and as TPS is now the official registry of TRT for the Neale family, this is important information to document correctly in my mind.

Neat piece of memorabilia.

 

I believe the racing team and chili cook-off started in 1967.

 

Carroll didn't have much money in 1962-63 as he was in California getting Shelby American off the ground along with supporting a family back in Texas so it's looking like the Terlingua property was purchased in 1964 which falls in line with Warren's envelope postmark.

[HARALD KELLEY]

TRTenvelope.JPG

 

Just in case my information is in doubt.

 

Notice it doesnt say Terlingua Racing Team, which tells me Bill had the logo design for the Ranch (Which makes sense) before the creation of the Racing Team. Also notice that this was right around when Carroll came out with his chili brand, so it probably went down like this-

 

They designed the logo for the ranch as a banner or flag for it, applied that to the chili brand, then created the racing team in 1966, and then the chili cookoff came about with selling off the ranch as a natural progression since it was branded for that 3 years before.

 

I'll go over this with Bill if I can get a meeting with him in February. I am hopeful, and as TPS is now the official registry of TRT for the Neale family, this is important information to document correctly in my mind.

cool!

[DubbsFaris]

Neat piece of memorabilia.

 

I believe the racing team and chili cook-off started in 1967.

 

Carroll didn't have much money in 1962-63 as he was in California getting Shelby American off the ground along with supporting a family back in Texas so it's looking like the Terlingua property was purchased in 1964 which falls in line with Warren's envelope postmark.

Yes, the Titus car was '67. The first Cookoff was 1967. But you can kind of see the inspiration happening for each here. If they were just getting to the ranch in 1964, established the logo, and Bill calls it the Chili capital of the world under the logo- it makes sense that a chili Cookoff comes about a couple years later. I bet TRT came about just by them looking at the logo and sayin- "we should use this for something more"

 

All just speculation to inspiration, but I can see that going down.

 

The real question to me now is- was lucifer a doodle before Terlingua? Did he have it and just not know where to use the design? The logo leads to the chili idea, because the rabbit holds out his paw. But was that designed, or did they like the look and try to come up with a reason to have his paw up? Cool stuff no matter what- but this is birth of legends stuff...