Madlock Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 It's over in all but the rarest of production vehicles - especially in the U.S. due to the CAFE mandates. Anything Ford may do in the future with a VIN will be Coyote/Roadrunner based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 It's over in all but the rarest if production vehicles - and especially in the U.S. due to the CAFE mandates.yes indeed. If anyone wants A Big block, they better go out and purchase a 2014 GT500 before it's too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 Besides that, the 5.8 L motor will not fit between the strut towers on the new 2015 Mustang platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 yes indeed. If anyone wants A Big block, they better go out and purchase a 2014 GT500 before it's too late. Amen - x3. But we only told the wife about 2.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 Amen - x3. But we only told the wife about 2.... so do you have 2 GT500's on order? I see in your signature that they are both white with red stripes. That's the same color as my wife's GT500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertlane Posted November 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 Besides that, the 5.8 L motor will not fit between the strut towers on the new 2015 Mustang platform. That doesn't mean a large displacement engine option for the Mustang is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 That doesn't mean a large displacement engine option for the Mustang is dead. All I know is what I have been told. The big block 5.8 in the Mustang is no longer an option. The 5.0 is a large motor and a lot can be done with it. Put a super charger on it and you get over 600 hp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertlane Posted November 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 It's over in all but the rarest of production vehicles - especially in the U.S. due to the CAFE mandates. Anything Ford may do in the future with a VIN will be Coyote/Roadrunner based. Someone has not told GM or Chrysler this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 Someone has not told GM or Chrysler this. GM wouldn't know to wipe itself if someone else didn't remind it - and then pay for the toilet paper. Chrysler's hardly more astute. As much as Ford has invested toward wringing more from less displacement across all ranges, I don't see it suddenly switching directions and using the lower demand from more displacement tactic GM is trying on its trucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperNC Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 http://inventory.crossroadsfordindiantrail.com/crossroadsford/details/2014-Ford-Mustang-Shelby-GT500/1ZVBP8JZ7E5261651/ Here is that Sterling Gray Metallic GT500 I mentioned earlier.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VNMSNK Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 The SGM is a nice stealthy color. I bought my 14 Grabber Blue vert in August. I really wanted a white/blue stripe like my 12 was; however, the opportunity was there so I took it. Just a reverse color scheme. I love this car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertlane Posted November 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 GM wouldn't know to wipe itself if someone else didn't remind it - and then pay for the toilet paper. ^ I wouldn't go that far - the Camaro is kicking up some serious sales and the Z28 is a serious expression of what the Camaro team can deliver. All of this is good because competition creates better products OR exposes the not so good ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldcuts113 Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 you'll see the 5.0 liter supercharged or twin turbo's, less HP than the 5.8, but the 15's are lighter. I'm sure they won't release a higher HP in 15, probably 16, etc. CAFE is limiting across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 you'll see the 5.0 liter supercharged or twin turbo's, less HP than the 5.8, but the 15's are lighter. I'm sure they won't release a higher HP in 15, probably 16, etc. CAFE is limiting across the board. Wouldn't count on twin turbo necessarily being down on power - or the 5.0 being opened up further. I for one am hooked on superchargers' snarl, whine and grunt like crack and heroin combined, but a TT can go like hell just as well if not better. The biggest dilemma will be how hermetically sealed Ford has made EcoBoost as a unit - which isn't nearly as well-suited to the aftermarket. The 3.5L V6 is already an absolute pisser with 85% max torque on tap from 1,500 RPM, but pretty-much only Livernois has wrung much more - and only a little bit by comparison. Hopefully the Cobra Jet work wasn't all in one man's head and greater things will be soon to come. But in the meantime, I'd expect Ford to err on the side of fuel economy and whatever warranty risk they're willing to bear, especially going from the VERY different worlds of its D3/4 EcoBoost products into outright full-on performance cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubbsFaris Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 All that may be true, but a couple years down the line, if Ford did a big block limited run Mach 1, CAFE standards won't matter if they are produced in less than 3k units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyKR664 Posted November 26, 2013 Report Share Posted November 26, 2013 I just finished reading the December edition of Car and Driver. They state on page 45 under "A Stable Full of Wild Horses" the company (Ford) will continue to offer Ford's "Trinity" Supercharged 5.8-liter V8 making 662 horses. Ford has additional power train options for two more hi-po nameplates." Am I interpreting this to mean the 5.8 ltr will be offered in the 2015 Stang? They go on to say they will offer a twin Turbo V8 "Voodoo"and an EcoBoost V8 for the GT350. The last part of that paragraph stated " Ford is desperate to discontinue the costly and thirsty Trinity" ????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted November 26, 2013 Report Share Posted November 26, 2013 5.8 L big block Will not fit between the strut towers on the 2015 Mustang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldcuts113 Posted November 26, 2013 Report Share Posted November 26, 2013 I agree with Grabber. Only time will tell what Ford will crank out of the new style. If they do limited builds to avoid CAFE, then I'm sure the prices will be high and/or dealer premiums, more so than what we are seeing currently, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedrx Posted November 26, 2013 Report Share Posted November 26, 2013 If the 5.8L is still be offered by Ford, it is probably in crate form and not in a production vehicle (unless they revive the Ford GT!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldcuts113 Posted November 26, 2013 Report Share Posted November 26, 2013 Thanks Madlock for the information re: availability. Next time, I'm just shooting you a PM to let me know what's out there vs searching myself lol.. Plethora of information! So, to get back on track with the OP, I'm curious as to exact number built for 2014 and assuming we won't know those numbers until spring of 2015? Madlock probably knows the exact date and time the production numbers will be available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelbymotorsports Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 All that may be true, but a couple years down the line, if Ford did a big block limited run Mach 1, CAFE standards won't matter if they are produced in less than 3k units. I'm not so sure about that. The GT500KR's were under 3,000 units and they weren't exempt. Can you share some more info on this less than 3000 exemption? Would be interesting to learn more about it. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 I'm not so sure about that. The GT500KR's were under 3,000 units and they weren't exempt. Can you share some more info on this less than 3000 exemption? Would be interesting to learn more about it. Steve CAFE = Corporate Average Fuel Economy. i.e. Better sell an ass-load of Fiestas if you want to remain the nation's top truck maker too. This is above and beyond any per-vehicle gas guzzler taxes and any additional state and federal regs. That's why displacement is shrinking with a greater reliance on turbocharging, taller gearing and conservative tunes. It's also going to create artificial price distortions in the market with pricing used to influence the sales mix makers need to achieve rather than simply reflecting consumer supply and demand. The first example was Lincoln pricing MKZ Hybrid and Gas being sold for the same price a few years ago - and it's going to get FAR more distortive in the future, with true HiPo versions being made in far smaller numbers with far larger price tags. Thank those we elected who pledged to know better for us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Back off track for one post regarding the DIB/white conv. Going with Sandy Springs. GM there, Brian, is aces. MSRP and working with me on the overall price out the door. Great guy to deal with. They actually have a few in stock - coupes/convertibles although some are advertised over MSRP as mine is/was, I'm sure they'll work with anyone interested. Thanks Madlock for the information re: availability. Next time, I'm just shooting you a PM to let me know what's out there vs searching myself lol.. Plethora of information! So, to get back on track with the OP, I'm curious as to exact number built for 2014 and assuming we won't know those numbers until spring of 2015? Madlock probably knows the exact date and time the production numbers will be available On the presumption no further cars are in the pipe, you already know what exists in their entirety - and I have "the numbers" today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldcuts113 Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Nice! ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelbymotorsports Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 CAFE = Corporate Average Fuel Economy. i.e. Better sell an ass-load of Fiestas if you want to remain the nation's top truck maker too. This is above and beyond any per-vehicle gas guzzler taxes and any additional state and federal regs. That's why displacement is shrinking with a greater reliance on turbocharging, taller gearing and conservative tunes. It's also going to create artificial price distortions in the market with pricing used to influence the sales mix makers need to achieve rather than simply reflecting consumer supply and demand. The first example was Lincoln pricing MKZ Hybrid and Gas being sold for the same price a few years ago - and it's going to get FAR more distortive in the future, with true HiPo versions being made in far smaller numbers with far larger price tags. Thank those we elected who pledged to know better for us all. Yes I'm quite familiar with CAFE and what the initials stand for. My question is about the less than 3,000 car exemption posted earlier. That's what I'm interested in hearing more about Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubbsFaris Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Yes I'm quite familiar with CAFE and what the initials stand for. My question is about the less than 3,000 car exemption posted earlier. That's what I'm interested in hearing more about Steve I was merely suggesting that if Ford wanted to do a build with a big block/guzzler, if they did it in less than 3k examples built, the impact to the entire average of all Fords built would be less than .1%. The CAFE is averaged across all builds, not each model. So if they build 100k focus and fiestas getting a 32 mpg average, building as many as 3k 5.8L GT500s only impacts their CAFE standard less than .4 mpg. At some point, its an issue, but its all about balancing that number, and making sure enough suckers-I mean caring members of society-buy the focusesese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 I was merely suggesting that if Ford wanted to do a build with a big block/guzzler, if they did it in less than 3k examples built, the impact to the entire average of all Fords built would be less than .1%. The CAFE is averaged across all builds, not each model. So if they build 100k focus and fiestas getting a 32 mpg average, building as many as 3k 5.8L GT500s only impacts their CAFE standard less than .4 mpg. At some point, its an issue, but its all about balancing that number, and making sure enough suckers-I mean caring members of society-buy the focusesese. Yessir, they're going to be fighting over every nth of an mpg they can get across the board, even the .1%, unfortunately. Ford's (all makers) product planners and marketers are going to have one hell of a time deciding what to make, how many, and how to price them to both maximize economy and profit potential and influence mix. Thank God Ford has chosen to battle on the basis of quality and value rather than price alone, which leaves it more latitude than most to become aggressive where it must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubbsFaris Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 The biggest hurdle they have now is the popularity of the Raptor. Although it ends for this Chassis in 2014, its been such a great seller, I would be shocked not to see a return in a 2nd gen like the Lightning. I was told SVT is testing one now for 2016. Im hoping it makes it, but not at 13.4 mpg version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelbymotorsports Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 I was merely suggesting that if Ford wanted to do a build with a big block/guzzler, if they did it in less than 3k examples built, the impact to the entire average of all Fords built would be less than .1%. The CAFE is averaged across all builds, not each model. So if they build 100k focus and fiestas getting a 32 mpg average, building as many as 3k 5.8L GT500s only impacts their CAFE standard less than .4 mpg. At some point, its an issue, but its all about balancing that number, and making sure enough suckers-I mean caring members of society-buy the focusesese. Ok I'm following you now. At first I thought you were saying there was a 3,000 exemption, meaning that any model with less than 3,000 produced wouldn't count towards their CAFE numbers. Heck even back in the 1980's with all the four cylinder cars Chrysler was cranking out, when Carroll came up with the V8 Shelby Dakota truck it caused alarm bells to ring internally. Who would have thought that 1500 trucks would tip the scales enough to even be discussed. Just shows how much those CAFE numbers mean to a manufacturer and that was over 25 years ago so you know its even worse now. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted November 28, 2013 Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 Ok I'm following you now. At first I thought you were saying there was a 3,000 exemption, meaning that any model with less than 3,000 produced wouldn't count towards their CAFE numbers. Heck even back in the 1980's with all the four cylinder cars Chrysler was cranking out, when Carroll came up with the V8 Shelby Dakota truck it caused alarm bells to ring internally. Who would have thought that 1500 trucks would tip the scales enough to even be discussed. Just shows how much those CAFE numbers mean to a manufacturer and that was over 25 years ago so you know its even worse now. Steve When you're SO dependent upon SO many trucks for margin, every tenth of a tenth matters - especially since your competitors may not be so-encumbered. So you make fewer - and drive up your product-specific costs and make the business case less worthwhile - especially with warrantees you'll be owning as a liability for up to another 8 years. But then you need to drive up prices - which makes them a harder sell given the likely future competition. There's no quick or easy solution unless you're willing to overlook other, possibly-bigger, opportunity costs. That's why Ford is making the right decision of working from a position of adding performance to the most efficient practical baseline which is FAR more scalable - and not continuing to try to wring economy from its biggest, most inherently powerful mills. Even if it could make the latter work, it'd need to bet the come to do so with FAR more valuable assets than just Mustang - which would be one of the worst business decisions it could make. Then again, it's not really Ford who decided. It's the high-minded few who know what's best and decide for all of us, those who just-as-knowingly elected them - and those who couldn't be bothered to object as compellingly as possible. And so, we have what we've got - which includes everybody who simply can't afford the extra $3-4,000 that would've made the difference between owning their once-in-a-lifetime dream car while others are being GIVEN $7,500 or more to own a Volt, Fusion Energi or some different car OTHERS would prefer they drive instead. At least nobody can say we aren't getting EXACTLY what we've insisted upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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