hunters1 Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Fays2 installed today. Used FRRP aluminum low profile diff cover with no clearance issues. Now upon further advice am considering Torque Arm and adjustable lower control arms. Will Cortex Torque Arm and lower control arms work with Fays2/diff setup? Have Eibach R2 coilover, stock lower control arms, stock sway bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperNC Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Not sure about the torque arm, but upgrading the LCA's and sway bars are a must. Unbelievable difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Since you have now put an adjustable watts linkage set up in the rear of the car to adjust the rear roll center maybe you should correct the front roll center by putting on the extended front lower ball joints and extended outer tie rod ends ( or bump steer kit ) to get the suspension geometry right from lowering the car. Or finish off the back with a torque arm and some LCAs . JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunters1 Posted November 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Albino500 thanks, the front end has had some work done by previous owner, he tracked the car at Barber. He had the car worked over by a speed shop near Birmingham. The car tracked well just had issues with the rear braking loose under hard exceleration. I am taking it a step further by tightening up the rear end..Torque arm is new to me. I will also get into reciepts that came with car to see what was done with front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunters1 Posted November 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Any one running Fays2 and Cortex Torque arm? Have Eibach Pro street coil overs and now Eibach adjustable LCA's. Also after adding yet to be determined Torque arm will sway bar be necessary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 I know that the Griggs torque arm will work with the FRPP diff cover and Fays2 watts but not sure about the Cortex . I imagine that Fillip @ Cortex should be able to tell you or set you up with one that works ( it's the thickness of the rear cover that needs to be addressed because that is where it bolts onto in the back ) You can still run a rear sway bar . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunters1 Posted November 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 OK now focusing on front geometry. What brands would you recommend for "extended front lower ball joints and extended outer tie rod ends ( or bump steer kit " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Posted November 28, 2013 Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 If you have not done it already................the longer/heftier 2011-up UCA fits the 2007-2010 cars. A progression comparison 2008 oem, 2007-2010 BMR, 2011-up oem, 2011-up BMR.......... flipped over.......... Once I installed the oem 2011-up UCA in my 2008 and found it to fit with a small amount of bracket modification, the BMR 2011-up was the end goal. The 2007-2010 BMR (right) side-by-side with the 2011-up...... R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted November 28, 2013 Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 OK now focusing on front geometry. What brands would you recommend for "extended front lower ball joints and extended outer tie rod ends ( or bump steer kit " I mostly have been going with the Steeda X5 ball joints and the FRPP M - 3130 - R2 outer tie rod ends and it's been working well for cars that are street / track used . The Steeda is a press in unit ( with a retaining clip ) and the FRPP tie rod ends have a silicone boot to protect from the rotor heat and they both have Zerk fittings for servicing . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunters1 Posted December 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Any idea on cost to install the Steeda X5 and the 3130-R2 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 It only takes about an hour per side ( 2 hours ) max. and taking the LCAs down to an automotive machine shop should only costs like $40 to press out/in a pair of X5 ball joints. You will have to have the "TOE" setting rechecked on the car as a minimum but I'd suggest you have them recheck the front end alignment . I don't know the shop hourly rates in your area but hopefully this should give you an idea of what it takes . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunters1 Posted January 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Robert M , what modification did you do to allow install of 2011 BMR UCA to fit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Robert M , what modification did you do to allow install of 2011 BMR UCA to fit? No mods at all to my car or the BMR UCA/UCM. <<This was a direct bolt-in upgrade for my 2008 and installed just like the B4 2011 BMR UCA/UCM. Check out the thread linked below, it shows the UCA/UCM installed pictures lower down in the thread, also LCA relocation brackets (with pictures) and their changes to rear axle geometry. BMR replied to this UCA upgrade at the end (currently) of the link below............. http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php/topic/83679-has-anyone-else-installed-the-2011-up-uca-on-their-2007-2010/ Getting all of the axle attachment points tightened up and the geometry improved was/is my first goal, and then I am going to work toward a time when I will get the alloy Fays2 out of the box and start the install. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunters1 Posted January 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Always amazed with how complete the members are in their write-ups and knowledge. Thanks I can proceed with full confidence on the 2011+ on my 07. Cool, Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunters1 Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Well I ordered the 2011 BMR UCA and it did not fit on the 07. The issue is the bolt guide that attaches under the back seat to the sub frame is MUCH larger on the 2011 bracket. I thought after reading above that there was no fitment issues. Oh well have ordered BMR's 07-10 model and will live with that. I did not have the OEM 2011/up bracket to compare but, I suspect that might fit just not the BMR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Well I ordered the 2011 BMR UCA and it did not fit on the 07. The issue is the bolt guide that attaches under the back seat to the sub frame is MUCH larger on the 2011 bracket. I thought after reading above that there was no fitment issues. Oh well have ordered BMR's 07-10 model and will live with that. I did not have the OEM 2011/up bracket to compare but, I suspect that might fit just not the BMR. No issues on my 2008, it fit right in place into the hole in the bottom side of the floor and I attached the larger bolt under the rear seat. There is a person on another forum who has also done the upgrade I mentioned above without issues. Production differences? I don't know? Mine did not seem to fit during one of my test fittings and I found that when I readjusted the install angle of the front mount, it slipped into/through the hole in the floor. I started with the bracket only at first for test fitting, and it fit fine all three attachment points, then when I had everything bolted together and tried to re-install as an assy. the front mount was not going back into the hole, I knew it would fit because I had just had the bracket itself in place (without the arm) the day before and the hole in the floor had not changed. With a little angle change the mount fit into/through the hole in the floor. How close was the fit? You are talking about the front mounting point on the BMR UCM not fitting through the hole in the bottom floor area above the fuel tank, right? If so, mine was not tight, it slipped in place, but it was closer than the oem unit that had some play when put in position. Sorry to hear that your install was going to turn into more than a simple replacement............... R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunters1 Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I suspect that there may be two versions of the 2011+ BMR brackets out there. Why? Two reasons. I lowered gas tank so there were no hinderances in the process and I could clearly see what was going on. The threaded fitting/hossel on the bracket is meant to slide/fit into the hole as additional structure/fit as the stock bracket did. The bolt and threaded fitting on the newer one is 16mm vs stock 14mm. Hence the threaded hossel is much larger and will not fit into the hole provided for the stock bracket. I thought about drilling out the hole but, that would limit the material that was there to provide structural integrity of the bracket and the floor pan tie in. Also bolt that attaches bushing on 11+ is larger than stock so there is no attaching new bushing to old stock bracket as there would be a gap through the bushing allowing for potential movement and unsat results. With all the other suspension parts already installed it is unlikely that I will need the beefier UCA anyway. I did need adjustability for pinion angle alignment and after reading all above thought what the heck just go with the larger UCA. I can punt and still win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I suspect that there may be two versions of the 2011+ BMR brackets out there. Why? Two reasons. I lowered gas tank so there were no hinderances in the process and I could clearly see what was going on. The threaded fitting/hossel on the bracket is meant to slide/fit into the hole as additional structure/fit as the stock bracket did. The bolt and threaded fitting on the newer one is 16mm vs stock 14mm. Hence the threaded hossel is much larger and will not fit into the hole provided for the stock bracket. I thought about drilling out the hole but, that would limit the material that was there to provide structural integrity of the bracket and the floor pan tie in. Also bolt that attaches bushing on 11+ is larger than stock so there is no attaching new bushing to old stock bracket as there would be a gap through the bushing allowing for potential movement and unsat results. With all the other suspension parts already installed it is unlikely that I will need the beefier UCA anyway. I did need adjustability for pinion angle alignment and after reading all above thought what the heck just go with the larger UCA. I can punt and still win. If this is the 16mm vs. 14mm you are talking about shown below, and I'm pretty sure it is 18mm vs. 14mm, yes the larger diameter shown on the left fit into my oem 2008 size hole without dropping the fuel tank and drilling. It required sliding the 2011-up bracket in squarely with the hole (not at an angle) and it was not loose in the hole like the earlier design, but it slid in mine without enlarging. It really didn't even require effort for the install in this area, but it had to go in straight with the hole (no angle). it could not be low in the rear with the weight of the UCA also attached, I had to hold the assy. up so that the front UCM attachment was squarely entering the hole in the floor. <<It seemed to be a more precise fit on the hole rather than a quick assy. line install. Like I said above, maybe production differences? I would guess the hole is punched in the sheet metal panel during production? No, you would want to use the 2011-up parts together and not mix and match 2011-up with earlier parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Ok, so here is the Scott Drake UCM that I mentioned in the other thread related to the UCA upgrade. This upper mount was designed with the smaller 14mm front (under seat) bolt, but it also has the dual fore and aft bolt pattern which "may" work for the 2007-2010 UCA at the rear/aft bolt hole location and "may" also work for the 2011-up UCA when the front/fore hole location is used, but it would require re-drilling the front holes to the larger size for the 2011-up through bolt. ^^^Like I said, this "may" work. I but I will need to do some additional comparisons using the oem 2007-2010 bracket and the oem 2011-up bracket for side-by-side hole location comparisons to this Scott Drake UCM, and that may happen tomorrow morning if I have time to do it. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 MMMmm - I agree longer is better that's why eariler on I mentioned going to a torque arm and eliminating the UCA . If you are addressing the roll centers of the vehicle and you have used the watts linkage as a means in the rear of the vehicle should you not also be looking at the front as well . Interesting project that you have brought up Robert just waiting to see more development on this. At what location are you at for intersecting points for UCA and LCAs in reguards to the vehicle wheel base with the longer upper verses the shorter one ? Just a question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 My wife and daughter are coming home later than usual so I had time to do some side-by-sides, not a straight edge and not scientific, but close enough for the information needed here. The oem 2007-2010 UCM on the left, the dual bolt pattern Scott Drake in the center and the oem 2011-up on the right............ This view, sorry for the blur, but it is a straight through look Scott Drake through 2007-2010, we expected these holes to line up because this Scott Drake UCM is designed for an earlier car. Now for the front holes, sorry for the blur, this is looking through the Scott Drake and through the 2011-up oem UCM, yes the front holes also line up, a nice find So this Scott Drake UCM is the thicker design, has the 2007-2010 front bolt mounting under the rear seat and also has the dual bolt pattern that will work with the shorter 2007-2010 UCA using the rear bolt holes without drilling, or the longer 2011-up UCA with a re-drill of the front holes for the larger UCA through bolt. <<I would try to drill the front holes larger more toward the bracket mounting area to minimize the metal getting thinner toward the outside, but this is a pretty thick bracket, the larger heads of the bolt and nut would also have to be kept in mind. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 MMMmm - I agree longer is better that's why eariler on I mentioned going to a torque arm and eliminating the UCA . If you are addressing the roll centers of the vehicle and you have used the watts linkage as a means in the rear of the vehicle should you not also be looking at the front as well . Interesting project that you have brought up Robert just waiting to see more development on this. At what location are you at for intersecting points for UCA and LCAs in reguards to the vehicle wheel base with the longer upper verses the shorter one ? Just a question Believe it or not, I have not had my car out since I installed the LCA relo. brackets, it has been wet outside when I had the time, and dry when I did not have the time.................Crazy!! As for the torque arm add, yes that would be a nice upgrade, but I am not going that direction with my car right now.............maybe in the future? I just trying to upgrade what is there and try to also take advantage of what Ford has upgraded to what is there from the factory..............and then add the BMR upgrades to what was there originally. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Robert, Let me throw something your way (and Tob) . For a person that doesn't need to have an adjustable UCA (which is for those whom have gone from a 2 piece driveshaft to a 1 piece) can't you use a non-adjustable UCA from BMR. Say like putting a BMR 2011-14 poly bushed UCA with the Drake UCA mount and put it on a 2005-2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tob Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 If Robert's cursory view on dimensioning holds true then I don't see why not. Are you averse to BMR's adjustable arm or just trying to keep things simple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 If Robert's cursory view on dimensioning holds true then I don't see why not. Are you averse to BMR's adjustable arm or just trying to keep things simple? ^^I agree Tob, it appears that this may be an option for those who want the longer arm, but run into an issue with the hole being too small in the floor, however, since I have not bolted this in place and verified the fit, I don't want to say "it will". It is nice that both positions are in that Drake UCM. I bought it way before I went down the BMR path, but I always kept that dual pattern in the back of my mind and recently wondered if it would line up with each of the oem UCM's. I looked on the Scott Drake site and did not see this UCM. I bought mine from SPP a few years ago, maybe 3+ years. I am not sure if it is still available? I think I recently saw one on eBay, I think? Maybe some of the vendors who handle Scott Drake items may still have this UCM. Tomorrow I will get a picture of the part number on the end of the box, that may help someone in search of this bracket. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 UPDATE - It is American Muscle where I had seen it recently! It is available............ http://www.americanmuscle.com/scottdrake-uca-mount-0510.html R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Robert, Let me throw something your way (and Tob) . For a person that doesn't need to have an adjustable UCA (which is for those whom have gone from a 2 piece driveshaft to a 1 piece) can't you use a non-adjustable UCA from BMR. Say like putting a BMR 2011-14 poly bushed UCA with the Drake UCA mount and put it on a 2005-2010. From the looks of it, yes, and also drilling the front UCA holes on the Drake for the larger 2011-up through bolt. <<This is where I was going with the info. on the Drake bracket. I had not compared this before, but once someone had an issue with the floor bolt hole being too small, it was time to pull this Drake out and see if it could be used as an option for the earlier cars. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 If Robert's cursory view on dimensioning holds true then I don't see why not. Are you averse to BMR's adjustable arm or just trying to keep things simple? Tob , just trying to keep things simple. I've used the BMR stuff on several cars and am happy with their product line. I will tell you that it is a pain in the a$$ to tighten the jam nuts on the adjustable UCA after adjusting to correct driveline angles for 1 piece driveshafts. It would be nice to be able to use the non-adjustable unit when possible to be able to avoid this part of the install. That plus not having to worry about the turnbuckle portion getting loose later down the road. ^^I agree Tob, it appears that this may be an option for those who want the longer arm, but run into an issue with the hole being too small in the floor, however, since I have not bolted this in place and verified the fit, I don't want to say "it will". It is nice that both positions are in that Drake UCM. I bought it way before I went down the BMR path, but I always kept that dual pattern in the back of my mind and recently wondered if it would line up with each of the oem UCM's. I looked on the Scott Drake site and did not see this UCM. I bought mine from SPP a few years ago, maybe 3+ years. I am not sure if it is still available? I think I recently saw one on eBay, I think? Maybe some of the vendors who handle Scott Drake items may still have this UCM. Tomorrow I will get a picture of the part number on the end of the box, that may help someone in search of this bracket. R The UCM is still available from Scott Drake (part # 5R3Z-5500-MNT) @ $79.95 . I'm just wondering if you could use a Roush #421120 UCA for a 2011-2014 ($295.99) plus the Drake mount to have something that does the job but limits the increase in NVH for folks using it on street applications and use it on the 2005-2010 model S197. Looking to understand why the engineers changed it out on the 2011 ( was it due to the increase in horsepower or what? ) The Roush UCA has the smaller diameter rubber bushing in it for less deflection and may benefit any clearance issues. Just thinking about your find that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperNC Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Agree with Albino500. I'll throw in my 2 cents: If you can get away without the adjustable UCA then do it. I always remember the simple rule about adjustable parts: If they can be adjusted, typically they require constant adjusting. But if you like getting up under your car frequently, then by all means get the parts you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Tob , just trying to keep things simple. I've used the BMR stuff on several cars and am happy with their product line. I will tell you that it is a pain in the a$$ to tighten the jam nuts on the adjustable UCA after adjusting to correct driveline angles for 1 piece driveshafts. It would be nice to be able to use the non-adjustable unit when possible to be able to avoid this part of the install. That plus not having to worry about the turnbuckle portion getting loose later down the road. The UCM is still available from Scott Drake (part # 5R3Z-5500-MNT) @ $79.95 . I'm just wondering if you could use a Roush #421120 UCA for a 2011-2014 ($295.99) plus the Drake mount to have something that does the job but limits the increase in NVH for folks using it on street applications and use it on the 2005-2010 model S197. Looking to understand why the engineers changed it out on the 2011 ( was it due to the increase in horsepower or what? ) The Roush UCA has the smaller diameter rubber bushing in it for less deflection and may benefit any clearance issues. Just thinking about your find that's all. I have a 2011-up Roush here also, it is a nice piece and works well for many. The only upgrade to the 2011-up Roush from the 2005-2010 version is the under seat bolt size, so eliminating the Roush UCM from the equation and using the Drake UCM instead would not gain you anything over the Roush 2005-2010. The Roush unit did not get a longer arm upgrade for the 2011-up, it only got a bigger under seat bolt in the front of the UCM. Of course I have pictures......... On the left the oem 2005-2010 UCA/UCM, in the center the Roush 2011-up, and on the right the oem 2011-up. Narrowing it down to the Roush 2011-up and the oem 2011-up.........note the longer arm and the larger through bolt on the 2011-up oem. The Roush retains the shorter arm and smaller through bolt as is used on the 2005-2010 oem, but they did make the bushing smaller and added the larger front mount to the UCM. ^^^^In the picture above, also notice how much more "beef" is in the 2011-up oem UCM. The Roush UCM is made of thicker steel than the 2005-2010 oem, but retained the same "open" design. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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