bigmac70 Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Hoping everyone has a good week, I am somewhat of a newer member and do not post often. I have always wondered about the ADM and it seems that it is somewhat "taboo" to talk about it in the classified area? Not looking to make enemies, just want to know why this is "okay" and why we would continue to do business with the dealers that are more prone to this activity. Yes, I have an education and know about supply and demand for the person that takes that angle. No, I do not wish to own a Shelby/Boss whatever because I have done that/currently do etc. More interested in the dealer/sales opinion on why this is good for their business overall? My feelings are that when I bought a new 2001 Lightning back in late 01, I paid $500 under sticker and had a great experience, especially after Prestige Ford In Garland TX said they were done with the 01 and they were $5000 over sticker if I wanted one. Case in point; good friend wanted a new Boss 302, said Wichita Falls Ford had one for sticker and would deliver for a nominal charge. I related my good experience there a decade prior and he has been happy since; I will always promote that dealership. For the owners/dealers; what about the FORD loyal customers? Little Jimmy needs a Focus for college, little Mary wants a V6 Mustang, and the wife wants a Expedition but YOU want $77,000 firm for your $60K hardtop 13 GT500. Turn the table/operating table; is it still okay to overcharge you or your family when you come to the hospital for a procedure or perhaps a lifesaving operation? Oh, now we are talking apples and oranges right? Please let a dealer/FORD owner chime in and let me know how their behavior is okay. No, I do not need or want a new GT500, I love my 07 that I bought from the original owner that paid $10K over back in January 07. I just would like to hear from a dealer on why this is so "okay" as it relates to extreme profits on one sale versus a customer base that would do business down the road for all the FORD family members. MidAmerica/Tulsa, great event and there is a promoting FORD dealer usually involved. As much fun Tulsa is and the atmosphere of small town USA, they have a black hardtop 13 GT500 for sale $77K FIRM per add. I will think about that next year in Tulsa as my friend just paid sticker for his blue 13 GT500. Again, only tring to gain some understanding on this "taboo" but widely accepted policy. I do understand other brands do the same for their new performance models but I am a FORD guy, thus the other companies business dealings matter little. Really want to know how these guys sleep well after an extreme mark-up but it would be unethical if I did the same at the hospital I was involved with? Only relating the hospital business for the ones who will jump on the "supply and demand" bandwagon. MidAmerica is great, the recent SCAT Shelby 50th in Dallas was great as well, thanks...Dave 903-262-4054 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springer Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 The dealers know that there are plenty of individuals that have much more money than they need and they know that when supply is low and demand is high, they can rely on these people to line their pockets. I was disappointed with the admin. fees in 2007 and find it disgusting today also. Why the dealers do not take care of their loyal customers is way too much for my lower cerebellum to comprehend. And yes, the SCAT show in Dallas was great this Saturday. Glad you made it out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ati Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 The dealers do it because Ford corporate puts their head in the sand and lets them get away with it. My family and my business have been buying Fords form the same dealer for nearly 20 years. My company has 12 pick up trucks and buys and trades in 4 a year. In late 2006 I went to buy my first GT500 and they wanted 20K ADM. After haggling back and forth for a couple hours they dropped to 17.5K ADM and said thats the best they can do so I left discouraged and went down the road a couple of miles to a dealer I never bought from before. I talked to the sales guy for 10 minutes and he said that he would order a GT500 for me for sticker and I said deal. So in my opinion its all based on the character of the dealer and the greed factor. OH and buy the way we moved ALL personal and company business to the new dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2010KonaBlueGT Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 The dealers do it because Ford corporate puts their head in the sand and lets them get away with it. Seriously? No, I mean....SERIOUSLY!? Are you shittin' me? The Ford Motor Company CAN'T tell the dealers what they can or can't charge. That would be price fixing and THAT is illegal. This is a free market society, not a communist society. The FoMoCo has a "Manufactures SUGGESTED Retail Price" (MSRP). That price is a *guide* for dealers to use, a *suggested* price. Not a mandatory price, but a SUGGESTED price. I keep seeing the DEALERS being villified, not the customers that pay the price and prepetuate the practice. Folks, it's THIS simple...If no one bought at the inflated prices, they would not exist. Period. End of story. No dealers would add ADM's if there was no customer base that paid them. Bottom line, Phill (that ain't opinion, that's FACT) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Folks, it's THIS simple...If no one bought at the inflated prices, they would not exist. Period. End of story. No dealers would add ADM's if there was no customer base that paid them. Agreed! +1000 This is the reason we frown in people debating this in the classifieds. The fact is if someone is willing to pay it, GREAT for the dealer, if they aren't GREAT for all of us. In the end there will ALWAYS be a dealer willing to sell at MSRP or lower. You just need to work at it and as with ANY purchase a fool and his money are soon parted. But as with ANY business a dealer is free, and obligated, to make as much money as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ati Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Seriously? No, I mean....SERIOUSLY!? Are you shittin' me? The Ford Motor Company CAN'T tell the dealers what they can or can't charge. That would be price fixing and THAT is illegal. This is a free market society, not a communist society. The FoMoCo has a "Manufactures SUGGESTED Retail Price" (MSRP). That price is a *guide* for dealers to use, a *suggested* price. Not a mandatory price, but a SUGGESTED price. I keep seeing the DEALERS being villified, not the customers that pay the price and prepetuate the practice. Folks, it's THIS simple...If no one bought at the inflated prices, they would not exist. Period. End of story. No dealers would add ADM's if there was no customer base that paid them. Your right price fixing is illegal but if Ford wanted to they could influence the dealers to be fair with their customers and still make a decent profit. I still can't believe there are people who believe price gouging is good business. In my case the dealer who tried to pipe me for a 20K ADM in 2006 so far ended up loosing out on at least 20 F150 truck deals plus all our personal car deals plus whenever I talk about buying cars with people I always mention how they tried to screw me. The dealer that was fair with me ended up with all these sales plus all my future vehicle sales. So in the end the dealer who was fair will actually makes more money and has a better reputation which will bring in more business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2010KonaBlueGT Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 ....they could influence the dealers to be fair with their customers and still make a decent profit. And therein lies the problem. WHAT....is a "decent profit"? That is a subjective term. The definition of a "decent profit" for you is different that it is for me, or for him, or for her, or for Ford Mo. Co., or for Dealer XYZ. YOUR definition is what is best for YOU, not for the selling dealer, or for me, or for anyone else. FACT: The industry *standard* for retail sales is 40% Margin Of Profit (MOP). A 40% MOP is a 67% mark-up (multiply cost by 1.67 for 40% MOP). Do you *really* want to see a 67% mark-up on a car??? That means if the invoice on a car is $40K, a 40% MOP would make it a $66,800.00 list price. If the cost was $50K, it would be $83,500.oo. I think we're doing well at the current market price, thank you very much (i.e. What the market will bear/bare). Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT4578 Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Phil, are you a car salesman? (null) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Rodgers Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 bigmac70 I think you bring up great points, I am not a dealer so I can not answer form their stand-point. I will tell you it is my opinion the ADM's when there is demand may spark up short term profit, but to me they lose more customers than they gain and in the long run they end up losing. I am a perfect example, I buy cars like crazy (Every 2 years or so, Stupid I know) and I have several dealerships that are black listed based on some of this foolishness. I tell everyone I can and being a Car Enthusiast many people ask my opinion. So they know how much that $10K ADM adds to their pocket short term, but they have no way of telling how much it takes away long term because those customers never give them a chance. Way to many Dealerships are still run like the old days, if that is the case with me I just walk out. Example when they ask "How much do you want to spend a month?" or "If you buy today we can do xxxxx deal". They insult my intelligence as if we do not all have computers and know what the invoice is. My 2 Cents, Referal and Repeat business for Excellent Customer Service and Fair prices will be the Dealership that last the longest and ends up the most profitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goin2dirt Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 I agree 100%. Greed and customers for life are another. Go ahead and gouge whoever you want. I guarantee once they realize just what a rip off it was they will never return. Offer and sell at a fair price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judgeman6970 Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 The dealers do it because Ford corporate puts their head in the sand and lets them get away with it. My family and my business have been buying Fords form the same dealer for nearly 20 years. My company has 12 pick up trucks and buys and trades in 4 a year. In late 2006 I went to buy my first GT500 and they wanted 20K ADM. After haggling back and forth for a couple hours they dropped to 17.5K ADM and said thats the best they can do so I left discouraged and went down the road a couple of miles to a dealer I never bought from before. I talked to the sales guy for 10 minutes and he said that he would order a GT500 for me for sticker and I said deal. So in my opinion its all based on the character of the dealer and the greed factor. OH and buy the way we moved ALL personal and company business to the new dealer. +1......Love the fact that all your "other" Ford business went to the "better" dealer. Any dealer that hits me with an "adm" once is black-listed forever, period.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2010KonaBlueGT Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Phil, are you a car salesman? (null) Me? A car salesman? NOOOOOoooooo. Not just no, but HAIL NO! No no no, nope, not me. Never have been never will be. I don't want to insult anyone but my perspective regarding salesmen in general and car salesmen in particular isn't real good. I have a few GOOD friends in the business and I've told them my feelings. Nope, not me. Uh uh. Never. No way. I was a Auto Repair Tech (i.e. mechanic) for most of my life and then started teaching Auto-tech when I blew my back out and could no longer work in the field. Now, I'm just retired and working on my own stuff. Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txcobra Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Have to agree with Phil here. I know people are infuriated with ADMs and the dealers who ask for them, but we do have to remember Phil's points....if you don't pay it, they won't continue. If a dealer is asking it and someone is willing to pay it, then it is a win win for those two parties, but it does inflate the market. If a dealer decides to hold firm on ADM with a long time customer, then they should be prepared to lose that customer forever (to ATI's point). I can't blame a dealer for trying to capture a limited market for those willing to pay a premium to be "first to have one". People pay a premium every day for their impatience....convenience stores, expedited shipping, etc. But I won't pay over sticker.....ever. Am I mad at my local dealer for asking it? Nope. I personally know someone who paid that dealer 15k over and he is happy. My advice, don't get mad, just go elsewhere. Every dealer has a different strategy and situation. Find the one that works for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky44 Posted August 25, 2012 Report Share Posted August 25, 2012 Gotta agree with the "don't pay it" comments. I'm taking delivery of my '13 GT500 vert soon. Local dealer wanted $50k ADM. Sent me on an internet search where I found my car for MSRP. Thank God for the internet; makes it a lot harder for dealers to actually collect the ADM, at least from people who will work at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy M Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 I grew up for the most part a Ford fan. My family had a T-Bird, Ranchero, Bronco, two Lincolns etc. I've had two '70 B302's, restored one of them and sold my last one in '02. I've always been a huge Mustang fan. As such I was in the market for a 2013 GT500. I looked around, called dealers and did my due diligence. All of the dealers in my area wanted $10K+ ADM or so or didn't have allocation, share of Nations BS, wouldn't call back etc. It was such a PIA dealing with Ford dealers that I started to ponder if it was really worth it. Reading here and at other forums about cancelled allocations, false promises, pulling deposits to keep the car on the showroom floor etc I decided to stop looking. I always had my eye on the new Challenger since they came out in '08. Great looking cars imo. Dodge had also come out with the new Durango R/T and we were due for a new family crap hauler. So in Oct of '11 we bought the Durango R/T. I also bought a '12 Ram 1500 Sport in Feb. '12 through my business. And this last summer I got my '12 Blue Streak Pearl Challenger SRT8. The Dodge dealer I've worked with has been great. I've gotten great deals and the service has been good to go along with it. Because of my experience with Ford dealers, they're insistence on ADM and the poor attitude to go along with it all I am now an owner of 3 Mopars. I remain a Mustang fan but there are other products out there that can suit me just as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunny Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 nice car randy!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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