supersnake94 Posted July 16, 2011 Report Share Posted July 16, 2011 So I'm guessing the next GT500 is going to be a 5.8L TVS ZL1-beating monster? http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/14/ford-gt500-not-going-twin-turbo-as-rumored-will-come-with-camar/ also more information about the new Camaro ZL1 http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/14/2012-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-to-debut-with-570-horsepower/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YZD263 Posted July 16, 2011 Report Share Posted July 16, 2011 So I'm guessing the next GT500 is going to be a 5.8L TVS ZL1-beating monster? http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/14/ford-gt500-not-going-twin-turbo-as-rumored-will-come-with-camar/ also more information about the new Camaro ZL1 http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/14/2012-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-to-debut-with-570-horsepower/ There are a few aspects that I find a bit strange when I read this Autoblog article. First, they mention that the car will arrive in early 2013, and will be a 2014 model. Does it mean that the 2013 will remain unchanged? If so, and considering a total redesign for the 2015 model year, I can't see why Ford would restyle the car like they did in 2010 for just the 2014 model year. Finally, ther're talking about a 20hp bump. This doesn't make sense, You don't need a TVS blower and increased displacement to do that. I slightly smaller pulley and/or change in tuning should be enough to achieve such a modest hp gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersnake94 Posted July 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 There are a few aspects that I find a bit strange when I read this Autoblog article. First, they mention that the car will arrive in early 2013, and will be a 2014 model. Does it mean that the 2013 will remain unchanged? If so, and considering a total redesign for the 2015 model year, I can't see why Ford would restyle the car like they did in 2010 for just the 2014 model year. Finally, ther're talking about a 20hp bump. This doesn't make sense, You don't need a TVS blower and increased displacement to do that. I slightly smaller pulley and/or change in tuning should be enough to achieve such a modest hp gain. Probably just a minor error. Hopefully we will see the actual car at Detroit later this year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 I'd expect any changes to be more evolutionary than revolutionary. And with both the 2014 MY chassis change on deck and CAFE staring Ford squarely in the face, I'd look for 2013 to maximize whatever investment it's already made in the existing Aluminum 5.4 rather than leaping to make investments to support a niche product before it must. It's also interesting to note that Ford has closed-out the 2012 model year VERY early - reportedly limiting builds to what's already in the pipe. With production at about 3,900 units, 2012 is going to be a very small (and short) model year by comparison. These are purely my own speculations, but I suspect Ford is ALSO planning for two important factors. The first is the model-year changeover. Ford has done terrifically in managing to stay on the right side of the demand curve, limiting production and the number of units it must incentivize to clear during the model year changeover. Incentives have rarely been fewer or smaller. Because of the way the accounting is done, makers book sales when they sell them to deals, and rebates and incentives actually come OFF the balance sheet whenever they're paid to dealers. Ford has done terrifically in reducing its future exposure which, can literally run into the billions of dollars. For example, GM has overproduced large trucks by some 50,000 units - leaving it with a 110-day supply instead of the optimal 60. That's nearly $400M in surplus sales logged that it can't count-on later in the year, and a conservative $100M incentive liability. The second factor I think may be at play is how Ford expects its upcoming labor negotiations with UAW to go. Despite UAW being a principal owner of both GM and Chrysler and Ford's labor costs are significantly higher than either, AND because both Ford has started to become consistently profitable and doesn't have a no-strike provision to its current labor agreement, UAW leadership has been creating a lot of acrimony and has gone on-record as planning to target Ford to set a precedent it hopes others will follow. A work stoppage may result, which would've disrupted future 2012 deliveries. 2013's aren't slated for assembly until February with deliveries in March 2012, granting Ford more timing leeway - especially with it soon being the only maker at the soon-to-be-unsustainable Flat Rock plant. I personally expect the 2013 to be JUST enough "more" to keep ahead of Camaro ZL1 on paper (the existing G500 is already light years ahead on the road). I predict a revised intercooler with either the existing Eaton supercharger or perhaps a very conservatively-tuned version of the TVS - which could make it a GEM for those with an SCT. I'd love to see Ford ALSO give the 2013 model actual rear brakes, power and heated seats (in all varieties) and a goddamned backup camera - for which Ford has NO excuse omitting from a $60K car. Those are my thoughts anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2010KonaBlueGT Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 I personally expect the 2013 to be JUST enough "more" to keep ahead of Camaro ZL1 on paper (the existing G500 is already light years ahead on the road). I predict a revised intercooler with either the existing Eaton supercharger or perhaps a very conservatively-tuned version of the TVS - which could make it a GEM for those with an SCT. I'd love to see Ford ALSO give the 2013 model actual rear brakes, power and heated seats (in all varieties) and a goddamned backup camera - for which Ford has NO excuse omitting from a $60K car. Those are my thoughts anyway. See my other post in this section for my thoughts. I'm right in line with you execpt I haven't seen anyone mention using the TViCT variable cam timing that most of the other platforms are using. Variable cam timing would get you SOOO much more power from the same displacement engine so you could "have your cake" (i.e. the 5.4L Al. spray bore block) and "eat it too" (gain Tq/HP with the ability to use the better, larger and more efficient 2.3L TVS). All of the technology is currently in Ford's hands. The basic building blocks are currently available; The 5.4L spray bore and the 2.3L TVS is already in Ford's hands. Just add the two of them together. You will gain power AND keep the CAFE standards intact (no increase in displacement, variable cam timing = more efficient use of current FI systems). It'll be interesting, Phill Pollard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Well, it seems like Ford is dedicating some resources to improving the 5.0 L V8, to help boost GT's on-paper performance (plus whatever more it actually adds to the car itself). There's no question direct injection will deliver some welcome additional efficiency, power and how the power holds forth, but what seems like such a shame is that Ford is trying to keep parity with Camaro - a car that can't keep-up with Mustang GT to begin with, even if the posers are buying Camaro fairly well. It seems the 2015 model year will be the official "50th Anniversary" year - with product arriving close to the actual April 2014 anniversary. It also seems Ford has some cosmetic treatments in-store for the S197 that will be the final version carrying the GT and GT500 through 2013-2014. I DO think the GT's front end could do with some reworking, and giving it a more GT500-like appearance is apparently part of what's in-store - which will also add LED running/fog lamps to keep up with the 21st century. Unfortunately, a rework of the rear end ALSO seems to be in-store, and the upward sweep of the tail light array will be revised to be more straight across - according to Jalopnik. I understand Ford's wanting to appeal to a broader base of the mass market. The shareholder side of my brain fully appreciates the need to appeal to the people who seem to be willing to buy a much-inferior Camaro for cosmetic reasons alone - even those like a bunker-style seating stance, blind spot creating A-piller and ergonomically awful control setup that make it a lousy car to drive without considering its lackluster road manners. But the enthusiast side of me has really come to appreciate the elegant balance Ford has struck with the current version of the S197's retro appearance and fully modern styling. I'll undoubtedly love what 2013 has to offer in terms of power, but I hope Ford doesn't go "Hot Wheels" on the body. It will be a very tough choice, if I'm able to land the 2012 I want, to opt for a 2013 if it's not as beautiful a car - performance improvements notwithstanding. Fortunately, the 2.9L Whipple makes for a a very livable 2011-2012 no matter what comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Dixon 14413 Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Ford’s new agreement with the UAW shows that the initial report of a 5.8-liter supercharged V8 was indeed correct. The contract states that the Romeo Engine Assembly Plant will receive a $50 million investment and start production of a 5.8-liter supercharged V8 when the 2013 Shelby GT500 goes into production next year. The plant will also continue the production of the 6.2-liter V8 found in the Ford F-150. The contract also shows that the AutoAlliance International Assembly Plant, which produces the Mustang, will receive a $555 million investment and take on production of the next generation Ford Fusion in place of the Mazda6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Ford's new agreement with the UAW shows that the initial report of a 5.8-liter supercharged V8 was indeed correct. Correction: Ford's new tentative agreement with the UAW - whose membership may NOT have the God given good sense to ratify it sight unseen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Dixon 14413 Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 I work at Ford, times are tough I believe it pass. theres also new product for the future at most plants. Correction: Ford's new tentative agreement with the UAW - whose membership may NOT have the God given good sense to ratify it sight unseen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Ford's new agreement with the UAW shows that the initial report of a 5.8-liter supercharged V8 was indeed correct. The contract states that the Romeo Engine Assembly Plant will receive a $50 million investment and start production of a 5.8-liter supercharged V8 when the 2013 Shelby GT500 goes into production next year. The plant will also continue the production of the 6.2-liter V8 found in the Ford F-150. The contract also shows that the AutoAlliance International Assembly Plant, which produces the Mustang, will receive a $555 million investment and take on production of the next generation Ford Fusion in place of the Mazda6. This is great news for thew workers there. I have been on the 2008 Plant tour and the 2011 plant tour and I'm looking forward to going again. I have met some good friends there....including my engine builders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 I work at Ford, times are tough I believe it pass. theres also new product for the future at most plants. Which plant do you work at ? Do you know Brian and Paul ? Paul just moved out of Romeo to the transmission plant because he was worried about job security. He loved building the niche motors and was sad to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Dixon 14413 Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 I work at Sharonville Transmission plant just north of Cincinnati Ohio, Sorry I don't know Brian or Paul. Did Paul transfer to Van Dyke or Livonia Transmission? I also had the honor to go to Flat Rock to see my GT500 assembled. Spent about five hours there touring the plant. My UAW plant chairman is good friends with Flat Rocks chairman and he arranged for me to see my car being built. Something i'll never forget. Which plant do you work at ? Do you know Brian and Paul ? Paul just moved out of Romeo to the transmission plant because he was worried about job security. He loved building the niche motors and was sad to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 I also had the honor to go to Flat Rock to see my GT500 assembled. Spent about five hours there touring the plant. My UAW plant chairman is good friends with Flat Rocks chairman and he arranged for me to see my car being built.Something i'll never forget. Wow. I bet not. Too bad us poor customers and shareholders aren't so well connected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Dixon 14413 Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Wow. I bet not. Too bad us poor customers and shareholders aren't so well connected. Trust me assembly plants are very busy places with alot of people moving and fork lifts moving parts. Safety is Number 1 in Ford plants. I wish they could open there doors for everyday tours but there is alot of risk. But if Shelby offers plant tours again I would highly recommend going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Trust me assembly plants are very busy places with alot of people moving and fork lifts moving parts. Safety is Number 1 in Ford plants. I wish they could open there doors for everyday tours but there is alot of risk. But if Shelby offers plant tours again I would highly recommend going. Damn. And I thought Job 1 was Quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Dixon 14413 Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Damn. And I thought Job 1 was Quality. You have to be safe on the job and Quality is job 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hourigan218 Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 So do any of you guys at FORD or anyone else have any idea as to when the "13" GT500 will be coming out? I have heard as early as MARCH 2012. I understand the SHELBY will debut in NOVEMBER but when will production start? For the most part we all know about the engine and it's possible H.P. increase and the minor possible body mods( tail lights, L.E.D.'S etc.) but most else will stay the same. HOPE THEY FIX THE 1st TO 2nd SHIFT PROBLEM !!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2010KonaBlueGT Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 So do any of you guys at FORD or anyone else have any idea as to when the "13" GT500 will be coming out? I have heard as early as MARCH 2012. I understand the SHELBY will debut in NOVEMBER but when will production start? For the most part we all know about the engine and it's possible H.P. increase and the minor possible body mods( tail lights, L.E.D.'S etc.) but most else will stay the same. HOPE THEY FIX THE 1st TO 2nd SHIFT PROBLEM !!!!!!!! When I was told that the 2013 would have a 5.8L engine I was also told there would be a *minor* change to the front but that was the only change. And the change was VERY minor (but he could not say what the change was). I was also told that the HP rating would be UNDER the 'Vette and that he didn't *think* the 2.3L TVS would be used (but could not say for sure). I'm assuming the "minor change to the front" will be the grille opening, or the fog lamp location, or something like that. Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhlgt500 Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 So do any of you guys at FORD or anyone else have any idea as to when the "13" GT500 will be coming out? I have heard as early as MARCH 2012. I understand the SHELBY will debut in NOVEMBER but when will production start? For the most part we all know about the engine and it's possible H.P. increase and the minor possible body mods( tail lights, L.E.D.'S etc.) but most else will stay the same. HOPE THEY FIX THE 1st TO 2nd SHIFT PROBLEM !!!!!!!! Might be other rumors out there, but I just saw this. Order banks open Dec. Production starts in Feb. http://www.mustangheaven.com/2011/2013-mustang-order-banks-set-to-open-in-december/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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