magnonreyes Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 I am going to millvile thunderbolt, but before i would like my gt500 to be align properly. does anyone have any suggestions as to camber/caster numbers, toe in? etc etc. I would greatly appreaciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barspen Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Bump...Looking for the same thing. Getting Castor\Camber plates from Santa in a few weeks. Would like suggestions for an aggressive street/track alignment. THX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 2 degrees negative camber max positive caster ( equal on both sides for track - usually around 7 degrees positive ) 0 toe to 1/16" total toe out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barspen Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 THX Albino! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Barry, Make sure that they put your weight in the drivers seat when they do the alignment (I've never seen a car go around the track without the driver). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HARALD KELLEY Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Love it. The science part of racing that is. OK, going fast is also fun. The techy aspects of racing has always intrigued me. So much to consider besides just driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSGT500 Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 My preference on my car is to run toe in. I tried toe out and the car felt loose at higher speeds. The thinking behind running toe out on a track is it helps get the wheels turned in a little sooner at corner entry. From my experience, a better way to accomplish that is to take some caster out. One of the results of higher caster angles is it makes the car more stable in a straight line. That makes the car feel heavier when turning in. I took some caster out of my car and it turns in quicker. I don't run 7 degrees, probably closer to 5. Another important thing to check is thrust angle. The closer to zero, the better. You can check it yourself with a string line and tape measure. The goal is to make sure the wheelbase measurements are identical on both sides of the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barspen Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 Thx SSGT500. My next goal is to find a shop in Phoenix that can comprehend any of this. Asking for referrals from car enthusiasts around town and they have a scared look on their face. One of my buddies said his shop "does it the old fashion way..." and "get's it close". I'm thinking, while I hit 110+ down a strait and enter a super sharp turn, I cant have it "close"....It needs to be SOLID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSGT500 Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 Here's a link to alignment specs with some other information. I tried 2 degrees of camber on my car an it's ok for a road course but felt a little wobbly on the street. 1.5 degrees felt better on the street and is at the edge of the factory spec. You can play with the caster by feedback. If you want the car to feel more stable in a straight line, add caster. If you want it to turn easier decrease it. It's a balancing act. You can also adjust it from side to side to some extent if the steering drifts to one side. http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/alignment-suspension-specs-2005-10-ford-mustang-plus-shelby/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 My preference on my car is to run toe in. I tried toe out and the car felt loose at higher speeds. The thinking behind running toe out on a track is it helps get the wheels turned in a little sooner at corner entry. From my experience, a better way to accomplish that is to take some caster out. One of the results of higher caster angles is it makes the car more stable in a straight line. That makes the car feel heavier when turning in. I took some caster out of my car and it turns in quicker. I don't run 7 degrees, probably closer to 5. Another important thing to check is thrust angle. The closer to zero, the better. You can check it yourself with a string line and tape measure. The goal is to make sure the wheelbase measurements are identical on both sides of the car. Sorry but I disagree on your setup. You must be pretty creative to be able to get down to 5 degrees positive caster because most C/C plates only provide with around .75 of a degree range of change. Thrust angle is at the rear axle where you are trying to adjust the 2 independent rear toe angles to be balanced out to match the vehicles centerline which doesn't necessarily mean that the independent wheel bases will be equal - also if you have a spread in caster in the front this in itself cause a difference in wheelbase. JMO But, Hey that's why they call it theory not fact as far as alignments go - a lot of ever changing variables under a varieties of conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSGT500 Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 The caster camber plates that I'm familiar with for the 05-14 mustang allow about 1 degree of caster adjustment. There is allowance in the factory k-member for caster adjustment. You have slot the mount. Take a look at the article I first linked to. http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/alignment-suspension-specs-2005-10-ford-mustang-plus-shelby/ . It describes how it's done. It's also possible to alter the caster setting with a BMR k member by moving the k-member around, provided you have firewall clearance for the supercharger. Most cars run 3-5 degrees of caster. The 05-14 Mustangs are unusual at 7 degrees. Perhaps that's because Ford put so much rubber in the suspension. The more caster you put in, the more the wheels want to track straight ahead and the less they want to turn. More caster also equals more steering effort. My 07 GT500 with 5 degrees of caster steers as easy as my 08 V6 with 7 degrees. That's despite the GT500 having much more weight up front and wider tires. I met a guy who didn't buy a GT500 because he didn't like the heavy steering feel. That could have been improved with alignment. Toe in has a similar effect, especially when the vehicle hits a bump. Toe in will usually make a car track straighter. Toe out will usually make the tires more inclined to turn. My opinion with running toe in on a Mustang is also because of the effect it has on the steering linkage. With the linkage ahead of the front wheel center line, toe in will cause inward pressure on the steering linkage. That will compress any clearances in the assembly. Toe out will have the opposite effect and stretch out those clearances. It seems to me that setting a car up with toe out in order to make it turn in quicker and then running 7 degrees of caster is one angle working against another. Why put caster in to make the car straight line and then toe out to make it turn? Simply run less caster and toe in. You'll get less steering effort with the benefit of faster turn in as a car with less caster will want to turn in quicker. You're confusing thrust angle on a solid axle Mustang with toe adjustment on an independent rear axle. Thrust angle on a 05-14 Mustang is simply making sure the front and rear axles are parallel to each other. Bad things happen when the thrust angle is off. You can prove this to yourself by adjusting your front k-member for an uneven wheel base and taking the car over 125 mph. Let me know if you can read the speedo because the entire car will be shaking. How bad it shakes depends on how far off the thrust angle is from zero. The front and rear tires will be fighting each other. You will also be able to feel this effect to a lesser degree at lower speeds as the car will ride smoother. Uneven caster/camber settings from side to side are common on cars that drive on crowned roads. That where cross camber and cross caster settings come into play. It's usually about 1/4 degree difference. Too much negative camber can cause problems on a street driven car and to some extent on a track car. Negative camber can cause a car to feel loose in the front end. It can also cause uneven braking in a straight line because the inside of the tire is being loaded more than the outside. On a Mustang, you can adjust camber with a cam type strut bolt or two without using plates. Here's a tech article from tire rack. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=4 Here's another useful one. http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 You may want to go back over and read the Tire Rack article - notice that it refers to making the adjustment of the rear axle. Also you may want to read up on "scrub radius" and it's effects. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSGT500 Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 I don't need to re-read anything. I got it right the first time. Scrub radius? Let's keep it relevant. Barry asked for street/track alignment advice. What's he going to do, stop by his local alignment shop and ask them to calculate/adjust his scrub radius? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Barspen (Barry) and magnonreyes got my reply in post #3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Have to Agree with AB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barspen Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Ended up going with 1.7* of negative camber based on chatting with the guy who setup my car at the speed shop. Wanted to be a little more conservative on the negative camber for better street manners and tire wear. Toe was spot-on at zero. Max positive castor, but I believe he backed off the driver side just a bit to compensate for any drifting left (cant remember the details on that part). Tracked the car last weekend and it felt much better. Finally didn't feel like I was fighting the car through more complex turns. Drives strait as an arrow on the street. Appreciate the guidance on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Glad to hear that you are happy with your car and found a shop to work with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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