07SGT0547 Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 At an Open Track Event last week (Heartland Park Topeka) coming out of a 90* slow & tight 2nd Gear Turn... Lost power as I up-shifted into 3rd... Engine coughed and sputtered for a about a 1/2 mile as I limped down the back straight... Finally shut down completely before I could exit the track... Luckily it was a downhill grade so we coasted it into a safe turn off area... Once it was off the track, engine then overheated and spewed coolant out the overflow tank cap for approx 5 mins... Thinking it was just in "limp mode" we let it cool off, but the engine wouldn't crank up again... Battery just fine, but something was binding in the drivetrain and it wouldn't turn over... Fellow GT500 owner suggested pumping the clutch pedal (???) and it somehow freed up the engine just enough to crank it over and start... Heard a constant knocking coming from the RH side of the block that followed the engine RPM's so we shut it down immediately and called Roadside Assistance for a tow to the nearest Ford Dealer... Tow truck driver showed up with a shiny, well maintained Roll-Back flatbed truck and took his time getting everything hooked up without doing any damage to the front splitter or any of the suspension where he tied down the car for the 15-min trip to the Ford Garage... I had already called the Service Dept before the tow, but we dropped off the car after they closed for the night... I went back that next morning when they opened and waited for the "good news"... Initial indications were that #3 cylinder was showing slightly lower compression than the other 7... And after pulling the #3 spark plug and using a scope-type camera, the Engine Tech was able to see where the valves had been hitting the top of the piston itself... Which he then compared against #1 cylinder which had absolutely no marks on the top of the piston... Service writer said he talked to Ford on Friday and I just heard back today (Monday) that a NEW engine had already been ordered and should arrive at the Dealership by the end of this week... And YES it is ALL covered under Factory Drivetrain Warranty... The car was Delivered to the Dealer in early December and purchased in mid-April with 36 miles on the ODO and had just over 3,750 miles on it when it failed... TracKey was installed one week after initial purchase by my local dealership... 1st oil change & 27-point Inspection was done by same dealership just 2 days before the failure occurring at the track... Was using the RED KEY and had topped off with 100 Octane Unleaded Race Fuel that morning right after I went thru Tech Inspection... Had about 1/4 tank of fuel left in the tank when the bearing spun... I did buy this particular BOSS out of state and drove it home about 550 miles the same day I picked it up... First leg was 300 miles to get the Clear Bra installed and then it was 250 miles back home to my garage... Read all about the 100 miles before WOT and 1,000 miles before any Track Use in the Owner's Manual before I even drove it off the lot... Varied the highway cruising speeds between 65-80 MPH, never used the Cruise Control and randomly selected 4th, 5th & 6th gears at the different speeds to vary the engine RPM's accordingly... Average MPG for the entire trip was 23 when I pulled into my driveway... And the oil level that next morning was about 1/2-way between the 2 hash marks on the dipstick, so I just left it go and used it as a reference point to start watching oil consumption... Bought the CoolTech sound tube delete kit, just so I could get easy access to the dipstick and checked the oil on a weekly basis... Ended up putting in another 2 full quarts over the next 3 months and 3,000 miles... Which I reluctantly attributed to the "break-in" period for this particular engine... But I did go to my Ford Dealer last month to start having it documented, just in case there was a problem in the future... Fast forward a month and I decided it was now time to get the Factory oil changed... Made sure the dealer put in 8.5 qts of 5W-50 Full Synthetic and checked it as being FULL before I left the Service Drive... They even gave me the remaining 1/2 quart and told me to let them know the date and the mileage if I had to top it back off... At Tech Inspection @ the Track 2 days later, the oil level hadn't budged from the FULL mark... And then I ran three full 20-min sessions without any issues prior to the failure occurring... Outside temps were in the low 90's, but were creeping up as the afternoon went on... Using a Bluetooth OBD Transmitter and the Torque App on my Smartphone, I was watching the Engine Coolant Temps the entire day... After the engine warmup and a "pace" lap under Yellow, the temps would start out at around 195* and gradually peak around 235* at the end of each session... Never once did I see anything above 240* nor did it ever lose power or go into "limp mode"... Between sessions, I raised the hood and let the engine cool down for the remaining 40 mins in between runs... Each successive session would start out around 200*... I do have the modified 302S grill installed to help with the engine cooling... And before each session, I would double-check the oil to make sure it was always at the FULL mark... Which it was all day long, and still is even after the spun bearing/engine seizure and sitting for the night at the dealership... So while I was hesitant to post the details, for the obvious reasons, I wanted to share this with every BOSS 302 owner who reads this Forum... And not to BASH anyone or find fault in anything that lead up to the failure... But to use this as a Learning Experience for EVERYONE... And to show that FORD will stand by its product while a customer was driving it like they advertised... At speed, On a 2.1 mile Road Course, Using the Red Key, Setting up the car based on all the recommended procedures in the Owner's Supplemental Manual and keeping track of the Oil levels and Coolant Temps... And while I will follow this along and try to answer any and all technical questions that I can, as well as keep fellow owners updated as this engine swap takes place... I will not get into ANY arguments or even respond to any posts that question why I waited to 3,600 miles before I changed the oil... As it doesn't really matter, and everyone's driving situation differs... Nor will I even bother with comments about my driving/shifting abilities out on the track, as I have plenty of in-car videos (some with Eng Data displayed) and passenger ride-alongs for validation... But for the Record, NO the engine was NOT over-revved to 8-9,000 RPM's, nor did I miss any shifts all day long as I had recently replaced the stock shifter with the complete MGW setup (highly recommended if you Track your car)... I try to use 7,000 RPM's for the upshifts, so it doesn't bounce off the Rev Limiter... And I look for between 4-5,000 RPM's when I downshift going into a turn... The point is, a mechanical failure occurred involving a random production part that finally showed its weakness under the additional stresses of putting this particular BOSS 302 Engine thru its paces out on the track on a beautiful summer day... And FORD is doing its part by honoring the factory warranty and covering the complete engine replacement from start to finish... I'm just glad it didn't fail at 36,001 miles... And for those of you who are experiencing any kind of excessive oil consumption, PLEASE take it in and at least have the Service Dept document the date and the mileage... Otherwise, just like with an aftermarket tune or any of the other engine "mods" that Ford has listed in the TSB for the 5.0 as potential non-warranty reasons, you might not be as lucky as I was... Now I can finally get some sleep... The next 2 weeks are going to fly by and my BOSS will be back in my garage in no time... Probably a great time to finally paint the garage floor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Abarr Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 I think you just got a engine that was enough out of spec to fail. I have been building engines for over 40 years and have had failures even on some of my race engines. I agree with you about documenting any excessive oil useage or any strange noise's that you may barely hear and to take it to the dealer and let the service manager drive it and log his opinion as it will help in the future. I also am very pleased with the response from Ford.I remember when if you were on a race track the you were responsible for any damage. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiloGT Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Great information, I have a friend who just purchased a Boss 302. I hope he has joined; and if not he will soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHELBYCS6 Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Word at Carlisle was there have been many Boss 302 engine failures but mostly with the Leguna Seca models but from what I understood it was always on the number five cylinder. Ford doesn't even question the cause, they just ship a new engine and cover everything under warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT4578 Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Ouch, glad to hear Ford is covering it. (null) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud9 Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Word at Carlisle was there have been many Boss 302 engine failures but mostly with the Leguna Seca models but from what I understood it was always on the number five cylinder. Ford doesn't even question the cause, they just ship a new engine and cover everything under warranty. Since both the standard Boss and the LS share the identical powertrain, there shouldn't be any reason for a higher failure of LS engines. Glad to hear they covered you. I've always found Ford is good about honoring their warranty in my GT500, Boss and 12 other Ford vehicles I currently own. This sounds like a random component failure that took out your engine. I've had two separate clutch failures, both due to mechanical defects and Ford replaced them each time, and both occurred on the track. The first was an anti-rattle spring that ripped out of the clutch disc and lodged between the pressure plate. The second was a failed slave cylinder. In each case the clutch disc and flywheel were in almost new condition showing no significant wear despite being driven as the car was designed. At Road America last week, there were 115 Porsches and 1 Boss and at least 4 Porsche engines blew up including a 1 year old GT3RS. Things are bound to break and that's why they have warranties. Glad to hear Ford stepped up and took care of it. I'm amazed at the punishment this little 5.0 can take and keep on delivering big output......especially with a 7500 rev limit on a V8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark.barton Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Good write up Gregg and I am really happy for you the Ford honored their warranty. I was there at the track when it happened and just prior to going out for that fateful session, Gregg was showing me the data and video from his previous session and I can confirm that there was no overreving and no overheating. There just wasn't anything that would indicate an impending engine failure. I was even standing next to his car when he started it for the next session and again, no tell-tale noises were coming from under the hood. You'll be back on track in no time................. Mark I forgot to add a big kudo to Ford for covering the warranty without question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 DOT 0 Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Since both the standard Boss and the LS share the identical powertrain, there shouldn't be any reason for a higher failure of LS engines. If there have been more LS failures on track it's because a higher percentage get tracked compared to the Boss. LIke you stated they are the same engine and drivetrain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vapor08GT500 Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Great write up Gregg...I think you got me beat for length of a post ...LOL...all kidding aside, I am sorry to hear about the failure, but a very happy that Ford is honoring this for you. I know first hand from driving with you, that you most certainly "know how to drive" and these Boss's by Ford's own account are meant to be raced. This too is the reason I ordered one. ( Incidentally, Laguna Seca arrived today!!) I talked with a Ford Engineer at the BASH in March about the oil consumption issue on the Boss's and asked him if it had been fixed. He did tell me that all the 13's would have the problem taken care of and that those with issues with their 12's would get new motors. He explained that with the 7500 RPM redline that these motors are capable of, that the heads were actually lifting and warping cylinders 3 and 5 on certain cars, so they revised the head bolts, pistons, and rings. As with any new design, there are problems here and there, and I think it is great that Ford is doing the right thing to keep people happy and getting the issues taken care of. Hopefully, you'll be back on the road in no time and enjoying your car soon!! Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertlane Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Greg, Have you posted this on the Boss302.com? I'd like to see more comments from other Boss 302 owners as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT0547 Posted July 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Greg, Have you posted this on the Boss302.com? I'd like to see more comments from other Boss 302 owners as well. I did...http://www.boss302.com/index.php?/topic/14693-another-engine-failure/ But most people seem more interested in other "more important" topics like Owner's Age and Did You Order Recaros... Oh well :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT0547 Posted July 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Great info Alex! Makes more sense that a warped head would cause the valves to be hitting the top of #3 piston than a spun rod bearing... But who knows? I'm just happy that it is being taken care of in a timely fashion... Enjoy that LS... And don't forget to check the OIL... Looking forward to your upcoming BOSS Build... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Dennis Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Besides fixing the broken engines, I hope they determine the cause and resolve that. It took Porsche years to even admit they had issues with all the water cooled engines. That's why there are a lot of ex Porsche drivers now driving something else, and a few of those are driving Mustangs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHELBYCS6 Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 If there have been more LS failures on track it's because a higher percentage get tracked compared to the Boss. LIke you stated they are the same engine and drivetrain. Yes...that was the reasoning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twicebitten Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Great write up Gregg...I think you got me beat for length of a post ...LOL...all kidding aside, I am sorry to hear about the failure, but a very happy that Ford is honoring this for you. I know first hand from driving with you, that you most certainly "know how to drive" and these Boss's by Ford's own account are meant to be raced. This too is the reason I ordered one. ( Incidentally, Laguna Seca arrived today!!) I talked with a Ford Engineer at the BASH in March about the oil consumption issue on the Boss's and asked him if it had been fixed. He did tell me that all the 13's would have the problem taken care of and that those with issues with their 12's would get new motors. He explained that with the 7500 RPM redline that these motors are capable of, that the heads were actually lifting and warping cylinders 3 and 5 on certain cars, so they revised the head bolts, pistons, and rings. As with any new design, there are problems here and there, and I think it is great that Ford is doing the right thing to keep people happy and getting the issues taken care of. Hopefully, you'll be back on the road in no time and enjoying your car soon!! Alex are these motors that have this problem ,random or early production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 DOT 0 Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 are these motors that have this problem ,random or early production. Good question. Greg what is your serial number and build date? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT0547 Posted July 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Good question. Greg what is your serial number and build date? Nov 2011 build... BOSS #2788... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT0547 Posted July 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Good question. Greg what is your serial number and build date? Damn Phone... Double Post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twicebitten Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Nov 2011 build... BOSS #2788... i believe we met at mid america. i also had a red and white boss ..my number is 1581 .now wondering about motor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT0547 Posted July 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 i believe we met at mid america. i also had a red and white boss ..my number is 1581 .now wondering about motor If you were parked behind Shari's 40th Vert at the start of the Cruise, then YES we met in Tulsa... But as far as your BOSS is concerned, just stay on top of the oil consumption (if you have any) and listen for any "odd" noises when you are driving it around... Document any concerns with your local dealer and there should be no problems if you should ever have any "issues" like I did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywickedshelby Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 sorry to hear about your engine going boom Greg.........hope you are back on the road and worry free in no time bud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT0547 Posted July 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 sorry to hear about your engine going boom Greg.........hope you are back on the road and worry free in no time bud! Replacement Long Block supposed to be arriving at Dealership by tomorrow (Friday)... If so, then R&R should take place next week... ETA back in my garage is (hopefully) before the end of the Month... Sounds like Europe was a BLAST and everyone, and their cars, had a GREAT time... Unfortunately, not going to make it to the Wicked Nats this year, again But see you down the road sometime!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vapor08GT500 Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Great info Alex! Makes more sense that a warped head would cause the valves to be hitting the top of #3 piston than a spun rod bearing... But who knows? I'm just happy that it is being taken care of in a timely fashion... Enjoy that LS... And don't forget to check the OIL... Looking forward to your upcoming BOSS Build... Yes, it certainly would. Unless the oil was low (which in your case, was not) I highly doubt that your engine spun a bearing. Have the dealership let you know the culprit when they find out... I agree with you on the Boss 302 forum...so far, I am pretty unimpressed with many discussions, wrong information, and several people's complete ignorance. Yep, I tell all my customer's and friends to religiously check their oil in their Boss's. I started my Boss thread a bit ago... Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT0547 Posted July 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Alex, Do you have a link to your BOSS Build Thread??? I can't seem to find it... THANKS! Gregg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywickedshelby Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Replacement Long Block supposed to be arriving at Dealership by tomorrow (Friday)... If so, then R&R should take place next week... ETA back in my garage is (hopefully) before the end of the Month... Sounds like Europe was a BLAST and everyone, and their cars, had a GREAT time... Unfortunately, not going to make it to the Wicked Nats this year, again But see you down the road sometime!!! Wicked Nats will be the first saturday in August every year going forward, hopefully you can make it! Europe was amazing, in my own car made the Ring, the autobahn, laps at LeMan, Stelvio, all of it, the best trip ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vapor08GT500 Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Alex, Do you have a link to your BOSS Build Thread??? I can't seem to find it... THANKS! Gregg Gregg, Here you go.... http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php/topic/76275-my-new-boss-302-laguna-seca-has-arrived/page__fromsearch__1 Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT0547 Posted July 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Gregg, Here you go.... http://www.teamshelb...__fromsearch__1 Alex That's Weird??? Says I don't have permission to view this thread??? Can everyone else see this??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afdharley Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 That's Weird??? Says I don't have permission to view this thread??? Can everyone else see this??? Sure can. Who'd you piss off :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT0547 Posted July 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Sure can. Who'd you piss off :D Guess that's what I get for trading in my SGT for a BOSS... But I still can't see Alex's BOSS BUILD Thread??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywickedshelby Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 I dont have a sticker on my car that says Hallett........ I have one on my car that says....Nurburgring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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