slbgtsc Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 Thanks to Ed at Rizza Racing here in Denver for a great time on the Dyno today. First run on my Shelby GT with a Saleen blower 3.0 pulley (11psi), 6.5 lid, Pypes LTs with catted x pipe, MMS muffler and JLT series 3 CAI. 492 HP/ 463 TQ on a dyno jet at 5280 feet. We forgot to turn on the fan for the first and second run so the car heat soaked pretty bad even with my AFCO heat exchanger. She ran a 486 HP at 439.89 TQ on the 2nd pull. I let her cool down and we turned on the fans for the third pull. I loaded the race tune in and went for it. Race tune was 508.27 and 479 TQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helix Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 Very nice; congrats. :burnout: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slbgtsc Posted April 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 Thanks I was pretty happy my previous runs was done several years ago with a different CAI, shorty headers, off road x-pipe, stock SGT muffers, 3.55 gears and a 3.2 pulley on a Superflow Win Dyno. The street tune put down 435HP and 418TQ, and the race tune was 440hp and 442 tq. I figured it would pick up a few horses and more torque with the long tube headers vs the shorties, and the larger CAI (90mm vs 110mm) couldn't hurt either. I saw a 35 hp increase when I went from a 3.4 pulley to a 3.2 pulley. So going to a 3.0 was sure to add some HP as well. My tune is still a little rich at 11.3-11.4 I would prefer it at 11.8 at least it is safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awakeinAZ Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 Nice numbers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08sgt1042 Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 very nice sorry I missed you today had to get back to Parker.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slbgtsc Posted April 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 very nice sorry I missed you today had to get back to Parker.... Yeah me too. We had baseball with my oldest son in the morning so I didn't get to Ed's until close to 3pm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry T Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Nice numbers !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Is that with a stock bottom end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slbgtsc Posted April 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Is that with a stock bottom end? Yes it is. I usually drive it with one pulley size larger which drops the HP down a bit, but I wanted to see exactly where I was on the smaller pulley. I think with a tune that is dialed in around 11.8 AFR and the larger pulley should put me 465-475 for the street. For track days with race gas I can swap to the smaller pulley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2007_Shelby_GT Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Not to say anything bad about your tuner or dyno numbers, I just find it interesting when comparing numbers with installed equipment, how vast and varied the results can be. You've obviously got a lot installed and running higher boost than me, but my dyno numbers were similar with nothing more than a Eforce supercharger at 5 psi, SLP muffler deletes, CAI, and a good tune from VMP (466 hp and 428 tq). I suppose you can chalk it up to the type of dyno, temperatures, tuner, etc. - like I said, just interesting. Great numbers nonetheless! Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJ Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Not to say anything bad about your tuner or dyno numbers, I just find it interesting when comparing numbers with installed equipment, how vast and varied the results can be. You've obviously got a lot installed and running higher boost than me, but my dyno numbers were similar with nothing more than a Eforce supercharger at 5 psi, SLP muffler deletes, CAI, and a good tune from VMP (466 hp and 428 tq). I suppose you can chalk it up to the type of dyno, temperatures, tuner, etc. - like I said, just interesting. Great numbers nonetheless! Sam Remember, you are in Florida, this is at over 5,200 feet. In absolutely no way comparable. You would not be making even close to those numbers here in Colorado. Normal loss of power around 20-25%+ from 0 elevation to 5,200 feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJ Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Yes it is. I usually drive it with one pulley size larger which drops the HP down a bit, but I wanted to see exactly where I was on the smaller pulley. I think with a tune that is dialed in around 11.8 AFR and the larger pulley should put me 465-475 for the street. For track days with race gas I can swap to the smaller pulley. At least from my experience in the last month, you are right at the very edge of the stock bottom end. I was making a bit less hp then that when mine went boom last month. Just fair warning!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twobjshelbys Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 I thought dynos were supposed to be be scaled to compensated for altitude (atmospheric pressure) loss? When I was getting work done on my Cobra the tuner said he had to have his dyno measured by the state (just like scales and gas pumps). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJ Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 I thought dynos were supposed to be be scaled to compensated for altitude (atmospheric pressure) loss? When I was getting work done on my Cobra the tuner said he had to have his dyno measured by the state (just like scales and gas pumps). Most dyno's you can plug in a correction factor for multiple elements including altitude, but there are so many factors, there is no real reliable correciton factor. You would have to have a full weather station to plug in all the altitude desity readings at the time....on and on. I think you can right a book on if and how you can factor in correciton in on any dyno. Most correction factors that I've seen can't really take into account oxygen levels. Even altitude desity does not factor oxygen correctly. Oxygen is our biggest killer at this altitude. Basically, if you want real world comparisons on one car to another, you must run them on the same dyno in the same time period to have any real basis. You can read tons of data on this topic and never get to far. I've read so much on this, and read through so many altitude arguments that it's just not worth it. Level's of boost start playing in. Supercharging vs. Turbo charging actually makes a huge difference when you are talking efficiencies and altitude. It's pretty crazy and endless. But on average, altitude from sea level to Denver is a loss of about 25% in real world HP. A 13 second quarter mile NA car at sea level will on average run a 14.50 at Bandimere. Forced induction a bit less of a difference. Matt invented his Snow Performance products when he moved here to Colorado and realized the effects of oxygen and altitude on his drag Mustang. Then he made a nice little business out of that! Funny, I'm one of the first guys Matt met in Denver when we were pitted next to each other many years ago at Bandimere. He was wondering why his stang was so slow and thought there was a problem. Once we talked about altitude, we calculated that his car was running just fine. He wasn't very happy about being so slow, but at least everybody is equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2007_Shelby_GT Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 I'd have to agree with Tony that the dyno should definitely be calibrated for altitude, temp, etc, otherwise we'd probably hear about more engines going boom OR not developing the power expected! I have heard that the 4.6 is good for reliable 550 crank hp without internal mods, but I've also heard 750 was the limit - For me, I think I'll stay right where I am now, it's plenty! Like I said, it's just interesting to see the differences in numbers! Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Like pulling the pin on a hand grenade. How long can you hold the spoon down? Then about 5 seconds later........boom. I do not have the funds for a SC but if I did I think I would limit to about 7-8 psi and about 475 crank HP. That is just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slbgtsc Posted April 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2012 Not to say anything bad about your tuner or dyno numbers, I just find it interesting when comparing numbers with installed equipment, how vast and varied the results can be. You've obviously got a lot installed and running higher boost than me, but my dyno numbers were similar with nothing more than a Eforce supercharger at 5 psi, SLP muffler deletes, CAI, and a good tune from VMP (466 hp and 428 tq). I suppose you can chalk it up to the type of dyno, temperatures, tuner, etc. - like I said, just interesting. Great numbers nonetheless! Sam Basically you lose 10 HP for every thousand feet of elevation. The system I bought should at sea level produce 450+ rwhp. When we ran it on the dyno with the stock exhaust and the blower it produced only 400hp/400 tq. I was losing about 2psi due to the elevation. The eforce is a more effecient blower compared to the saleen system, but it wasn't out when I bought my saleen setup. Not only do you have to take the air temp/elevation etc into consideration but you also have to look at gear ratio. My original dyno pulls were done on a different dyno with 3.55 gears and now I'm running 3.73. A lot of variables for sure. If I had it to do over again I would do the eforce with long tube headers/cams, and a good cai setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slbgtsc Posted April 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2012 I thought dynos were supposed to be be scaled to compensated for altitude (atmospheric pressure) loss? When I was getting work done on my Cobra the tuner said he had to have his dyno measured by the state (just like scales and gas pumps). Dynos may indeed be calibrated for altitude but altitude certainly has an effect on the amount of HP and TQ a car produces. If I took my car to sea level and dyno'd it the numbers would be very different and the boost I see would easily change by 2psi. The 3.0 pulley that I tested here is supposed to produce 13 psi of boost, and I only see 11 with it. It would be interesting to see if a whipple or eforce is affected in a similar way as my Saleen blower? I think both use a the 2300 TVS blower and are more efficient. I know I read on Mackenzies forum where a v-6 running a paxton kit had to drop down in pulley size to compensate for the altitude. My canned tune is a little rich so I'm sure a dyno tune at elevation would give me more performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroDan Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 Like pulling the pin on a hand grenade. How long can you hold the spoon down? Then about 5 seconds later........boom. I do not have the funds for a SC but if I did I think I would limit to about 7-8 psi and about 475 crank HP. That is just me. I know at least one person with 07 SGT/SC set up just like mine that has done serious 1/4 runs for years now with no problems...stock internals. Mine is fine at the rev limiter, but I can't help but cringe when I'm standing on her for extended time... I will do internals or a FR Aluminator one of these days... She rocks around 10.5# you can see dyno numbers below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slbgtsc Posted April 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 At least from my experience in the last month, you are right at the very edge of the stock bottom end. I was making a bit less hp then that when mine went boom last month. Just fair warning!! I've been running the 3.0 in the summer for track days for 2+ years now. Important factors are a good tune and good gas. Any detonation will certainly kill the motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twobjshelbys Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 Most dyno's you can plug in a correction factor for multiple elements including altitude, but there are so many factors, there is no real reliable correciton factor. You would have to have a full weather station to plug in all the altitude desity readings at the time....on and on. I think you can right a book on if and how you can factor in correciton in on any dyno. Most correction factors that I've seen can't really take into account oxygen levels. Even altitude desity does not factor oxygen correctly. Oxygen is our biggest killer at this altitude. Basically, if you want real world comparisons on one car to another, you must run them on the same dyno in the same time period to have any real basis. You can read tons of data on this topic and never get to far. I've read so much on this, and read through so many altitude arguments that it's just not worth it. Level's of boost start playing in. Supercharging vs. Turbo charging actually makes a huge difference when you are talking efficiencies and altitude. It's pretty crazy and endless. But on average, altitude from sea level to Denver is a loss of about 25% in real world HP. A 13 second quarter mile NA car at sea level will on average run a 14.50 at Bandimere. Forced induction a bit less of a difference. Matt invented his Snow Performance products when he moved here to Colorado and realized the effects of oxygen and altitude on his drag Mustang. Then he made a nice little business out of that! Funny, I'm one of the first guys Matt met in Denver when we were pitted next to each other many years ago at Bandimere. He was wondering why his stang was so slow and thought there was a problem. Once we talked about altitude, we calculated that his car was running just fine. He wasn't very happy about being so slow, but at least everybody is equal. Those of us who have to deal with the altitude and dynos and all that stuff are all to familiar with it. But there are two things worth elaborating on: The reduced Oxygen at altitude is the reason that gasoline octane levels drop at our altitude. The octane here is 2 points below the equivalent sea level. (Your 87 is 85 here, and so on, with the high end of 91 being 93 at sea level, but even lower altitudes only have 91. Mid grade is 87 here at most places. Sometimes 89). Second, the oxygen thing is what makes the Bandimere top fuel competition so interesting. They really have to work to make their engines run well here. Also, just to be sure there is a difference between "calibrated" and "compensated". Calibrated (i.e., weights and measures stamps) mean that two dynos should give the same result. Compensation is more difficult but would say that 550hp at sea leavel is adjusted to 550hp here. Most likely there is no compensation since as was described it's complicated. So we use the "rule of thumb" but some day I will take the GT to a dyno and see how it compared to sea level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twobjshelbys Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 One more thing. If you are pushing your engine to the max be careful if you ge the work done here. Let's say the 4.6L3V engine can do 550 crank HP. Set it here for 550 with pulley and tune and ride it hard at sea level with something like 625 and you'll have some trouble... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurgan Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 I don't doubt the numbers, but you are definitely pushing your luck. The number of romps in the low rpm's with that blower/TQ combo is directly proportional to the end time for a stock rod(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandit67 Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 Well aside from all the hp/correction factor/boost discussions, it was a fun time on Saturday. Yes, it's all complicated as far as dyno numbers, but I'm pretty confident my dyno is pretty well dialed in due to the assistance of a tuning legend who sold me his dyno which we brought up from sea level and then helped me get it all set up. It is very consistent as far as numbers go now that I've got my dynoing abilities tuned in. I have found in a couple of instances that my dyno's numbers are a little less than numbers coming off of dynos down at sea level, even with the correction factors, so there is no doubt differences between the same model of dyno at different shops. But as far as my particular dyno is concerned, I'm pleased with the consistency in readings with each car I put on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slbgtsc Posted April 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 I need to get on the dyno with my 3.2 pulley and my updated tune that addressed the AFR. After Ford fixes the tranny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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