The late 60's all over again

[Dennis70Mach]

Knowing what we know right now, doesn't this seem like the late 60's all over again? What I mean is this. Most people would agree that the pinnacle year for the old muscle car era was 1970. Ford, GM and Mopar all had their highest horsepower output available that year. Then....1971 came and only Mopar had their high horsepower engines available and by 1972 those were gone.

 

How does that relate to now. The new CAFE fuel economy standards are going into effect, I believe for either 2015 or 2016. This will cause DRAMATIC mandatory increases in fuel economy for all car manufacturers. What is coming to market now was actually on the drawing board a couple of years ago. So what will be coming to market in a few years is on the drawing board now. My point is that it feels like 1968 or so, where we are still building up to high horsepower cars, 2013 GT500, Camaro ZL1, etc. But the dark cloud is on the horizon, just like it was in the late 1960s. It seems unlikely that these high horsepower numbers will still be here come 2015 or 2016 with the mandatory new CAFE standards for fuel economy. Granted, there will still be sports cars, but will they have the incredible horsepower numbers of the 2013 GT500 or the ZL1? I personally think we are all living through a second deja vu of the late 1960s. I would suggest if you don't have one now put your plan together to get one in the next year or two, before its 1971 or 1972 all over again.

[speedyman]

The current price levels of these high tech, ultra muscle cars will lead to their extinction long before the tree huggers wipe them away. Technology and engineering will have the ability to perpetuate these models but at a higher cost which will render them unviable in the market place.

[YZD263]

Knowing what we know right now, doesn't this seem like the late 60's all over again? What I mean is this. Most people would agree that the pinnacle year for the old muscle car era was 1970. Ford, GM and Mopar all had their highest horsepower output available that year. Then....1971 came and only Mopar had their high horsepower engines available and by 1972 those were gone.

 

How does that relate to now. The new CAFE fuel economy standards are going into effect, I believe for either 2015 or 2016. This will cause DRAMATIC mandatory increases in fuel economy for all car manufacturers. What is coming to market now was actually on the drawing board a couple of years ago. So what will be coming to market in a few years is on the drawing board now. My point is that it feels like 1968 or so, where we are still building up to high horsepower cars, 2013 GT500, Camaro ZL1, etc. But the dark cloud is on the horizon, just like it was in the late 1960s. It seems unlikely that these high horsepower numbers will still be here come 2015 or 2016 with the mandatory new CAFE standards for fuel economy. Granted, there will still be sports cars, but will they have the incredible horsepower numbers of the 2013 GT500 or the ZL1? I personally think we are all living through a second deja vu of the late 1960s. I would suggest if you don't have one now put your plan together to get one in the next year or two, before its 1971 or 1972 all over again.

 

+1. I see it pretty much the same way. The only difference with the early '70s is that now, the more advanced technology will make the drop in performance less drastic. Some direct injection turbo 4 cylinders already achieve over 250 hp, with turbo V6s pushing 400. Cars will also be lighter, which will lessen the impact of lower horsepower on performance. There will be a drop in performance, just not as dramatic as what happened in the mid '70s.

[71sixpack]

I agree that we are at the crossroads at the end of an era. The '14s will be the last and hopefully we go out with a bang. As far as cost being the nail in the coffin, that I don't agree with. Ford has been selling at least 4k Shelby's a year since 2007 so the money is there. Don't forget the high power muscle cars of yore weren't cheap back in the day either. That's why they didn't sell that many. I think ZL1s were $7500, which was twice to three times the price of the average new car in 1969.

 

Joe

[speedyman]

I agree that we are at the crossroads at the end of an era. The '14s will be the last and hopefully we go out with a bang. As far as cost being the nail in the coffin, that I don't agree with. Ford has been selling at least 4k Shelby's a year since 2007 so the money is there. Don't forget the high power muscle cars of yore weren't cheap back in the day either. That's why they didn't sell that many. I think ZL1s were $7500, which was twice to three times the price of the average new car in 1969.

 

Joe

 

 

I think that you and a few other enthusiasts here are going to be quite surprised at how poorly $60,000.00 Mustangs are selling in 6 months.

[mike.s]

4 thousand gt500 against hundreds of thousands of focus,fusions, etc. yearly and with the gt500 hitting 20 mpgs it doesnt hurt as bad. i dont think it will affect as badly as everyone thinks

[speedyman]

4 thousand gt500 against hundreds of thousands of focus,fusions, etc. yearly and with the gt500 hitting 20 mpgs it doesnt hurt as bad. i dont think it will affect as badly as everyone thinks

 

 

Exactly, the government mileage thing is an average. The GT500s low sales volume is a blessing in this regard. What will kill these cars is price. They were barely selling enough of them to continue production when you could buy them in the 40s. Many of the 2013s will need to go out the door in the 60s without major discounting and incentives which will eventually come to the rescue. That is a major problem after the initial "got have it" guys are done and in one. 60 grand for a Mustang is flatly laughable outside of hard core Ford circles.

[verlyn12]

I believe the price is all relative to the times. When we bought the 68 GTO brand new off the lot at $3200 the car payment was $83.92.

My husband at that time made $150/month. The months the car insurance was due were pretty lean. 44 years later we didn't blink an eye at the $60,000 because at this point in our lives we can. We farm and ranch and the prices of new combines and tractors don't even compare!

The "boomers" that bought the muscle cars in the 60s and 70s are knocking on the retirement door. Time will tell if they want to spend their money for "wants or needs." Interesting times ahead with the passing of CS as well to see what happens to the Mustang and Shelby market.

[71sixpack]

 

 

I think that you and a few other enthusiasts here are going to be quite surprised at how poorly $60,000.00 Mustangs are selling in 6 months.

 

 

Man I hope so. That just means I'll get one cheap next year .

[speedyman]

Man I hope so. That just means I'll get one cheap next year .

 

 

Let history be your guide here. The 2007s were as hot as the sun and 20 grand cheaper selling into an unsaturated, hungry market. What happened to them. Bing, Bang, Bust! 0% financing to the rescue and that was in their 1st year when many actually believed they were making some kind of a cock-eyed investment. These cars have never been the hot items that many emotional enthusiasts percieve them to be. The dealers around here generally sit on these things for 12-18 months them dump 'em out at invoice and rebate. 60 some grand for a Mustang is going to fall down and go boom real quick, bet your farm on it. Use common sense, let the dealers rear end the guys that just have to have one at the open. Far better prices will be in store for those with a modicum of patience as allways.

[springer]

I was at a local Ford dealer Saturday looking at a '13 Boss 302 and asked the salesman if they had sold any GT 500's yet. He said that he sold one a couple days ago - a 2013 coupe for $67,000 - and that was the sticker with no mark-ups!!! He even pulled out the sales ticket and showed me the invoice listing all the options and prices. That's a lot of hay for a pony!!!

[SVT NAJA]

I was at a local Ford dealer Saturday looking at a '13 Boss 302 and asked the salesman if they had sold any GT 500's yet. He said that he sold one a couple days ago - a 2013 coupe for $67,000 - and that was the sticker with no mark-ups!!! He even pulled out the sales ticket and showed me the invoice listing all the options and prices. That's a lot of hay for a pony!!!

 

 

+1...

[LuckySnake]

Knowing what we know right now, doesn't this seem like the late 60's all over again? What I mean is this. Most people would agree that the pinnacle year for the old muscle car era was 1970. Ford, GM and Mopar all had their highest horsepower output available that year. Then....1971 came and only Mopar had their high horsepower engines available and by 1972 those were gone.

 

How does that relate to now. The new CAFE fuel economy standards are going into effect, I believe for either 2015 or 2016. This will cause DRAMATIC mandatory increases in fuel economy for all car manufacturers. What is coming to market now was actually on the drawing board a couple of years ago. So what will be coming to market in a few years is on the drawing board now. My point is that it feels like 1968 or so, where we are still building up to high horsepower cars, 2013 GT500, Camaro ZL1, etc. But the dark cloud is on the horizon, just like it was in the late 1960s. It seems unlikely that these high horsepower numbers will still be here come 2015 or 2016 with the mandatory new CAFE standards for fuel economy. Granted, there will still be sports cars, but will they have the incredible horsepower numbers of the 2013 GT500 or the ZL1? I personally think we are all living through a second deja vu of the late 1960s. I would suggest if you don't have one now put your plan together to get one in the next year or two, before its 1971 or 1972 all over again.

 

In 71 we still had the Boss 351, 429CJ and 429SCJ not to mention the 429 Torinos. If I recall correctly, the only car Ford had for 69 & 70 with more HP than the 1971 429CJ and 429SCJ was the B429, is that what you have?

[svtkeith]

Knowing what we know right now, doesn't this seem like the late 60's all over again? What I mean is this. Most people would agree that the pinnacle year for the old muscle car era was 1970. Ford, GM and Mopar all had their highest horsepower output available that year. Then....1971 came and only Mopar had their high horsepower engines available and by 1972 those were gone.

 

How does that relate to now. The new CAFE fuel economy standards are going into effect, I believe for either 2015 or 2016. This will cause DRAMATIC mandatory increases in fuel economy for all car manufacturers. What is coming to market now was actually on the drawing board a couple of years ago. So what will be coming to market in a few years is on the drawing board now. My point is that it feels like 1968 or so, where we are still building up to high horsepower cars, 2013 GT500, Camaro ZL1, etc. But the dark cloud is on the horizon, just like it was in the late 1960s. It seems unlikely that these high horsepower numbers will still be here come 2015 or 2016 with the mandatory new CAFE standards for fuel economy. Granted, there will still be sports cars, but will they have the incredible horsepower numbers of the 2013 GT500 or the ZL1? I personally think we are all living through a second deja vu of the late 1960s. I would suggest if you don't have one now put your plan together to get one in the next year or two, before its 1971 or 1972 all over again.

 

 

 

I agree totally with this post....It all ended in the early 70's and it will end again that you can be sure of..Gabb the high HP cars now

 

they won't be made much longer.

[speedyman]

Ford, GM, and Chrysler will continue to build these cars as long as they sell. Nothing else is at work here and it is no more complicated than that. There has been a huge escalation in pricing of GT500s. These cars are absolutely bad ass and very desireable but becoming stupidly expensive. C'mon, $65,000.00 for a Mustang. How utterly ridiculous is that. This absurd pricing will crush sales and eliminate the model when sales drop below their allready low levels. Maybe Ford can treat the GT500s the way GM does with the Z06s by discounting them 15 grand or more from sticker. Sticker prices on new cars are generally a joke. It is hard to believe that anyone could be dumb enough to pay full sticker for a new vehicle when you consider the inevitable discounting and ferrocious rates of depreciation.