Tob Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 Yes' date=' that is the Griggs Rear Anti-Roll Bar and it will only work on a Griggs Chassis and the changes in the Griggs Watts Link negate the OEM Sway bar or the need for it. The Anti-Roll bar is more of a fine tuning point and I've got a number of customers running open track without the anti-roll bar.[/quote'] I've seen a number of track cars in print without them or if they have one the diameter is a bit smaller than stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Not to change this to a topic on sway bars . The FR500S and FR500C had the optional 18mm rear sway bar available and accepted in the rules as an alternative to the 23mm rear bar. Some classes do not allow a rear sway bar and some times a rear bar is not needed . Use of a watts linkage does NOT negate the use or need of a rear sway bar. You can eliminate the use of a rear sway bar when using a true coil over rear shock/spring ( located outboard @ the OEM shock mount location ) setup when you are being allowed to change the rear spring rates on the coil overs and do the final tuning with an adjustable front sway bar. The new SFR SCCA SPEC MUSTANG class using the CorteX racing ( SPP track pack ) watts linkage , rear coilover setup , and prohibits the use of a rear sway bar according to the rules . Just a note ; FR500S ran a front spring rate of 500lbs/in and a rear rate of 300lbs/in. In SPEC MUSTANG it is a 500lbs/in front and a 425lbs/in rear on a 3475 lb.( combined driver and car ) weight . Race suspensions are quite different than what you will find or want on the street . This is why the W/L watts linkage needs to be looked at as " does it work well for the street " or is this another part that belongs on only "race cars". If you want the best for both then you will need to buy 2 cars. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrakRat Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Not to change this to a topic on sway bars . The FR500S and FR500C had the optional 18mm rear sway bar available and accepted in the rules as an alternative to the 23mm rear bar. Some classes do not allow a rear sway bar and some times a rear bar is not needed . Use of a watts linkage does NOT negate the use or need of a rear sway bar. You can eliminate the use of a rear sway bar when using a true coil over rear shock/spring ( located outboard @ the OEM shock mount location ) setup when you are being allowed to change the rear spring rates on the coil overs and do the final tuning with an adjustable front sway bar. The new SFR SCCA SPEC MUSTANG class using the CorteX racing ( SPP track pack ) watts linkage , rear coilover setup , and prohibits the use of a rear sway bar according to the rules . Just a note ; FR500S ran a front spring rate of 500lbs/in and a rear rate of 300lbs/in. In SPEC MUSTANG it is a 500lbs/in front and a 425lbs/in rear on a 3475 lb.( combined driver and car ) weight . Race suspensions are quite different than what you will find or want on the street . This is why the W/L watts linkage needs to be looked at as " does it work well for the street " or is this another part that belongs on only "race cars". If you want the best for both then you will need to buy 2 cars. JMO I have all of the above. I have the SB on them middle hole to dial in a little oversteer with the watts at the 2nd lowest setting as there was a bit too much when in the configuration in the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Now TrakRat that is a beautiful thang ( and even a torque arm to boot ) B) But some street drivers are looking for setups a little more pothole worthy .In looking at the picture one can see how low the pivot point on the watts is ( it can be placed down to as low as being level with the drain plug on the differential cover) and how small the diameter ( and short the length )of the rear bar is on the Griggs unit . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2010KonaBlueGT Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Now TrakRat that is a beautiful thang..... Yeah it is! I can see it's a Griggs Racing but I'm wondering if that's a Ford Racing axle girdle or a GR? One of the main reasons I'm not thinking about a Watts Link/age is because I really don't want to give up my FRPP girdle. I know. I could sell it, the Shelby Panhard bar and panhard body brace but it's still throwing money in the trash. Had I been more educated on suspensions I'd have gone a different route to start with (that and I'm a straight-line guy, not a corner carver). I've always set-up cars to go LEFT and I'm pretty good at it. One time the promoter pulled a slick one on us and ran us clock-wise...We went from our normall 1st place position to dead last! That GR setup sure is purty! Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 svt13, Can't wait to hear your comments on the W/L watts, If I may suggest - use high temp silicone on the mount bolt threads of the x-brace mount bolts and on the threads of the pivot bolt ( any bolt going into aluminum really ) instead of using locktite ,so in case you need to change the setting height you won't take the chance of mulling the threads when taking the bolts out . JMO P.S. - To all members living on the east coast - our thoughts and prayers are with you all during the storm - may you and your families come through safe and sound. Some of the guys in the 129th are flying out of Moffet Field today to aid those in need. Safe passage to all. So I just ordered the watts link and whiteline UCA with it so I'll do a review. Going to install watts link only first to see if there is a noticeable difference. Got them both for 15% off . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnf Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Spoke with the guys at Whiteline at SEMA. I think you will be happy with their products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03 DSG Snake Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 So I just ordered the watts link and whiteline UCA with it so I'll do a review. Going to install watts link only first to see if there is a noticeable difference. Got them both for 15% off . Looking forward to the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted November 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Spoke with the guys at Whiteline at SEMA. I think you will be happy with their products. Haven't you been following along? The WhiteLine link has been tested on some of the finest keyboards and proven to be of inferior design, prone to structural failure and destined to dissatisfy. Even if it exceeds your expectations, you're not allowed to enjoy it. :angry2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Haven't you been following along? The WhiteLine link has been tested on some of the finest keyboards and proven to be of inferior design, prone to structural failure and destined to dissatisfy. Even if it exceeds your expectations, you're not allowed to enjoy it. :angry2: Madlock -So good to hear that you have made it through the storm and things are back to normal . Just like they told the 129th " We don't need your help - go back home " after coming out to help those in need . You'll be happy to know that after 15+ years of putting Whiteline products onto Subaru's and other imports ( in which some of their products have worked very well ) that I've purchased ($350 - again no costs to you) their anti-dive bushings for the front LCA from their newly developed S197 product line to see if this single change will make a significant difference . Will save that unbiased and objective opinion for a different posting . Meanwhile I'll let you back to your marathon of posting (I think svt13 has taken the lead now) and let you enjoy your decisions for say maybe the next four years . I'll just stick with my years of education and experiences in the automotive field to guide myself and any others that want to learn from it or just listen. Knowing that your OK and your expectations have been exceeded gives me a sigh of relief . Stay strong my friend and may GOD bless . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickshelby Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 By reading this thread I finally made some serious decisions. I am going to try that IRS kit for the S197, bolt a watts link to it and add a torque arm up front with a transverse leaf spring. As the watts eliminate the need for a sway bar, should I also install one in the front? What about a four wheel drive conversion kit? I might even add a rear electrical steering box and a "call over" system on all four corners... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted November 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 By reading this thread I finally made some serious decisions. I am going to try that IRS kit for the S197, bolt a watts link to it and add a torque arm up front with a transverse leaf spring. As the watts eliminate the need for a sway bar, should I also install one in the front? What about a four wheel drive conversion kit? I might even add a rear electrical steering box and a "call over" system on all four corners... FINALLY. Somebody's at long last talking sense around here. Just watch out for the NVH, which means "Not Very Happy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickshelby Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 FINALLY. Somebody's at long last talking sense around here. Just watch out for the NVH, which means "Not Very Happy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Looking forward to the results. Maybe someday - looks like svt13 may be the only one left - best one out of three ? May not want to place your bets just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave 316 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 has anybody seen any pics of svt13's mods or even a car for that matter? may hoist the BS flag soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 has anybody seen any pics of svt13's mods or even a car for that matter? may hoist the BS flag soon My car is in the photo gallery......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy49 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 My car is in the photo gallery......... Parts of A car are in your photo gallery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted November 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Parts of A car are in your photo gallery. Like the Canadian girlfriend wallet photo from uncle Rico there Napoleon? I'd have expected to find an mp3 of ambient cabin noise posted first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Parts of A car are in your photo gallery. Lol ok Snoopy its not my car I'm just so lucky as to have someone with a shelby thats lives near me that I could sneak into their garage to take pics of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Based upon your list of mods - lack of ability to add only a W/L watts and give a response on just that one change - I'd have to call STRIKE 3 on this and say ARRG!!! HOIST THE FLAG ME MATTES - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Based upon your list of mods - lack of ability to add only a W/L watts and give a response on just that one change - I'd have to call STRIKE 3 on this and say ARRG!!! HOIST THE FLAG ME MATTES - I need the watts link first. Not my fault it hasn't gotten here yet it's coming all the way from California. And of course I can't add it I am not a mechanic sorry. I did get my bobs LCA today though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 I have the watts link. All parts will be going on sometime next week. I'll try to get some pictures of the install process and see if my mechanic can take pictures on his phone inbetween if he has time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 I have the watts link. All parts will be going on sometime next week. I'll try to get some pictures of the install process and see if my mechanic can take pictures on his phone inbetween if he has time. So does that mean that you're not going to JUST put on the W/L watts and then give us a post BEFORE loading up more parts ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 So does that mean that you're not going to JUST put on the W/L watts and then give us a post BEFORE loading up more parts ? Well I'm trying to convince my mechanic to just do the watts link first and do the rest the week after, but he is saying he is super busy with other builds and such. I will try and see what I can do since I am on his time. He is the only one I trust to do something like this. He said he'll tell me his schedule for this week so maybe if he has an opening earlier in the week, I ask him to put the watts on first only just so we can see the difference from stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickshelby Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Well I'm trying to convince my mechanic to just do the watts link first and do the rest the week after, but he is saying he is super busy with other builds and such. I will try and see what I can do since I am on his time. He is the only one I trust to do something like this. He said he'll tell me his schedule for this week so maybe if he has an opening earlier in the week, I ask him to put the watts on first only just so we can see the difference from stock. Doing what? Drive around the block? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickshelby Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 What I mean is: Have a systematic approach to it. Do a routine on a road you know well and were the cops NEVER go... :-) Try to analyse how your car reacts at a certain speed on a certain joint or on a rough part in a corner or in a weight transition. And duplicate all of that after ONE mod is being done. Like the watts...! Otherwise your evaluation is just an impression, nothing else. Just my two cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 What I mean is: Have a systematic approach to it. Do a routine on a road you know well and were the cops NEVER go... :-) Try to analyse how your car reacts at a certain speed on a certain joint or on a rough part in a corner or in a weight transition. And duplicate all of that after ONE mod is being done. Like the watts...! Otherwise your evaluation is just an impression, nothing else. Just my two cents... Thank you Patrick I already know that lol. There are many roads with turns around here I have gone the same speed around or even lately tried to push the car and go faster to see how it handles itself. So since I've been driving it for 4 months now I'm very familiar with it at least on the roads I drive. But anyways I started my build thread so I'll be posting my reviews of everything on there. Unfortunately I think for the watts it may have to be done with the FRPP springs because my mechanic is not so happy about having to take that watts on and off 5x just to make other people happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickshelby Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Sometime in the euphoria of new improvements or bolt-ons, we forget to be efficient or organized in our comparisons... ME particularly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Sometime in the euphoria of new improvements or bolt-ons, we forget to be efficient or organized in our comparisons... ME particularly This is true. I have a lot of euphoria right now. Hopefully it doens't turn to dread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 Sometime in the euphoria of new improvements or bolt-ons, we forget to be efficient or organized in our comparisons... ME particularly It sure would be nice if they had a twelve step program for "mod addicts" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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