2010KonaBlueGT Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Well now your talking about COP covers. Whats the danger with that and how do I avoid it? Because I really want the SS hood, I just don't want anything to happen since I DD my car rain or shine. The "Coil Over Plug" (COP) covers have a groove in them that the rubber gasket fits within. There are many documented cases of the gasket not being in the groove right and allowing water into the well that the spark plug sits in and causing all kinds of havoc with the system. Easy enough to remedy. Pull your COP covers and see if your gasket is in the groove AND not "squished" off to one side so it seals well. Also check the grommets where the primary coil wire loom goes under the COP to be sure it's sealed. A bit of silicone die-electric grease wouldn't hurt (I use it on my plug connectors too). Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Well now your talking about COP covers. Whats the danger with that and how do I avoid it? Because I really want the SS hood, I just don't want anything to happen since I DD my car rain or shine. The COP covers have a seal and part of the sealing is also done with the wire harness that enters at the rear. If these covers are removed, plug changes, etc. and the seal (and wire harness grommet) are not properly installed water will get under the COP cover and lay in the low areas under that cover including spark plug hole areas. This is some of the unprotected/unpainted aluminum that I mentioned which will quickly oxidize. I would not worry about it, there are many people who have these hoods. I was just mentioning my observation when I looked through my extractors. I saw my KB, the TB, the valve covers, STB, etc. all directly below the extractors. If I can see those items, water will get there. I have not driven in the rain, I guessed that if air comes through the radiator when driving that water would also? Apparently I am wrong, Phill says his engine stays dry. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2010KonaBlueGT Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 I have not driven in the rain, I guessed that if air comes through the radiator when driving that water would also? Apparently I am wrong, Phill says his engine stays dry. Uhhhhhh....I think you might have me confused with someone else. I don't drive mine in the rain either. I did get caught in the rain ONCE when I went up to Denver for a show but to be more than honest with you, I didn't look under the hood when I finally got home. I was more concerned with the mess all over and under the car than I was with the engine bay. My engine does get a little wet when I use my regular touch-less (commercial) car wash down the road but not too terrible wet. It's enough that I always open my hood and wipe off the aluminum pieces and then take the opportunity to use the damp microfiber cloth to wipe down the areas under my hood that get dirty (the seal areas, strut towers, radiator cover, underside of the hood, etc.). Logic tells me that the vents on a Super Snake hood are to allow hot air OUT from under the hood (not IN) so I would think that under driving conditions with air movement, the air would be coming up and out of the vents thereby blowing the rain OUT of the vent rather than sucking it in. Am I correct in that line of thinking (I thought they were "heat EXTRACTORS", not just vents)? Also, with the louvers being "canted" towards the rear I would assume that the air passing over them will blow the rain drops over them, back towards the windshield cowl area and therefor not allowing rain into the vents/extractors that way either. When you stop, all bets are off. Obviously the rain drops can get in when you're stopped but that's got to be MINISCULE relative to what a car wash is going to get in there. When I was a kid my mom & step-dad had a old MG TD that the top was trashed on so we always left it off of the car. There is no rear seat on a TD/TC but there is a area behind the seats where a kid can sit so that was my seat. When we drove in the rain, the windshield would direct the rain over the top of us and we stayed dry...until we had to stop at a light! I think the hood vents would give you the same protection or treatment. Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Uhhhhhh....I think you might have me confused with someone else. I don't drive mine in the rain either. I did get caught in the rain ONCE when I went up to Denver for a show but to be more than honest with you, I didn't look under the hood when I finally got home. I was more concerned with the mess all over and under the car than I was with the engine bay. My engine does get a little wet when I use my regular touch-less (commercial) car wash down the road but not too terrible wet. It's enough that I always open my hood and wipe off the aluminum pieces and then take the opportunity to use the damp microfiber cloth to wipe down the areas under my hood that get dirty (the seal areas, strut towers, radiator cover, underside of the hood, etc.). Logic tells me that the vents on a Super Snake hood are to allow hot air OUT from under the hood (not IN) so I would think that under driving conditions with air movement, the air would be coming up and out of the vents thereby blowing the rain OUT of the vent rather than sucking it in. Am I correct in that line of thinking (I thought they were "heat EXTRACTORS", not just vents)? Also, with the louvers being "canted" towards the rear I would assume that the air passing over them will blow the rain drops over them, back towards the windshield cowl area and therefor not allowing rain into the vents/extractors that way either. When you stop, all bets are off. Obviously the rain drops can get in when you're stopped but that's got to be MINISCULE relative to what a car wash is going to get in there. When I was a kid my mom & step-dad had a old MG TD that the top was trashed on so we always left it off of the car. There is no rear seat on a TD/TC but there is a area behind the seats where a kid can sit so that was my seat. When we drove in the rain, the windshield would direct the rain over the top of us and we stayed dry...until we had to stop at a light! I think the hood vents would give you the same protection or treatment. Phill Yes Phill, my mistake. it was SVT13's reply in post #56 that I was replying to. He doesn't get a wet engine compartment when driving in the rain...... Yes on your heat extractor overview. What you have said above is exactly what I said quite a ways back in this thread. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Uhhhhhh....I think you might have me confused with someone else. I don't drive mine in the rain either. I did get caught in the rain ONCE when I went up to Denver for a show but to be more than honest with you, I didn't look under the hood when I finally got home. I was more concerned with the mess all over and under the car than I was with the engine bay. My engine does get a little wet when I use my regular touch-less (commercial) car wash down the road but not too terrible wet. It's enough that I always open my hood and wipe off the aluminum pieces and then take the opportunity to use the damp microfiber cloth to wipe down the areas under my hood that get dirty (the seal areas, strut towers, radiator cover, underside of the hood, etc.). Logic tells me that the vents on a Super Snake hood are to allow hot air OUT from under the hood (not IN) so I would think that under driving conditions with air movement, the air would be coming up and out of the vents thereby blowing the rain OUT of the vent rather than sucking it in. Am I correct in that line of thinking (I thought they were "heat EXTRACTORS", not just vents)? Also, with the louvers being "canted" towards the rear I would assume that the air passing over them will blow the rain drops over them, back towards the windshield cowl area and therefor not allowing rain into the vents/extractors that way either. When you stop, all bets are off. Obviously the rain drops can get in when you're stopped but that's got to be MINISCULE relative to what a car wash is going to get in there. When I was a kid my mom & step-dad had a old MG TD that the top was trashed on so we always left it off of the car. There is no rear seat on a TD/TC but there is a area behind the seats where a kid can sit so that was my seat. When we drove in the rain, the windshield would direct the rain over the top of us and we stayed dry...until we had to stop at a light! I think the hood vents would give you the same protection or treatment. Phill Ok so then thats fine. But then now you brought up a point I actually didn't think about. Whats going to happen when I was my car???? lol. Since I like to sheet the car with the hose to get as much water off of it before I air dry it wouldn't all that water just pour into the vents? I need someone who actually drives their car in the rain and washes it with water to be in this thread haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Ok so then thats fine. But then now you brought up a point I actually didn't think about. Whats going to happen when I was my car???? lol. Since I like to sheet the car with the hose to get as much water off of it before I air dry it wouldn't all that water just pour into the vents? I need someone who actually drives their car in the rain and washes it with water to be in this thread haha. Good lord...........you are going to drive everybody on this forum nuts. I'd say if your momma breast fed you as an infant when she let you suckle on the right one, you weren't happy because you wanted the left one. When she fed you from the left one, you wanted the right one. I know you want answers about the mods I did to my car and I'd be happy answering them. But what I consider acceptable in noise, vibration and harmonics and what you consider acceptable are two different things. Everybody's perspective will be different than yours. I grew up with muscle cars that are very rude and crude when compared to the modern muscle cars of today. What I put up with to have the performance I want may not be acceptable to you, because I compare it to the stuff from the late 1960's. Don't beat a subject to death, because you are going to get people to the point of not wanting to answer your questions. I look at your questions and don't want to answer them, because I know my perspective of what I consider acceptable is totally different than yours. What would bother me is to answer your questions and have you follow my advise, only to hear you complain later about how the same modification to you isn't acceptable.........so silence on my part is my only safe answer to you. I thought I gave you a great way to measure the noise level increase from the Barton shifter by listing the fan speed on the air conditioner as a reference point, but you still need more of an answer than this. My hearing is as good as yours, get in the car while driving it, set the fan speed manually to the level I indicated and see if this is acceptable to you. Don't ask more questions. You listen to another poster in a different forum that told you it was a piece of junk, because of the NVH. His perspective and mine differ greatly. Everything in a modern engine compartment can sustain getting wet. Take the car to a detail shop and see how fast they pressure wash under the hood and start the car without any problems afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Good lord...........you are going to drive everybody on this forum nuts. I'd say if your momma breast fed you as an infant when she let you suckle on the right one, you weren't happy because you wanted the left one. When she fed you from the left one, you wanted the right one. I know you want answers about the mods I did to my car and I'd be happy answering them. But what I consider acceptable in noise, vibration and harmonics and what you consider acceptable are two different things. Everybody's perspective will be different than yours. I grew up with muscle cars that are very rude and crude when compared to the modern muscle cars of today. What I put up with to have the performance I want may not be acceptable to you, because I compare it to the stuff from the late 1960's. Don't beat a subject to death, because you are going to get people to the point of not wanting to answer your questions. I look at your questions and don't want to answer them, because I know my perspective of what I consider acceptable is totally different than yours. What would bother me is to answer your questions and have you follow my advise, only to hear you complain later about how the same modification to you isn't acceptable.........so silence on my part is my only safe answer to you. I thought I gave you a great way to measure the noise level increase from the Barton shifter by listing the fan speed on the air conditioner as a reference point, but you still need more of an answer than this. My hearing is as good as yours, get in the car while driving it, set the fan speed manually to the level I indicated and see if this is acceptable to you. Don't ask more questions. You listen to another poster in a different forum that told you it was a piece of junk, because of the NVH. His perspective and mine differ greatly. Everything in a modern engine compartment can sustain getting wet. Take the car to a detail shop and see how fast they pressure wash under the hood and start the car without any problems afterwards. I don't understand how this has anything to do with me worrying about water getting into my engine compartment and possibly damaging things? The 2 people here who are giving me a perspective don't drive their car in the rain. Hence why I said we need someone with a super snake hood or super snake style hood that drives in the rain and washes their car to say "Hey I've driven with this hood for such and such time and no problems". Something like that would answer it for me instead of speculation. Speculation is just that speculation. We won't know till someone actually tries it. But if you are saying then it's ok for the engine to get wet then ok. But Phill and Robert are saying their might be issues with the COP As far as your shifter once you answered it that was fine. You did give me a very good way to measure the noise. I heard what I needed to know and when the time comes I'm going to go with the MGW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 I don't understand how this has anything to do with me worrying about water getting into my engine compartment and possibly damaging things? The 2 people here who are giving me a perspective don't drive their car in the rain. Hence why I said we need someone with a super snake hood or super snake style hood that drives in the rain and washes their car to say "Hey I've driven with this hood for such and such time and no problems". Something like that would answer it for me instead of speculation. Speculation is just that speculation. We won't know till someone actually tries it. But if you are saying then it's ok for the engine to get wet then ok. But Phill and Robert are saying their might be issues with the COP As far as your shifter once you answered it that was fine. You did give me a very good way to measure the noise. I heard what I needed to know and when the time comes I'm going to go with the MGW. What my post was about is you beating the same question to death..........ask the same question a hundred times of a hundred different people and you'll get a hundred different answers. Everybody has a different opinion and perspective. You need to make your own assumptions and judgements after talking with only a few people. Instead of continuing to ask the rest of the people and get conflicting answers. The reason I say this is you'll never come to a conclusive answer for yourself by asking the hundred different people. Every modification has its good and bad points, you have to decide if the good out weigh the bad in your own mind to be happy and not rely on others to tell you their perspective. If you really would like to know what Ford the automobile manufacturer's opinion is go look under the hood of any 2010 to 2012 Ford F150 SVT Raptor. The heat extractors in that hood are functional also By the way if you think the Barton shifter has to much NVH then you may want to seriously reconsider installing the Shelby/MM Caster/Camber plates you have listed as a future mod in your signature. Again you've asked someones opinion of this modification and their perspective is different then yours. I installed these plates on my car and haven't driven it yet, but my past experience with camber plate modifications on other cars tells me the NVH level will increase above you threshold levels of tolerance for NVH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 What my post was about is you beating the same question to death..........ask the same question a hundred times of a hundred different people and you'll get a hundred different answers. Everybody has a different opinion and perspective. You need to make your own assumptions and judgements after talking with only a few people. Instead of continuing to ask the rest of the people and get conflicting answers. The reason I say this is you'll never come to a conclusive answer for yourself by asking the hundred different people. Every modification has its good and bad points, you have to decide if the good out weigh the bad in your own mind to be happy and not rely on others to tell you their perspective. If you really would like to know what Ford the automobile manufacturer's opinion is go look under the hood of any 2010 to 2012 Ford F150 SVT Raptor. The heat extractors in that hood are functional also By the way if you think the Barton shifter has to much NVH then you may want to seriously reconsider installing the Shelby/MM Caster/Camber plates you have listed as a future mod in your signature. Again you've asked someones opinion of this modification and their perspective is different then yours. I installed these plates on my car and haven't driven it yet, but my past experience with camber plate modifications on other cars tells me the NVH level will increase above you threshold levels of tolerance for NVH. My friends 01 cobra I drove in had them and they didn't make noise. But yes I do have to change that in my sig since I was told they are not needed with FRPP springs I am going to get camber bolts. I may not even need those either though apparently. I've never seen a raptor so if that hood has heat extractors like the SS hood thats fine. You are right about the 100 conflicting answers thing. I was just thinking maybe at some point I'd get more answers leaning one way more than another rather than 50/50 which seems to be what actually happens. But then my question to you about the raptor thing is if the engine is so bullet proof, why when ford made the KR hood they put all that effort in redirecting water from the heat extractors and ram air? There must have been a reason for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 My friends 01 cobra I drove in had them and they didn't make noise. But yes I do have to change that in my sig since I was told they are not needed with FRPP springs I am going to get camber bolts. I may not even need those either though apparently. I've never seen a raptor so if that hood has heat extractors like the SS hood thats fine. You are right about the 100 conflicting answers thing. I was just thinking maybe at some point I'd get more answers leaning one way more than another rather than 50/50 which seems to be what actually happens. But then my question to you about the raptor thing is if the engine is so bullet proof, why when ford made the KR hood they put all that effort in redirecting water from the heat extractors and ram air? There must have been a reason for that. You need to rethink the camber bolts. Ford has a TSB out on the bolts clamping the strut housing to the spindle and the consequences of improperly torques bolts. The aftermarket camber bolts cannot be torqued to the value Ford is specifying for proper clamping forces between the two parts. Do yourself a favor, buy the Super Snake hood and save some money by not purchasing the heat extractor vents. Have the body shop that is going to install the hood fiberglass the openings for the heat extractors shut while doing the prep work for paint............then you'll never have to worry about water intrusion into the engine compartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 You need to rethink the camber bolts. Ford has a TSB out on the bolts clamping the strut housing to the spindle and the consequences of improperly torques bolts. The aftermarket camber bolts cannot be torqued to the value Ford is specifying for proper clamping forces between the two parts. Do yourself a favor, buy the Super Snake hood and save some money by not purchasing the heat extractor vents. Have the body shop that is going to install the hood fiberglass the openings for the heat extractors shut while doing the prep work for paint............then you'll never have to worry about water intrusion into the engine compartment. That is a retarded idea no offense. I like functionality. But anyways I will find my answer for that later. Now you got me interested in this camber bolt thing. If there is a TSB out on this stuff why is everyone who has lowered their cars used the bolts and been fine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 That is a retarded idea no offense. I like functionality. But anyways I will find my answer for that later. Now you got me interested in this camber bolt thing. If there is a TSB out on this stuff why is everyone who has lowered their cars used the bolts and been fine? Ask your Ford dealer about it in regards to the earlier Mustang S197 chassis. Google is your friend, but I believe I saw it on the SVT Performance forum, including pictures of what happens when the bolts aren't torqued correctly to factory specifications Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 That is a retarded idea no offense. I like functionality. But anyways I will find my answer for that later. Now you got me interested in this camber bolt thing. If there is a TSB out on this stuff why is everyone who has lowered their cars used the bolts and been fine? This site won't let me post a link to the other forum. Do a search on SVT Performance for BMR camber bolt failure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 This site won't let me post a link to the other forum. Do a search on SVT Performance for BMR camber bolt failure Yes I did the search and I saw. That was not a failure with the bolts in general. That specific bolt had a problem I believe. But its ok I talked with FRPP they said with the FRPP springs I don't even need them. So it's all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Yes I did the search and I saw. That was not a failure with the bolts in general. That specific bolt had a problem I believe. But its ok I talked with FRPP they said with the FRPP springs I don't even need them. So it's all good. See this is why you annoy people with your posts. 1) you didn't read the complete thread 2) you didn't look at all the photos, otherwise you would have seen the broken spindle and understood that it didn't break because of the original posters comments about his camber bolt failure 3) you would have understood why I made the earlier comments about not using a camber bolt and the consequences of not having the specified torque on these bolts clamping the strut to the spindle 4) you changed your mind again and you wonder why some give you a hard time on here. I'll try to refrain from answering your questions in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 See this is why you annoy people with your posts. 1) you didn't read the complete thread 2) you didn't look at all the photos, otherwise you would have seen the broken spindle and understood that it didn't break because of the original posters comments about his camber bolt failure 3) you would have understood why I made the earlier comments about not using a camber bolt and the consequences of not having the specified torque on these bolts clamping the strut to the spindle 4) you changed your mind again and you wonder why some give you a hard time on here. I'll try to refrain from answering your questions in the future Yes you are right. My mistake. But anyways my mind is set now. I was going to get camber bolts incase I needed them. First I was told I would need cc plates, then camber bolts, now from people who have done it already I don't need either. So great news for me I save money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2010KonaBlueGT Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Yes you are right. My mistake. But anyways my mind is set now. I was going to get camber bolts incase I needed them. First I was told I would need cc plates, then camber bolts, now from people who have done it already I don't need either. So great news for me I save money. MOST people who have lowered their cars with the FRPP springs (~1.25" - 1.5") didn't need any camber adjustments. I've seen maybe 2 that did so "Your Mileage May Vary" (YMMV) may apply here. I have the Caster/Camber plates on mine and they're a major pain in the ass, as far as Do It Youself-ers (DIY) are concerned. If I hadn't spent so much on them, I'd take the C/C plates out and put the high durometer top spring plates in their place. BUT...I do have option of adjustablity if I decide to track my car and add/remove camber to the front tires with the C/C plates. You *probably* won't need them but I'd advise you to have your front end checked to be sure. Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 MOST people who have lowered their cars with the FRPP springs (~1.25" - 1.5") didn't need any camber adjustments. I've seen maybe 2 that did so "Your Mileage May Vary" (YMMV) may apply here. I have the Caster/Camber plates on mine and they're a major pain in the ass, as far as Do It Youself-ers (DIY) are concerned. If I hadn't spent so much on them, I'd take the C/C plates out and put the high durometer top spring plates in their place. BUT...I do have option of adjustablity if I decide to track my car and add/remove camber to the front tires with the C/C plates. You *probably* won't need them but I'd advise you to have your front end checked to be sure. Phill Alright Phill I will thanks for the heads up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2010KonaBlueGT Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Alright Phill I will thanks for the heads up. Sorry, was in a hurry and made that a little vague. I'd advise you to have your front end ALIGNMENT checked after you lower it, just to be sure it's within spec and doesn't need plates or bolts. And although a LOT of people have used the bolts without problems, I personally, would not. Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Sorry, was in a hurry and made that a little vague. I'd advise you to have your front end ALIGNMENT checked after you lower it, just to be sure it's within spec and doesn't need plates or bolts. And although a LOT of people have used the bolts without problems, I personally, would not. Phill Yea after they lower it I will have them see if they can align it properly without using anything else. If I really need c/c plates I'll get them. But so far nobody has needed them but we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dthamiltonhpmd Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 So just for clarity, does Shelby recommend drilling the 4 holes in the new fiberglass super snake hoods for the model year 2007? Also, in one of the first threads on this subject, the video of the underside of the super snake hood showing the vent holes also showed a "heat blanket" at the underside of the hood, does Shelby sell this blanket or material? Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 So just for clarity, does Shelby recommend drilling the 4 holes in the new fiberglass super snake hoods for the model year 2007? Also, in one of the first threads on this subject, the video of the underside of the super snake hood showing the vent holes also showed a "heat blanket" at the underside of the hood, does Shelby sell this blanket or material? Don The holes were "owner added" as far as I know and was not something that is encouraged or discouraged by Shelby. I think there is a dark coating applied to the under side of the later Super Snake hoods, for heat protection. I think it is sprayed on? R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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