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Difference between 2012 and 2013


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Please forgive my ignorance , any info appreciated. Looking to buy a new toy (late model Shelby). I know there were changes to the body from 2009-2010 , as well as HP upgrade. Seems that could be accomplished with cold air intake. Then there was the electric brake upgrade . HP goes to 650 for 2013. Was this accomplished by a major redesign of engine parts , or can a 2012 with tune and other mods accomplish same change. Would hate to buy a 2011 or 2012 and find out I didnt do enough homework. Thanks for any input.

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Here are the major changes from 2012 to 2013:

 

NEW EXTERIOR FEATURES

Classic Shelby® wide-stripes design on all packages

HID head lamp and LED tail lamps design

Front fascia, front air splitter and grilles

Rear fascia with quad rear-exit exhaust

NEW EXTERIOR COLOR

Deep Impact Blue Metallic (J4)

Red Candy Metallic Tinted Clearcoat (RZ)

Grabber Blue (CI)

Sterling Gray Metallic (UJ)

INTERIOR CHANGES

Unique instrument cluster with Over-Rev indicator and 4.2"

LCD message center with Mustang Track Apps

FUNCTIONAL CHANGES

5.8L Supercharged 4V V8 with Aluminum Block with Engine

Over-Rev capability

Interactive Launch Control

Front Brembo™ 6-piston calipers

One-piece carbon-fiber driveshaft

Front air splitter (Dealer-installed)

OPTIONS CHANGES

Electronics Package (58N) now available with Shaker™ Pro

(918)

Heated Seat Package (51S) – Not available with (821A)

Perfomance package or Recaro® leather sport seats (88Q)

SVT PERFORMANCE PACKAGE – (821A)

Includes:

— TORSEN® differential with 3.31 axle ratio

— Unique 19'x9.5"(F) 20"x9.5"® "Tarnish" painted forgedaluminum

wheel

Unique front and rear springs

Unique front and rear stabilizer bars

SVT Engineered Bilstein™ cockpit-selectable dampers

Unique gear shift knob

Spoiler with unique Gurney flap

SVT TRACK PACKAGE (55S) – Only available on

Coupes with 821A

External engine oil cooler

Differential cooler with pump

Transmission cooler with pump

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there was not a major redesign of the engine parts other than the block being bored out to 5.8 liters, some oil cooling jets around the cylinders, a more efficient intercooler (how much is a mystery), and a 2.3L Eaton TVS supercharger. the same (or better) performance can be had all the way back to the 2007 model with the right upgrades.

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Here's the thing. You can mod a 2012 motor to the power of a 13. You can upgrade the brakes etc. But as far as the trans, suspension, and engine itself you will NOT be able to build a car to be as REALIABLE as the 13 is. It didn't just make the power stronger, it made everything stronger.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Plus warranty :)

Edited by svt13
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Here's the thing. You can mod a 2012 motor to the power of a 13. You can upgrade the brakes etc. But as far as the trans, suspension, and engine itself you will NOT be able to build a car to be as REALIABLE as the 13 is. It didn't just make the power stronger, it made everything stronger.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Plus warranty :)

 

 

 

 

How can you tell how RELIABLE the 13 is going to be when it's only been out since around July...no one knows that right now..look at some of the posts on here

 

right now that are complaining of trans issues and you youself posted on gear whine with the 13 so far...I know of a quite a few guys driving around 650-750 hp

 

07-012 GT500's without any issues at all and some of these are tracked cars..only time will tell on the 013 being reliable.

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How can you tell how RELIABLE the 13 is going to be when it's only been out since around July...no one knows that right now..look at some of the posts on here

 

right now that are complaining of trans issues and you youself posted on gear whine with the 13 so far...I know of a quite a few guys driving around 650-750 hp

 

07-012 GT500's without any issues at all and some of these are tracked cars..only time will tell on the 013 being reliable.

 

 

I was referring to the engine being reliable. The rear end is garbage. And only like 4 people have complained about the transmission compared to the 20 billion who complained about it from 2010-2012.

 

For the engine its not a time will tell kinda thing. If you go read this article called the power of 3 trinity you will see in extreme detail exactly what changes ford did to the engine for the 13. TRUST ME......its more reliable. Thats like saying someone took and engine and put manley rods which are proven to be better than the stock ones but you still say "oh shit no we gotta wait and see if they are more reliable". They are.

Edited by svt13
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I was referring to the engine being reliable. The rear end is garbage. And only like 4 people have complained about the transmission compared to the 20 billion who complained about it from 2010-2012.

 

For the engine its not a time will tell kinda thing. If you go read this article called the power of 3 trinity you will see in extreme detail exactly what changes ford did to the engine for the 13. TRUST ME......its more reliable. Thats like saying someone took and engine and put manley rods which are proven to be better than the stock ones but you still say "oh shit no we gotta wait and see if they are more reliable". They are.

 

 

 

Only 4 people that complained on TS..thats only since July..20 BILLION 2010-2012's ?..really!!!...TRUST YOU it's going to be reliable!!..this coming from a guy that

 

had to come on here and ask how to drive his car... :hysterical: ....plus the rear end is garbage right ?..how many people had to get the rear end changed out yet ?..None

 

on here but you think it's garbage..did you ever stop and think that this is a 662 HP performance car there's going to be noises..it ain't a Bentley!!...to say without

 

dought that the eng is going to be reliable on a car that just went to dealer in July is a dumb statement...I'm not saying it's not going to be reliable but I sure as heck

 

can't say it will right now...Oh and by the way read my post again I WAS refering to the eng also when I said I know people that have 650-750 hp in the 07-012's.

 

go google it I'm sure you'll find all your answers to the facts to how everything will turn out for this car's eng... :confused:

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Only 4 people that complained on TS..thats only since July..20 BILLION 2010-2012's ?..really!!!...TRUST YOU it's going to be reliable!!..this coming from a guy that

 

had to come on here and ask how to drive his car... :hysterical: ....plus the rear end is garbage right ?..how many people had to get the rear end changed out yet ?..None

 

on here but you think it's garbage..did you ever stop and think that this is a 662 HP performance car there's going to be noises..it ain't a Bentley!!...to say without

 

dought that the eng is going to be reliable on a car that just went to dealer in July is a dumb statement...I'm not saying it's not going to be reliable but I sure as heck

 

can't say it will right now...Oh and by the way read my post again I WAS refering to the eng also when I said I know people that have 650-750 hp in the 07-012's.

 

go google it I'm sure you'll find all your answers to the facts to how everything will turn out for this car's eng... :confused:

 

 

Well I guess for a SRA it isn't garbage. But in the realm of car rear ends I consider SRA's to be garbage compared to IRS. But again thats fine the mustang crowd likes to drag race and keep weight down so no point getting into that endless debate. And the 20 billion statement was obviously an exageration I was just trying to make a point.

 

But I guess Ford must have changed something drastically between the 5.4 and 5.8 that could negatively effect it that you know about and I don't clearly. Only time will tell.

 

Do me a favor and read this article http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/m5lp_1203_2013_ford_shelby_gt500_trinity_5_8l_v8/viewall.html

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if i had to put my money on which powerplant was more reliable between an aluminum block and iron block, i'd go iron all day long. just sayin'. i've read articles on the '13 powerplant and there's nothing indicating that it is "stronger" or more "reliable". like someone else mentioned, time will tell.

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Well I guess for a SRA it isn't garbage. But in the realm of car rear ends I consider SRA's to be garbage compared to IRS. But again thats fine the mustang crowd likes to drag race and keep weight down so no point getting into that endless debate. And the 20 billion statement was obviously an exageration I was just trying to make a point.

 

But I guess Ford must have changed something drastically between the 5.4 and 5.8 that could negatively effect it that you know about and I don't clearly. Only time will tell.

 

Do me a favor and read this article http://www.mustang50...v8/viewall.html

 

OK, the OP asked if there were major changes, he got his question answered. SVT13, your link is to an article from March, before many, if any, of the 13s had seen any real-world use.

 

If something hadn't drastically changed between the 5.4 and the 5.8, there wouldn't be the significant performance differences. Are there any negative consequences to these performance enhancements? I'm sure Ford/SVT did some endurance and threshhold testing on these engines, but pretty much all car guys know that what works in the lab and on the test track may break when exposed to real-world use.

 

SVTkeith didn't say there were issues, or that he knew about issues, he said it's too early to tell. You seem to have difficulty discerning between fact and conjecture, as indicated by your SRA statement. I fully respect your privilege to come on this site and learn (as it's apparent from your posts you have much to learn and an honest willingness to do so), and to express your opinion. However, when you express your opinion as fact, and proceed to denigrate those who disagree with your opinion, and might in fact have a valid point, based on experience, you lose credibility. That's OK for you, but some who come on here might not recognize the difference, and make decisions based on your ill-informed opinion, which would be a shame.

 

The facts are that there were significant changes to the 13 engine, including an increase in displacement, and major revisions in cooling, along with lots of other stuff as indicated in the article you linked to, which, BTW, was written by journalists, based on info given them by Ford's marketing department (or engineers, through the filter of the marketing department). They're not going to tell about the potential bad stuff, or unintended consequences of the design changes. They're not even aware of the "unkown unknowns" that are what bite every manufacturer in the butt. You're last statement above is correct: only time will tell. There's lots of upside to this motor, but the reliability can't be known yet.

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i'm still not convinced it's a major redesign. i think that is a matter of terminology and opinion. the SVT 5.4 and 5.8 share an overwhelming majority of components between the two engines. even the displacement was achieved by boring the 5.4 (it's not really a larger block). in contrast, the GT's 4.6 to 5.0 WAS A MAJOR REDESIGN as those engines are fundamentally different.

Edited by 2007tungstenGT500
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i'm still not convinced it's a major redesign. i think that is a matter of terminology and opinion. the SVT 5.4 and 5.8 share an overwhelming majority of components between the two engines. even the displacement was achieved by boring the 5.4 (it's not really a larger block). in contrast, the GT's 4.6 to 5.0 WAS A MAJOR REDESIGN as those engines are fundamentally different.

 

Agree that it's not a redesign such as the Coyote motor. But they've pushed the 5.4 design to it's limits as far as bore, cooling, etc, and introduced some new techniques (spray bore lining, for instance). They're at the edge of design limits. Did they push past the reasonable limits in any particular area? That's what we'll discover over time.

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Agree that it's not a redesign such as the Coyote motor. But they've pushed the 5.4 design to it's limits as far as bore, cooling, etc, and introduced some new techniques (spray bore lining, for instance). They're at the edge of design limits. Did they push past the reasonable limits in any particular area? That's what we'll discover over time.

 

My SRA statement was just my opinion for the SRA in a modern day car. But it is fact that the mustang crowd perfers SRA for the reasons of lightweight, durability, and for drag racing. I'm not trying to denigrate others. All I was saying is that people who run higher HP in the older shelbys usually don't do engine, tranmissions, or drivetrain mods to support that increase power and that is a 100% true statement because lets face it they don't becuase of the costs.

 

Now for the 2013 ford specifically designed this entire car to support more HP and go 200 mph. From a logic point of view I don't understand how the hell it could not be more reliable then say someone who slaps 150 extra HP on a 2012 with none of these changes ANYWHERE. Again unless one of these changes were detrimental to something in the engine I don't see how it could not be more reliable than a 2012 with the same exact HP and no engine mods.

 

I mean if that were the case and from a reliability point of view true, why the hell did they go through all that trouble upgrading everything? Sure would have cost a hell of a lot less to just slap the tvs on there and keep it at that. Or build a bigger intake and do a new tune. They did everything they did for a reason.

 

Now as far as pushing past a limit the only thing I can think of once again are those rods. I am also curious to know the difference between the 5.4 in the shelby compared to the 5.4 in the FGT. The FGT can support 1000hp no problem. I am pretty sure though the FGT uses manley rods.

 

Ignore all grammer mistakes in my post, typing this from my phone.

Edited by svt13
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if i had to put my money on which powerplant was more reliable between an aluminum block and iron block, i'd go iron all day long. just sayin'. i've read articles on the '13 powerplant and there's nothing indicating that it is "stronger" or more "reliable". like someone else mentioned, time will tell.

 

 

Sort of like when we had the Saturn V rocket and the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo capsules. Mercury was fine but Gus Grissom sank one on splash down. We upgraded to the Gemini which seemed improved. Then we upgraded to Apollo but we lost three astronauts with the "More reliable capsule". So we upgraded to the Space Shuttle. Was it more reliable? Seemed so for a few million miles, then we lost two of them. I agree, only time will tell on any new endevour. Five years from now we may be talking about a very dependable automobile or a piece of crap that was poorly engineered. :lurk:

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OK, the OP asked if there were major changes, he got his question answered. SVT13, your link is to an article from March, before many, if any, of the 13s had seen any real-world use.

 

If something hadn't drastically changed between the 5.4 and the 5.8, there wouldn't be the significant performance differences. Are there any negative consequences to these performance enhancements? I'm sure Ford/SVT did some endurance and threshhold testing on these engines, but pretty much all car guys know that what works in the lab and on the test track may break when exposed to real-world use.

 

SVTkeith didn't say there were issues, or that he knew about issues, he said it's too early to tell. You seem to have difficulty discerning between fact and conjecture, as indicated by your SRA statement. I fully respect your privilege to come on this site and learn (as it's apparent from your posts you have much to learn and an honest willingness to do so), and to express your opinion. However, when you express your opinion as fact, and proceed to denigrate those who disagree with your opinion, and might in fact have a valid point, based on experience, you lose credibility. That's OK for you, but some who come on here might not recognize the difference, and make decisions based on your ill-informed opinion, which would be a shame.

 

The facts are that there were significant changes to the 13 engine, including an increase in displacement, and major revisions in cooling, along with lots of other stuff as indicated in the article you linked to, which, BTW, was written by journalists, based on info given them by Ford's marketing department (or engineers, through the filter of the marketing department). They're not going to tell about the potential bad stuff, or unintended consequences of the design changes. They're not even aware of the "unkown unknowns" that are what bite every manufacturer in the butt. You're last statement above is correct: only time will tell. There's lots of upside to this motor, but the reliability can't be known yet.

 

 

 

Very well said...anyone that has owned performance cars over the years will all agree with this post I'm sure...the 5.4 was and still is one hell of a strong engine

 

but it's been beaten on by many since 07 it's PROVEN...and I do agree with the post above by "tungsten" iron blocks are stronger than alum blocks at least in

 

the drag racing field when eng are being modded to the limit.

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Very well said...anyone that has owned performance cars over the years will all agree with this post I'm sure...the 5.4 was and still is one hell of a strong engine

 

but it's been beaten on by many since 07 it's PROVEN...and I do agree with the post above by "tungsten" iron blocks are stronger than alum blocks at least in

 

the drag racing field when eng are being modded to the limit.

 

 

What about vipers? Haven't they been using an alumnium block for a while with no problems when owners mod and drag race them? I don't know about that I'm just asking. Same question with corvettes.

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Sort of like when we had the Saturn V rocket and the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo capsules. Mercury was fine but Gus Grissom sank one on splash down. We upgraded to the Gemini which seemed improved. Then we upgraded to Apollo but we lost three astronauts with the "More reliable capsule". So we upgraded to the Space Shuttle. Was it more reliable? Seemed so for a few million miles, then we lost two of them. I agree, only time will tell on any new endevour. Five years from now we may be talking about a very dependable automobile or a piece of crap that was poorly engineered. :lurk:

 

 

 

Exactly!!

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What about vipers? Haven't they been using an alumnium block for a while with no problems when owners mod and drag race them? I don't know about that I'm just asking. Same question with corvettes.

 

 

 

 

Google it you'll get your answer!! :confused: ...I've had more modded cars since the late 70's than you've ever driven including an 03 MACH1..an 04 SVT COBRA

 

and an 07 GT500 so i've lived it and still am doing so and I won't get on here and say a first year and only out for a few months eng trans or rear diff on any

 

car of any brand is going to be reliable just because it should be on PAPER!! or on the COMPUTOR!!...I had an eng built for my 77 Trans Am back in the

 

day that was suposed to be bullitt proof but guess what I had it grenade on me only one month after I had it in the car and I wasn't banging the crap out of

 

it...and don't care about what you googled about Vipers or any other cars eng's that don't tell you shyt until you either had one and tried it yourself...listen

 

to the people on here that been there and done that before you start spouting off as to how much more you know than they...

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Google it you'll get your answer!! :confused: ...I've had more modded cars since the late 70's than you've ever driven including an 03 MACH1..an 04 SVT COBRA

 

and an 07 GT500 so i've lived it and still am doing so and I won't get on here and say a first year and only out for a few months eng trans or rear diff on any

 

car of any brand is going to be reliable just because it should be on PAPER!! or on the COMPUTOR!!...I had an eng built for my 77 Trans Am back in the

 

day that was suposed to be bullitt proof but guess what I had it grenade on me only one month after I had it in the car and I wasn't banging the crap out of

 

it...and don't care about what you googled about Vipers or any other cars eng's that don't tell you shyt until you either had one and tried it yourself...listen

 

to the people on here that been there and done that before you start spouting off as to how much more you know than they...

 

 

I never said I know more than you or anyone. Nor do I have a problem with anyone. But when you say comments like that it makes me not care anymore about what you have to say.

 

I didn't google about vipers and corvettes either nor said I was going to. I simply asked the question to anyone with knowledge on the subject to answer. I don't know why you responded when you don't have any knowledge on the subject. Your behavior confuses me.

 

As far as reliability. Lets resume this discussion a year from now. I can only hope our engines have improved today from your bulletproof engines in the 70s.

Edited by svt13
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I never said I know more than you or anyone. Nor do I have a problem with anyone. But when you say comments like that it makes me not care anymore about what you have to say.

 

I didn't google about vipers and corvettes either nor said I was going to. I simply asked the question to anyone with knowledge on the subject to answer. I don't know why you responded when you don't have any knowledge on the subject. Your behavior confuses me.

 

As far as reliability. Lets resume this discussion a year from now. I can only hope our engines have improved today from your bulletproof engines in the 70s.

 

 

 

 

Yep just what I thought...answered like a kid on a school playground...as soon as someone tries to tell you something you respond by now

 

I'm not going to listen to you...I'll give yoy good advice..LISTEN to the guys that know on this site the ones thats been around you'll learn..

 

end of coversation on this.

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Only 4 people that complained on TS..thats only since July..20 BILLION 2010-2012's ?..really!!!...TRUST YOU it's going to be reliable!!

 

 

It's fully covered by warranty, so the point is rather moot. But given both the nature of the improvements to the 5.4L in transforming it to the 5.8L and the reliance upon conservative, proven means, there's absolutely no reason to presume the 5.8L won't be every bit as reliable for the vast majority who never drive their cars to the extremes - though the addition of bona fide cooling and component protection systems go a long way to ensuring it will too for those who do.

 

Having kept my '12 alongside my '13 and made a point to drive them on alternating days and even within the same day when convenient, I can attest to how they're more "different" than necessarily better or worse. The '13 has far greater performance, but the '12 is far easier to drive everyday. Ironically, there are very few non-powertrain components upgrade components that wouldn't be identical between and the 5.4L has even greater upgrade potential with existing off-the-shelf superchargers and proven Ford Racing tunes no well maintained 5.4L need fear. In fact, there are many aspects of the '13 I DON'T prefer - that I fully intend to change, like the 3.31 gears' propensity for far easier stalling despite its higher top speed and fuel economy potential.

 

What's not yet known is the performance potential that will become available when and if Ford Racing offers superchargers for the 5.8L. Already to its maximum bore, the 5.8L may represent the most durable upgrade ever made to the 5.4L with no plans to take it further rather than the 2011-12 motor with larger Superchargers - the only difference to the owner being Ford's willingness to protect them by warranty coverage. Even Shelby is taking the '13 SuperSnake to only 850hp when previous versions would go to 800. The TVS is responsible for far more of the 5.8L's additional power than the increased bore, so it'd be silly to think a 5.4L with a 2.9L Whipple wouldn't be every bit as viable an alternative - if not better than the 5.8L.

 

All that's missing from that equation is the other changes Ford made to ensure its everyday durability like a heavier clutch with more durable friction material and the up-rated cooling - both innately and as part of the track package. Sure, certain '13 aspects like the dual-mode Bilstiens and launch control would be difficult (if at all possible) to retrofit, but those only matter to people who intend to use them. Personally, I can count on one hand the number of LC launches I've performed since taking possession - and I find the LCD gauge to be ham-fisted and half-assed in implementation.

 

Especially once Ford shifts fully to the '15 car, it would miss a HUGE opportunity to not offer S197 retrofit kits to bring ALL intermediary versions up to the 13/14 high water mark - including a 15" brake kit sold as such AND an owner-installable Bilstein kit whose on/off nature makes it about as simple to engineer unto itself as anything could be.

 

For me, owning a '13 was far more about wanting to own the car in its final form than a desire to improve upon anything I found lacking in the '12. In fact, the '12 will continue to be my track car - and the '13 my secondary/weekend street driver behind my '13 Taurus SHO.

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Yep just what I thought...answered like a kid on a school playground...as soon as someone tries to tell you something you respond by now

 

I'm not going to listen to you...I'll give yoy good advice..LISTEN to the guys that know on this site the ones thats been around you'll learn..

 

end of coversation on this.

 

 

I didn't answer like a kid. A kid would cuss you out. I just said I am done listening when your arguments went from having some reasoning behind them to stupidity. At this point your argueing for the sake of it.

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It's fully covered by warranty, so the point is rather moot. But given both the nature of the improvements to the 5.4L in transforming it to the 5.8L and the reliance upon conservative, proven means, there's absolutely no reason to presume the 5.8L won't be every bit as reliable for the vast majority who never drive their cars to the extremes - though the addition of bona fide cooling and component protection systems go a long way to ensuring it will too for those who do.

 

Having kept my '12 alongside my '13 and made a point to drive them on alternating days and even within the same day when convenient, I can attest to how they're more "different" than necessarily better or worse. The '13 has far greater performance, but the '12 is far easier to drive everyday. Ironically, there are very few non-powertrain components upgrade components that wouldn't be identical between and the 5.4L has even greater upgrade potential with existing off-the-shelf superchargers and proven Ford Racing tunes no well maintained 5.4L need fear. In fact, there are many aspects of the '13 I DON'T prefer - that I fully intend to change, like the 3.31 gears' propensity for far easier stalling despite its higher top speed and fuel economy potential.

 

What's not yet known is the performance potential that will become available when and if Ford Racing offers superchargers for the 5.8L. Already to its maximum bore, the 5.8L may represent the most durable upgrade ever made to the 5.4L with no plans to take it further rather than the 2011-12 motor with larger Superchargers - the only difference to the owner being Ford's willingness to protect them by warranty coverage. Even Shelby is taking the '13 SuperSnake to only 850hp when previous versions would go to 800. The TVS is responsible for far more of the 5.8L's additional power than the increased bore, so it'd be silly to think a 5.4L with a 2.9L Whipple wouldn't be every bit as viable an alternative - if not better than the 5.8L.

 

All that's missing from that equation is the other changes Ford made to ensure its everyday durability like a heavier clutch with more durable friction material and the up-rated cooling - both innately and as part of the track package. Sure, certain '13 aspects like the dual-mode Bilstiens and launch control would be difficult (if at all possible) to retrofit, but those only matter to people who intend to use them. Personally, I can count on one hand the number of LC launches I've performed since taking possession - and I find the LCD gauge to be ham-fisted and half-assed in implementation.

 

Especially once Ford shifts fully to the '15 car, it would miss a HUGE opportunity to not offer S197 retrofit kits to bring ALL intermediary versions up to the 13/14 high water mark - including a 15" brake kit sold as such AND an owner-installable Bilstein kit whose on/off nature makes it about as simple to engineer unto itself as anything could be.

 

For me, owning a '13 was far more about wanting to own the car in its final form than a desire to improve upon anything I found lacking in the '12. In fact, the '12 will continue to be my track car - and the '13 my secondary/weekend street driver behind my '13 Taurus SHO.

 

 

Why do you think the 12 is easier to drive? Is it just becuase of 3.31 gearing and heavier clutch in the 13?

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Why do you think the 12 is easier to drive? Is it just becuase of 3.31 gearing and heavier clutch in the 13?

 

 

Partly. I just find it to have a lighter overall feel that requires less "management" and less often - just like a GT can be downright serene.

 

They're certainly more similar than not but, depending upon the miles I've clocked I'd be likelier to trade the '13 toward a '14 to maintain the contrast while owning both.

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It baffles me why Ford didn't just put 3.55s in all GT500s from the start (and 3.73 in all Mustang GTs). As someone pointed out 3.31s are great for fuel economy and top speed...neither of which are a concern of mine with a GT500. going from 3.55 to 3.73 in my 2006 Mustang GT made better use of the 4.6L powerband and 5-speed gearing.

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