California Smog

[AstroDan]

Well. Betsy failed smog this weekend.

Everything was good except the mechanic said there was no EGR valve.

I have the sheet with exactly what is wrong, but was too dispirited to look further. Took her home and parked it. I will post more info after work.

SAI put the Whipple sticker under hood saying it is 50 state legal...

Comments? Has anyone else run into this?

 

Bummed in NorCal

[HARALD KELLEY]

I would go to another smog shop. SAI SC installs are 50 state legal.

[Dan Espejo]

I have a Shelby GT, with Whipple W140ax/ 550HP with inter cooler.

Have a Jon Lund tune installed and it failed California smog last week.

 

 

If you have the stock whipple tune it is 50 state legal and should pass.

[Shelby Nick]

I took my car to a smog only station before it was SC'd and they would not do it. I ended up at a local Shell station where it passed. I would take it to another place and try. Reach out to Jer if you don't have any luck.

Nick

[Pockdog]

To clarify, are "FAILS" related to failing the computerized portion or the visual portion of the inspection?

 

-Pockdog

[ingram4868]

CA is certainly difficult. I have seen guys with their modified Fox body cars produce a 3 ring binder full of CARB exemption certifications just to make it through the visual. Most will pass the sniffer or computer checks but that visual can be a real downer. If your tester put the "No EGR" in the State computer system I would imagine the next guy will look for it also unless someone has a CARB exempt form for it.

 

Good luck.

[idrathergolf]

Well. Betsy failed smog this weekend.

Everything was good except the mechanic said there was no EGR valve.

I have the sheet with exactly what is wrong, but was too dispirited to look further. Took her home and parked it. I will post more info after work.

SAI put the Whipple sticker under hood saying it is 50 state legal...

Comments? Has anyone else run into this?

 

Bummed in NorCal

Dan, I am not certain about this, but I thought the cars coming out of Las Vegas didn't have EGR's and it was still okay in CA. I mean, if C.A.R.B. allowed these cars to be sold in CA in the first place without an EGR, then logic would dictate that it should pass the visual. Like I said, I am not certain. Did you take the EGR off? If you didn't, then I suppose that supports my point. I feel your pain. My GT500 was garaged until August this year due to having problems passing the smog test. Dana

 

P.S. Just checked a few other sites. Yep, seems to verify what I said. No EGR on the Shelby GT's. Just a PCV.

[07SGT2899]

Yeah. No egr valves after 04 on a mustang. Thats partially the reason Ford went to variable Cam timing. Not only for power but they can reduce emissions by altering Cam timing thus eliminating egr systems. It seems as though you failed for not having something your car isn't even factory equipped with.

[2010KonaBlueGT]

Well. Betsy failed smog this weekend.

Everything was good except the mechanic said there was no EGR valve.

I have the sheet with exactly what is wrong, but was too dispirited to look further.

 

Is it missing, modified or disconnected? Your failed smog test should say.

 

If it's "missing", check your underhood label to see if EGR is listed as a emission device. If the label says EGR, it has to be there to pass the visual AND functional tests. If it is not listed on the sticker, there is NO EGR valve/system required, regardless of if the Aftermarket Supercharger (WITH EO# label affixed) having a EGR boss or not. My suspicion is that the Whipple has a EGR boss and came with a block-off plate, which the Tech is seeing and ASSUMING there is a missing EGR valve.

 

If the underhood sticker is missing, the Smog Tech is likely going by a book/manual and I've seen TONS of mistakes in the smog manuals. Check another manual and see what it says.

 

BTW, you should be able to get a new underhood sticker from the dealer which will be VIN assigned.

 

 

Phill

[Torch40]

Try another shop but come ready to rock. Or maybe go back to the same shop with documentation showing your car should pass. You have to know what is supposed to be under the hood. Look up you exemption number and print out a copy and bring it.

Call Shelby and get whatever info they can provide. My 40th passed but I had to walk the guy through and made sure he was aware of what he was looking at.

[Jer]

From our Production Department:

 

"The Whipple sticker has nothing to do with it. The Shelby underhood sticker is the wrong one and states that the car has an EGR. This is the wrong sticker. The car came from ford without an EGR. Therefore we could not take off what was never there."

 

 

 

Jer

[mywickedshelby]

so can Shelby provide a correct sticker indicating there is no EGR?

[Jer]

Yup.

We have them, I'm digging them up now...

 

 

Jer

[Torch40]

Yup.

We have them, I'm digging them up now...

 

 

Jer

Nice to know. I wonder how many others have failed smog and are not on this forum?

[Jer]

THIS is the sticker you need (see attachment).

Anyone who needs one can send their mailing address to BillC@ShelbyAmerican.com, and it will be sent right out, free of charge. Just put "Need 2007 SGT Emissions Sticker" in the email Subject.

 

 

Thanks,

 

 

Jer

 

 

[Jer]

Nice to know. I wonder how many others have failed smog and are not on this forum?

 

We get phone calls, and we send out stickers. Most of these got sorted out years ago.

 

 

Jer

[AstroDan]

_{Lot's of good info here. Thanks guys. The tester said it failed because there is no EGR and the sticker says it requires one. The SC sticker was OK, but it doesn't note the lack of EGR. (I guess it woulddn't, since the removal was part of the SGT process, not the SC) All other tests were good. I won't go back to the same place becaause the guy wedged my hood down, didn't even know how to close my hood! I will send my info to you Jer, and get the correct sicker. I'll also arm myself with the other things noted on this thread.}

_{More to come, and thanks a ton, guys!}

_Dan

[HARALD KELLEY]

_{Lot's of good info here. Thanks guys. The tester said it failed because there is no EGR and the sticker says it requires one. The SC sticker was OK, but it doesn't note the lack of EGR. (I guess it woulddn't, since the removal was part of the SGT process, not the SC) All other tests were good. I won't go back to the same place becaause the guy wedged my hood down, didn't even know how to close my hood! I will send my info to you Jer, and get the correct sicker. I'll also arm myself with the other things noted on this thread.}

_{More to come, and thanks a ton, guys!}

_Dan

Good luck Dan

[SVT NAJA]

+1...

[mywickedshelby]

Good luck Dan!

 

and thanks Jer and Bill!

[MY500SS]

Good luck Dan!

 

and thanks Jer and Bill!

 

 

+1......................hope all comes out well.

[Don Johnston]

Update?

[AstroDan]

I emailed Bill and got a reply about 30 minutes later. It is in the mail and I expect it, maybe, today.

Once again, very prompt service!

A good freind of mine gave me a different place to take my car to. I will do as he suggests and get this done.

 

Question:

Should I peel off the wrong sticker and replace with the correct one?

Place new sticker over old one?

New sticker next to old one?

[2010KonaBlueGT]

I emailed Bill and got a reply about 30 minutes later. It is in the mail and I expect it, maybe, today.

Once again, very prompt service!

A good freind of mine gave me a different place to take my car to. I will do as he suggests and get this done.

 

Question:

Should I peel off the wrong sticker and replace with the correct one?

Place new sticker over old one?

New sticker next to old one?

 

 

Peel off the old one and replace it with the CORRECT one.

 

Any evidence of tampering (i.e. the old sticker, under the new) is grounds for a Smog Tech to fail your vehicle.

 

BTW, you can just go to a State Referee station and get your car smogged using the correct emission control systems, which the Ref. will have in a manual. Just tell him what Jer said about the sticker and s/he should be able to look up the correct one. Only problem is, you'll likely have to take it to a Ref. Station from here on out.

 

The best way is to get the correct sticker and affix it.

 

 

Phill (former Calif. Smog Tech & CACC (Calif. Smog Class) Certified Instructor).

[shelbymotorsports]

 

 

Peel off the old one and replace it with the CORRECT one.

 

Any evidence of tampering (i.e. the old sticker, under the new) is grounds for a Smog Tech to fail your vehicle.

 

BTW, you can just go to a State Referee station and get your car smogged using the correct emission control systems, which the Ref. will have in a manual. Just tell him what Jer said about the sticker and s/he should be able to look up the correct one. Only problem is, you'll likely have to take it to a Ref. Station from here on out.

 

The best way is to get the correct sticker and affix it.

 

 

Phill (former Calif. Smog Tech & CACC (Calif. Smog Class) Certified Instructor).

 

 

 

Not in California. There is no law/rule that an emission label even needs to be there for a smog check.

 

Sure a tech can fail you if he wants to but there is no button or code for denoting noncompliance regarding a emission label.

 

Steve

[Torch40]

 

Not in California. There is no law/rule that an emission label even needs to be there for a smog check.

 

Sure a tech can fail you if he wants to but there is no button or code for denoting noncompliance regarding a emission label.

 

Steve

Uh oh, you're about ready to release the Kraken...

[shelbymotorsports]

Uh oh, you're about ready to release the Kraken...

 

Well lets hope not. And hey I'm always open to learning something but in the case of California emission labels, failure is not an option.

 

Just think about how many tens of thousands of cars have had their hood replaced due to an accident. Does the new hood come with a decal? Nope. Does the body shop replace the decal? Nope. Do these tens of thousands of repaired cars fail their next smog test? Nope.

 

It appears things have gotten better but it wasn't that long ago that you couldn't even get replacement emission labels from the dealer. They weren't even listed in the parts books. And if an incorrect emission label equals a fail on your smog check then what about all the cars out there where their hood was replaced with a used hood. Their are tens of thousands of cars out there with a hood from a different year car with perhaps a different engine family emission label on them. Again those cars do not fail the smog check. They may make the tech scratch his head for a moment but in my opinion the tech should be going by what his computer screen tells him to look for and not what a label says.

 

Here's another example. Lets say to have a 2010 Mustang with the 4.0 six cylinder engine and you replace it with a 2012 Boss 302 engine along with all the required 2012 smog equipment. Once you've completed the conversion you take your car to a smog referee who verifies you're in compliance and then they attach a decal to your drivers door or door jamb stating that the car is approved and for the smog techs to use the 302 engine specs when performing a smog check. The smog referee does not take a razor blade to your hood nor do they require you to take a razor blade to your hood. Your 4.0 label would just stay there unless it bothered you that much and you decide to remove it.

 

Just the way it is.

 

Steve

[2010KonaBlueGT]

Not in California. There is no law/rule that an emission label even needs to be there for a smog check.

Sure a tech can fail you if he wants to but there is no button or code for denoting noncompliance regarding a emission label.

Steve

 

No, there is no law mandating a Emission Label is affixed but if one is affixed, the Smog Tech must use it as his reference.

 

Unless there is a Referee sticker applied in which case the Tech would go by what the Ref. stamped on the label (NOT the standards from another car).

 

I don't have a TAS Machine handy but IIRC, there is a check box for a missing label. I could be wrong, it's been a long time since I'd smogged a car.

 

 

Phill

[2010KonaBlueGT]

 

Well lets hope not. And hey I'm always open to learning something but in the case of California emission labels, failure is not an option.

 

Just think about how many tens of thousands of cars have had their hood replaced due to an accident. Does the new hood come with a decal? Nope. Does the body shop replace the decal? Nope. Do these tens of thousands of repaired cars fail their next smog test? Nope.

 

It appears things have gotten better but it wasn't that long ago that you couldn't even get replacement emission labels from the dealer. They weren't even listed in the parts books. And if an incorrect emission label equals a fail on your smog check then what about all the cars out there where their hood was replaced with a used hood. Their are tens of thousands of cars out there with a hood from a different year car with perhaps a different engine family emission label on them. Again those cars do not fail the smog check. They may make the tech scratch his head for a moment but in my opinion the tech should be going by what his computer screen tells him to look for and not what a label says.

 

Here's another example. Lets say to have a 2010 Mustang with the 4.0 six cylinder engine and you replace it with a 2012 Boss 302 engine along with all the required 2012 smog equipment. Once you've completed the conversion you take your car to a smog referee who verifies you're in compliance and then they attach a decal to your drivers door or door jamb stating that the car is approved and for the smog techs to use the 302 engine specs when performing a smog check. The smog referee does not take a razor blade to your hood nor do they require you to take a razor blade to your hood. Your 4.0 label would just stay there unless it bothered you that much and you decide to remove it.

 

Just the way it is.

 

Steve

 

Too much to answer all in one post but I'll touch on a few items...

 

If you use a hood from another car with a different engine family, you WILL fail the test. Period. The Smog Tech doesn't know if you replaced a hood or a engine.

 

(EDIT: I should not have said "PERIOD". A *good* smog tech will look up the vehicle by the VIN before failing a car but as the OP opined, that's not the case with *most* Tech's.)

 

As far as your example of a "2010 Mustang with the 4.0 six cylinder engine and you replace it with a 2012 Boss 302 engine along with all the required 2012 smog equipment", those are two different Engine FAMILIES and is defined as a ENGINE CHANGE (as denoted by the VIN) which would require a trip to the Referee station for him/her to affix a label to the vehicle, which would then be used rather than a underhood label. I believe the Ref would remove the original sticker too.

 

Also understand that "all (of) the required 2012 smog equipment" would entail the complete EEC harness and PCM from the donor car (along with all associated items such as digital dash, VSS, possibly trans, etc.).

 

The Ref stamps a X in a box on the (aluminum) label s/he affixes to the vehicle and the Tech goes by the new label, NOT the standards from a 2012 Boss (in fairness, it SHOULD be the same thing).

 

But you are right in that a vehicle will NOT fail a smog check for a missing underhood label. In that case, the Tech would look in a manual and go by the manual. And as I said in a previous post, I've seen many MANY manuals that are wrong so I personally would rather get a new label and affix it to the car.

 

I don't know what your definition of "recently" is but I was getting emission labels as early as 1989 so they've been around for quite awhile now.

 

 

HTH,

 

Phill

[Blown Away]

When I bought my car new in 09, I had to get it smogged because I bought it from a dealer in Colorado. During the SGT conversion in Vegas, the Hertz hood was swapped for the factory one and no emission sticker was placed on it.

 

Guess what??? It failed because there was no emission sticker on the hood. Luckily Bud hooked me up with one and when I went back to get it smogged it passed with flying colors.

 

 

This January, I had to get it smogged again, as the car is now 6 years old. This time it had the whipple on it. I reloaded the stock tune, took it in and it passed. Afterwards I reloaded my John Lund tune and life is good.

 

Just my experience with CA smog laws.

 

Dan