ARMORINE Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 well i finnished a head swap on 4181 a few days ago and she refuses to fire. turns over just fine but no bang. at this point im at a loss. my tuners coming over thuresday to go over the car with me. the plan was to use the old tune to limp her over to the shop for a dyno tune. i've double checked everything. the timings perfect. shes getting fuel. ignition is getting power. dont know how much though. she should be making a bang. cross your fingers EDIT: 4181......i do miss 4066 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socalwrench Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 These are just a few thoughts, so please don't get offended if you've already checked them: fuel pressure at the injectors, overall compression on the cylinders, intake restriction, MAF malfunction, camshafts to crankshaft timing, CPS to TDC reference, or CPS malfunction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACERX009 Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 These are just a few thoughts, so please don't get offended if you've already checked them: fuel pressure at the injectors, overall compression on the cylinders, intake restriction, MAF malfunction, camshafts to crankshaft timing, CPS to TDC reference, or CPS malfunction. He has to run thru everything you stated I don't think its a tune problem !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMORINE Posted February 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 im open to all suggestions. i've double checked the timing on the engine. i followed fords manual to the letter so i dont think thats it. im gonna be checking compression tommarow. havent been able to varify spark from the plugs. its definitly getting fuel. i can smell it, though that doesnt mean the injectors arnt firing out of order. probably going to be opening the engine back up tommarow. my tuners coming over and bringing a bunch of equipment to start running tests. gonna be a long day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug_GT350 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 I have no thoughts other than to say it's probably something simple, don't start tearing back apart until you have eliminated all the simple stuff... bad ground... blown fuse... disconnected wire.... trust me, I've undid more stuff that I didn't have to over my lifetime..... good luck, and I'm sure you will let us know what it was...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACERX009 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 im open to all suggestions. i've double checked the timing on the engine. i followed fords manual to the letter so i dont think thats it. im gonna be checking compression tommarow. havent been able to varify spark from the plugs. its definitly getting fuel. i can smell it, though that doesnt mean the injectors arnt firing out of order. probably going to be opening the engine back up tommarow. my tuners coming over and bringing a bunch of equipment to start running tests. gonna be a long day Not to sound like a mean person but if you are not a automotive tech stop what your doing and get real help. Before you make things worse by you saying you smell the fuel instead of hooking a pressure gauge up is not a good thing. These engine are not the old engine where you can beat with a wrench and it will still start. But for 6,000.00 you can buy a new engine !!! I will pray for you !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwestercamp Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 not trying to sound like a jerk but why on Gods green earth did you change the heads, was something wrong? Best bang for the buck is gears and a blower, and maybe cams? Good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACERX009 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 not trying to sound like a jerk but why on Gods green earth did you change the heads, was something wrong? Best bang for the buck is gears and a blower, and maybe cams? Good luck to you. The heads with gears and headers and new intake with cams the car would be a beast !!! I wouldn't even do my own heads just for the reason of one error your out a lot of money. But if your a back yard mechanic your just playing russian roulette this engine are extremely touchy with really no margin for errors. I remember in my pontiac 455 half my pushrods were bent and the car still ran great and still dusted my brothers stang. I had to take the intake off thats how bent they were my brother was pissed. He said lets go again this time, I was back home by the time he hit the finish line. I ended up putting a valve into the piston and it still ran decent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMORINE Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 im a rated aircraft mechanic, currently an engineering student. i put stage 3 mmr ported heads on. aiming for 350+ rwhp on a dynodynamics dyno. my tuner didnt make it out yesterday so got nothing done on it so far. gotta wait for him to bring his test equipment over. in the mean time i put a trickle charger on the battery. gonna have it at full charge when we start back on the car. already have 4:10s, LTs, gt500 throttle body, cams, UDP, CMDP. heads were the next logical step since im not going to supercharge it till i build the bottom end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACERX009 Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 im a rated aircraft mechanic, currently an engineering student. i put stage 3 mmr ported heads on. aiming for 350+ rwhp on a dynodynamics dyno. my tuner didnt make it out yesterday so got nothing done on it so far. gotta wait for him to bring his test equipment over. in the mean time i put a trickle charger on the battery. gonna have it at full charge when we start back on the car. already have 4:10s, LTs, gt500 throttle body, cams, UDP, CMDP. heads were the next logical step since im not going to supercharge it till i build the bottom end. You should get more than 350hp with that whole setup are you thinking paxton thats the route. I would like to go to keep the new intake on but either way those heads are next for me. All these advanced engine with there computer this and that. I sometimes get an itch to rip the engine out. Then slam a beast back in like the old days with a massive Holley domenator but then the my meds kick in and all is forgotten. Good luck and hope its a simple thing !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMORINE Posted February 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 well i didnt have a compression tester but after talking with my tuner were pretty sure hats what it is. going to spray some oil into the cylinders monday and double check compression with a compression tester. if it doesnt come up then the motors gotta come apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACERX009 Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 well i didnt have a compression tester but after talking with my tuner were pretty sure hats what it is. going to spray some oil into the cylinders monday and double check compression with a compression tester. if it doesnt come up then the motors gotta come apart. You may know this but autozone lends out tools and and gauges or do the old fashion way buy use return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMORINE Posted February 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 have to have a special adapter for the 3v motors. gonna get that from my tuner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Are the cams aligned properly? As far as Stage 3 heads, cams, 62 mm throttle, intake manifold, and long tubes you should hit that 350 RWHP Good luck and please keep us posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACERX009 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I went to church to pray for your car but they wouldn't let me in is this a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMORINE Posted February 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 yeah its a really bad thing. ran a compression test yesterday.... i still havent managed to pull my jaw off the floor, so im forced to communicate through text till my jaw can be fixed...... i knew the motor sounded weird well now i know why. tested cylinders 1 and 5 didnt bother with the rest. the gauge didnt even twitch. 0 compression, i thought maybe my gauge was broken so i hooked it to my shop line and gave it 30 psi. it read on the dot...... going to start running leak tests tommarow and find where its getting out. ive never had an engine read 0 compression, i've checked timing multiple times. when i swapp the cams over i didnt touch the cam bolts so i know the gears havent slipped. something else is going on. i just got the heads back from the machine shop, its possble they screwed something up though very unlikely. i trust the owner and his employees with my life so im not going to assume that yet. as of now it could only be a few things that would cause this. leak test will find it for sure though. im gonna pop the exhaust rocker and intake rockers off and run a comp test to see what i get. once i start eliminating things as the culprit this will start getting alot easier. thanks for the encouragement guys im gonna get her fixed just may take alittle bit longer. i got a week till the first track day so i may still get her up in time for some fun.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACERX009 Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Are the valves opening and closing when you cranked the engine over ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 As stated, I think this could still possibly be a cam timing issue. If the valves are open during the compression stroke you would have 0 compression. Good luck, and please keep us posted. We are all very curious and wishing you the very best and hopefully a cheap solution. Hope there is no damage to any internals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug_GT350 Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 In my earlier days when doing stuff like this I thought I had the timing marks dead on, only to find out it was 180° out! Thankfully it was on the mother in laws Pontiac and there were no clearance issues. I guess the point I'm making is don't go by what "looks" correct get the proper manual and really make sure! If it's out of time you can do some serious damage just cranking it over! Better safe than sorry! Again, good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMORINE Posted March 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 the timings perfect... i just ran a leak test.... the intake valves are not closing... had air coming out of the intake, i ran the test with valve covers off so i could varify valve position. im gonna start pulling it apart. going to yank the lash adjustors colapse them and put them back in and run the leak test again to see if i can get the intake valves to close. havent checked the exhaust valves yet. if i cant get the valves closed the heads will have to come off and go back to the machine shop to have new seats installed... im really really just hoping the lash adjustors are pumped up. i didnt colapse them during the install because i was told they should bleed down by turning the motor over after the install. heres to hoping this is the problem. p.s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC#0471 Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Is the 4.6 and interference engine with reguards to Valve vs. Piston ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMORINE Posted March 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 i think so. its defintitly that with the cams i have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACERX009 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 What cams did you go with ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMORINE Posted March 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Mutha thumprs. For a sound cam I think I did pretty good. Picked up just shy of 40 rwhp just with the cam alone but that's prolly because I had the supporting gear to make the cams really come alive. I'm hoping for another 40 from these heads(long shot lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Did you say you picked up 40 RWHP with just the cams? No other modifications? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMORINE Posted March 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 i already had a full bolt on set up minus intake and water pump. massive 1 7/8 inch headers with 3 inch collectors no cats, mufflers might as well not be there. 4:10s in the rear. went from 289 rwhp to 327 on a dyno dynamics. so technicaly 38 rwhp. this was on the same dyno dynamics dyno with the same correcting factors. the dyno reads way low. havent had it on a dyno jet yet. cant remember what my tuner said was the difference, i think it was 8.5 percent id have to call and ask him. any ways the heads have to come off. i completed my tests. seats were cut too low. its not the machine shops fault. i should have dropped the cams off with them so they could measure everything. any ways my two options are replace the valve seats or have them cut the valve stems down to meet spec(how you adjust lash on modmotors) there is a limit to how much the valves can be cut down so i may have no choice but to have the seats replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACERX009 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 i already had a full bolt on set up minus intake and water pump. massive 1 7/8 inch headers with 3 inch collectors no cats, mufflers might as well not be there. 4:10s in the rear. went from 289 rwhp to 327 on a dyno dynamics. so technicaly 38 rwhp. this was on the same dyno dynamics dyno with the same correcting factors. the dyno reads way low. havent had it on a dyno jet yet. cant remember what my tuner said was the difference, i think it was 8.5 percent id have to call and ask him. any ways the heads have to come off. i completed my tests. seats were cut too low. its not the machine shops fault. i should have dropped the cams off with them so they could measure everything. any ways my two options are replace the valve seats or have them cut the valve stems down to meet spec(how you adjust lash on modmotors) there is a limit to how much the valves can be cut down so i may have no choice but to have the seats replaced. Thank God no engine damage !!! If, I don't trade up for the 2013 GT500 heads will be next but would debate on buying them done or having them done by a machine shop. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMORINE Posted March 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 haha yeah i was terrified i had screwed something. when i was working as an aircraft mechanic i use to overhaul cylinder heads and handle prepping all the engines and parts for ressembly. i should have known to check the lash. i made the assumption that the lash adjustors would take up the new valve positions. i know the feeling man. id love some boost but im too dedicated to my car. im going to have it till i die. i'll have a gt500 sitting next to her some day. just gonna be after college. in the mean time im readying to start a 347 build and soon as i get my car up and running again im going to order pistons for my teksid and start on it. with anyluck this wont eat into the budget for that motor. i know its not going to be "cheap" but hopefully the new seats wont be too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Rodgers Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Glad to hear you figured it all out, hopefully she is back on the road soon!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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