2014 ROUSH STAGE 3 ALUMINATOR vs SHELBY GT500 RACE

[Secondo]

It's not my intention to contribute to a pissing match between my Shelby brothers but I will say that this video is clearly a Roush salesman trying to raise the reputation of his cars with a drag race against the top-dog Mustang that is setup for top-speed, not drag racing. Secondo out.

[ViperNC]

Here's a different thought... Ask the Roush guys which name they would prefer on their car for best pedigree: Roush or Shelby? I see plenty of Roush cars around town and at the local Cars and Coffee shows. Wonder why it is the people all gravitate away from the Roush and over to my Shelby when I show up? Game, Set, Match. I like the Roush cars as well, but my money and passion lies with Shelby. I could care less if the Roush is faster in a straight line. The smile on my face is due to the fact that I own a Shelby... a life long dream achieved.

[JeffJ]

I agree with most points here. Many are saying the same thing in different ways. All of them are based on the same platform. No question there, same body structure off the same line. They all change at that point. As others have said, if you take a $55K Shelby GT500 vs a $55K Roush Stage 3, then there is no comparison on the track, Shelby wins. If you take the $70K Roush Aluminator against the same $55K GT500, then the results will be the same as in the video above on the drag strip. If allowed just some tires, there would be very little difference, probably just about identical with equal tires. Funny, they never discussed allowing the Shelby to use it's factory launch control, I bet there would be differences then! They only discussed changing traction control on the Roush. Yep, the Stage 3 Roush is pretty much tapped out with these results, where the GT500 has quite a ways to go power wise with modification. This video is obviously a sales pitch for the Aluminator Roush. No question there. Both are absolutely awesome cars. If I could choose, it would be the Shelby, because of all the things Warren said above. I would also love to have the Stage 3 Aluminator, but would pick the Shelby any day of the week if I were buying.

 

P.S, the base Roush is an RS, not a Stage 1. Here's Jack Jr. signing my RS this weekend.

P.S.S. I chose the RS V6 over the Shelby GTS V6 as it was instant gradification and I would not have been able to come close to the price of this loaded V6 for the deal that I got. I paid for a premium V6 and basically got all the Roush stuff free for the price I paid for this 2013.

 

[2010KonaBlueGT]

I could care less if the Roush is faster in a straight line.

 

 

TA DAAAA!

 

And there we have it, the bottom line.

 

And someone honest enough to realize that our beloved Shelby is NOT the King of the road.

 

There will ALWAYS be faster cars than a factory Shelby.

 

Period.

 

I don't care if it's a Roush or a Nissan, there is always someone badder'n you.

 

 

 

"If I Have To Explain, You Wouldn't Understand"....

 

Phill

[2010KonaBlueGT]

Apparently you clearly have something against the 2013-2014 GT500s,

 

Apparently you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

 

 

Phill

[DubbsFaris]

Yikes. :facepalm:

 

Its CobraScotty all over again...

[DubbsFaris]

 

 

A "base" Roush would be a RS1, not a RS3 Aluminator.

 

An Aluminator is a optioned out Roush. A optioned out (PP & TP) '13 GT500 is $69.5K.

 

Compare Apples/Apples, not Apples/Oranges...

 

 

Phill

Since you asked that I only request one or two answers cuz you are a busy guy, I'll just ask this-

 

You keep stating that the GT500 is a 70k MSRP vehicle, and that the RS3 being a 70k vehicle makes this an apples to apples comparison.

I would like you to acknowledge that the MSRP is of a GT500 is 15k less, and that a fully optioned GT500 at 70k isnt going to run the 1/4 mile any faster than the base model GT500. Your posts, (and I went back and read each and every single one you made to be clear) keep ignoring my observation of why your comparison is flawed.

 

The bottom line of the video is that a 70k Roush RS3 beat a 55k GT500 in the 1/4 mile. Most here arent arguing the results of this specific video. (Some are merely pointing out that I could make a video of my stock raptor beating my 2014 gt500, but that doesnt make it law.) Im not interested in that argument- my first post, #2 stated this, and Im happy that Roush makes a great performing mustang!

 

My point was that if I buy a 55k GT500, and add another 15k in performance to it, the Roush wouldnt stand a chance. Evolution did that very thing to theirs, and its a low 9 second car with bolt ons. If you want to argue they also have a mid 8 second 5.0 mustang, I'll hear that argument, no problem. But the cost to get a 5.0 to that achievement was WAAAAYYYY higher than it was to get a 2013 to low 9s.

 

So please give me a direct answer to my acknowledgment request, and my second question is- Do you truly believe the GT500 is nothing more than a modded Mustang GT?

 

Thanks for your time. I wont take much more it I promise!

[2010KonaBlueGT]

Since you asked that I only request one or two answers cuz you are a busy guy, I'll just ask this-

 

 

I'll take this one line at a time....

 

Not because I'm such a busy guy, but because if I were to sit down and try to cut/copy/paste all of the questions into one post, it would be a novel that would make War And Peace look pale.

 

Cont....

 

 

 

Phill

[2010KonaBlueGT]

You keep stating that the GT500 is a 70k MSRP vehicle,

 

Correct. LOADED TO THE HILT, just like the RS3 Aluminator is LOADED TO THE HILT.

 

If you compare a 'base' GT5 you're leaving out the upgraded suspension. The RS3 has a SUSPENSION upgrade to it. Remove that and now how much is the Roush?

 

Frankly, I don't *know* so I won't quote numbers but it would not be $70K.

 

 

EDIT: According to the guy on the video (in the comments below it), "both cars are around $60K" and "both cars have around 700HP". I never checked but where did the "$70K" Roush price quote come from? It's not in the video.... (END EDIT)

 

 

You keep trying to compare a $54K Shelby to a $70K Roush, but they're NOT comparable. Remove all the shit the Roush has on it, other than the engine and how much would it be? Take a Mustang GT, add a 5.0 Aluminator and a 2.3L TVS and that's going to be *close*...No?

 

NOW what's the price comparison? And since you're so dead set on saying the suspension plays no part in the 1/4 mile times, that should be a apples/apples comparison to a BASE Shelby....Again, No?

 

Cont....

 

 

Phill (I really should proof read BEFORE I post, keep editing for spelling/clarity)

[2010KonaBlueGT]

I would like you to acknowledge that the MSRP is of a GT500 is 15k less,

 

I acknowledge that the MSRP on a BASE GT500 is $15K less...

 

Now I would like *you* to acknowledge that a fully optioned GT500 is $500 less (than a RS3 ALUMINATOR), or $69.5K.

 

Cont.....

 

 

Phill

[2010KonaBlueGT]

...and that a fully optioned GT500 at 70k isnt going to run the 1/4 mile any faster than the base model GT500.

 

Does the base GT500 have the PP G-2 tires on it???

 

I'll go look. If NOT, then I will acknowledge that the PP/TP will make very little differene, other than adding weight and slowing the GT500 down a tad (which may or may not be made up by the G-2's vs. F-1's.)

 

Cont....

 

 

Phill (going to check to see if the PP/TP upgrades the tires....)

[2010KonaBlueGT]

 

Does the base GT500 have the PP G-2 tires on it???

 

I'll go look. If NOT, then I will acknowledge that the PP/TP will make very little differene, other than adding weight and slowing the GT500 down a tad (which may or may not be made up by the G-2's vs. F-1's.)

 

Cont....

 

 

Phill (going to check to see if the PP/TP upgrades the tires....)

 

I think I just made most of my whole argument moot (invalid?).

 

I took a quick look at the video and it LOOKS (to me) like they used a base or PP car (NOT a TP car as there are fog lamps on it).

 

Still trying to find the difference (primarily, tires) between a base and PP car....

 

 

Phill

[2010KonaBlueGT]

I have to take that last post back. I was able to freeze frame the GT5 on the front view and where I thought the cooler ducts are isn't where the fog lamps mount.

 

I still have to find out if the tires (and gears) are different on the PP/TP cars....

 

Anyone know, who can save me from wasting more time???

 

 

Phill

[2010KonaBlueGT]

I have to take that last post back. I was able to freeze frame the GT5 on the front view and where I thought the cooler ducts are isn't where the fog lamps mount.

 

I still have to find out if the tires (and gears) are different on the PP/TP cars....

 

Anyone know, who can save me from wasting more time???

 

 

Phill

 

The Ford.com site isn't being real user friendly to me right now (my mouse is F'd up and multi-clicks with each single click).

 

It looks like the wheels/tires/gear RATIO is the same for base or PP.

 

Equipment Group 821A shows, "TORSEN® DIFFERENTIAL, the same (19"/20" but painted) wheels, SVT BILSTIEN ELECTRONIC ADJUSTABLE DAMPERS (i.e. shocks & struts), unique REAR SPRINGS and instrument;/gauge cluster.

 

Now everybody knows that a Torsen diff, springs and shocks don't play ANY part in drag racing.....NOT!

 

You sure you want to stick with that logic, Dubb?

 

One more time. You are trying to minimize the Roush's performance by reducing the price of the GT5 and saying "if I put $15K into the Shelby it'd beat the Roush" but you're failing to make it a DIRECT comparison (price wise). You can't compare a 'base' to a optioned up car because the base doesn't have all of the extra options (i.e. COSTS) that are on the other car. Regardless of if it's a Roush or a Shelby.

 

The bottom line is, WHO GIVES A SHIT if the Roush beat the Shelby 2/3 times? Certainly not *me* (and obviously, YOU DO).

 

Is your ego really so frail that you can't admit a Roush beat a Shelby, fair and square? That's racing bud. Ya win some, ya lose some.

 

Come on man, I "know" you better than that. Get over it and stop trying to compare apples to oranges (my original contention). Otherwise, remove all of the options that make a RS3 that expensive and comparable to a "base" Shelby, THEN give me a price comparison.

 

Now put the amount of $$$ reduction into a 5.0 Mustang w/Aluminator & 2.3L TVS and tell me who will win (that's pretty clear as shown in MANY vids on Youtube).

 

Should I go over the rest of your post and continue line-by-line?

 

I will concede/admit that a base GT5 should give you CLOSE to the same results as a GT500/PP but after seeing the features on a PP, it won't be THAT close. I mean, springs, shocks and differential? Those are pretty substantial features.

 

 

 

Cont?

 

Phill

[DubbsFaris]

I stand by my original remark. I think the Roush is a great- said it from the start. But as most of you know, I owned a GT350, and I know the weak points of that build, which are the same weak points on the RS3. The car will perform brilliantly, and SHOULD be able to beat the stock GT500. It would be foolish of Roush to build a car that fell short of that objective in my opinion. I also went off someone's 70k pricetag for the Roush, so excuse me if I am wrong on that as well. I honestly never verified that.

 

Again, my point was to illustrate that the GT500 had room to grow if you buy it without options. (Of course, I almost always buy fully loaded cars because the small amount extra in price is not a factor to me.) You say that the PP and TP should help the Shelby in performance, but those damn tires not hooking up would negate a full griggs setup. They just suck. (Although fun for powersliding on a daily drive) I really dont think you get performance with the Torsen upgrade, its just beefier, right? The adjustable dampers? I remember on Top Gear BBC they tested adjustable dampers, and the car ran identical laps in normal and sport, and did a tenth of a second better on comfort. (LOL) But that was a road course. I would be VERY interested to see if there has been a test between a base GT500 and loaded GT500 in the 1/4 head to head. Love to see the results.

 

However, I digress, the main point was that after reading sticky topics on SVTPerformance, there are 5.8s running in the 9s with right around 4-5k in mods. Think about that for a moment. What car could you ever buy from a dealership, slap on a couple bolt ons, and get a sub 10s street legal car? Its amazing to me, so while I realize the GT500 has faster competition out there, from a stock car standpoint, its damn impressive.

 

I could care less if the Roush won. Shite dude, if a 1978 King Cobra Mustang II crushed the GT500, it wouldnt affect my ego at all. I like it for what it does for me. Results may vary.

My carrying on is based on YOUR responses, because I felt they were out of character for who YOU have always seemed to be. I was, (and still am) extremely perplexed why there are a few- (check SVTPerformance site for additional phenomena on this very topic) GT500 owners who seem to completely discount the engineering in the GT500. Calling it a modded GT is just a ridiculous notion to me. Those on that site that say that directly I think are trolls, but then when I hear it from someone I am very familiar with, and who owns one, and who's takes on topics are usually in line with mine, and have such a departure from that in this case, I mean, it has me wondering where maybe I took a left turn, and everyone else went straight.

 

No need to go through the list of differences, no need to publish the millions spent on development of the GT500, but IF I were a Ford executive doing some cheap market research, lurking forums and stumbled upon a mass opinion that the time, money and labor spent developing the GT500 platform was wasted because there was a strong contigent in the ranks of that platform's owners that the car was simply a mustang GT, why in the world would I ever agree to spend one red cent on further development on anything more than the V6 and a V6 with an engine swap V8. I would privately have the opinion of - screw them, we will build the base models, and leave the performance hurdles for aftermarket companies like Roush and Saleen and Shelby. Luckily, it is a minority opinion, but one I just cant even wrap my mind around. (I had this very discussion with a Ford executive in Dearborn two weeks ago, which is why I touch on it now.)

[Secondo]

Wow I feel like I'm in high school again.

 

+1 Phil is out of character. I've seen many haters of the GT500, especially from the fox body/terminator crowd but never among our own. Maybe some aren't accepting the fact that the '13-14's are the top dog of the GT500's AND Mustangs.

 

Remember guys, this was just a Roush salesman produced video.

[NMAv]

[2010KonaBlueGT]

I stand by my original remark.....

 

You know what they say about opinions, right W?

 

"Opinions are like assholes...EVERYBODY has one and they ALL stink, except mine (your own)."

 

I know you realize what I own/drive but not sure if you are aware how I decided to buy a Shelby over a Roush...At the risk of repeating myself;

 

CAUTION: Long Story Ahead:

 

In the summer of '09 I saw a 2010 Grabber Blue w/Black stripes Roush 427R at a local show-n-shine car show. It was sitting at the end of a row with a few other S197's but all of them were '09 and earlier. I don't know what it was about the car but it reached out and grabbed me, right by the short-hairs. I fell in love with it and started drooling all over it, ohhh-ing and awww-ing to my wife. She looks at me and says, "You can afford it."...I replied, "Yeah, I KNOW!". And that was the beginning of my quest for a Blue w/white stripe hot-rod to fill the void I left behind in Cali (I had 5 VERY collectable '70-'73 Pontiac Firebirds and 1 early 63 Pontiac Catalina 2-door, Hard top 4-spd that I had to sell because I couldn't haul them to or keep them in CO.).

 

I had heard about the GT500's when they first came out but really hadn't given one a second thought because of the CRAZY prices I was hearing about. I hadn't ever seen one in person but a local dealer (and a Quarter Midget race associate/competitor) had one in his showroom and true to form, he was asking the crazy dealer mark-up prices they were getting in '07 so I didn't even bother looking at it (I've said it before and I'll say it again, my "line in the sand" is NO DEALER MARK-UP!).

 

Let me back up a couple of feet; Before moving from California to Colorado in early 2006 I had a 1970 Pontiac Trans-Am RAIV 4-speed, White with a blue stripe. But since "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" I always wanted a Blue with a white stripe '70 TA (they only made them White/blue or Blue/white). So I wanted a (not Grabber) Blue Mustang with White stripes, Roush or Shelby, I didn't care which one at that point.

 

After I picked the brain on the Roush owner for what probably seemed (to him) like it was all day long, and as I was starting to walk away, I asked him something about the GT500's. I don't even remember what but his answer was telling. He kind of brushed it off with a "blah" type of reply. That in itself told me that the Roush owner felt they are "better" than the Roush (it's easier to belittle the other guy than to tell me why your guy is better than mine). I figured his reply meant I really needed to look into a GT500 before buying a Roush 427R..

 

I stared searching the Internet and I found a Kona Blue w/white stripes optioned to the hilt, 2010 Kona Blue/white Roush 427R sitting on the dealer showroom floor, no more than about 5 miles away from me. Shoot, TOO EASY! At the same time I was also searching the Internet for a 2010 Kona Blue/white GT500. I found many but none REAL close (one was in Albuquerque NM, a EASY 1-day drive to/from Co. Springs).

 

I went on the Ford.com "build one" page to see what options were available and what the price was to compare to the 427R i found locally. I wanted the Electronics Package, HID headlights and a car cover (as much as you could get in 2010). I entered the information into the Ford site; I got a phone call from Ford Corporate asking me what it would take to get me in that car and I told them NO DEALER MARK-UP! They made a appointment for me to talk with the local Ford dealer (SAME one with the 427R sitting in the showroom). Then the day after that I got a e-mail saying "I have one EXACTLY like that due to arrive in 10 days". Being the TOTAL skeptic I am I thought, "yeah, EXACTLY like that except it's Red, with black stripes, Shaker 1000 (no electronic pack), etc. Didn't know who it was from but kept my appointment with the Ford dealer and walked in to talk.

 

Nobody at the dealer had ANY idea who I was and said the guy I had a APPOINTMENT with (Mike Chimino, the owners son) was on the road and wouldn't be back so I couldn't meet with him. Who made the appointment, when was it made, blah X 3. I was PISSED and just as I was about to turn around and walk out the door, their SVT Manager came up and tried to smooth things out. I told him who I was and what I wanted and it turns out, HE was the one that sent me the e-mail saying they have a Kona Blue w/white, HID, Electroncs Pack, Car Cover GT500 coming in. The owner of the local Harley-Davidson store ordered it, then when he was told it would be in shortly he backed out because business was going south (he actually ended up closing one of his two stores so he wasn't lying).

 

So before committing to the Roush or the Shelby, I told them I wanted to see them side-by-side. I did, I went over the differences in a recent post (no need to repeat them) and decided the Shelby was for me. And in fact, one of the biggest reasons I went with a Shelby over a Roush is because as many have pointed out. the Roush is pretty much maxed out as they come. I like to build my cars & engines up and I wasn't going to be able to do NEAR as much with a Roush as I could with a Shelby (with the engine available at that time).

 

So here I am with a Shelby. NOT a Roush. Frankly, I have the money to buy a RS3 Aluminator if I wanted to but I don't. So much for the guys that say I like Roush over Shelby.

 

I was thinking about trading my 2010 in on a '13 when they first came out. I was at the dealer every day awaiting the first arrival. And when I went into the (same) dealer they actually talked me out of trading mine for a '13, telling me I have WAY more than the 2013 has NOW (other than the electronic bells/whistles) and that I'd be crazy to 'trade down'. So much for me "hating" the 2013-2014 statement made by someone who knows *shit* about me.

 

I just find it so odd that there are people who will sit here and make excuses for the Shelby losing out to the Roush when the video speaks for itself. Biased? I think not. Listen to what the guy says at the end, after the races. Bad drivers? They're both experienced NHRA Sportsman drivers, not some goofball they dragged in off of the street. Driver weight? 50 pounds made the precious Shelby lose the race.

 

Gimme a break. Like I said from the start, it's SIMPLE PHYSICS. Less weight, more power and Ti-VCT.

 

 

The Emperor is naked,

 

Phill

[2010KonaBlueGT]

 

 

 

Phill

[Secondo]

Wow, Phill, that's TMI but I'm glad you made the right choice in the end.

[NMAv]

Like I said earlier, just like being with the in-laws ....

[JeffJ]

Are we all better now? Phill, you have been overly grumpy lately. I hope all is going well in your world buddy. I know that you know drag racing well enough to know that the Torsion diff will not help in drag racing. Gears yes, diff, not so much as long as both tires are putting the power down. It certainly will last longer, but if anything it will hurt drag racing due to the increase in rotating mass. Stiffer suspension will actually hurt drag racing as now there is not as much weight transfer and actually again, more weight in the car. So a fully loaded GT500 would I say, be slower in the 1/4 than faster. Should be a better track car, but not for the drag strip. Base GT500 should actually be faster. I think we all agree that both cars are absolute monsters and awesome machines. These two are probably pretty equal in the 1/4, but that is not the end of the story as we all know. Heck, I can build a 10 second Fox easily for around 15K if that's all we're going for. But that will never be a Shelby or a Roush. Warren, you are not one for holding back your feelings and beliefs at any time! One of the things I like about you! You know that can be good, but sometimes not so. Things can certainly be read wrong on the internet and sometimes, intentions not taken as intended. I'm glad to have both of you as friends!

As always, keep the conversations lively, but don't let this stuff get to you. We all have families and getting angry over a silly video, is not worth the bad attitude that can be taken from here. Peace out!

[2010KonaBlueGT]

Are we all better now? Phill, you have been overly grumpy lately.

 

Nah. Mostly just fishing!

 

 

Phill

[2010KonaBlueGT]

I know that you know drag racing well enough to know that the Torsion diff will not help in drag racing.

 

Actually, from what I know the Torsen is BETTER on a road course but still helps traction on a strip.

 

I'm "up" on the nomenclature with GM/Dana but not so much with Ford so I may be totally off base with "what I know"...GM/Dana is easy. Posi-traction, a clutch pack or cone style "limited slip" carrier. Spool (or on the dirt track cars, welded spiders with the Amps cranked WAY up on the welder) and some exotic (money) guys ran lockers that used air pressure to lock/unlock.

 

Ford? All I know is what I've read on the Internet since buying my GT500 in 2009.

 

And yeah, you're right. I've been around drag racing for... eesh, ever....Well, longer than I want to admit.

 

Not as a driver (my virgin run was last month at PMP) but as a builder/tuner. We ran Ford 9" on the '29 Bantam Altered and the Junior Fueler but that was real simple. Put a spool in it and be done.

 

 

Gotta go, I hear a few MGD's calling my name!

 

Phill

[DubbsFaris]

Jeff, its true buddy! Both my best and worst qualities. Dare I say a repeating theme with so many of us crazy humans! Lol

Nah. Mostly just fishing!

 

Phill

Now you're talkin!

 

Thanks for the background Phill. Good to know you aren't cross with your GT500. But I had to ask.

 

I promise I haven't had a harsh feeling over this topic.

[Secondo]

Here's some facts, published performance data for the '13-'14 GT500:

 

0-60 MPH: 3.5 secs

1/4 Mile Time: 11.8 Secs

Top Speed: 202 MPH

[2010KonaBlueGT]

Here's some facts, published performance data for the '13-'14 GT500:

 

0-60 MPH: 3.5 secs

1/4 Mile Time: 11.8 Secs

Top Speed: 202 MPH

 

I'd be careful about using the word "facts" in those specs. Those are *Fords* "facts".

 

The 202 MPH top speed has yet to be achieved by ANYONE.

 

Not sure about the 0-60 or the 1/4 mile ET figures though.

 

 

Phill

[Secondo]

I found more 0-60 tests at 3.5 and a 1/4 mile of 11.7. I'll look to see if I could find more top speed tests.

[2010KonaBlueGT]

I found more 0-60 tests at 3.5 and a 1/4 mile of 11.7. I'll look to see if I could find more top speed tests.

 

The one that stands out to me was by a magazine crew, I think it was motor trend.

 

They were on a big track but could only get 198mph out of it (still, VERY respectable IMO) and said if they had *another* mile of track they might be able to see 200.

 

NOT a standing mile, but a flying mile (the 198 mph).

 

 

Phill

[JeffJ]

 

The one that stands out to me was by a magazine crew, I think it was motor trend.

 

They were on a big track but could only get 198mph out of it (still, VERY respectable IMO) and said if they had *another* mile of track they might be able to see 200.

 

NOT a standing mile, but a flying mile (the 198 mph).

 

 

Phill

 

Randy Pobst is a racing friend of mine. I talked to him about that test (he was driving), he said that if it were 10 degrees cooler, they would have easily reached over 200. It just would not cool down when they had the opportunity in the hot Arizona desert.