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Driver Skills Then And Now


Bruce49
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This might seem like a tirade, but I assure you it isn't. It's about curiosity. What do younthink about today's driver skills compared to those going back to the 60's?

 

I was born 66 years ago. My dad was an independent auto mechanic his entire career. He taught me to drive in his 55 Ford Victoria when I was 12. Then starting at 13 until 20, I got to work on and drive all those muscle cars that most drool over today. Plymouth Barracuda, GTO, Corvette, Chevy SS 396, Buick Riviera, etc, etc.

 

Back then, you truly drove a car. You were more involved And, IMO, not like today's cars that are more like video game cars... I've noticed that skills have gotten much worse with the average driver. Stab in and steer mentality.

 

How many of you have taken your cars out on a really bad weather day, found a vacant parking lot and put the car and yourself through its paces? Then with every member of your family with their cars? Why you ask? Simple answer really: to know what your cars can do, or not do, in a controlled environment rather than try to figuremit out in an uncontrolled situation.

 

Today, most anyone can get a drivers license. And to think that theyrenout therecon the streets with me and my loved ones is truly frightening. Especially considering the pieces of crap they bought for pennies on the dollar and have no business being on the road. And that goes for the driver and the car...

 

I was always taught that driving is a privilege and not a right. Seems most have forgotten that concept.

 

Opinions?

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This might seem like a tirade, but I assure you it isn't. It's about curiosity. What do younthink about today's driver skills compared to those going back to the 60's?

 

I was born 66 years ago. My dad was an independent auto mechanic his entire career. He taught me to drive in his 55 Ford Victoria when I was 12. Then starting at 13 until 20, I got to work on and drive all those muscle cars that most drool over today. Plymouth Barracuda, GTO, Corvette, Chevy SS 396, Buick Riviera, etc, etc.

 

Back then, you truly drove a car. You were more involved And, IMO, not like today's cars that are more like video game cars... I've noticed that skills have gotten much worse with the average driver. Stab in and steer mentality.

 

How many of you have taken your cars out on a really bad weather day, found a vacant parking lot and put the car and yourself through its paces? Then with every member of your family with their cars? Why you ask? Simple answer really: to know what your cars can do, or not do, in a controlled environment rather than try to figuremit out in an uncontrolled situation.

 

Today, most anyone can get a drivers license. And to think that theyrenout therecon the streets with me and my loved ones is truly frightening. Especially considering the pieces of crap they bought for pennies on the dollar and have no business being on the road. And that goes for the driver and the car...

 

I was always taught that driving is a privilege and not a right. Seems most have forgotten that concept.

 

Opinions?

 

I agree 100% Bruce...

 

Rick Titus came to one of our NorCal events a few years back and gave a talk about his experience as a auto journalist and some third party verification he does as part of those duties. In the specific story he talked about testing a Chevy Tahoe and was puposely putiing it into slides and evasive manuevers, and at the conclusion of every "event", the car was shut down, and a "Onstar" lady would come online...the joke being he now had an online relationship with this person..

 

The disconcerting part about the it is, the vehicle is rendered useless as it goes into a shutdown mode, not allowing the driver to do simple tasks. I've encountered the same thing in my wifes 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the distance control applying brakes while I was making a maneuver which scared the bejesus out of me.

 

Many cars are being equipped with "nanny" features and the tasks being automated (cars that self park) Really?!, I took my driver test in a Suburban, and parallel parked that tub perfectly within 6" of the curb on the first attempt. The first car I drove was my dads 1967 GT-A Mustang Fastback, I was 13 years old...

 

They let anyone get a license (even so-called undocumented types), and after a lame 5 minute drive around the block, off you go. Not so in Germany, big money, and many hours before you are given the priviledge (thats why the Autobahn works there and not here)

 

TD

Edited by Cali_KR
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  1.  

     

    That is a really interesting topic which I am sure will generate a wide range of perspectives. Anyone who drove any of the 60s vehicles(sedans, pony cars, whatever) knows that they were a joke compared to what we drive in 2015. 60s cars were all rear wheel drive which did make them much more fun to drive. Their lack of road holding did add a dimension of drifting(steering by modulating the gas pedal) back then that was far more readily available than it is in todays vehicles with computer designed suspension geometry, decreased unsprung weight and radial tires. A spirited driver back in the day needed to have a full tool box of driving skills to make the grade. It was really fun then but I have no desire to ever pilot one of those old jack ass carts on a regular basis again.

 

 

You can let the old car v new car debate go...you seem to have this unhealthy obsession about it...

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Driver aids in todays cars are a direct result of history showing that most drivers need aids to idiot proof the experience and try to keep it safe. The problem today is there happens to be other technology which exists now to distract drivers from actually driving a car (i.e. texting on mobile phones). I do not think the people who drive today are any more or less capable of driving a car than they were in the 60's. It's just different all around.

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The old vs new car "debate" that you perceive appears to be a problem for you, not me. There is no logical debate when one compares vehicles with 50 years of technological advancements vs. those from the middle of the last century. I'm all for you having your perspectives here and am puzzled by a guy like yourself who is attempting to suppress mine. What"s up with that Dude? Enjoy!

Fairly certain it's not your ideas, but more the tone in which you choose to express them which raises a few eyebrows. I find most of your posts are logical once you get past the tone in which they are written. Food for thought... :whistling:

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You can let the old car v new car debate go...you seem to have this unhealthy obsession about it...

You missed the mark hoss. This is NOT about old car vs. new car. It's about the degradation of driver skills from then until now.

 

An example: with my dad's business, when it snowed or got cold enough, he would get called with someone saying their car would not start. Off we went in truly dangerousmsnowing conditions and try to start the car. If it started, great. If not, it was towed by chain or pushed. When we got close to the garage, my dadnwould get the dead car rolling with me trying to steer it around a corner and into the garage and get it to stop a foot from the work bench. Try doing that in a Pontiac Bonneville with no power steering and no power brakes with wet boots and only 13-15 years of age. Needless to say, it's a trip. And all of these cars were a solid axle, brake drums and shoes and hard to control.

 

My KR is frankly not safe compared to most cars on the street today. The Goodyear tires suck. The suspension is not where it should be. It has a solid axle. And it has way too much HP for today's roadways. But, I believe my background permits me to drive a car like this as well as, if not better than, my drivers and cars out there today.

 

Yes, cars today are nanny proof. Lane avoidance, stop avoidance, speed control, etc etc. Like I said, the "art" of driving today is this: if you can drive a car in a video game, you too can have a drivers license. It's an insult to the human species.

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One of you mentioned safety improvements. It goes to too many electronic distractions for inexperienced drivers. When I was hit Christmas eve it was due to a young man on his earbuds looking down at his phone and didn't realize he let off the brake of a Surburban 1500 LT. Nav, radio, cell phones, radar detectors, putting on makeup, HUD, all this crap. It's a distraction that causes accidents. So what does the NTSB do? Nanny controls to protect them from us or visa versa. It a shame. If you get behind the wheel: Drive!

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I learned to drive in a 1963 International pickup with three on the floor. At the time I lived on a farm in Nebraska so I was able to drive back and forth to town, school etc. I learned a lot in that old truck. I learned what happened when I hit the brakes doing 50 on a dirt road...I ended up sliding sideways in a cornfield. I learned that putting it in first gear and flooring it around a corner would land me in a culvert. I later moved on to other vehicles to include a 66 Impala and 67 Cougar. I honed my skills on the dirt roads of Nebraska in that Impala and learned how to race in that Cougar. Yes, they were old and unsophisticated compared to today's cars, but I have no doubt that I'd be the driver I am today if I hadn't had those great classics to learn the ropes in.

 

Today's cars are pretty much stupid proof and within the next decade we won't need to worry too much about bad drivers because the cars will be doing all the driving. This has both positive and negative aspects. On the positive side, cars will be safer and drivers will need to worry less about accidents, lane changing issues, collision issues, braking issues and so on. On the negative side, drivers will become too dependent on technology to save their stupid butts and those around them.

 

At some point the human race will be totally dependent on technology to do every menial task and at some point we're going to pay dearly for that. I know it sounds like science fiction, but if we look back at the past, how many far-retched scifi inventions and incidents have lead to reality? Look around you, there are too many to count.

 

AK.

 

PS: I'm still amazed at the amount of bickering and insults some of you toss around on this forum. Is it not possible to to have a thread where someone isn't making an ass out of themselves...not here it seems.

 

Good thread Bruce, no matter where you've put it.

Edited by AlaskanKR
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I learned to drive in a 1963 International pickup with three on the floor. At the time I lived on a farm in Nebraska so I was able to drive back and forth to town, school etc. I learned a lot in that old truck. I learned what happened when I hit the brakes doing 50 on a dirt road...I ended up sliding sideways in a cornfield. I learned that putting it in first gear and flooring it around a corner would land me in a culvert. I later moved on to other vehicles to include a 66 Impala and 67 Cougar. I honed my skills on the dirt roads of Nebraska in that Impala and learned how to race in that Cougar. Yes, they were old and unsophisticated compared to today's cars, but I have no doubt that I'd be the driver I am today if I hadn't had those great classics to learn the ropes in.

 

Today's cars are pretty much stupid proof and within the next decade we won't need to worry too much about bad drivers because the cars will be doing all the driving. This has both positive and negative aspects. On the positive side, cars will be safer and drivers will need to worry less about accidents, lane changing issues, collision issues, braking issues and so on. On the negative side, drivers will become too dependent on technology to save their stupid butts and those around them.

 

At some point the human race will be totally dependent on technology to do every menial task and at some point we're going to pay dearly for that. I know it sounds like science fiction, but if we look back at the past, how many far-retched scifi inventions and incidents have lead to reality? Look around you, there are too many to count.

 

AK.

 

PS: I'm still amazed at the amount of bickering and insults some you guys toss around on this forum. Is it not possible to to have a thread where someone isn't making an ass out of themselves...not here it seems.

 

Good thread Bruce, no matter where you've put it.

+ 1 and the PS POINT EVEN BETTER

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Good topic.

 

The vast majority of people now and in the 60s viewed cars as merely transportation I believe. They had no interest in pushing the car or there skills to the limit. A minority view cars as more than mere transportation now and then.

 

Driving a car fast at the limits is all about physics and understanding how it affects the car. Today's automotive nannies make cars safer for the average driver that has no interest in learning car control at the limits.

 

Those nannies are a back seat driver for those that do have true driving skill in some respects such as traction control or abs. Some nannies do improve safety for all for those occasions we are inattentive. It happens to everyone.

 

The only way to learn true car control is seat time driving at the limit or close to it. Insruction with that is a bonus.

 

I spent 5 days in the Bertil Roos race school learning how to drive at the limit in Formula Fords. I learned how much I didn't know about how to really drive and gained tremendous respect for those who race at high levels. It is WAY harder than it looks to be fast. Way harder. Any monkey with a brick tied to his foot can go fast on a straightaway. Read Ross Bentleys book Speed Secrets. Most people don't have that level of interest in learning car control. Then and now but today cars are smatter to help save the unskilled.

Edited by REAL ONE
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Good topic.

 

The vast majority of people now and in the 60s viewed cars as merely transportation I believe. They had no interest in pushing the car or there skills to the limit. A minority view cars as more than mere transportation now and then.

 

Driving a car fast at the limits is all about physics and understanding how it affects the car. Today's automotive nannies make cars safer for the average driver that has no interest in learning car control at the limits.

 

Those nannies are a back seat driver for those that do have true driving skill in some respects such as traction control or abs. Some nannies do improve safety for all for those occasions we are inattentive. It happens to everyone.

 

The only way to learn true car control is seat time driving at the limit or close to it. Insruction with that is a bonus.

 

I spent 5 days in the Bertil Roos race school learning how to drive at the limit in Formula Fords. I learned how much I didn't know about how to really drive and gained tremendous respect for those who race at high levels. It is WAY harder than it looks to be fast. Way harder. Any monkey with a brick tied to his foot can go fast on a straightaway. Read Ross Bentleys book Speed Secrets. Most people don't have that level of interest in learning car control. Then and now but today cars are smatter to help save the unskilled.

+1 Well said.

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For a little while I was wondering if 3 of the posters / trolls in this very thread were the same person. I'm not convinced of that anymore, I'm just convinced that some people could stand to use their time a little more efficiently.

I'm not sure this thread really covers the reason why people think the road is full of idiots....well, it is but still. For one, so many people are convinced that they are fit to be good parents and they want kids, now there are more people on the road by far than ever. I for one make sure that I am actively aware of my driving at all times - and when the time comes for a more powerful car I probably will strongly consider driving lessons first. I also think that most people couldn't care less about their driving ability; these are the people we especially hate.

Oh, and cell phones sure did put a dent in average driver ability!

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You are obviously a boom'er, with a pretty low opinion of the next generation. Sad. Unless you were a silver spoon, I'd bet your first car was a piece of shit too...which also makes you a hypocrite. I'm sure a much higher percentage of drivers are getting their license after formal driver's ed training today than 50 years ago (as you noted for yourself), so I don't get WTF you are getting at.

 

I can't help but notice the underlying tone to your comments though, which leads me to these thoughts...

 

Probably shouldn't surprise you that an informed younger generation actually has good intuitive perception and doesn't have much respect for the boom'er either. My first enlightenment to this was at the young age of 19. My friend worked in a car wash when we were in college. During a generic conversation about me saying how nice it must be to drive a nice car every once and a while, he told me that there was a lot about the job that sucked too. The most suck was cleaning the old guys' cars that he had to wipe the phlegm chunks off their gauges.

 

It was an interesting story that stuck with me, and I was able to expand on this concept through my own specific observations of "The Greatest Generation".

 

Next time you're around boom'ers in a convenience store or restaurant, notice how they never cover their mouths...even if their hands are free to do so. Notice how they never say "excuse me", "bless you", or even "thank you" for holding the door for them. Notice how they never hold the door for others (except perhaps for someone of their similar age). Listen to them talk, and the subtle cues that hint at their self-absorbed opinion of them being the best generation this country has ever seen (ref: Bruce49, comment #1, "Driver Skills Then and Now").

 

I could go on at great length about how the boom'er generation poisoned our earth at the sole expense of turning a profit. And I'm not even a tree-hugger...just a person who has a lot of specific knowledge about vintage industrial properties and the extend of damage that generation caused (and please, save the "we didn't know any better at the time" bullshit excuse).

 

Truth is though, the cock and swagger belongs in my generation now. Seeing boom'ers talk or act like that is a joke to the younger generation. I hope that my generation will recognize when it's time to allow the next generation to inherit the cock and swagger. And since it's their SS deposits from their hard labor that are providing for my SS checks, I'll humbly keep my mouth shut and not disrespect them for allowing me to sit on my ass after a hard-worked life.

 

So your point is??????

 

Are you saying the "Greatest Generation" doesn't deserve that label?

 

You seem to paint with a very broad brush. l'm a boomer and last I checked I cover my mouth when I cough, hold the door for others and say bless you when others sneeze.

 

 

 

It all depends on how you are raised. In fact, I perceive todays generations as being lazy and having a sense of entitlement. That's my broad brush.

 

What generation are you?

Edited by REAL ONE
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I can't believe I'm actually going to respond to stupidity: this is a first for me, but I somehow managed to give a damn about one comment. So:

 

I think it is just pathetic to take credit for something you did not personally do, but rather your "generation" did. Nothing else for anything else from me.

 

But seriously, :violin: and :backtotopic:

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I wasn't, but since you're asking the answer is no, they don't. It's an Elitist label...not to mention undeserving IMO.

 

I'd like to know why you think your generation serves such an incredible accolade. Is it WWII? Pretty incredible to win 2 wars at one time, but you're not giving ANY credit to those who served in wars after WWII who still fight and die to provide your freedom today.

 

There's very little in the private sector that is deserving of the title. The Industrial Revolution before you was much more impressive for size, scale, and creation of the middle class. Your generation was the tail end of that and is the reason manufacturing disappeared from this country. You didn't reinvest in equipment or education, didn't adapt to a global market, dumped toxic waste in everyone's backyards then walked away from the resulting problems, and put companies big and small out of business with inflated pensions that are being paid for by the next generation(s).

 

Our horrible public education system is still teaching at the 1950's level. But thank god for the current trend of charter schools which is finally changing our archaic way of learning, and yes, that's a product of MY generation.

 

Care to take on any of those subjects?

Sure I'll take on those subjects.

 

Referring to the generation that dealt with the Nazi/Axis threat is an elitist attitude? Undeserving? Pray tell, why so? If you don't think so you obviously don't know history or understand why that generation is referred to as such, not by that generation but those that came after it. If it wasn't for that generation the free world would not now exist and national socialism would be the order of the day and the world would be a much different place. Perhaps you would have preferred that?

 

Yes, others fought wars thereafter but none on the scale of WWII and none fighting an organized militarized world threat pushing genocide. Yes, those that still fight today deserve accolades and respect just as much but we are talking about a generation that sacrificed to in essence save the planet from an evil on the march and which was winning at one point. I'd say that qualifies as deserving the label of the "Greatest Generation" in my book. In fact but for that generation you may not have even been here today and likely wouldn't be enjoying what you have now.

 

No one said anything about the "private sector" deserving that title from any generation. You need to read more carefully and obviously have no clue as the reason why that accolade is bestowed on WWII veterans and that it is nearly universally accepted by all today when we talk about the people of the that "generation" who served. Almost universally anyway. We now know at least one guy that doesn't think so. The generation of the 1940s is referred to as the greatest generation because of their sacrifice in saving the free world in WWII not because of any private sector accomplishments or lack thereof after the war.

 

Please also provide the factual proofs regarding your statements regarding failure of industrial investment, dumping toxic waste, putting companies out of business with pension plans. Sounds like you have no idea what you are talking about so enlighten us with facts and info as opposed to hyperbole and "opinion". Lets have it.

 

Our current public education systems, has gone down hill. That part of your rant is correct but its thanks to liberal/progressivism and NEA. The current liberal mentalities including of revisionist history, everybody is equal in ability and intelligence and deserves the same with teacher pensions being totally funded by public monies and tenure regardless of merit is the center of the rot in our education system.

 

There you go.

Edited by REAL ONE
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It's pretty clear dada doesn't have a clue what the "greatest generation" moniker means. Had it not been for the greatest generation saving the worlds a$$ from the Nazi's we would all be speaking German now and there wouldn't be a Shelby.

 

It scares me to think about the boomer generation turning America over to the now 30 something generation someday. They seem to know nothing about what's going on in the world. Terrorists could detonate a nuclear bomb in New York and they would never know about it unless somebody mentioned it on facebook or maybe posted a "selfy" with the mushroom cloud in the background. I have two kids age 33 and 35, both married, and during Christmas all 4 of them sat and looked at their smart phones almost the entire time they were here. It's disturbing to see what is happening and what my grandkids are going to inherit from their parents...

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the old muscle cars, by definition, were not as technologically sophisticated as today's and therefore, required more care when driving. my father's modified '68 barracuda formula s would barely stay on the road when you goosed the throttle and missing shift and over-revving the engine was very common. they also had no air-conditioning, all vinyl bench seating, lap seat belts only, no power steering, no power brakes (drums in rear), or power windows! they were fun for going fast in a straight line (once the carburetor decided to work and the engine warmed up), but gas mileage sucked, comfort sucked, and driving them required real physical effort. however, you should always respect your elders. those cars demanded it and there is no substitute for the whole experience you get by driving one. it's purely mechanical and 100% engaging with a real soundtrack. even the odor of unleaded fuel was part of it. one day, the kids of today will tell similar stories about today's cars....

Edited by 2007red40thGT500
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OK Back on topic ....I am 67 and drove and raced 60's thru 70's top 4 muscle cars... Back then Drivers were more skilled and less reliant on computers ...Today point and go....Back with the ford/chev/dodge and Plymouths we drivers learned on back roads and tracks.....I cannot remember when anybody spoke about the drivers ability as much as we do today....Geeeze just look at the high number of Asian drivers that have no clue on what to do in case of emergency. The lack of common sense is I think the major missing point....When I fired up any of my cars I did not have nag/cell/ipod/etc...I just had a am radio and the power of my ride.....Today people bring everything in the car and think they are still sitting on the sofa......In those 20 years I know of 2 men who died driving what they could not handle... Today Crashes are all over the internet....Why....Lots of power ... NO SKILL.........

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yeah, but can you really blame today's drivers? your experience was forged by the technology of the day. so is that of today's drivers. for safety reasons, control has been shifted to the car itself, rather than the driver such that computers eliminate much of the skill that was required in the past. they might not be as skilled a driver, but it's not necessarily their fault, either.

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It would be interesting to hear from a driver's school perspective...The skills that new drivers require are the same as drivers in any early years...The car has changed ..YES.. But drivers today seem not to understand the basics of defensive driving.....The faster they go .. the faster they think they can stop....The tuners are of a very young age. What experience do they have when good goes bad???

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Since you're focused on WWII so much, I should probably remind you that, unless YOU are 80 years old, you are simply a love-child by-product of returning servicemen from WWII (hence, where the "baby boom" term actually comes from). Interesting that you classify yourself as being part of the Greatest Generation, but didn't actually serve in that war...which is the one huge reason why you define yourself as being so "great".

 

 

 

The general state of the decline of manufacturing in the United States is not debatable, and is a by-product of much of what I spoke of. If you're not aware of those factors leading up to this, then I recommend you educate yourself on them.

Where did REAL ONE claim to be part of the "Greatest Generation"? I think you are mistaken.

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I have 2 sons, both of whom I consider good drivers. I did exactly what you suggested. We went to an icy parking lot (not always easy to find in Western Kentucky) and I made them drive until they could get the car across the parking lot and back sideways. It was fun, but it was also educational. To be able to teach that point at which the car breaks loose.....invaluable!

 

I also took them out and made them deliberately drop off the edge of the pavement. They learned what it felt like and how to recover without jerking the car across both lanes of traffic and hitting someone head-on. Equally invaluable!

 

BTW, a local law enforcement officer stopped us on the icy parking lot one time and I explained what we were doing and he was like, yeah, right. But he gave us the benefit of the doubt and my son showed him what he had learned.....he was cool with it.

 

Heel & toe shifting.....not as valuable, but lots of fun to do.....especially with a carbed car with which you can "blip" between gears and make the exhaust "pop"......it helps attract young ladies (personal experience), which my son's found both enlightening and entertaining!

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I learned how to drive in the midwest with a variety of cars(and trucks) with manual drum brakes on snowy and icy roads, flat and hills. Oh, and there wasn't any such thing as front wheel drive then.

 

Heel and toe shifting is not an essential skill for street driving.

 

If you really want to hone your skills get a Cobra. No power anything and it tells you every time you get it it that it is going to kill you today.

 

Driver's schools: My daughters took driver's ed, and they don't teach any defensive driving skills, e.g., skid recovery etc. Even the "drive into the three lane split and get the green lane" track thing that I had in my driver's ed class isn't used any more. That was part of the class at Bondurant though, but even Bondurant depended heavily on "nannies" for the basic class. For the advanced classes you are allowed to turn them off or leave them on at your choice. I found the car much more manageable without the nannies as it was correcting me for things that I knew I was doing.

Edited by twobjshelbys
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As far as teaching a kid how to handle a car... I think having a go-kart as a kid is a good teacher. When I was 10 years old I got a twin engine racing kart that would allegedly run 90 mph with both engines. My dad never would put both on at once so in theory it would run 45 which was plenty fast for a 10 year old. I had a dirt track all to myself, with nothing to hit... and there is nothing more fun for a kid than to go fast, do donuts, purposely spin them out and generally act crazy. I am sure my mother was a nervous wreck watching but unbeknownst to me at the time I was learning a lot about driving that would translate to driving a car a few years later. I ended up buying my kids a kart when they were young and I consider both of them excellent drivers today. At 33 and 35 neither has ever had a wreck so I guess I did something right.

Edited by blk12svt
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As far as teaching a kid how to handle a car... I think having a go-kart as a kid is a good teacher. When I was 10 years old I got a twin engine racing kart that would allegedly run 90 mph with both engines. My dad never would put both on at once so in theory it would run 45 which was plenty fast for a 10 year old. I had a dirt track all to myself, with nothing to hit... and there is nothing more fun for a kid than to go fast, do donuts, purposely spin them out and generally act crazy. I am sure my mother was a nervous wreck watching but unbeknownst to me at the time I was learning a lot about driving that would translate to driving a car a few years later. I ended up buying my kids a kart when they were young and I consider both of them excellent drivers today. At 33 and 35 neither has ever had a wreck so I guess I did something right.

+1... I grew up driving karts.

 

I learned how to drive in the midwest with a variety of cars(and trucks) with manual drum brakes on snowy and icy roads, flat and hills. Oh, and there wasn't any such thing as front wheel drive then.

 

Heel and toe shifting is not an essential skill for street driving.

 

If you really want to hone your skills get a Cobra. No power anything and it tells you every time you get it it that it is going to kill you today.

 

Driver's schools: My daughters took driver's ed, and they don't teach any defensive driving skills, e.g., skid recovery etc. Even the "drive into the three lane split and get the green lane" track thing that I had in my driver's ed class isn't used any more. That was part of the class at Bondurant though, but even Bondurant depended heavily on "nannies" for the basic class. For the advanced classes you are allowed to turn them off or leave them on at your choice. I found the car much more manageable without the nannies as it was correcting me for things that I knew I was doing.

+2.... then as a young adult I bought a replica Cobra.

 

End result = I'm not half bad at driving! ;)

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Where did REAL ONE claim to be part of the "Greatest Generation"? I think you are mistaken.

Al G. You are correct. I didn't nor did I ever elude to the fact I was part of the "Greatest Generation". I don't think I have the stuff they did.

 

However, Mr. Dada I am damn proud of them and God thankful for what they sacrificed for us and the country and the free world. My father was part of that generation and he was emblematic of that generation based on my experience with them and the many who I have met. My father closed his law practice down after Pearl Harbor. Joined the Army despite threats his first wife would divorce him if he did. He joined anyway and she divorced him. Trained in Scotland and was part of the 1st Ranger Battalion. Invasion of North Africa, Sicily, Anzio (attached to the 36th infantry division or popularly known as the "Panther Division" famous for their action on the Rapido River in Italy) and Northern France all the way to the Rhine. Purple Heart with 2 oak leaf clusters ( which is 3 Purple Hearts...he took Shrapnel twice, shot once), 4 battle stars, Bronze Arrow Head (first wave of an invasion); Bronze Star; Marksman pin; multiple scars, broken nose, field surgeries to remove a bullet and then shrapnel. Yeah, I am pretty proud of that. He remained in the Military after the war for about 3 years and then continued to donate his time and energies to the Selective Service and DAV.

 

My partner's father also highly decorated with the 29th Marine Division in the Pacific, enlisted at 17 years of age and lied his way into service so he could fight and saw combat on Okinawa and at nearly 90 is still proud of his service and still sports the Globe & Anchor tattoo on his arm.

 

Yeah, that was a special generation. They knew how to deal with the problem, didn't whine about it and did it. Many didn't come home.

 

All vets of any generation are owed unwavering support, thanks, respect and admiration and deserve WAY more than they receive from our Government but ask just about any vet or service man about the "Greatest Generation" and they will know who you are talking about. You obviously don't get it but our vets and service personnel even today get it and know.

 

I don't know what alternate history you where taught but the post WWII era was one of the most active and productive industrial eras of our country's history. Site your references that say otherwise cause I love to see them and learn something. If you are referring to the recent/contemporary trend of domestic corporations moving to foreign manufacturing you can blame the progressive/liberals for their oppressive and confiscatory tax policies both at the income level and corporate and capital gains level that has caused a contemporary exodus of manufacturing and cheap foreign labor which could be offset with favorable tax policies. Liberals can't seem to figure out they will increase revenues and investment with favorable tax policies reducing taxes rather then chasing companies and people away with confiscatory tax policy. They just don't get it. Ronald Reagan proved it.

 

BTW what generation are you part of?

 

BTW why was the topic of this thread dumb beside just because you thought it was? Explain.

Edited by REAL ONE
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