HEY FORD MOTOR COMPANY! LISTEN UP!!!!

[mad103]

BAD IDEA!!! Well at first, it started out sounding good and then reality hit home. The money going charity is great. No dealer markup is great. But there's one huge leak with this system. Not only would this tick off the high volume Ford dealers with Ford,but there are other concerns as well. Even though you said 1 ticket per person for 1 grand, I see someone very, very influential with alot of mulla,(especially for investment purposes), getting alot of his friends,relatives and/or unrelated people to buy a ticket, by giving them 1500 to cover ticket price and 500 for just using their name for purchasing ticket as well as buying the shelby from them at msrp if and when their number is picked and won. Sadly that seems so unfair and I believe illegal, but heck,... they even buy people votes for big government elections. The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer! Unfortunately,Alot of people would take the quick 500 or even lesser dollar amount for that chance to get the quick money. This "One (or more) Influential"persons then,could and would have one massive collection of brand new KR's at msrp,and all us other poor folks who thought they had a good chance to win,or tried to save up the money for the ticket are SOL......which is not Good!!! In a perfect honest world, its Great,...But in this world,...forgetta-bout-it!!!

 

 

I agree. I think the best solution to this would just build more than 1000. Keep it limited but not FERRARI limited....nevermind, there are probably more Ferrari F430s than there would be KR. Heck, 1000 is ONLY double the amount of ENZO ferraris here in the US...or was that world wide? Still, 1000 sounds wrong.....its not a FORD thing. leave that to ferrari and lambo

[ColdwaterHotrod]

IMO - I think the (GT500KR's) will only be sold thru Ford dealers that have won the "Presidents Award".

I think that's about 750 dealers across america that have this award & the other 250+ KR's will be in a share of the nation lottery within Ford.

[mad103]

IMO - I think the (GT500KR's) will only be sold thru Ford dealers that have won the "Presidents Award".

I think that's about 750 dealers across america that have this award & the other 250+ KR's will be in a share of the nation lottery within Ford.

 

 

how can you find out which dealership has a pres awards? other than asking them and they BS you the YEA SURE WE GOT THAT TOO

[68fastback]

Better yet, only sell them to dealers who sold their GT500's at MSRP (like mine)

 

I like this appraoch best -- reward the dealers that respect long sanding customers -- that was the rationale on having President's Award dealers getting in on the prioroty allocation of the '500 to begin with... good thinking, Coldy.

 

On selling it thru SA via lottery: my understanding it that SA cannot sell any cars directly under their contract with Ford; only thru Ford dealers.

 

Actually, how many authorized (cert'd) GT500 dealers are there? Maybe somewhere around 400-500 max? Allocate one each to them and the remainder to any dealerswho sold their '500s at MSRP, and let that allocation cycle over those MSRP dealers as many times as the reminder permits! And any dealer who sells a KR at MSRP get's another allocation as long as units are still available.

 

Of course all of these ideas have intesects with the dealer Franchise Agreements ...and are not going to happen... but it's fun to imagine ;-)

[90GT]

All I know is that by the spring of 08 I will have either a GT500 or a GT500KR in my garage. :hyper:

[68fastback]

All I know is that by the spring of 08 I will have either a GT500 or a GT500KR in my garage. :hyper:

 

Either way, Della where? will never be the same ;-)

[LuckySnake]

In most cases, a GT500 with well thought out mods will smoke any new KR for far less money, same with the 40th. Not passing any negative towards anyone, just stating "business is business" and we can be very choosy about where our dollars are spent, and the mods that will make your car yours.

Now if you are planning to buy one to put in the wine cellar to hopefully ripen, the KR name could be of some value. Would I worry about buying a KR and keeping my GT500, absolutely if I were rich.

The KR hood is very cool.

These are just my opinions and probably wrong, except for the hood.

[90GT]

In most cases, a GT500 with well thought out mods will smoke any new KR for far less money, same with the 40th. Not passing any negative towards anyone, just stating "business is business" and we can be very choosy about where our dollars are spent, and the mods that will make your car yours.

Now if you are planning to buy one to put in the wine cellar to hopefully ripen, the KR name could be of some value. Would I worry about buying a KR and keeping my GT500, absolutely if I were rich.

The KR hood is very cool.

These are just my opinions and probably wrong, except for the hood.

 

 

 

You will be able to purchase the KR hood if that's all you want.

[68fastback]

In most cases, a GT500 with well thought out mods will smoke any new KR for far less money, same with the 40th. Not passing any negative towards anyone, just stating "business is business" and we can be very choosy about where our dollars are spent, and the mods that will make your car yours.

Now if you are planning to buy one to put in the wine cellar to hopefully ripen, the KR name could be of some value. Would I worry about buying a KR and keeping my GT500, absolutely if I were rich.

The KR hood is very cool.

These are just my opinions and probably wrong, except for the hood.

 

last sentence killed me... I think you're right-on, Blayne.

[HSURB]

I like the idea but I think the dealers would freak out over it. I've already been out inquiring about the car and the dealers in my area are already chomping at the bit over the ADM's they can get on this car.

 

What Ford should do is look at the dealers that they got complaints about with the GT500 and just not give them a KR.

 

 

Let the dealers freak out. It would be fun to watch them freak out for a while. The same way they freaked us all out over what they were willing to ask for GT500's. Simple message is sent legally to the dealers - abuse the ADM with a loyal customer base, and loose the privelege to sell exclusive vehicles to that loyal customer base.

 

How would they police it????? Not all dealers charged the high ADM's.

 

HSURB

[90GT]

Let the dealers freak out. It would be fun to watch them freak out for a while. The same way they freaked us all out over what they were willing to ask for GT500's. Simple message is sent legally to the dealers - abuse the ADM with a loyal customer base, and loose the privelege to sell exclusive vehicles to that loyal customer base.

 

How would they police it????? Not all dealers charged the high ADM's.

 

HSURB

 

 

Would be nice but Ford will never do it. They are loving all the hype the Shelby cars are creating.

[ShelbyDude]

IMO - I think the (GT500KR's) will only be sold thru Ford dealers that have won the "Presidents Award".

I think that's about 750 dealers across america that have this award & the other 250+ KR's will be in a share of the nation lottery within Ford.

 

 

There are only 416 Presidental Award Winners for 2006.

 

What is your dealer's name and State and I can tell you if they are one of them.

[90GT]

There are only 416 Presidental Award Winners for 2006.

 

What is your dealer's name and State and I can tell you if they are one of them.

 

 

For the most part I think the GT500KR will be out of reach for most people unless Ford/Shelby significantly ups the production numbers.

 

I'm still going to try and get one but I probably have as much chance as getting a date with Jessica Simpson.

 

 

What I hope the GT500KR does is reduce the ADM's on the GT500 but that will remain to be seen.

[ShelbyDude]

For the most part I think the GT500KR will be out of reach for most people unless Ford/Shelby significantly ups the production numbers.

 

I'm still going to try and get one but I probably have as much chance as getting a date with Jessica Simpson.

What I hope the GT500KR does is reduce the ADM's on the GT500 but that will remain to be seen.

 

 

If they only build a 1,000 GT500KR's then I can't see how that would have any impact on the GT500.

 

It could take 1,000 GT500 buyers out the market on that car, but I suspect a lot of those buyers have purchased one already and will still try to buy a KR.

 

On the other hand, with speculation that the ADM on the KR will be through the roof that alone could also cause an increase on the GT500.

 

Yeah, we got a KR....$150k and it is yours! Oh, that's to much? Then here is a GT500 for only half that price! $75k!

 

Or it could put several thousand of the GT500 buyers on hold while waiting to see if they can buy a KR causing sales on the GT500 to slow down enough to where the ADM comes down some.

 

But I think if anyone is forced to come down on the ADM it will be the dealers wanting the $25k - $30k over. The dealers selling in the $10k - $15k over range may be able to hold that.

 

We shall all know soon enough. There is only about 14 months left of total production on the GT500 if 08 is the last year for these.

 

I would also think that if Ford was going to build the GT500 in 09 then they would announce it. They sure as heck won't keep it a secret for the mere purpose of dealers being able to get their ADM on these! Ford is against that! They asked all dealers to NOT get carried away with adding big premiums to these cars. What happened? The exact opposite of what Ford asked them not to do!

 

In the end it doesn't matter what dealers "ask" for their cars. It all comes down to the consumers whether they pay it or not. Without buyers willing to pay dealers are forced to drop pricing just to get their vehicles sold. It is that simple! Dealers don't control the market. Consumers do. Without consumers buying for whatever prices the dealers "try" to get, dealers have no choice but to drop prices. Period!

[iastatefan]

Yes, but unlike most cars that start out with ADM's the GT500 is limited for two years only.

 

I thought there is an option for a third year. I keep seeing online "2 years only" and in print "will be built for 3 years." Knowing these forums generally are more up-to-date than the traditional publications, can I safely believe the former?

 

Also, look at what the Gt500's that were built in the 60's are bringing today.

 

I really can't believe (or at least I really hope not) there is a significant amount of people thinking "I'll pay $25,000 extra to put this car in a garage and hope the fickle collectible market stars align and I'll make a lot of money on it." Because if they invested the same money in an S&P500 index fund over those same 40 years on average they'd have around $400,000. The Shelby name alone guarantees nothing; it's not like anybody's snapping up Dodge Charger Shelbys (and no, I don't think a GT500's value will crater like that. The 2 cars are from different planets.)

 

Speaking of that particular vehicle, however; I was a junior in high school when that car came out and I thought --- man, I wish I could drive when Shelby was building muscle cars. When the Fast and the Furious came out, I thought ---- man, I can't relate to this version of performance cars.

 

The GT500 announcement (alongside the coming war with GM and DC) leaves me thinking --- man, perfect timing.

[crispy23c]

iastatefan,

There is an option for a 3rd year. And unless either Ford or Shelby get really unreasonable, I wouldn't even be able to fathom why either would not want to continue on with "the most successful new car ever" (Ford's words).

I strongly believe that a 3rd year is probably already in the mix, if not inked already. If I were Ford..or Shelby, I would NEVER prematurely announce 3rd year production plans. They would only be weakening the market for '08 if they announced it now.

[iastatefan]

We shall all know soon enough. There is only about 14 months left of total production on the GT500 if 08 is the last year for these.

 

I would also think that if Ford was going to build the GT500 in 09 then they would announce it.

 

Heh, you just answered my previous question. I thought your previous post indicated "2 years only" was a fact; sounds like there is still speculation on this one.

 

I don't think Ford is holding back on answering to help dealers keep ADMs up either. I would say it's only good business sense depending on this contractual "option" is all about. I would imagine there are monetary consequences of some kind related to any optional year, and both parties would have an interest playing it close to the vest.

 

That said, I'll be shocked if such an option wasn't exercised because there is incentive for both parties to continue for another MY. Like the ADMs, Ford and Shelby aren't gonna stop production to keep some future collectible value high. The logical reason to stop a third year would be "we can't move these '08 GT500s."

 

In the end it doesn't matter what dealers "ask" for their cars. It all comes down to the consumers whether they pay it or not. Without buyers willing to pay dealers are forced to drop pricing just to get their vehicles sold. It is that simple! Dealers don't control the market. Consumers do. Without consumers buying for whatever prices the dealers "try" to get, dealers have no choice but to drop prices. Period!

 

I agree completely, but I would add with the small number of these cars, the ADMs would likely remain high as demand fell for some time more than normal. And I say that due to the number of times I've read "my dealer said if I wouldn't pay $xxK ADM he'd just sell it to another dealer." If all of the dealers saying that are truthful, then falling demand from actual customers could be masked for some period of time. Of course, if nothing happened during this period to change perception (Ford announces no '09, Ford announces the Boss 429, whatever) ADMs would melt away despite dealers buying up excess inventory (somebody's gonna end up with cars sitting on the lot.)

 

Agreed that only time will tell how this all plays out. It's a fun horse race, pun intended.

 

Edit: obviously, Ford announcing a Boss 429 (the one I'm imagining) would accelerate ADMs drops; I was trying to show examples of events that would increase perceived scarcity.

[iastatefan]

iastatefan,

There is an option for a 3rd year. And unless either Ford or Shelby get really unreasonable, I wouldn't even be able to fathom why either would not want to continue on with "the most successful new car ever" (Ford's words).

I strongly believe that a 3rd year is probably already in the mix, if not inked already. If I were Ford..or Shelby, I would NEVER prematurely announce 3rd year production plans. They would only be weakening the market for '08 if they announced it now.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I agree with you; I just don't see any motive for either to stop a third year.

[68KR07Shelby]

maybe they should let 1968 KR owners have first option to buy

 

NOW your talking! I am in on this one since I do own one. Think about it; no more unfair than any other way of distributing them.

[68fastback]

iastatefan,

There is an option for a 3rd year. And unless either Ford or Shelby get really unreasonable, I wouldn't even be able to fathom why either would not want to continue on with "the most successful new car ever" (Ford's words).

I strongly believe that a 3rd year is probably already in the mix, if not inked already. If I were Ford..or Shelby, I would NEVER prematurely announce 3rd year production plans. They would only be weakening the market for '08 if they announced it now.

 

I think you're right Chris... I can't conceive they'd have inked a contract without an option-to-extend clause and there would appear to be no reason for either party to want out.

 

---

 

To play it out futher... even if there was a reason <shudder to think of an historical redux here>, Ford would just replace those 6 letters and keep making the car -- but the odds of that happening are slim-to-none, imo, because both parties have mutual benefits to extend, and that seems unlikely to change anytime soon.

 

Even if the initial contract was for more years, Ford would not pre-announce MY'09 this far in advance -- just not good business. In fact, with Cam & Chal coming, I'd expect advance announcement horizons to compress (except when strategically advantageous to manipulate market expectations <lol> ...e.g. Camaro vert). Ford is in the catbird seat and will not give that up that advantage with unnecesarily long pre-views, imo.

 

If I was forced to bet on continued availability of a package essentially the same as the GT500 (regardless of badging), I'd have to give it at least 5:1 odds for MY'09, and still better than even all the way out thru the H/Boss picking up the heavy lifting. As long as Ford is dealing from the mod deck (and they don't have much choice), continued production of a s/c'd 5.4 mod in a Mustang of some stripe is virtually assured, imo, notwithstanding the "Congress gone insane" scenario.

 

Anyone see any other viable logic that satisfies all the constraints and business drivers?

 

-Dan

[nachtkriechen]

So what do you all think Carol Shelby's "Super Mustang" will be? Based upon early videos of Carol Shelby making comments on the engine and it's capabilities, I'm thinking they (Ford & Shelby) might be shooting for 1,000 HP, or darn close to it.

 

 

 

- Josh

[68fastback]

So what do you all think Carol Shelby's "Super Mustang" will be? Based upon early videos of Carol Shelby making comments on the engine and it's capabilities, I'm thinking they (Ford & Shelby) might be shooting for 1,000 HP, or darn close to it.

- Josh

 

Hey, Josh!

 

Which vid did you mean ...do you have a link by any chance?

 

Btw, just noticed ...WELCOME to SU!!!

 

-Dan

[ShelbyDude]

""Heh, you just answered my previous question. I thought your previous post indicated "2 years only" was a fact; sounds like there is still speculation on this one.""

 

 

That is factual information as far as what I was told by Ford and SVT. They have both said they will not be building the GT500 for 09 and that it was for two years only. The last time I was told this was Feb 07.

 

The first time I heard anything about an option for a 3rd year was from this site which supposedly came from Amy at CAI.

 

Whether there is an option or not or what the terms and details pertain to any such option I wouldn't know. For all I know it could just be an option to build SOMETHING for a 3rd year that is related in some way with Shelby. Maybe it could mean building the GT350 where it is built by Ford like the GT500 was without having them sent to CAI for any modifications. Maybe it could relate to a 3rd year to build more GT500's. Or something entiely different. Who knows??? All I do know is that Ford keeps saying they are NOT building the GT500 for 09. The enrollment form the dealers had to fill out specifically state 07 and 08 only and nothing pertaining to a possible 09.

 

So until Ford makes any official announcement on this no one knows and everything is pure speculation on it.

 

I would also think if the ADM's went away during the 08 production then Ford would definitely not build these for 09. Not because dealers couldn't get premiums, but simply because the desire and demand will have fallen off to the point where GT500's would just be sitting on lots like all the V6 and GT mustangs are now.

 

Over produce something and you kill it! Why would they want to do that and hurt future years for future GT500's after they change body styles?

 

BTW, if they did build this in 09 then it would be a new body style because they are suppose to be redesigning the mustang again for 09. So it wouldn't be the same body style as the 07 and 08. So maybe that will give them a reason to build it for 09 since it would look different. Who knows.

[2008 Shelby]

I like the idea but I think the dealers would freak out over it. I've already been out inquiring about the car and the dealers in my area are already chomping at the bit over the ADM's they can get on this car.

 

What Ford should do is look at the dealers that they got complaints about with the GT500 and just not give them a KR.

 

Those poor poor dealers.

[68fastback]

The first time I heard anything about an option for a 3rd year was from this site which supposedly came from Amy at CAI.

 

I first heard that last June from a late-April/ealy-May session where Ford let the car mags have a brief drive of the pre-production units (with traction contol locked-on <lol>). Three mags, if I recall, reported Ford told them three years on the GT500, even tho Ford had only given production estimates for two years. Dunno -- probably doesn't matter what they said back then anyway <lol> just wanted to mention when I firsd heard it.

 

---

 

Still I can't believe they'd drop the 5.4 S/C motor... it's the only big-HP motor Ford has until the truck H/Boss makes the transition to hi-po Mustang somewhere out around '11, depending on which rumors your believe. Maybe the 5.4 S/C will go in a Mach in '09 (since '08 SEs sound like the KR and Bullitt at a minimum)...

 

ShelbyDude, have you heard anything on an H/Boss Mustang date or anything on an alloy H/Boss block or when Cleveland plant#1 will be fully renovated? Just seems like '11 is painfully long to wait with Camaro & Chal coming and I find it so hard to believe ford would 'ignore' the 40th anniversary of Boss 302.

 

I'm also wondering if Shelby's engine builder in Gardena CA could not help with a very special (if low volume) Shelby GT500__ using their fully re-engineered alloy 4-bolt 427-526cid siamesed cylinder side-oiler FE motors they build for the CS Cobras, except I can't see them carrying a Ford warranty. The more I think about it the more I think the hi-po H/Boss is quietly moving forward or there's something else afoot we are blind to...dunno.

 

Any insight?

[mtl1977]

blah blah blah.

[ShelbyDude]

I first heard that last June from a late-April/ealy-May session where Ford let the car mags have a brief drive of the pre-production units (with traction contol locked-on <lol>). Three mags, if I recall, reported Ford told them three years on the GT500, even tho Ford had only given production estimates for two years. Dunno -- probably doesn't matter what they said back then anyway <lol> just wanted to mention when I firsd heard it.

 

---

 

Still I can't believe they'd drop the 5.4 S/C motor... it's the only big-HP motor Ford has until the truck H/Boss makes the transition to hi-po Mustang somewhere out around '11, depending on which rumors your believe. Maybe the 5.4 S/C will go in a Mach in '09 (since '08 SEs sound like the KR and Bullitt at a minimum)...

 

ShelbyDude, have you heard anything on an H/Boss Mustang date or anything on an alloy H/Boss block or when Cleveland plant#1 will be fully renovated? Just seems like '11 is painfully long to wait with Camaro & Chal coming and I find it so hard to believe ford would 'ignore' the 40th anniversary of Boss 302.

 

I'm also wondering if Shelby's engine builder in Gardena CA could not help with a very special (if low volume) Shelby GT500__ using their fully re-engineered alloy 4-bolt 427-526cid siamesed cylinder side-oiler FE motors they build for the CS Cobras, except I can't see them carrying a Ford warranty. The more I think about it the more I think the hi-po H/Boss is quietly moving forward or there's something else afoot we are blind to...dunno.

 

Any insight?

 

 

I remember at the Chicago auto show in 06 Ford told the public the Shelby GT500 would be for two years only with 8k cars each year. Later Ford increased that number to approx. 9k cars each year. I have never heard Ford say anything about a 3rd year. But that doesn't mean anything. They changed the production up to more units and they could just as easily change it by adding another year but so far they have never said anything about it.

 

I was told the Boss is coming out for 08. But then I heard something about 09. Now rumors are 10 or 11.

 

What motor or anything I have not heard about.

[ShelbyDude]

iastatefan,

There is an option for a 3rd year. And unless either Ford or Shelby get really unreasonable, I wouldn't even be able to fathom why either would not want to continue on with "the most successful new car ever" (Ford's words).

I strongly believe that a 3rd year is probably already in the mix, if not inked already. If I were Ford..or Shelby, I would NEVER prematurely announce 3rd year production plans. They would only be weakening the market for '08 if they announced it now.

 

"the most successful new car ever" (Ford's words)."

 

Not quite. Ford didn't say this was the most successful new car ever. (actually, I think the Taurus probably was)

 

They said ONE of the most successful vehicle programs in the 14-YEAR HISTORY OF FORD SPECIAL VEHICLE TEAM (SVT)....

 

So this only relates to the SVT vehicles built by Ford. Not their other vehicles.

 

And of course it should be their most successful. They are building 18k - 19k over two years and have probably already built 7k - 8k of them for 06 to date and less than 600 are out there meaning all the others have sold already.

 

How many SVT vehicles has Ford built over the 14 years of SVT? How many of any one given model did they build in a year over the past 14 years? It would appear to me that the GT500 beats them all by a landslide based on the number they built and the total they are going to build.

 

Here are Ford's words:

 

The 2007 Shelby GT500 has been one of the most successful vehicle programs in the 14-year history of Ford Special Vehicle Team (SVT) and that success has opened the door for more performance collaborations with Shelby Automobiles and Ford Racing.

[ShelbyDude]

iastatefan,

There is an option for a 3rd year. And unless either Ford or Shelby get really unreasonable, I wouldn't even be able to fathom why either would not want to continue on with "the most successful new car ever" (Ford's words).

I strongly believe that a 3rd year is probably already in the mix, if not inked already. If I were Ford..or Shelby, I would NEVER prematurely announce 3rd year production plans. They would only be weakening the market for '08 if they announced it now.

 

 

""They would only be weakening the market for '08 if they announced it now."""

 

How would that weaken the 08 market?

 

Are you saying if they build it in 09 that there won't be enough buyers for this car?

 

The only thing I think that would weaken anything if they announced it would be the big ADM dealers are asking for.

 

I can't imagine how it would weaken Ford's market for the 08 unless Ford feels it will turn buyers away altogether regardless of price because buyers will lose interest and desireability for this car due to the mass numbers they would be building.

 

So how exactly would it otherwise weaken the 08 market?

[ColdwaterHotrod]

"the most successful new car ever" (Ford's words)."

 

Not quite. Ford didn't say this was the most successful new car ever. (actually, I think the Taurus probably was)

 

They said ONE of the most successful vehicle programs in the 14-YEAR HISTORY OF FORD SPECIAL VEHICLE TEAM (SVT)....

 

So this only relates to the SVT vehicles built by Ford. Not their other vehicles.

 

And of course it should be their most successful. They are building 18k - 19k over two years and have probably already built 7k - 8k of them for 06 to date and less than 600 are out there meaning all the others have sold already.

 

How many SVT vehicles has Ford built over the 14 years of SVT? How many of any one given model did they build in a year over the past 14 years? It would appear to me that the GT500 beats them all by a landslide based on the number they built and the total they are going to build.

 

Here are Ford's words:

 

The 2007 Shelby GT500 has been one of the most successful vehicle programs in the 14-year history of Ford Special Vehicle Team (SVT) and that success has opened the door for more performance collaborations with Shelby Automobiles and Ford Racing.

Check again.........................

 

Cobra Production

Model Year Units Sold

2004 Cobra Total: 5,664

2003 Cobra Total: 13,476

2002 Cobra* Total: 100 (all to Australia)

2001 Cobra Total: 7,251

2000 Cobra R Total: 300

1999 Cobra Total: 8,095

1998 Cobra Total: 8,654

1997 Cobra Total: 10,049

1996 Cobra Total: 10,005

1995 Cobra Total: 5,258

1994 Cobra Total: 6,009

1993 Cobra Total: 5,100

 

*2002 Cobra NOTE: Officially, there were no 2002 Cobras produced in the US, but Ford's sales data shows 100 4-valve Cobras shipped to Australia as a special export batch in early '02. SVT has stated that they do not count these numbers in their totals but they were labeled as 2002 Models from Ford. These cars were exactly the same as the '01's except were made especially for Australia's standards (right hand drive, extra lights, etc.).