J.Gutwein Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 I looking to get a little information about selling prices for 2008-2009 KR Mustangs. I have been looking online (ebaymotors ect.) and have found some prices but was looking for some insight from people who know a little more about this than me. I am doing this for a good customer of ours. The KR was purchased new from us and serviced by us. Our customer has health issues and is unable to drive a manual anymore and would prefer someone else to enjoy the car. It is Vista Blue with Silver Stripes and has approx. 2400 miles on it. We have also made performance modifications to the vehicle, this is where I believe it will get sticky. We have put in an adjustable suspension, new rear tires (DOT legal drag radials essentially) and an upgraded supercharger from Evolution Performance. I am working on getting the copies of the invoices from Evolution Performance as well as pictures of the car. The owner takes good care of the vehicle but it has been run some. I want this to be a full disclosure sale this is how we do business and I how I feel it should be done. The performance upgrades total about $12K, I know you never recoup anywhere close to what you put in with performance parts usually. I was more concerned with would the additional money from the performance upgrades cover the price decrease from modifying the KR from its original state. I know that most people look for these as investment pieces and want to keep them as close to original as possible, but is there a market for modified KRs? The owner had the vehicle dynoed and it puts about 680hp to the ground. I am looking for any suggestions on pricing and interested parties. The customer has an idea of what he wants for it, and so do I, we are probably going with the later haha. If you have any questions please email me at jonathan@gutweinmtr.com or just leave a post. Thank you in advance, Jon Gutwein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC#0471 Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 So what do you think its worth Jon? Are the original parts included? Used Drag cars are usually worth less than original no matter what the mods cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagledriver Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 If you returned the vehicle to stock : original OEM tires,SC, intake and ANYTHING else that was modified and it was EXACTLY as it was when delivered new with all of the original documentation than you should see around 50-52K. Of course you'd then need to sell the mods seperately and that is more of a gray area. If you wanted to sell the car as is and had EVERYTHING that was with the car when new I'd think maybe 48K-50K since you'd really limit the buyers who would want it. An 09 VB is the rarest color but it's be tampered with and will never be looked at as a true original survivor . But hey we will all be long gone before they fetch the BJ prices of $$$$$$. My estimate would be 48K to 52K depending on how you want to market it. There are plenty of never titled new ones that can be had for around 50K so unless an 09VB was a must have than it's just another modded Shelby... Good luck either way ! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhead09 Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 shoot please show me where these untitled ones are if you know please PM me because thats exactly what im looking for when i get back from afghanistan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terumi71 Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Jon, Sorry to hear about your clients health issues. Many people are struggling in this economy and are having to sell and we all get an uneasy feeling as these cars come up for resale. Health issues are worse and often tie into a poor economy as people are then faced with paying healthcare bills. Emotionally, we all put so much thought and care into these cars. We really love them, as I've found all car people really love their cars, no matter what they are. To have to sell I'm sure is a gutwrenching process. That is really nice that you came here to try and research for your client. You're really doing your job! There are two schools of philosophy that I've encountered on the notion of do I modify or not modify the KR. When I first bought my KR, I was told by friends much smarter than me in this area, "Don't buy that KR. It's too pretty and too rare. You won't be able to do anything with it. You can't modify it because if you do, you'll now be just slapping parts on a mustang." Essentially in their view, it ceases to be a KR. Contrast this with the other philosophy by other friends a lot more versed than myself in this area of modifying unique cars with POSSIBLE....FUTURE value: "Enjoy your KR today. Do what you want to your KR in modifications. Just keep every single original part and have the ability to turn it back to 100% stock. On selling the car, you can either turn it back to 100% stock before the sale, or advise the buyer that the car has been performance enhanced, and that the seller has every original stock part. And leave it up to the buyer what they want to do. Just don't go drilling holes in the frame by putting a roll cage in or anything like that. Do your mods so it can be returned to 100% stock." Obviously, your client chose the latter. Nothing will change the fact that the car is a KR, with a CSM# and the manufacturer of record being SAI. In the purest viewpoint, if you put even sequential tail lights in, and you've touched the car as a result, you've altered the car from what Carroll Shelby put together. Even if you can return it to stock. But that's years and years and years down the road to fully realize that intrinsic value. A quick google search shows this as the definition of intrinsic value: What Does Intrinsic Value Mean? 1. The actual value of a company or an asset based on an underlying perception of its true value including all aspects of the business, in terms of both tangible and intangible factors. This value may or may not be the same as the current market value. Value investors use a variety of analytical techniques in order to estimate the intrinsic value of securities in hopes of finding investments where the true value of the investment exceeds its current market value. Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/intrinsicvalue.asp#ixzz1b5GMV7h4 So how to value your clients car here....today. Is there intrinsic value here...today...with it being a KR. IMO, yes. But not much. And probably not as much as your client would like. That's just my opinion. The value is going to be in the eyes of the buyer. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. The Vista Blue, for example, as you probably know in your research, is the rarest of the KR's. Does that add to the value in the here and now? Depends on the buyer. It's a selling point, but does it have real, hard dollars value today? Depends on the buyer. It would take just the right buyer to realize and fully comprehend/appreciate what owning the rarest of KR translates to in dollars. Especially in this economy. They would have to be pretty visionary, looking to the future, years into the future, on resale. It's like putting upgrades in your house. A new kitchen, bathroom upgrades, flooring, etc......You won't get a 1 for 1 dollar return on your upgrades for the house. But it will definitely make your home more attractive in the market in comparison to those that haven't been upgraded/updated. And might even end up that you get zero on return for your upgrades. But your house will sell faster than your competition. Upgrades in a house that you are living in, not as a pure investment/flip, are done for your enjoyment. I believe this is where the KR sits here today in this economy. The stock KR is an upgrade in-and-of-itself. I believe the seller should be prepared to have little to no return on the 12k in mods put on the car. Even though they improved the performance of the car. I believe the car, in today's economy, should be priced 50-58k. And be willing to wait for that buyer in getting the upper end of the range. Only the seller knows their financial capability of being patient. Whether the mods helps or hurts the car will depend on the buyer. I would have to say as an overall, it would hurt in the resale. I therefore would have to say the seller should be prepared for close to zero return on the mods. The mods were done for his enjoyment. Then his life changed. I don't believe it actually lowers the value of the car here....today. In the future, possibly. It's still a KR. In any event, this is a list of essentials of selling the car today, in preparing for future resale of the KR and realizing that future intrinsic value. And they are major selling points of the car here today: 1) The seller must have all stock parts 2) The seller must have all documentation that came with the car from Shelby. All the certificates. The KR supplement owners manual. The glossy brochures of the Shelby watch, etc......There is a laundry list of items that have been posted multiple times on this KR forum of what should have come with the car in official SAI documentation from the dealership. Another level of documentation that possibly ups the value of the car in the future is anything that absolutely documents the history of the car. You are trying to proof positive, 20 years from now, document the life of the car from day one. For example, even the temporary registration that the dealer gave to him before his plates came. That is proof positive documentation that your client was the original owner. And so on....... These points are major selling points of the car today and should be highlighted as such. I know I've gone on giving a lot of background information on ironically, probably confirming what you already knew. In short, you wanted to know how the mods affect the value of the car. I don't believe it lowers the value of the KR in today's market. But I do believe the seller should be emotionally/financially prepared to lose a good portion of the 12k in mods. If not all. They were done for his enjoyment while owning the car. And he must keep that in mind. They might have value to the buyer or they might not. In any event, the seller must have all the original stock parts. The buyer must have the ability to return it to stock for future sale. Good luck on the sale of your clients beautiful and rare KR. The rarest of the rare. I'm sure he appreciates you doing your due diligence on how to price the car! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500-07 Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Jon, Sorry to hear about your clients health issues. Many people are struggling in this economy and are having to sell and we all get an uneasy feeling as these cars come up for resale. Health issues are worse and often tie into a poor economy as people are then faced with paying healthcare bills. Emotionally, we all put so much thought and care into these cars. We really love them, as I've found all car people really love their cars, no matter what they are. To have to sell I'm sure is a gutwrenching process. That is really nice that you came here to try and research for your client. You're really doing your job! There are two schools of philosophy that I've encountered on the notion of do I modify or not modify the KR. When I first bought my KR, I was told by friends much smarter than me in this area, "Don't buy that KR. It's too pretty and too rare. You won't be able to do anything with it. You can't modify it because if you do, you'll now be just slapping parts on a mustang." Essentially in their view, it ceases to be a KR. Contrast this with the other philosophy by other friends a lot more versed than myself in this area of modifying unique cars with POSSIBLE....FUTURE value: "Enjoy your KR today. Do what you want to your KR in modifications. Just keep every single original part and have the ability to turn it back to 100% stock. On selling the car, you can either turn it back to 100% stock before the sale, or advise the buyer that the car has been performance enhanced, and that the seller has every original stock part. And leave it up to the buyer what they want to do. Just don't go drilling holes in the frame by putting a roll cage in or anything like that. Do your mods so it can be returned to 100% stock." Obviously, your client chose the latter. Nothing will change the fact that the car is a KR, with a CSM# and the manufacturer of record being SAI. In the purest viewpoint, if you put even sequential tail lights in, and you've touched the car as a result, you've altered the car from what Carroll Shelby put together. Even if you can return it to stock. But that's years and years and years down the road to fully realize that intrinsic value. A quick google search shows this as the definition of intrinsic value: What Does Intrinsic Value Mean? 1. The actual value of a company or an asset based on an underlying perception of its true value including all aspects of the business, in terms of both tangible and intangible factors. This value may or may not be the same as the current market value. Value investors use a variety of analytical techniques in order to estimate the intrinsic value of securities in hopes of finding investments where the true value of the investment exceeds its current market value. Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/intrinsicvalue.asp#ixzz1b5GMV7h4 So how to value your clients car here....today. Is there intrinsic value here...today...with it being a KR. IMO, yes. But not much. And probably not as much as your client would like. That's just my opinion. The value is going to be in the eyes of the buyer. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. The Vista Blue, for example, as you probably know in your research, is the rarest of the KR's. Does that add to the value in the here and now? Depends on the buyer. It's a selling point, but does it have real, hard dollars value today? Depends on the buyer. It would take just the right buyer to realize and fully comprehend/appreciate what owning the rarest of KR translates to in dollars. Especially in this economy. They would have to be pretty visionary, looking to the future, years into the future, on resale. It's like putting upgrades in your house. A new kitchen, bathroom upgrades, flooring, etc......You won't get a 1 for 1 dollar return on your upgrades for the house. But it will definitely make your home more attractive in the market in comparison to those that haven't been upgraded/updated. And might even end up that you get zero on return for your upgrades. But your house will sell faster than your competition. Upgrades in a house that you are living in, not as a pure investment/flip, are done for your enjoyment. I believe this is where the KR sits here today in this economy. The stock KR is an upgrade in-and-of-itself. I believe the seller should be prepared to have little to no return on the 12k in mods put on the car. Even though they improved the performance of the car. I believe the car, in today's economy, should be priced 50-58k. And be willing to wait for that buyer in getting the upper end of the range. Only the seller knows their financial capability of being patient. Whether the mods helps or hurts the car will depend on the buyer. I would have to say as an overall, it would hurt in the resale. I therefore would have to say the seller should be prepared for close to zero return on the mods. The mods were done for his enjoyment. Then his life changed. I don't believe it actually lowers the value of the car here....today. In the future, possibly. It's still a KR. In any event, this is a list of essentials of selling the car today, in preparing for future resale of the KR and realizing that future intrinsic value. And they are major selling points of the car here today: 1) The seller must have all stock parts 2) The seller must have all documentation that came with the car from Shelby. All the certificates. The KR supplement owners manual. The glossy brochures of the Shelby watch, etc......There is a laundry list of items that have been posted multiple times on this KR forum of what should have come with the car in official SAI documentation from the dealership. Another level of documentation that possibly ups the value of the car in the future is anything that absolutely documents the history of the car. You are trying to proof positive, 20 years from now, document the life of the car from day one. For example, even the temporary registration that the dealer gave to him before his plates came. That is proof positive documentation that your client was the original owner. And so on....... These points are major selling points of the car today and should be highlighted as such. I know I've gone on giving a lot of background information on ironically, probably confirming what you already knew. In short, you wanted to know how the mods affect the value of the car. I don't believe it lowers the value of the KR in today's market. But I do believe the seller should be emotionally/financially prepared to lose a good portion of the 12k in mods. If not all. They were done for his enjoyment while owning the car. And he must keep that in mind. They might have value to the buyer or they might not. In any event, the seller must have all the original stock parts. The buyer must have the ability to return it to stock for future sale. Good luck on the sale of your clients beautiful and rare KR. The rarest of the rare. I'm sure he appreciates you doing your due diligence on how to price the car! Steve What if you had the Upfit Package with options done by SAI with full documentation? I would think that would hold some future value down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyman Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Ebay bidding for KRs is way down over the last few months. Here are the last 4 to complete their terms on Ebay: 10/17, 2008, 1,679 miles, $39,100. 10/17, 2008, 1,692 miles, $40,100. 10/10, 2009, 607 miles, $45,201. 10/10, 2009 1,215 miles, $37,700. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlugs Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Pretty much everything is down on eBay right now. I sell on eBay, and things are not moving, unless you practically give 'em away. Times are changing, but the market will swing back the other way...eventually. I think those who hang onto their KRs long enough, will be happy they did. If I had the extra cash, I'd love another KR in blue or red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08KR525 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Oldlugs, let me tell you I love my black KR, but it"s my red one that gets all the attention from evryone when I get it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terumi71 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 What if you had the Upfit Package with options done by SAI with full documentation? I would think that would hold some future value down the road. I'm not absolutely sure the relationship between the SAI and the Shelby mod shop across the street from SAI in Las Vegas. IMO, anything done by SAI directly and documented as such, would be perfect and adds value in the future. I think upfit packages are done by SAI directly. I think if you don't want each and every item of an upfit package and you want to cherrypick a few of them, then you have to go across the street to the Shelby mod shop. An upfit package by SAI is all or nothing. Whether the Shelby mod shop is SAI, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlugs Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Oldlugs, let me tell you I love my black KR, but it"s my red one that gets all the attention from evryone when I get it out. Yeah; those red KRs sure are pretty. I had my pick of red, black and silver KRs from a few dealers around here, but went with the black for the "stealth" factor. I know they say that cops don't pick out red cars, but I'm sure the black goes less noticed. That's kind of what got me into the '08 Bullitt too; it's almost invisible, unless you know what it is. P.S.- I apologize for taking the thread sideways.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500-07 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'm not absolutely sure the relationship between the SAI and the Shelby mod shop across the street from SAI in Las Vegas. IMO, anything done by SAI directly and documented as such, would be perfect and adds value in the future. I think upfit packages are done by SAI directly. I think if you don't want each and every item of an upfit package and you want to cherrypick a few of them, then you have to go across the street to the Shelby mod shop. An upfit package by SAI is all or nothing. Whether the Shelby mod shop is SAI, I don't know. the Upfit package is done by SAI and they document the upgrades on the registry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Gutwein Posted October 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Thank you so much for your guys input. Sorry for the delay in the response I have been out of town dealing with family issues. I have talked at length with my customer and I pretty much laid everything out for him. I was suprised to find that I didn't have to walk him back from the ledge when I told him the est. sale price of the vehicle. He is in a bad spot with his health so he knows he needs to get rid of the car but at the same time he wants an owner for it that will take care of it. I thought the emotional attachment between me and my car was intense, he was on the verge of breaking when I came up to talk to him. I am still working on getting all the information with invoices and such for the performance upgrades. I am finding the company is real quick on sending parts no so quick on sending duplicates of invoices. I know that our customer has the original supercharger that came with the vehicle in his garage as we put the larger Ford Racing option on with the last upgrade. The original suspension I am not sure about. We had some of the pieces in the shop for almost a year waiting for our customer to come get them. I am hoping he came and got them but I doubt at the time he was too worried about keeping them and may have given them to our mechanic for a project car. It doesn't make it true stock with the suspensio missing but the upgrades did make the car handle better w/ the stock motor setup. Talking with him about going back to stock is not something he seemed to be too interested in. I explained to him the ramifications and the lesser market he would be able to touch with the car as it sits but he is pretty sure there is someone out there that as he puts it "Enjoys kicking Corvette and Ferrari ass, as much as I do" So the KR is for sale we are looking to get $50,000 for the car. I am supposed to get pictures of it today sometime and plan on posting them later this evening. We will go over the car here at the dealership again before it goes anywhere just to make sure everything is in tiptop shape and detail it again. If anybody has any questions please let me know. Thank you again for your help and information on the vehicle. Jon Gutwein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terumi71 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Not having the original suspension is considerable on any buyer looking to The future for resale as a stock KR. The stock KR suspension is an attempt to have a somewhat racing suspension while retaining a refined, comfortable ride. For an older/refined crowd that want both power and comfort with a slightly stiffer suspension. An upgraded suspension is a plus for the car, but takes out that refinement. The biggest issue is that he nonlonger has it. I do believe the car will sell at 50k. It's still a good price. If the buyer is concerned about future resale as a stock KR, they can buy the suspension from Shelby and call it a day. They will still be dollars ahead for future sale. That should be highlighted to the buyer if it becomes an issue. He has all the original documentation? That might be impossible to replace even now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Gutwein Posted October 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 I realize that the suspension not being there is an issue for someone who is looking to keep the KR as close to stock as possible. My customer has built this KR for speed and to go quickly safely. The stock suspension would not do with the motor upgrades upgrades. I am not sure refinement and my customer has ever been mentioned in the same sentence, which makes him all the better. I know that he would be better off atleast giving potential buyers the option of returning to stock suspension. I don't think he is going to be interested in purchasing the parts himself just to sell them to someone else. He does have all of the paperwork that came with the KR originally though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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