REAL ONE Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDB Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Unless SAI is going too say Yeomans is completely lying, I don't see how they are ever going to respond to that. I suppose the *crickets* by Tob and all the GT500 owners mirrors that sentiment as well. Again, congrats to all the guys who bought a set. I have no problem with you for taking advantage of that opportunity at KR owner's expense. It wasn't your fault, and I never tried to imply that was. Likewise, hopefully you can understand how my strongly passionate response was because of my initial gut-feelings being true, and just my incredible disappointment with the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tob Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 They weren't drop shipped from Shelby to the customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDB Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Ford Racing never got to see them as well as us... They weren't drop shipped from Shelby to the customer. Then who are you saying that shipped them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tob Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Ford called in their inventory to Ford Racing who had sold them to FRPP dealers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDB Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 As someone else asked, who owns the other 50%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tob Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 As far as I know, the only players in the wheel deal were Ford (or Ford Racing in this case along with FRPP dealers) and SAI. Far from the whole story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDB Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Thank you, but that's not what I asked. Who owns the other 50%? I am referring to the photo of the sticker on the pallet that you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REAL ONE Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 I'm sure SAI could stop all this banter and speculating with an explanation. It clearly appears to some or many that SAI had a role here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyKR664 Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Agreed, time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDB Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 It isn't going to happen Real One. Conveniently, Jer has basically blamed me for that (nice way to treat your customer base, huh?). Oh, and remember the "waaaaaaaay off" comment too by Jer? ...my guess of $100/wheel is probably pretty close to what Ford Racing sold them for. 100% markup? WAAAAAAAAAY off. That's a great assumption I wish were true. Jer Well Jer, go back to page 2 and I'm not the only one who thinks 100% markup is accurate. If I had to take a guess I'd say they must have paid around $100 or less per wheel from FRPP. Steve Quite frankly, if you want to show me the Invoice from Plasan (the one that your customer base is under the impression that SAI didn't pay), I'll gladly pay 100% markup and take 2 right now. Remember that old adage "the customer is always right"? Well, it actually has nothing to do with being right or wrong. It only has to do with the customer's perception and if they will want to spend money with you. Let me tell you a true story.... From the moment I saw the KR, I wanted it. Now that I have it, nothing in this thread is going to dilute my appreciation for it, or make me want to sell it. BUT... ...when people hear stories about the way a company does business, it formulates a perception, which ultimately equates to sales or no sales. It started with $32k hoods, then $16k hoods, then police reports and sending damaged goods back, then not paying invoices, then lawsuits, then release of KR parts to the GP. Now that we're up to that point, that's where I come in, because that's about the time I bought my KR. Like most, I contacted Shelby right away to get in the register, and get some quotes for parts. As stated, the $1500 price for wheels/tires was fair, but I didn't do it b/c I had a previous bad experience with UPS shipping them that way. I also requested a quote from Shelby for something else, which was roughly $75,650.00 (give or take a couple hundred bucks). That would have been the invoice price from Shelby to me, prior to tax. (for the sake of this thread, the rep or the quoted project is not important, but if SAI execs want to investigate, I'm sure they'll find notes) About that time, the re-release of the 20" wheels was announced. I asked Jer if I could get a blank set, knowing that it's easier and cheaper to leave it off rather that put the "Fifty Years" on. Answer was nope. Okay fine, no 20" wheels for me. Obviously disappointed, and couldn't help but add that log to the fire regarding my perception of SAI. I stand by my opinion that the "Fifty Years" does not belong on any car, but only in the Shelby gift shop next to the coffee mugs. The Fifty Years issue made me hold off on that $75,000 purchase. Since almost all of Shelby's offerings are discretionary (buy it when you are ready), I know that there's no hurry to pull the trigger and I just put it on the back burner. I am not lying when I say that it was still alive up until a few days prior to this thread about the KR wheels, when I was visiting a friend out-of-state and told him what I had gotten the quote from Shelby for. So here comes this thread about KR wheels. How Shelby could not see that KR owners would have a problem with this, or decide to not proactively offer an explanation to smooth it over with KR owners, is way beyond me. Like I said, I will not sell my KR because of any of this. But I also will not agree to a $75,000 purchase with SAI because of how I perceive their customer service. It's really as simple as that. FWIW: the only reason I ever mentioned pricing or margins was the round-about way of showing SAI that customers are aware of the behind-the-scenes dynamics. As Tob could probably attest to, I could do that $75,000 job myself for half that using the same Ford Racing parts that SAI would use, but I would have preferred that Shelby to do the work, and would have been willing to pay the premium for that. Customers will never complain about 100%, 200% or even 1600% markups as long as they have a positive feeling about the company that they are doing business with. But if you erode that perception away with poor decisions, then eventually you will lose your customers. In the case of the KR wheels, it was the tiniest detail of forgetting about your KR base by not offering an official and complete explanation. Whether assumptions are correct or not, it really doesn't matter. This potential customer has formed the perception that SAI had the ability to influence or direct the sale of these rims while maintaining the exclusivity to KR owners, but chose not to. And SAI certainly chose not to explain it to KR owners in a clear and concise manner on this thread when they had the opportunity. There's a lot of content here. So before anyone picks it apart, just remember that these are just my opinions and my experience. And sometimes it takes an unhappy customer to influence internal changes for the better (if a company strives to get better, that is). I still LOVE my Ford Mustang Shelby GT500KR. Props to Ford and Shelby for building such a great car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2010KonaBlueGT Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 I just find it SO hard to believe that some of you feel you are somehow "entitled" to know the business practice, and/or business decisions made by Shelby American, simply because you bought or own a vehicle modified by Shelby. There is something called "need to know" and "nice to know". This is NOT a "need to know" issue. It's really none of your business, it's Shelby's business. And furthermore, WHAT DOES IT MATTER (if Shelby was involved)?? It's done, it's water under the bridge, there's nothing anyone can do about it. I'm not at ALL happy that the KR wheels were sold in the quantity they were sold in, or sold so cheap, or sold the the GP...because I paid a WHOLE LOT MORE (full price) for mine and this just devalued them for when I go to sell them (which has been my plan all along). But you don't see *me* bitching about it, do you? What's done is done. It is what it is. Shit happens...And any other saying that may apply. Wow, Phill Pollard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2010KonaBlueGT Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Who owns the other 50%? This is a honest question, not a slam...No disrespect intended. What does it matter (who owns the other 50%)? Will knowing the answer change anything? No, seriously. Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tob Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Thank you, but that's not what I asked. Who owns the other 50%? I am referring to the photo of the sticker on the pallet that you posted. I understand what you asked JDB. With only only two parties and one at 50%, it kind of narrows down who the other party is and what their portion could be. I'm sure SAI could stop all this banter and speculating with an explanation. It clearly appears to some or many that SAI had a role here. REAL ONE, try thinking hypothetically for a moment. If Ford owned half of the KR wheels and Shelby the other half (with most all of them stored at Shelby's facility) and Ford decided that "time was up", and it was time to move the inventory, do you think they may have asked SAI if they wanted to purchase their 50% so that in effect SAI would now have control over all of the wheels? Let's assume they did. At that point SAI would have two choices, either buy them or let them go. If they buy them from Ford they would then be sitting not only on the stock they already had but they could now consider Ford's share their own as well. How many wheels would now be sitting on the shelves at SAI? We know it would have been more than 400. How much would it have cost SAI? At the going sales rate, at what year would the majority of the wheels finally have been sold? You understand that as time passes that the demand for the wheels to KR owners only, diminishes or already has diminished. So they would sit and tie up what is probably necessary working capital, for many years to come. So somebody or some body had to make a business decision. And nobody outside SAI or Ford knows if Shelby had the funds to spend on what would in effect become, museum pieces. Their financial history hints at them not having a lot of extra cash. SAI was admittedly in a tough spot. With much of the team at SAI that made the KR a reality now gone, is it really fair to someone like Jer to bear the brunt of the unease here? Much of this was decided before his arrival at Shelby, I'm quite sure. So when Ford asks for their parts you give them their parts. And if CSBI was in better shape, I suppose an arrangement could or would have been worked out. On edit... As Tob could probably attest to, I could do that $75,000 job myself for half that using the same Ford Racing parts that SAI would use, but I would have preferred that Shelby to do the work, and would have been willing to pay the premium for that. Customers will never complain about 100%, 200% or even 1600% markups as long as they have a positive feeling about the company that they are doing business with. But if you erode that perception away with poor decisions, then eventually you will lose your customers. I can't argue with that JDB. The way I see it, if SAI (and their parent company) had the money, they would do everything in their power to please their customer base. Except it's been a rocky road and I'm quite sure that some of the decisions they've had to make have been done with the knowledge that some (customers) may not be happy with them. They're in a tough spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDB Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 ...simply... Phill, the car was marketed around the very basis of exclusivity. There is nothing "simple" or benign about that. It was calculated and orchestrated, and added value to the car, both real and perceptually. Will knowing the answer change anything? No, seriously. Yes, it will change my perception of SAI to know the truth. Thank you very much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDB Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 How much would it have cost SAI? $40,000.00 Not to mention the fact that all sold within 2 weeks, which would've netted SAI an additional $40,000.00 in profit. With the success of their Fifty Years re-release and the quantity they sold (albeit pre-sale and no risk to them), they have the experience to know that moving 100 sets to 7% of the KR owners with a "buy it in the next 30 days or they get released to the GP" sales effort would likely have worked very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tob Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 they have the experience to know that moving 100 sets to 7% of the KR owners with a "buy it in the next 30 days or they get released to the GP" sales effort would likely have worked very well. To be fair, that's a pretty big assumption on your part. We all know that they had tried to move the wheels in the past - to KR owners only. Were I a KR owner concerned about GP sales, seeing "buy it in the next 30 days or they get released to the GP" in print would make me feel a bit extorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlugs Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 This is a honest question, not a slam...No disrespect intended. What does it matter (who owns the other 50%)? Will knowing the answer change anything? No, seriously. Phill Phil, historians would still like to know,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDB Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Were I a KR owner concerned about GP sales, seeing "buy it in the next 30 days or they get released to the GP" in print would make me feel a bit extorted. Absolutely correct Tob. But, the alternative in this case was worse. EITHER case could have been enhanced with positive communication from SAI...which costs them nothing. That, they failed to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tob Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 So if they sold, let's say 30 sets (and I feel that to be very optimistic), to genuine KR owners, what do they do with the remaining seventy? Pay for them and add them to the collection they already have? Sell them to anyone with the money? Again, Ford (Ford Racing) decided enough time had passed and wanted to convert wheels into cash. Why not try blaming Ford instead? Edit: math fail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDB Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Obviously the GP snapped them up, Tob. If you're looking for a "guaranteed formula" for sales, then you are seeking the holy grail of what every business owner seeks. If Shelby said today that they have 100 KR hoods, are moving to a new facility and had to move them, were at the end of their warranty-stocking requirements, and were offering them to KR owners at 100% markup first for 30 days before going to the GP...I'll bet you a KR hood that every hood would sell within 72 hours. Guaranteed? No. No business owner on the face of this earth can forecast "guaranteed" sales. Math win: you can't make a profit unless you sell something. Shelby missed an opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank bullitt Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 To be fair, that's a pretty big assumption on your part. We all know that they had tried to move the wheels in the past - to KR owners only. Were I a KR owner concerned about GP sales, seeing "buy it in the next 30 days or they get released to the GP" in print would make me feel a bit extorted. Personally, I wouldn't have felt extorted. Especially if SAI said Ford wants their half gone and the business case can not be made for us to buy them and sit on them. So KR owners, you have 30 days to pony up, or shut up.....in so many words. Regardless of when KR owners bought their cars, we all paid something to keep KR parts out of the hands of the public. As has been pointed out, some of the KR parts were cross over parts used on other Fords. Of course those should be made available to anyone. KR engraved parts or the hood and the associated hardware that is 100% KR specific should never make it to the public - without at least first giving a hard deadline to the men and women who paid for the privilege of owning those parts as part of the KR package. How can Shelby the company protect their brand and their profit margins if every past and prospective customer wonders how long it will be until their cars' parts are dumped on the open market for wholesale prices?? Which group of owners gets burned next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDB Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 If Shelby said today that they have 100 KR hoods, are moving to a new facility and had to move them, were at the end of their warranty-stocking requirements, and were offering them to KR owners at 100% markup first for 30 days before going to the GP...I'll bet you a KR hood that every hood would sell within 72 hours. Additionally... SAI, if you're looking for a good way to move those KR parts, why not send out private messages, e-mails, or mailers to the KR owners in your highly guarded registry that so many of us volunteered our info to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2010KonaBlueGT Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Yes, it will change my perception of SAI to know the truth. Thank you very much Okay, fair (and honest) enough. So it's all about *you*, and not about Shelby American's business practices? Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tob Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Additionally... SAI, if you're looking for a good way to move those KR parts, why not send out private messages, e-mails, or mailers to the KR owners in your highly guarded registry that so many of us volunteered our info to? JDB, honestly, how many times does SAI have to attempt to sell them to KR owners? If they told you they didn't have the money to buy them up just to keep them locked away into eternity - did you say you'd have been happy if they simply told you as such even with Ford Racing moving the remaining inventory (Ford's inventory that is...)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDB Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 2 weeks is eternity? If SAI can't write a $40,000 check to make $40,000 profit in 2 weeks, then SAI is not going to be in business too much longer. They are lucky to have such strong brand perception and customer loyalty to derive such higher margins. And if all else fails, it's just like selling a house: lower the price (margin), and it will sell. (or open the market to the GP) If they told you they didn't have the money to buy them up... Why do people keep pitching the idea that Shelby has no money and is in such dire condition? Are they not moving to a newer and expanded facility? Does the growth and prosperity of expansion really equate to tough financial times for you guys? Or are you being "marketed" this disparity by Shelby, in the same way they "marketed" exclusivity with the KR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra99 Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Didn't they do this 2 years ago? Yes they didn't say 'buy or else' but IMHO it was offered. I still don't see why your busting SAI balls since they didn't sell these Ford did. Lots of people are making big assumptions regarding these that they have NFC about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDB Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Didn't they do this 2 years ago? No. Two years ago they opened the sales of KR parts to KR owners without requiring a police report, warranty or insurance claim, or sending old parts back. They also trickled sales of certain KR parts to the GP...parts that were not perceived to be exclusive enough to cause as much concern by KR owners as the KR-engraved wheels to the GP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheppd01 Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Or are you being "marketed" this disparity by Shelby, in the same way they "marketed" exclusivity with the KR? Well I am off on vacation. I am going to try not to read this thread the entire time. 1,200 miles one way and taking both mustangs. Now just have to decide if I want to go to the Ponies on the Plains. Most likely just stopping by but taking the helmet just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheppd01 Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Lots of people are making big assumptions regarding these that they have NFC about. Yes and all these assumptions could easily go away.................................................... crickets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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