Just Wondering...

[LuLu]

I am wondering if any of y'all would like to air any gripes about the Shelby Registry.

 

I am not looking for trouble with anyone, but my recent (past 3 weeks) experience does not sit well with me, and that means I screwed up, or, someone else screwed up and I need to flush it out. I'm not going to post any details right now. I am wondering if any of y'all are feeling likewise. I suppose a simple yes or no would work, unless you want to post some details now. But that's up to you. If the answers are mostly yes, or, positive, I'll post more about my experience. If not, I'll ask the Administrators to remove, or, lock this thread so it cannot be dug up again.

 

I suppose I should expect someone to point out that "this horse has been beaten enough", and I almost agree. I have read about those beatings myself, so, save your energy. My experience is recent, so, it appears that a lesson has not been learned, or, a promise to improve has not been kept. This is why I am asking now.

 

I haven't seen much posted on this topic since Carroll passed away. There have been a few changes in other areas of concern and it is clear to me that "the show will go on". Doesn't really matter, we are the customers and we should be heard if disappointed. I imagine that management would want to know if something wasn't working right. If this is the case, let's bring it out and ask for repairs. This is fair to both sides of any issue. Above all, be civil, and be factual. Something may get done on your behalf, and I believe we would all like to see that happen.

 

So...What do y'all think?

 

Until that time, Y'all be safe.

[twobjshelbys]

I think there are huge privacy issues with any publicly available registry. Even data mining to find a frequency of configuration could be uused in a negative way. I thnk that Shelby answers specific questions about the validity of a specific Vin but only when contacted privately and not on a public forum. It's appropriate given the current state of identity theft and private info.

Just to put it in perspective I don't think the SAAC cobra registry book would stand a snowballs chance of being created today. I don't think anyone would volunteer to give the info that some of the cars have especially owner names.

[stngfever]

Plenty have frustrations as it relates to this subject, the least of which is the private info that has never been asked to be divulged.

[Don Johnston]

The three recent volumes of the SAAC Registry are an amazing result of effort by numerous personnel who communicate with current car owners and review mountains of original documents. They are extremely detailed but are recognized as not being the final word as research is an ongoing process. The number of Shelby vehicles covered in those three volumes is nowhere near all the vehicles produced out of the SA Las Vegas locations or licensed by Shelby Licensing. It would be an enormous task to put in a data base. As for privacy, SAAC only prints what is voluntarily submitted as to ownership. The information on the cars is the focus, not the owner. The history is retained for the future as to the car details, modifications, racing history, etc.

 

The hardest part f any registry for current Shelby vehicles would be to deal with the sheer volume of production. If it were limited to only SA shop production, it might be feasible, but would require numerous personnel to handle it at this point. Any effort to cover the tens of thousands of base model GT500 Shelbys would be impossible. Maybe some Team Shelby could work on the various SA shop models to verify from the factory numbers for authenticity and ask those current owners if they want their names included.

[JN31606]

Would love to respond with an answer for you but frankly, I'm not sure I understand what you're asking.

Are you unhappy because there's no public registry as yet?

Are you unhappy because of some past personal privacy issue?

Are you unhappy with the direction SA is headed?

What???

[Pockdog]

... about the Shelby Registry.

 

 

What is the Shelby Registry? What is its purpose, etc...?

 

Having yet to ever own a Shelby (I came close, but no luck) I've heard of this but do not know what it is.

 

-Pockdog

[LuLu]

I do not have a computer, per se. I use a smartphone and 1st gen. IPad with stylus pen. No keyboard, no mouse, thus I cannot add emphasis or color to my words. I can type all caps, but I am NOT shouting. I can type "between quotation marks" and (parenthesis) but my meaning is not typical punctuation. Please try to keep this in mind while reading my post, thank you.

 

Would love to respond with an answer for you but frankly, I'm not sure I understand what you're asking.

Are you unhappy because there's no public registry as yet?

Are you unhappy because of some past personal privacy issue?

Are you unhappy with the direction SA is headed?

What???

So much at once! Very good start, I'll try to follow your sequence.

 

"What am I asking" I am asking if anyone here would like to have a discussion about the Shelby Registry. Not looking for abuse, or, to be critical of the folks who presently manage the Registry. However, I have seen other threads where complaints have been expressed, and I have my own experience to discuss as well. I know this can be a rather "heated" topic at times, and I am wondering if anyone here would like to keep things civil and well mannered while looking for some improvement or resolution. I hope this answers your question.

 

Let me say that I am NOT unhappy, not at all. If anything, I am confused, and confusion can be frustrating, so, may as well add frustrated to confused.

 

I know little about "public" or, what that means relative to the Shelby Registry. I do not know of any delay in publication of anything at this time. I find nothing published on paper, or, available on-line, so, "public" seems a moot point. Perhaps this "nothing" is what you ask about? If so, I am not on that bandwagon at this time. What I CAN say, is;

 

I registered my two Shelbys upon purchase in 2007, as stock SGTs. Then, this was a matter of submitting my name, VIN and CSM number, perhaps something more and so minor I do not recall now. Since then, both cars have undergone modifications I would consider "permanent", not "bolt-ons". I do not imagine selling either of them, so I do not see a need to update my initial entries. Not sure I know HOW to update my modifications, even if I wanted to.

 

There are just a few parts/options/accessories/events offered by Shelby where entry in the Shelby Registry is "required", but none that have required more than my initial registration. To be logical about this, if no one is/would be allowed to review my updates over stock, there seems no reason for me to update my initial entries. If someone could dial up my CSM number and see what I have done, I would update that data, most likely as it happened. This WOULD be a reasonably neat feature I suppose, but if it hasn't happened yet, then it's not meant to be. I'm okay with this.

 

Upon my passing, my survivors may want to sell my cars. A detailed history, a "pedigree" if you will, might be helpful to them. I have all my records and logs at home, they just need to know where to look. I do not, and would not, expect the Shelby Registry to play any role in establishing my "pedigree".

 

The Registry does serve a buyer when it confirms "genuine", but only if/when asked for. This is benefit is questionable. It requires that I register my Shelby with them, and I know many owners who have not. This benefits the buyer if he knows enough to ask the Registry for confirmation. Beyond associating VIN to CSM number, all any registry can do, is confirm heritage. Add it all together, it's "6 of 1, half dozen of the other", yes?

 

This reality opens a deeper discussion about WHAT the Registry CAN contain, and if it SHOULD contain such data, and SHOULD that data be made public. Let us SET THIS TOPIC ASIDE for now, and move along? I promise to cover it once other issues are on the table.

 

I am not unhappy about ANY privacy issue at this time. I know of none, other than my own, which I will explain later.

 

I must add that more often than not, a CSM number is proudly revealed by the owner, one way or another. For me, my two CSM numbers are displayed in my signatures. I have my CSM numbers on display on both front fenders of both vehicles. I did this. On my own. Should I have a reasonable expectation of privacy? I think not. Should some harm befall me because of my actions, I have no one to blame but myself.

 

Moreover, in this "discussion" forum are several threads calling for isolation by color, features, region, even "seen you in traffic". Yes, we all are proud of our cars. We see another Shelby anywhere, one question will remain "what's your CSM number?" It's our anchor in the Shelby sea, and it seems very cool to me.

 

I must also mention that my VIN can be read from outside the vehicle anytime it is stationary. This is the public VIN, protected by law, to be viewed without my consent. Combine those two numbers, and you learn what? That it is a genuine Shelby. Law enforcement can learn more, but what that is, isn't for us to discuss here.

 

Regarding "data mining" mentioned above by another member but not quoted. To mine data, all one has to do is copy/paste data posted, and seek out a way of associating that with any particular VIN. Since most are S197 vehicles, much of the VIN can be predicted. The last 6 digits are unique and sequential. A low CSM number would not jibe with a high sequential VIN. Thus, piracy is somewhat limited for these Shelbys. I imagine early Cobras and non-Ford products are more difficult.

 

NOTE: I believe that any repository for data collection MUST secure the data collected. Protect it and decide how it is to be parsed out from there. THIS may be an issue for me, but I must explain my experience for y'all, so y'all may better understand my confusion. This too, is better SET ASIDE so I may go on to answer your questions. I promise to return here as well.

 

I have no idea of where SAI is headed. Surely, some changes will and should follow the passing of Carroll Shelby. So far, things are looking good, the future is bright IMHO. It is not my nature to speculate beyond that. I am pleased by the features offered for later models, but hope they do not come at the expense of withdrawing support from the 2006-2010 generations. Move ahead yes, please do not leave me behind.

 

"WHAT???" will be answered shortly, please be patient with me. I want a way of expressing my own feelings and experience, but I opened this thread asking if anyone else had something THEY wanted to express. I am not seeking a confrontation, nor do I look forward to any specific contest. There will be no victors, I will not celebrate any "win". But, small changes can refine the final product and as owners, we will benefit.

 

Plenty have frustrations as it relates to this subject, the least of which is the private info that has never been asked to be divulged.

I have just spoken about this, and I expect to say more. Stay tuned?

 

This may be an important clue to discovery of some issues. I have NOT encountered, or, read about, any violation of privacy. There is an occasional "imagination" story that seeps through and many seem to thrive on that, but I have not read any "it happened to me" stories. Not yet. They may be forthcoming now that I have opened this discussion. I will respect any such stories, as long as they are "first hand".

 

The three recent volumes of the SAAC Registry are an amazing result of effort by numerous personnel who communicate with current car owners and review mountains of original documents. They are extremely detailed but are recognized as not being the final word as research is an ongoing process. The number of Shelby vehicles covered in those three volumes is nowhere near all the vehicles produced out of the SA Las Vegas locations or licensed by Shelby Licensing. It would be an enormous task to put in a data base. As for privacy, SAAC only prints what is voluntarily submitted as to ownership. The information on the cars is the focus, not the owner. The history is retained for the future as to the car details, modifications, racing history, etc.

 

The hardest part f any registry for current Shelby vehicles would be to deal with the sheer volume of production. If it were limited to only SA shop production, it might be feasible, but would require numerous personnel to handle it at this point. Any effort to cover the tens of thousands of base model GT500 Shelbys would be impossible. Maybe some Team Shelby could work on the various SA shop models to verify from the factory numbers for authenticity and ask those current owners if they want their names included.

 

Well said. I get everything you say, and hopefully, all parties concerned will agree that it is an arduous task. No doubt here.

 

But, if my memory serves me well, all of it is a task that was asked for, and awarded. Contested in court, yes? Rights to own and maintain awarded in court? Does not this award also require maintenance of the data, and protection of participant's privacy? Does not one victory award all prizes? I suppose it does, so complaints of labor may be justified. Maybe. We will see?

 

I do wonder about your comment "They are extremely detailed but are recognized as not being the final word as research is an ongoing process". Ummm...Not? Not the final word? Okay, it is not the final word. But, what about the statement across the header of another Shelby site? The one that states "Recognized since 1975 as the undisputed authority on the history and legacy of all Shelby automobiles". Which statement is true?

 

It has been disputed, in court, and that dispute has been settled, I believe. However,the nature of the statement as it greets visitors, is one that says "we got it all right here, all true and all correct". This is the implied comfort, yes? So, if I have a question about pedigree, or, heredity, of a particular Shelby automobile, I can get my answer right here and it will be the truth. Or, can I...

 

Which statement should a new owner of a new (or old) Shelby be guided by? If a new owner later wished to update a specific "pedigree" with changes he has carried out, whom should he do that with? Should my estate dispose of my cars without passing along my build logs, where/how will the new owner of CSM XXXX get a peek at that? I am sure the new owner will see my changes once he sits in the car. But, if he cannot prove I made them prior to his purchase, he takes the blame (or glory I suppose) for those changes. This may have an effect on value, I honestly do not know.

 

Believe me, I am not trying to put any more work on the keepers of record (s), but why can't they keep up with the changes brought about by the next wind? I suppose it's a lot like swimming. You're either in the pool, or, you are not. Which is it?

 

What is the Shelby Registry? What is its purpose, etc...?

 

Having yet to ever own a Shelby (I came close, but no luck) I've heard of this but do not know what it is.

 

-Pockdog

Stick around my friend, you will understand better soon, or, not see these words again. That's up to the Admins.

 

Y'all be safe.

[HARALD KELLEY]

wow! Here is my question related to the Registry that I posted some time ago. Nothing else to add.

 

http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php/topic/87288-shelby-american-worldwide-registry/

 

I am glad you can call Shelby and get some info and Shelbymotorpsorts is always willing to assist with info within parameters mentioned before which has helped many folks.

[cmcmotorworks]

Is this about public access to the Shelby registery ? I don't want the drug dealers in my town knowing I have a couple Shelby's !

[LuLu]

wow! Here is my question related to the Registry that I posted some time ago. Nothing else to add.

 

http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php/topic/87288-shelby-american-worldwide-registry/

 

I am glad you can call Shelby and get some info and Shelbymotorpsorts is always willing to assist with info within parameters mentioned before which has helped many folks.

 

Sorry, I cannot get your link to work for me. If I could, I may be able to appreciate other comments you leave us with. I have no experience with Shelbymotorsports...Yet. When that time comes, I am sure SMS will be helpful.

 

Is this about public access to the Shelby registery ? I don't want the drug dealers in my town knowing I have a couple Shelby's !

Neither would I, but if that were to be the case, I am sure some safeguards would be in place. NTYMI, it has been my experience that drug dealers are not into stolen cars. If they are good at their trade, they may want to buy your cars, and you may get top dollar offers too. But, usually they want clean, legit cars, boats, and other toys, and they have the cash on hand. People who use drugs may be a threat though, but, how can they turn an exotic car into fast cash to buy their drugs? It's not so easy, but it may be something to concern yourself with, if you live in that kind of town.

[LuLu]

It is time to tell my story. Why I opened this thread:

 

A few weeks ago, I'm paging through the posts here, and noted that a "authenticity certificate" was available through Shelby Parts. I had forgotten all about this feature over the years, and I wanted one (two) now. I searched the Shelby Parts catalogue and found this:

 

http://www.shelbystore.com/product-p/S2MS-cert.htm

 

Following the prompts, I purchased one for each of my SGTs. I was asked to identify my CSM number, VIN, name, address, shipping address, telephone number, e-mail address, and my manner of payment. I used a Discover card. This sale required my cars to be in the Shelby Registry. They are, and everything went through. I should expect my certificates to arrive in 3 to 6 weeks. This was cool, until the next day when I received an e-mail from Shelby Parts, which read:

 

"Thank you for your recent order for two Shelby American Registry Certificates. Your registry entries have been verified and all we need now is for you to provide proof of ownership so that I may forward your order on for processing. Please send by email a copy of just one of the following items: vehicle registration, title or insurance card for each car to stevent@shelbyamerican.com You may also fax it to us at 702-974-1279. If you have any questions feel free to contact me.

 

Regards,

 

Steven Thornton

SAI Registry Supervisor / Customer Service

Shelby American, Inc.

6405 Ensworth St.

Las Vegas, NV 89119

702.942.7325

stevent@shelbyamerican.com

www.ShelbyAmerican.com"

 

This e-mail included a copy of my transaction, which appeared identical to the receipt I received the day before. It does not copy well for posting here, trust me to say that it contains a summary of details related to my purchase. This is where my confusion begins.

 

This e-mail requires me to forward back to Shelby, additional proof of ownership, and I cannot imagine why. My name does not appear on the certificates. The certificates do not identify me as the owner of these (or any) Shelby automobiles. It simply, and rather stately, confirms that the vehicles in question are genuine Shelby products. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

I called Steven Thornton to ask my questions. He replied that I needed to be identified as an "anti-cloning" measure. I did not understand what he meant, and he went on to explain in detail how this measure prevents fraud, and I felt he was reading to me from a pre-planned reply. It was difficult to get his attention with my new questions, so, I summarized it this way.

 

I placed my order through Shelby Performance Parts, where I am a known customer. There are IP addresses all along the way, my order can be traced if necessary.

 

I supplied two VINs, and two CSM numbers, all of which matched up as required. Confirmed.

 

Both cars are listed in the Shelby Registry as required. Confirmed.

 

I ordered the certificates to be shipped to my home address. Confirmed.

 

I supplied my telephone number, which was now authenticated by Steven's return call. Confirmed. Traceable.

 

I paid with a popular credit Card, also authenticated, sale approved. Again, confirmed and traceable.

 

I suggested to Steven that he could require a signature at delivery if he so wished, he replied "that is not our policy".

 

At this point, I believe I have been sufficiently identified and my Shelby GTs confirmed as genuine articles. I chuckled to think that Steven knew more about me, than I knew of him. Should there be any question down the road, there is enough data here to locate and question me. If it was important enough, I could be found.

 

I do not own a scanner, or, a fax machine, so it was not possible to comply with Steven's requirements. I could drive over to Staples and ask these items to be faxed to him, but that would cost me 10.00 each, for the fax service and long distance call. This added cost must be factored into the "bang for buck" equation, and the bang slipped away. I cancelled my order. It took two weeks to get confirmation that the sale was cancelled. Unfortunately,ni will pay finance charges on my purchase, for this two week time frame. I'm being petty, yes.

 

As a LEO, I had my own issues with sending out my personal data, when that did not seem necessary. This whole topic is driven by issues of identity theft, fraud, and impersonation. To me, it was common sense. If the certificates do not bear my name, and do not identify me as the owner of a particular Shelby product, why do I have to confirm my ownership? I still do not get this. Moreover, to hand over personal data and expose that data to theft, fraud and conversion ONLY to act as a preventive (however ineffective it seems) measure on behalf of another, confuses me. In more than one regard, it only extends exposure, and now for two parties, not just one.

 

This is the root of my frustration, and why I opened this thread. PLEASE! It is NOT necessary to repeat the justification presented by Steven Thornton, on behalf of Shelby. I GET THAT. I went over and over it all with Steven, and I have read dozens of posts here about the cloning topic. However, what is forced upon me to obtain these certificates just does not make any sense and Shelby should seek another path that serves the customer, and, allows for self protection as well. There has to be another way, where both sides win.

 

I read once, about a "mountain of paperwork" collecting at the feet of Registry managers. Guess who's fault that is? And, if you are not sharing it, why are you collecting it?

 

Well, that's all I have on this. Thank you all for allowing me to unload it here. Can't say I feel better yet, I am bracing for some salty wisdom. But, at least I did something, rather than not. I do hope this helps discover a resolution.

 

Y'all be safe.

[07SGT4578]

Best thing about using an iPad, you don't need a scanner. Take a picture of your registration/insurance card/title and attach it to an email. Problem solved. As far as having to send the previous as proof of ownership, this has been policy since the beginning. Without having to prove you own the car, all one would have to do is look through side window get csm, look at bottom of windshield and get the VIN and order a authenticity cert. To me, having to go through the process just means no one but you can order a cert.

[grsybtch]

Best thing about using an iPad, you don't need a scanner. Take a picture of your registration/insurance card/title and attach it to an email. Problem solved. As far as having to send the previous as proof of ownership, this has been policy since the beginning. Without having to prove you own the car, all one would have to do is look through side window get csm, look at bottom of windshield and get the VIN and order a authenticity cert. To me, having to go through the process just means no one but you can order a cert.

 

 

And then what would you do with it? Build a clone on a Mustang GT with a false VIN number?

[07SGT4578]

Not got to worry about that, hence the need for the procedure.

[twobjshelbys]

Are the certificates single issue? That is, once sent, can never be sent again, even to a subsequent owner? The Ford GT package was exactly that and I had to send the same level of info - in other words, Ford wanted to know I was ENTITLED to the package.

 

I don't own my Shelby GTs any more, but I have all of the info they need (and it so happens, they were both still in the registry under my name, so the registry thinks I still own them, even though Steve knows that is not the case.) From everything you just said, I should be able to order the certificates, even though I am no longer the owner of the vehicle.

[ChicagoChris]

I can understand not having free access a printer/scanner/fax machine.

However, could you drop a copy of your insurance card in the mail?

Or, call your insurance company and have them email you a copy of your card so you could forward it to SAI?

Just a thought.

[twobjshelbys]

Best thing about using an iPad, you don't need a scanner. Take a picture of your registration/insurance card/title and attach it to an email. Problem solved.

 

Or a cell phone and a simple TXT message.

[shelbymotorsports]

Up to now I've intentionally stayed out of this thread, mainly because it was very difficult to follow the OP's cryptic postings. It also seemed that the OP was more concerned with getting others riled up then he was on having any issues addressed.

 

I would like to say that Lulu's version of our phone conversation differs from mine but it all comes down to that Lulu wanted preferential treatment by not submitting the required proof of ownership, just like hundreds of other owners have done over the years. This proof of ownership requirement is spelled out in the Shelby Store description so it would have saved time if Lulu had asked questions before he placed his order. I tried my best to accommodate Lulu and was in the middle of offering other avenues on how the proof of ownership could be submitted when Lulu asked me to cancel his order. As soon as our phone conversation ended I immediately sent a refund request over to the Shelby Store and also asked the Shelby Store to follow up by sending a refund confirmation to Lulu.

 

Its regrettable that Lulu is disappointed with us but Shelby American has certain policies in place that are meant to protect both the owner and SAI and if we start to deviate from these policies then why have any policies at all.

 

Steve

[ilmor]

In my view the Shelby Registry simply doesn't exist...similar to the saying we have "pics or it didn't happen ".

 

If it is a secure, hidden, not-for-publication document strictly accessible only by Shelby Automotive, then that's fine. Shelby Autos should simply tell us this and be done with it (if they haven't done so already).

 

Edit - ok, I think this is addressed in the above post. I'm good with it.

[07SGT4578]

Mac, as the Shelby American Registrar for the Shelby GT program, I would be more than happy to help you out any way that I can. I am just a phone cal/ email/ or pm away. We want you to be happy and surely there is a way to resolve your feelings that you may not have been treated as you expected. I'm here and available if you want to reach out. Also, so that you are aware, it is good to see you posting on TS again.

 

 

Chris

[Doug_GT350]

And then what would you do with it? Build a clone on a Mustang GT with a false VIN number?

Not trying to be a smarta** but if someone was to go through all that trouble they could also counterfeit the certificate just to sell a Shelby GT clone to the unsuspecting person....

[LuLu]

ATTENTION! THIS ISSUE IS RESOLVED. As I stated earlier, there are no victors. Nobody won.

 

Mr. Steve Thornton, you disappoint me. Your post resorted to more hyperbole than fact. It is no wonder we could not come to some agreement before the telephone call ended, or, this thread became necessary. You grossly overstate fact and embellish with emotion, something I tried to avoid from the beginning. What you accuse me of, you use to your own benefit. Shame on you, Steven, you among all SAI people, should know the difference between a change in registration data, i.e. "new owner" vs. a recognized/established owner, who just wants to buy a certificate. If ever this happens again, I hope you know by then, the difference.

 

Mac, as the Shelby American Registrar for the Shelby GT program, I would be more than happy to help you out any way that I can. I am just a phone cal/ email/ or pm away. We want you to be happy and surely there is a way to resolve your feelings that you may not have been treated as you expected. I'm here and available if you want to reach out. Also, so that you are aware, it is good to see you posting on TS again.

 

Chris.

Thank you, Chris. Your patience with me is appreciated. There are a few factors I had not considered from my point of view. However, these same factors have been ignored by SAI too, thus moot point.

 

For those who wonder, I will not be buying certificates. The enjoyment of that has become too costly.

 

Y'all be safe.

 

MODERATOR: Please lock this thread. Should anyone have more to add, they can open another thread.

[shelbymotorsports]

Shame on you, Steven, you among all SAI people, should know the difference between a change in registration data, i.e. "new owner" vs. a recognized/established owner, who just wants to buy a certificate. If ever this happens again, I hope you know by then, the difference.

 

 

I certainly know the difference but once again it comes down to you wanting preferential treatment because you feel that you are "a recognized/established owner" and should not have to adhere to the same requirements as other Shelby owners. That is were we disagree, I'm not going to toss company policy out the window just because you feel you are a recognized owner.

 

Again its regrettable that you are disappointed when your order was handled like any other order by following company policy.

 

Steve

[07SGT4578]

At the OP request I have locked it.