tpow96 Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 This thread only applies to those of us willing to track our cars. After the TS NE Summit Point event earlier this Summer, I've had some thoughts about how to improve the on-track experience that I wanted to share. For those of you who were there (and I know it applies to other track events as well), it is exhilarating to push ones car to the fine edge, and part of that thrill is passing or being passed. However, it is one thing to pass someone who is enjoying the ride and not willing to push their car or driving ability too hard, which is fine because everyone should have fun at their own comfort and we want to encourage as many folk as possible to see these cars as more than just pretty machines to keep polished. It is another thing to pass someone who is really trying to go as fast as possible within the limits of their car. I've been thinking, wouldn't it be nice to know by some visual cue that a car I pass or passes me actually means something? Here are some examples: I jockeyed positions with some other NA SGTs with serious drivers, which was fun once I figured them out after some conversations in the pits. Didn't have time to find them all out. Other SC SGTs blew past me on the straights as it should be, but it was good to know that other than hearing the "whine" if you can even do that with all the wonderful noise. Must have passed dozens of GT500s on the straights which I should have no business doing except for the drivers willingness to push their engines/brakes too hard. Again, I'm not faulting how people choose to drive. But I wondered if I had a GT500, it would be nice to know how serious the drivers were or some idea of what mods were in play. Now this may be my SGT bias, as all those GT500s look the same to me. So here is an idea that I think works on many levels. I was thinking of a Team Shelby R group window decal that could give the following info: Team Shelby R = mostly stock SGT, GTS, GT500, GT350, or non-Shelbys. Team Shelby R1 = above cars modified with R-compound tires, brakes, basic power bolt-ons, or any combo. Team Shelby R2 = supercharged versions of the SGT, GTS, GT350 or non-Shelbys. I also thought of adding a red + after the R, R1, or R2 in honor of jerseygator for any of us who pay the price of repairing damage to our cars while participating in an event. Note that there is no enforcement of these groupings... no prizes, no honors, no records, no registry entry. Strictly a way to communicate to folks while blazing around the track. But the bonus as I see it is the way it tells others at shows or on the road that your car is no mere trailer queen. Plus it's an immediate talking point to other TS members. Your thoughts? -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT93 Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 If you're unofficial member one then count me as member two. I think it's a great idea espically when folks are at a Shelby gathering and are wondering these things. I too pass many GT500 espically on lower speed, technical corner courses and knowing how hard they were pushing the car would help me in knowing how well I'm driving. I'm all in on this idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondo Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 +3 Tpow96, Man that's an excellent idea!! I've been thinking of a similar thing- count me in Group R1- a way to let other drivers know that I will be passing (and willing to be passed), enjoying my car and track to the fullest, pushing to the limit (safely of course). I've also had an idea of a class that should be presented to inexperienced or novice drivers on how to prepare their cars for the track in retrospect of the unfortunate needless accident involving Jerseygator's car. Maybe a decal to show others that the car has been officially track-prepped and inspected would help other drivers track with peace-of-mind knowing that the car will be safe. Definitely count me in. We should design the decal(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpow96 Posted August 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 So, this has received a few responses to indicate it is not a crackpot idea, but not enough to say that many would participate. Could be that most folks who would care about this aren't avid TS readers/responders. So I will pursue with the organizers of the next TS track event over here out east (Ponies in the Poconos?) to see if we can offer it as an option to participants. The proof will be in the pudding, so to speak. My thought was a simple Team Shelby R vinyl script for the tops of the front and/or back of the windows. Is there an official TS font? I welcome your help on this Secondo. -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Dennis Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 Even a technical inspection will not reveal what will happen when a car is driven past what the brakes will support. Most driver ed courses have separate classes to keep the newbies away from the experienced. And they have an instructor ride around with the newbies until they feel the driver learns a few things. Apex points are just the beginning. Brake fade is more important. Separate classes is a better idea than decals. FWIW I believe a well setup SGT/SC is going to be hard to beat on a road course. Am I biased? Not a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondo Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 I would feel more comfortable on the track knowing that my fellow racers took the time to make sure their cars were track worthy. At the last event i attended, I was surprised to hear of how many cars had lost their brakes due to not changing their fluid and/or pads. Not sure why some people would risk their own and others property and risk bodily harm to save $50 in brake fluid. If this idea gets popular, I'd stay away from the cars without the decal. The class I recommend would be for preparing a car for tracking, not the driver, as I know the track provides their own class for the newbies. I agree, it would be difficult to know which recreationally tracked car is properly prepared or not. Tom, I have some ideas for the sticker in my head, I'll try to make a digital copy that I could post. The windshield/rear window area sounds good, and I was thinking of a label fitted at the driver's rear bumper. We could post this topic at the 'Regional Events' area as well to get more views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HARALD KELLEY Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 I like the idea and do not have a dog in the fight as I do not track my car. So just an observation: That being said, how does the 3 catagories reveal the willingness of the driver to push the vehicle. While it does indentify the potential mods the vehicle has or does not have, it does not identify the level of willingness the driver will take to push his/her car. It really only lets you know that you passed or where passed by a catagorized moded or un-modded car. I may be missing something but this is how I read the first post. I think the goal is to determine did I pass a skilled driver who was pushing to the edge of their ability. If so another indicator on the decal such as "Move Over" script may let you know that this person pushes their car. Mods or no mods do not dictate that willingness of the driver. The track worthy preperation is very important and that would be even more important IMO. Good luck and I think with some work this idea can be achieved and have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpow96 Posted August 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 I like the idea and do not have a dog in the fight as I do not track my car. So just an observation: That being said, how does the 3 catagories reveal the willingness of the driver to push the vehicle. While it does indentify the potential mods the vehicle has or does not have, it does not identify the level of willingness the driver will take to push his/her car. It really only lets you know that you passed or where passed by a catagorized moded or un-modded car. I may be missing something but this is how I read the first post. I think the goal is to determine did I pass a skilled driver who was pushing to the edge of their ability. If so another indicator on the decal such as "Move Over" script may let you know that this person pushes their car. Mods or no mods do not dictate that willingness of the driver. The track worthy preperation is very important and that would be even more important IMO. Good luck and I think with some work this idea can be achieved and have fun. You may not have a dog in this fight, but you do bring up good questions. I probably wasn't as clear in my first post, but anyone with the Team Shelby R decal who is serious should at a minimum have performance brake fluid. I ran for two days on my stock brakes at Summit Point with some fade at the end of each session, but never lost them. You learn to manage them with experience, but always expect to devour your pads as I did. The intention is as Secondo mentions... I would feel more trust with chasing someone for a pass if I see that sticker on the windshield. If someone is new or doesn't want to push their car, then don't put it on. I have zero problem with that. As for the location, I suggested the top of the back window at a minimum as it keeps the eyes of the driver looking forward, plus it is easier to do one color (white) for all cars. The idea to make some links to this thread from the regional forums is good as well. -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpow96 Posted August 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 Even a technical inspection will not reveal what will happen when a car is driven past what the brakes will support. Most driver ed courses have separate classes to keep the newbies away from the experienced. And they have an instructor ride around with the newbies until they feel the driver learns a few things. Apex points are just the beginning. Brake fade is more important. Separate classes is a better idea than decals. FWIW I believe a well setup SGT/SC is going to be hard to beat on a road course. Am I biased? Not a bit. Agreed, separate classes would be ideal. But I'm not sure every organization has the time/capability to neatly separate groups, especially with high turnouts. Plus some groups define experience differently. An experienced driver as defined by some would be someone that specific organization can sign off on over time. So it becomes harder to categorize. All I'm suggesting is another way to communicate; certainly I'd perfer separate run groups. But as for a prepped SGT/SC being hard to beat? Yep, I certainly witnessed that. -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THXCHS Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 I love the idea and have an interesting perspective on this. Unfortunately I'm the guy that took jerseygator out at summit point so I definitely appreciate a need to know who is properly equipped for the track. I ignorantly thought my stock GT500 could take all the track had to offer. I love driving hard but under control and so was pushing my 2010 GT500 as much as I could taking guidance from my instructor. Prior to the accident I had informed my instructor that my brakes were getting soft but he did not warn me they could fail completely. I should have known or at least taken more care and lowered my competitiveness and desire to go around the track as quickly as I could, but I did not. I was the only one over the two days to boil my brake fluid. After the incident I hobbled over to gasoline alley and had my brakes bled and higher temperature fluid put in. I was definitely a risk for the other drivers that day and myself. It would have been good for me to know who was looking to drive fast and for others to know that I was driving very hard with completely stock equipment (or in advance for me to know that if I wanted to drive hard I needed to have my care prepared differently than it was.) In fact during this second run of the day I had gone through the pits twice to let slower cars clear out because we had such a mix of people who were being more gentle with their cars. I think this is a great idea for everyone who is on the track. I look forward to going back to the track and being more prepared. It was an amazing experience and aside from this particular bad experience the overall experience was fantastic. Just so I'm not completely the bad guy in this, I did pay for jerseygator's repairs as anyone should and I'm thankful nobody was injured in any way. So sign me up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Dennis Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 WOW great for being a stand up guy. With that big old iron motor up front you need fresh fluid and 6 piston brakes with cooling ducts if you are going to "push it" other than in the big brown eye, if you know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondo Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Bump for letting everyone know that Tom and I will be showing our ideas for the R-Group logos at the Tasca show this weekend. I'll also post pics of them here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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