revan Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Curious to see what others have done as far as replacing calipers, without going to a big brake kit of some kind* Did some research and unfortunately there's not many good options for these cars outside of the big brake kit realm. Taking a look at both autozone and oreilly, I came across these On both sites I selected "Shelby GT" as the submodel for my car, and these came up. They even have a note saying they're for the Shelby GT model. Funny thing is, those definitely aren't the stock calipers from our cars. Shelby never changed the brakes so ours came with the same 2 piston calipers with plastic pistons from a stock GT; these are 4 piston calipers with steel pistons. Curious if anyone has ever tried them. Trying to upgrade to something better as the stock brakes really are pretty weak even on the street. Also want something that will at least be sufficient for short 20-30 minute track runs at driving events (not competitive racing). If I was competing I'd suck it up and splurge on a full big brake setup, but since I'm just doing DE's I just need something that will brake reasonably well, consistently, and not suddenly fail going into a turn (after upgrading to high temp brake fluid, better pads, SS lines, etc.) There's a lot of decent options for better rotors and pads, but calipers not so much. Thanks!!! * Reasons the big brake kits are off the table: - I have 18" Razor wheels I don't want to part with. I was originally planning to put a set of takeoff 4 piston brembos from a GT500 on the car, but even with the +24mm offset they won't quite clear the calipers (I tried test fitting the wheels on my 08 GT500) - 20" would solve all my problems, but I really don't want the extra rotational mass or the lower sidewall that comes with that. - Not racing competitively so it's hard to justify spending $3-6k or more on a big brake kit just for an occasional track weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJ Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Interesting. Those look pretty good. I would however bet that these will not fit behind your wheels. I'm sure others would love for you to give them a try to see. The 18" isn't the problem, it's the space between the spokes and the caliper that would be a problem. Never mind, they would probably fit since you have the Razors. I didn't notice that you said that. Not sure about behind stock wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revan Posted February 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Yeh Jeff that's really the issue I had with the brembo's - the razors (18x9") have a little more clearance than the stock SGT wheels (18x8.5") but the spokes of the wheel don't protrude out terribly far and they'll hit the caliper. I originally got some 40mm offset razors and they wouldn't even sit on the hub of my GT500. I got some 24's and they sat on it perfectly fine, but they did finally hit the brembos when I went to torque the lugs. close but no cigar! A friend of mine suggested I could try wheel spacers and get longer studs to make up the difference. It's a possibility but I believe spacers aren't good for track use. Just what i've heard but don't quote me on it.I think at some point I might go get these calipers from oreilly and at least try to test fit them without running fluid or lines to them. If they don't fit I can return them unused. I also noticed they're stamped with "FoMoCo" in the center. And they also look kinda similar to the 4 piston brembos (minus the smooth finish paint of course). hmmmm, so many questions so little time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuLu Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I looked at your suggestion in depth. Where these calipers belong confuses me, but they are surely NOT for the 2005-2009 Mustang GT, nor the 2006 GT-H, or the 2007-2008 Shelby GT. Shelby did not upgrade any brake system over that of the Mustang GT. I also see your suggestion lists these calipers as replacements for the GT500KR. Really? Something is amiss here, move forward carefully. I own two 2007 SGTs, and I have been through every brake component twice or more. I have not encountered any plastic pistons, mine have been metal, aluminum I'm guessing because they are rather light. Guess I'm just lucky, eh? Anyway, one SGT is over 700 hp, and it has a complete Wilwood system for that reason. The second SGT is mostly stock (350 hp) hence the brakes are mostly stock too. I bought a set of take-offs from the web, and scrubbed them down before powder coating them. I upgraded the rotors and added a set of EBC Yellow stuff pads, SS lines and high temp fluid (DOT4). Brakes are solid and sure, and this SGT is raced almost every weekend in the season. It's not so fast that it can overpower the brake components I selected. Total investment was under 600 bucks, and I am careful to replace the pads often, usually twice a year. I feel like I "beat the Devil" with conservative upgrades. Other posts ^ there mention clearance, and it IS important to measure out for correct backspace and offset. This is very confusing territory, but once you learn it, you won't go wrong again. Most brake and wheel companies offer templates, be patient and do the math. Y'all be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Bishop Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I did a little research this morning, these calipers are manufactured by CARDONE Industries and are a direct replacement for any Mustang with stock Brembo's and will not fit the 18" SGT wheels, O'Reilly's has them listed incorrectly. But if someone was planning on upgrading, this would be a much cheaper alternative to buying take-off's.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmor Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Internet Explore doesn't let me copy / paste on this site (sigh).....however...look up Powerstop brake calipers. They are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry T Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Link http://www.powerstop.com/products/#y=2007&mk=FORD&mo=MUSTANG&ss=SHELBY%20GT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revan Posted February 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Lulu you ROCK! That's EXACTLY the kind of feedback I was looking for. Man I love this forum! I'm essentially stock on power right now but have a 400HP FR whipple kit going on at some point. The fact that you're racing yours a lot on the stock setup is reassuring. If you've made them work in a racing scenario then they should be perfectly fine for an occasional HPDE. Other comments: - What i meant by plastic pistons is I was told the stock calipers use phenolic pistons, which are essentially high temp plastic. I could be wrong on all counts. - Where did you see GT500KR listed for those 4 piston calipers? I just saw the note for Shelby GT. I suppose they would work on a KR but I can't imagine anyone swapping off brembos for them, lol! - Yeh I've definitely learned about wheel spacing and offsets thanks to this little pet project! I think I'm gonna get a set of these calipers and try test fitting them up front and see if the wheels will clear. As long as I don't run fluid lines to them oreilly probably wouldn't have heartburn over me returning them if they didn't fit. If they do end up fitting then I'd have them powercoated. Probably have my guy add some SHELBY GT lettering for a nice finishing touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revan Posted February 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 ilmor/Larry T, Yeh I came across that powerstop kit a while back. Appears they take a set of OEM GT calipers and give em the powercoat treatment. If they had more color options I probably would have given them a shot, but I think the red would stand out a little too much against the backdrop of a white/silver SGT. If they had a silver or black I'd give it a whirl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJ Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I'm pretty confident that these Cardone replacement calipers are rebuilt actual Brembo take offs. If you can ever find these in stock anywhere, yes that would be a good deal. The stock Brembo's have the same FOMOCO part number on the back as in pictures I can find. Yes Oreilly and Autozone websites are incorrect that these will ever fit a Shelby GT. These are rebuilt replacements for the GT500, KR, etc that used this Brembo caliper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITHERTZ66 Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Yes, the Cardone calipers are Brembo. The Brembo name is cast right below the Ford. I found a set supposedly in stock at CARiD. You need: 18-5128 AND 18-5129 for the matching front set. Was $220 shipped. I plan to use the Raybestos Rotors at $100 for the pair shipped (Amazon) and Duralast CMax pads I like for the street (DGC1001) for $50 that won't dust like the Brembo pads. I already have the upgraded BOSS 302 brake lines, so $367 for a Brembo(ish) upgrade seems pretty reasonable compared to the high prices I've found for used take-offs. I will do this when I upgrade to my 18" CS69 wheels I already purchased in the (near) future. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39Mustang Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Curious to see what others have done as far as replacing calipers, without going to a big brake kit of some kind* Did some research and unfortunately there's not many good options for these cars outside of the big brake kit realm. Taking a look at both autozone and oreilly, I came across these On both sites I selected "Shelby GT" as the submodel for my car, and these came up. They even have a note saying they're for the Shelby GT model. Funny thing is, those definitely aren't the stock calipers from our cars. Shelby never changed the brakes so ours came with the same 2 piston calipers with plastic pistons from a stock GT; these are 4 piston calipers with steel pistons. Curious if anyone has ever tried them. Trying to upgrade to something better as the stock brakes really are pretty weak even on the street. Also want something that will at least be sufficient for short 20-30 minute track runs at driving events (not competitive racing). If I was competing I'd suck it up and splurge on a full big brake setup, but since I'm just doing DE's I just need something that will brake reasonably well, consistently, and not suddenly fail going into a turn (after upgrading to high temp brake fluid, better pads, SS lines, etc.) There's a lot of decent options for better rotors and pads, but calipers not so much. Thanks!!! * Reasons the big brake kits are off the table: - I have 18" Razor wheels I don't want to part with. I was originally planning to put a set of takeoff 4 piston brembos from a GT500 on the car, but even with the +24mm offset they won't quite clear the calipers (I tried test fitting the wheels on my 08 GT500) - 20" would solve all my problems, but I really don't want the extra rotational mass or the lower sidewall that comes with that. - Not racing competitively so it's hard to justify spending $3-6k or more on a big brake kit just for an occasional track weekend. if don't want to spend then install some Hawk Performance Street brake pads and you will notice a difference. Plus, DBA rotors are fairly inexpensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Bishop Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I freshened up my brakes this past summer with the Power Stop kit off Amazon K1381 (http://www.powerstop.com/product/power-stop-z16-kit/#y=2008&mk=FORD&mo=MUSTANG&ss=SHELBY%20GT). I caught an amazing deal, I paid less than $260 shipped. I also took the time to clean and paint the calipers with a G2 kit off ebay, I chose silver to keep it stock looking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmor Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I freshened up my brakes this past summer with the Power Stop kit off Amazon K1381 (http://www.powerstop.com/product/power-stop-z16-kit/#y=2008&mk=FORD&mo=MUSTANG&ss=SHELBY%20GT). I caught an amazing deal, I paid less than $260 shipped. I also took the time to clean and paint the calipers with a G2 kit off ebay, I chose silver to keep it stock looking.... I really like that look. NICE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revan Posted February 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 LOVE the addition of the Shelby GT to those calipers. Planning to do exactly that if I settle on calipers that aren't already painted. And yes I'm definitely doing better pads and rotors, along with SS brake lines and high temp brake fluid. There's a nice variety of options on those fronts, just very limited on calipers unless you go to big brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Bishop Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Here's where I purchased the caliper decals; http://www.vinzdecals.com/createcaliper.html Very limited on your choices, the block font was close enough for me..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurgan Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 If someone gets those calipers it would be nice to know the weight in comparison to the regular Brembos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmor Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Here's where I purchased the caliper decals; http://www.vinzdecals.com/createcaliper.html Very limited on your choices, the block font was close enough for me..... Nice!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuLu Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 WOW! I love where this thread is taking us. This is the payoff of reading, learning, doing, and sharing what comes from all that. I want it all to continue, and I have more of my own learning/doing to share with y'all, but I have been absent from here for many years and I need a little time to dig out my notes and blow off some dust. I have learned a lot in those years and I feel it's time to share again. Stay tuned...Y'all be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyBlueHeaven Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Yes, the Cardone calipers are Brembo. The Brembo name is cast right below the Ford. I found a set supposedly in stock at CARiD. You need: 18-5128 AND 18-5129 for the matching front set. Was $220 shipped. I plan to use the Raybestos Rotors at $100 for the pair shipped (Amazon) and Duralast CMax pads I like for the street (DGC1001) for $50 that won't dust like the Brembo pads. I already have the upgraded BOSS 302 brake lines, so $367 for a Brembo(ish) upgrade seems pretty reasonable compared to the high prices I've found for used take-offs. I will do this when I upgrade to my 18" CS69 wheels I already purchased in the (near) future. Troy Troy Do they come with the solid brake line pieces that transfers the fluid from one side of the calipers to the other? I see they're plugged in the picture and didn't see anything in the description about it. If not where would you get that piece? Possibly at the dealer? Since these are listed as a replacement part, and not an upgrade, they might expect you to transfer that piece off the old caliper. Just curious. I know the pic is a newer version of the brembo, but you can see the line I'm speaking of that moves the fluid to the pistons on the other side. Would love to know the outcome since this is something I would consider doing. Thanks Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revan Posted February 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Yeh Lulu, this thread may be heading towards being "sticky" worthy. I stumbled across this company a while back (SSBC). Seems like good quality stuff. I found this kit. 3 piston calipers. may not be as good as a 4 piston but at least better than the stock 2 calipers pistons. Then I ran across THESE behemoths. Never heard of an EIGHT piston caliper setup before now. Decided to dig in and read up just out curiosity even though I was sure there's no way such a caliper would fit my wheels but then I found this video. These guys are getting these to fit inside 15 and 16" wheels. Crazy! Though the version for our cars indicates 18" or higher. I guess I can see it, since these calipers have a lot more curvature and seem to mount closer to the center of the rotor than brembos and other typical 4+ piston setups. Just wish I had a local shop (Houston area) that sells their stuff so I could go try a test fit before buying. $2k is pretty steep for something that you're not sure will fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revan Posted February 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Also, for anyone looking to put Shelby GT or GTH lettering on their calipers, thanks go to our very own ITHERTZ for figuring out the exact font and size for the stripes to use (I read your entire GTH blog. Excellent stuff!) Shouldn't be too difficult to lower the font size to fit what you need to make a stencil for caliper painting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITHERTZ66 Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Troy Do they come with the solid brake line pieces that transfers the fluid from one side of the calipers to the other? I see they're plugged in the picture and didn't see anything in the description about it. If not where would you get that piece? Possibly at the dealer Since these are listed as a replacement part and not an upgrade they might expect you to transfer that piece off the old caliper. Just curious. I know the pic is a newer version of the brembo, but you can see the line I'm speaking of that moves the fluid to the pistons on the other side. Good question. The description from the part I ordered indicates it's a complete fully assembled set - including pads (which also aren't pictured). Here's part of the description: 100% pressure testing guarantees that every caliper will function properly on the vehicle. Fully assembled brake caliper comes with all hardware and severe-duty, high-performance brake pads for quick, easy installation and smooth, quiet performance. New copper washers are included for a perfect seal. Plastic cap plug in brake port line protects threads before installation. http://www.carid.com/2007-ford-mustang-brake-parts/a1-cardone-disc-brake-caliper-45332341.html http://www.carid.com/2007-ford-mustang-brake-parts/a1-cardone-disc-brake-caliper-45332342.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurgan Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 It also says "without bracket" whatever that means. I would not assume they came with that hard line connecting the two sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuLu Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 Okay, let's get into some of the finer points of our brake system. Before we start, keep one thought in mind. Being a trained nurse doesn't make one a doctor. Being an experienced cop with a lot of court time doesn't make one a lawyer. Finally, being an experienced wrench doesn't make one a certified technician (mechanic). I am an experienced wrench who began his hobby at age 14, the summer of 1966. I am retired from a career of over 30 years in a highly technical and dangerous field, but I kept busy with my hobby too, and it comforts me today. When i post my views, I will be wrong, just point that out with respect and back it up with fact, and I will apologize. Personal attacks drove me away from this site years ago, and I would like to try it again. Please disagree with me, but don't be an ash hole. That said; "Dots and slots". What's up with this? Over the years, I have changed my position on them, sometimes twice. I have flipped back and forth about the benefits of, or "need" of, cross drilled and slotted rotors. My position today is that, cosmetically speaking, they look good. Really dress up the brakes, and the car as a whole. Function is another value. I like the slots, but not all designs are the same. There are straight slots, called "vanes", which are valuable in venting hot gasses produced by high torque braking, while resurfacing the rotor with every revolution. They discharge the steam and dust (along with road debris and water), keeping the surface of the rotor making contact with the brake pad fresh. There are curved slots too, which do the same thing, i have seen a few "squiggly" snake like designs, but all share one shortcoming that must be addressed by the design. To be high function, the slots must terminate by cutting through to the edge of the rotor to allow gas and debris to be discharged. My observation of the market show that an alarming number of popular rotors do not terminate this way. If there is no exit gate, debris cannot flush out, and hazards the slots are supposed to discharge remain in place. The whole mess backs up and now you are skating on thin ice. Imagine if you will, your tires hydro planning over standing water. The pedal gets numb, the feedback shouts danger and you push harder. The pads go for a bumpy ride over an uneven surface and wear unevenly. Sometimes they stink too, of something burning. Continue this deficiency over a period of time and you will spend more money trying to fix the side effect. Therefore, slots are good, but must have an exit gate, or they are (functionally speaking) worthless, IMHO. "Dots" or cross drilled rotors are another argument. First, the "dots". Some rotor suppliers sell you the appearance of cross drilling. It's not a real hole, just a dimple filled with black (or your choice of color) paint. How much rice is too much? Again, just more real estate collecting debris without an exit, same as some slots described above. The real dots are cross drilled through and through, and remain unworthy of any praise they may garner, IMHO. The drilling is post casting, not a part of the forged iron manufacturing process. The drilling is high pressure for assembly line speed, and all the holes are drilled at once. This will lead to cracks in the rotor which will grow larger with every heated or high speed application of the brakes. If everything else in your brake system is operating at 80-100 percent efficiency, eventually the rotor will fail and chunk apart once the cracks connect with each other. Just because you cannot see the cracks with the naked eye from 2 feet doesn't mean they are not present, and for two reasons. Who among us inspect the backside of the rotor? And, who among us pull the system down every 6 months or so, to wash off the rotor and removed the camouflage of debris pressed into the cracks under enormous pressure as described above? A show of hands, please. Dots and cross drilled rotors look very cool (excuse the pun, eh?) and the sales pitch is just that. We are tutored by the sales pitch that cross drilling allows for venting of hot gasses and allows cool air in. Perhaps this is true, I am sure the inter web is littered with honest research justifying the practice, and I bought into it myself for many years. However, once I started serious racing, rotor failure forced me to reconsider how much rotor real estate was removed by cross drilling. Thus the change of heart, I value the real estate over the appearance. So...cosmetically speaking, your brake system can add a lot of sparkle to your pride and joy, but "dots" just tell others what you don't know about brakes. "Slots" (or vanes) have no value if they do not terminate with, or, provide an exit gate. "Cross drilling" has some functional value, but you have to decide for yoursellf. BTW...my 2014 Ford Racing catalogue offers only three brake kits. Two are rotor upgrade kits, both are plain. The third is a replacement rotor ring only, it has straight vanes. What's up with this? I think FRPP is teaching us something. This has been fun, let's keep it that way. Y'all be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuLu Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 It also says "without bracket" whatever that means. I would not assume they came with that hard line connecting the two sides. Part of the bracket is the spindle, another bracket attaches to the assembly. If you cannot carry over these parts, you have to go shopping. I believe the fluid crossover is internal now. A good tight seal on the halves is required, or, you leak, just like OEM brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJ Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 It also says "without bracket" whatever that means. I would not assume they came with that hard line connecting the two sides. The Brembo's actually do not use a bracket, where the stock Ford calipers do, which allows for the floating. So really kind of verbiage which is not needed on the Brembo caliper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITHERTZ66 Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 This pic shows the Cardone part above and the Brenbo below. Obviously the same casting. Curiously, the location of the bleeders and lack of crossover tube. Wonder how to verify if it's internal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 It's not an internal crossover - it's the same caliper (Boss 302/GT500). It just doesn't come with the crossover tube or the anti-rattle plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyBlueHeaven Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Part of the bracket is the spindle, another bracket attaches to the assembly. If you cannot carry over these parts, you have to go shopping. I believe the fluid crossover is internal now. A good tight seal on the halves is required, or, you leak, just like OEM brakes. It's not an internal crossover - it's the same caliper (Boss 302/GT500). It just doesn't come with the crossover tube or the anti-rattle plate. Thank you Albino, you can clearly see they are plugged with the green plastic caps to protect it in the pics on the O'reilly's site (attached pic), and not an internal cross over. Sorry LuLu I have to disagree with that one. These are the old 4 piston brembos not the new 6 piston, those are the ones that are now internal, and are mono-block which is how they are able to keep it internal and not have to worry about leaks. Again I looked at the O'reilly's site which calls this a replacement caliper. Maybe it's me but that would lead me to believe it won't come with the said pieces and expects you to transfer them off the old one you're replacing. Thanks for the insight on the rotors LuLu, and good info about the rotors, I was always under the impression that vanes would provide some help. I heard a lot of people that had cross drilled rotors say their rotors cracked under hard/heavy braking when track driving because the cross drilling weakens the rotor. Only going by what they said, def not providing any kind of fact. I remember reading all the negative posts and people being nasty to you responding to your old posts. Good to see you back. I guess when Troy receives his parts he'll be able to put to rest a lot of the questions that we all have about the calipers, and what they will come with or without. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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