svtkeith Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 It baffles me why Ford didn't just put 3.55s in all GT500s from the start (and 3.73 in all Mustang GTs). As someone pointed out 3.31s are great for fuel economy and top speed...neither of which are a concern of mine with a GT500. going from 3.55 to 3.73 in my 2006 Mustang GT made better use of the 4.6L powerband and 5-speed gearing. I agree the gearing should have been 3.55's...my 04 Cobra had 3.55's and stock for stock it felt quicker than my 07 GT500 with the 3.31's..the trans gearing in the 07 GT500 was a little odd even with the 3.31's 1st gear was almost useless if you got on the go peddle you couldn't really let it wind in 1st you had to throw it in 2nd almost immediately...the 013 gears are way taller when I drove the 013 I could let it wind in 1st real good but yeah 3.55's in that car would work way better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 It baffles me why Ford didn't just put 3.55s in all GT500s from the start (and 3.73 in all Mustang GTs). As someone pointed out 3.31s are great for fuel economy and top speed...neither of which are a concern of mine with a GT500. going from 3.55 to 3.73 in my 2006 Mustang GT made better use of the 4.6L powerband and 5-speed gearing. Because fuel economy (gas guzzler) and top speed DO matter to Ford - whether they matter to you is almost incidental. And get ready for FAR more of the same as the asinine CAFE mandates come into effect more fully. Product mix and pricing will be influenced FAR more by the CAFE compliance makers need to achieve than anything having to do with production costs or anything customers otherwise prefer. It's just one more of the MANY things for which people will be left with only themselves to blame if they choose to do nothing this November and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 It baffles me why Ford didn't just put 3.55s in all GT500s from the start (and 3.73 in all Mustang GTs). As someone pointed out 3.31s are great for fuel economy and top speed...neither of which are a concern of mine with a GT500. going from 3.55 to 3.73 in my 2006 Mustang GT made better use of the 4.6L powerband and 5-speed gearing. If they put 3.55s then they wouldn't avoid the gas guzzler tax and get to 200 mph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT NAJA Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Because fuel economy (gas guzzler) and top speed DO matter to Ford - whether they matter to you is almost incidental. And get ready for FAR more of the same as the asinine CAFE mandates come into effect more fully. Product mix and pricing will be influenced FAR more by the CAFE compliance makers need to achieve than anything having to do with production costs or anything customers otherwise prefer. It's just one more of the MANY things for which people will be left with only themselves to blame if they choose to do nothing this November and beyond. +1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
662HP631TQ Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Boy Politics, BS, and Angriness resulted from a simple question that was answered in the second post.....This is rediculous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 200 MPH claimed top speed is important? To whom? Guys who read car magazines all day? Who in their right mind is going to attempt to pilot a Ford Mustang at 200 MPH? When launching a product intended to protect its turf from a brand new competitor like ZL1 which offers many things GT500 doesn't, the ability to quantify the performance improvements in terms your competitors can't even claim to match can be as important to the manufacturer as the actual year-on-year improvements themselves. Having spent much time this summer running my '12 at 160mph or better for long stretches over several days, I for one am looking forward to driving the '13 as close to its stated maximum as soon as possible. Funny how so many people presume to represent the ONLY buyer to whom a particular maker must appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 When launching a product intended to protect its turf from a brand new competitor like ZL1 which offers many things GT500 doesn't, the ability to quantify the performance improvements in terms your competitors can't even claim to match can be as important to the manufacturer as the actual year-on-year improvements themselves. Having spent much time this summer running my '12 at 160mph or better for long stretches over several days, I for one am looking forward to driving the '13 as close to its stated maximum as soon as possible. Funny how so many people presume to represent the ONLY buyer to whom a particular maker must appeal. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy49 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Has anyone, other than the factory, been able to break 200 MPH in a showroom stock 2013 GT500? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporDude Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Yeah...me But I was only dreaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2007tungstenGT500 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 If you are looking to run 200mph on a regular basis you should be on a race track and driving a turn-key racecar. Ford Racing sells whole race-ready cars as single part numbers for just that purpose. In my opinion, the 3.31s were put in there to help achieve gas mileage goals and reach 200mph...for MARKETING purposes. My point is that based on driving my GT500 with 3.31 and now 3.73s, I am convinced 3.55 are the optimal rear differential gears for the 5.4/5.8L powertrain from an OVERALL performance perspective for someone who is not going to routinely drive 200mph or care about a couple miles per gallon in gas savings. If I wanted a gas sipper, I'd buy a V6 or a completely different car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2007tungstenGT500 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Though I have yet to drive one, everything I've read about the '13 has indicated that the gearing is way too tall, especially 1st gear. Ford engineers changed a few of the gear ratios in the transmission and coupled with the taller 3.31 rear gears, have sacrificed overall drivability. If my '07 was too tall for my driving preferences with 3.31s, then I'm certain the '13 is too tall. Installing some 3.55 (or possibly 3.73 w/20" rims) would improve the FEEL of the car in each gear. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy49 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 I am convinced 3.55 are the optimal rear differential gears for the 5.4/5.8L powertrain from an OVERALL performance perspective for someone who is not going to routinely drive 200mph or care about a couple miles per gallon in gas savings. If I wanted a gas sipper, I'd buy a V6 or a completely different car. From your experience with the both the 3.31's and the 3.73's, why do you think the 3.55's would be better than the other gear sets? edit: I though you were talking about a 2013 GT500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2007tungstenGT500 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Mainly because Mustangs from the factory feel detuned in the lower RPMs...below 3,000 (presumably for safety). 3.31 is a taller ratio which translates into more torque to get it rolling from a stand-still. The feeling from the driver's seat is that of the car bogging down. Think of it like riding a 10-speed bicycle in top gear. It's very hard to pedal until you get moving. But once you get moving the faster you pedal, the further you go. With 3.73s, you are able to use less torque to get the car moving, but because the gearing is so short, it winds up very quickly to its maximum speed. Much like riding the same 10-speed in the lowest gear. You can pedal like hell, but you aren't going very far. So 3.31s are great for gas mileage because you can cruise at faster speeds with less effort (once in motion), whereas 3.73s are worse on gas mileage because you have to keep the engine at a higher RPM to cruise at the same speed. The tradeoff is that 3.73s, being shorter gears, enable faster acceleration. Based on my experience with a 2006 Mustang GT and now a highly-modified 2007 Shelby GT500, I think 3.73s are perfect for the Mustang GTs and 3.55 are perfect for the GT500s. Just my opinion, based on my own experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Mainly because Mustangs from the factory feel detuned in the lower RPMs...below 3,000 (presumably for safety). 3.31 is a taller ratio which translates into more torque to get it rolling from a stand-still. 3.31 (taller) gears have precisely the OPPOSITE effect than shorter (3.55/73) gearing upon net torque at the wheel. A secondary consideration when choosing the 3.31s was to REDUCE torque to help mitigate the propensity for wheel spin with SO much additional inherent torque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Idk why people want 3.73s. I still feel like your paying to shift more, have more wheel spin, and worse gas milage. Why do you all want to pay for that unless your drag racing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Simply amazing to see guys on an internet forum dilusional to the point of feeling competent to operate a passenger car at or anywhere near 200 MPH. This is some blatant stupidity for sure! Outshined only by apparently-blatant ignorance.. for sure! Having spent days running at 160mph-plus for hours on end, a limited-duration 200mph run is perfectly rational reasonable in the proper setting and conditions. I'd sure hate to live life limited by what you happen to believe to be dilusional [sic]. Idk why people want 3.73s. I still feel like your paying to shift more, have more wheel spin, and worse gas milage. Why do you all want to pay for that unless your drag racing? Because, depending on how a person happens intends to use the car most often, it can make it MUCH easier (and fun) to drive - especially with the taller 11-12 SVTPP and 13 rear wheel diameter which has the same net effect as prior models with 3.55s. Anybody whose primary interest is drag racing would be into the 4.10, 4.30 or 4.56 range with tires and suspension appropriate to the circumstances. Besides, what's with all the cost concern? A gear and pinion swap is about as cheap as a drivetrain modificaiton gets. And unless you happen to shift according to a reference card stuck to your airbag cover, shifting simply ouccurs differently - not necessarily more. With the right final drive gearing, it's even possible to drop first as a useful street driving gear altogether - especially on the 11-12's Tremec gearing. Close the manuals, put down the slide rule and get out and drive some more, man. Boy Politics, BS, and Angriness resulted from a simple question that was answered in the second post.....This is rediculous! Oy. Protective cups are available adjacent to the lobby as you enter the forum. I recommend titanium. Rediculous? Ok... I'll leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2007tungstenGT500 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 3.31 (taller) gears have precisely the OPPOSITE effect than shorter (3.55/73) gearing upon net torque at the wheel. A secondary consideration when choosing the 3.31s was to REDUCE torque to help mitigate the propensity for wheel spin with SO much additional inherent torque. i'm not talking about measured net torque at the wheels. i'm talking about how much torque is required to move the car with 3.31 vs 3.73. More torque is needed for 3.31 because it is a taller gear. less torque is needed for 3.73 because it is a shorter gear. and wheel spin occurs easily with both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2007tungstenGT500 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Idk why people want 3.73s. I still feel like your paying to shift more, have more wheel spin, and worse gas milage. Why do you all want to pay for that unless your drag racing? i'm talking about street driving, not drag racing, (in which 4.10 or shorter are more desirable). for aggressive street driving 3.73s are great because they keep engine revs higher in each gear, which keeps the engine in the power band (below 3,000 RPM not so powerful, but above 3,000 RPM these engines pull hard). for street driving in a GT500 i think 3.55s are better as they are a happy medium. again, i'm talking about a GT500. transmission gearing and wheel/tire size also play a part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2007tungstenGT500 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 to put it in perspective, my 2006 Mustang GT was only fun in 3rd gear with stock 3.55s. the 4.6L engine would pull hard in that gear. when i swapped those out and installed 3.73s, 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear were all fun. it just seemed better matched to the engine's power band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 i'm not talking about measured net torque at the wheels. i'm talking about how much torque is required to move the car with 3.31 vs 3.73. More torque is needed for 3.31 because it is a taller gear. less torque is needed for 3.73 because it is a shorter gear. and wheel spin occurs easily with both. Net torque at the wheels IS what moves the car - which is a product of the engine, transmission gear, final drive ratio and drive wheel tire circumference. You can't divorce any from the other. Idk why people want 3.73s. I still feel like your paying to shift more, have more wheel spin, and worse gas milage. Why do you all want to pay for that unless your drag racing? i'm talking about street driving, not drag racing, (in which 4.10 or shorter are more desirable). for aggressive street driving 3.73s are great because they keep engine revs higher in each gear, which keeps the engine in the power band (below 3,000 RPM not so powerful, but above 3,000 RPM these engines pull hard). for street driving in a GT500 i think 3.55s are better as they are a happy medium. again, i'm talking about a GT500. transmission gearing and wheel/tire size also play a part. Although I haven't done so because I also do a considerable amount of highway driving at speed, a far EASIER to drive configuration for everyday driving would be 4.10's or even 4.30's and forgetting about first for anything but a hill start. to put it in perspective, my 2006 Mustang GT was only fun in 3rd gear with stock 3.55s. the 4.6L engine would pull hard in that gear. when i swapped those out and installed 3.73s, 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear were all fun. it just seemed better matched to the engine's power band. While the 3.73's may have ALSO been better-matched to the 4.6L's power band, you ALSO increased the amount of torque relative to the 3.55 gears no matter what rev/gear you happen to be in until you reach a point of diminishing returns at the high end where it begins to limit horsepower at the wheel where it all matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2007tungstenGT500 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 >> 3.31 (taller) gears have precisely the OPPOSITE effect than shorter (3.55/73) gearing upon net torque at the wheel. A secondary consideration when choosing the 3.31s was to REDUCE torque to help mitigate the propensity for wheel spin with SO much additional inherent torque. i'm not talking about measured net torque at the wheels. i'm talking about how much torque is required to move the car with 3.31 vs 3.73. More torque is needed for 3.31 because it is a taller gear. less torque is needed for 3.73 because it is a shorter gear. and wheel spin occurs easily with both. >> Net torque at the wheels IS what moves the car - which is a product of the engine, transmission gear, final drive ratio and drive wheel tire circumference. You can't divorce any from the other. i'm not separating anything, we are saying the same thing in different ways... the shorter 3.73 produce LESS torque when measured at the rear wheels and you NEED LESS TORQUE to move the car. this is due to the fact that a shorter gear has a larger radius. wheel spin is EASIER the engine revs QUICKER from idle to redline. with the taller 3.55s you get MORE torque when measured at the rear wheels and you NEED MORE TORQUE to move the car. this is due to the fact that the gear itself has a smaller radius. wheel spin is NOT QUITE AS EASY (given the ridiculous amounts the 5.4L makes, it will spin anyway) and the engine revs SLOWER from idle to redline because you are moving the car over a greater distance with the taller (smaller readius) gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 the shorter 3.73 produce LESS torque when measured at the rear wheels with the taller 3.55s you get MORE torque when measured at the rear wheels This is the exact opposite of what happens. If you assume 100 ftlbs to the rear end, 3.55's yeild 355 ftlbs to the tire, and 3.73's yeild 373 ftlbs. However, you'd need less engine torque with the 3.73's to get the same wheel torque as with the 3.55's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtkeith Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 I think you guys are saying the same thing but in a different way!!.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrel 007 Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 My 2002 Saleen Extreme came with 425HP @ 6,400 RPM & 440 Lb/Ft of torque at 4000 RPM powered with a 2.3L Roots style SC. It has a Max Grip differential with 3.27 gears. I believe first gear is 3.34:1 ratio. If I tried to to make a quick acceleration into traffic from a dead stop by a normal take off to prevent wheel spin then once I got the car moving a little bit I would hammer it, the end result would be the car bogged and I had to wait for the RPM to climb above 2000 and it would take off like a screaming banshee. The car is supposed to have a hellacious top end but I have never gone above 145 MPH (been there 3 times) as it has never been on a track where I don't have to worry what pops up in front of me like a deer, dog, person car etc. Apparently my Shelby won't have this bog problem at lower RPM with all the massive torque, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman5000 Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Driving a street legal passenger vehicle at 200 MPH is "perfectly rational and reasonable". That is an absolutely unbelieveable statement even from a guy who drives at over 160 MPH for hours on end! Simply amazing stuff. Dude, your jealousy, envy, whatever problem you have with anyone who owns a 13 GT500 is just ridiculous . First on SVT, and now here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Dude, your jealousy, envy, whatever problem you have with anyone who owns a 13 GT500 is just ridiculous . First on SVT, and now here. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Dude, your jealousy, envy, whatever problem you have with anyone who owns a 13 GT500 is just ridiculous . First on SVT, and now here. Didn't even notice that trolling seemed to be the only reason for her joining. Shouldn't have bitten. Twenty bucks says we have on our hands one of the first who placed a deposit on a ZL1 and the dealer wouldn't let her renege once Ford announced the '13. I'll have to keep an eye out for a ZL1 doing 50 in the left lane - with the turn signal on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrel 007 Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 I'll have to keep an eye out for a ZL1 doing 50 in the left lane - with the turn signal on. Damn you Madlock! I was drinking Shock energy drink while reading your comment and you made me blow it out my nose. That hurt!!!!!!!! You have to put a caveat in front of your statement warning people to put their drinks down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Damn you Madlock! I was drinking Shock energy drink while reading your comment and you made me blow it out my nose. That hurt!!!!!!!! You have to put a caveat in front of your statement warning people to put their drinks down. I know, but I just call 'em as I see 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejaeggi Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Good response, VaporDude! Read em and weep. Having owned a 2011 (basically same as 2012), I have to say there is a big difference between my new 2013 and the 2011. Loved my 2011, but this 2013 is unbelievable. the spoiler is listed as part of the SVTT package, is there no stock spoiler? Spoiler with unique Gurney flap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.