The Case Against/For the GTS

[tpow96]

After reading some of the threads on this forum, working

next to the GTS at the NYC Auto Show for a couple of days,

speaking to the SA guys there, and rationalizing the reasons

to buy one or not, I figure I'd post my thoughts here for comment.

First off, this represents my opinion only, and I tried to

weigh the pros and cons as evenly as possible. But I have my bias

just like everyone else that will become evident at the end.

 

The Case Against

 

Where the GTS compares unfavorably is the comparison to the

Boss 302. Aesthetics aside (beauty is in the eye of the beholder),

mechanically the GTS falls short for the 12K in price difference

between a base GT and the final product. For that amount, the

Boss 302 would give you better brakes, seats, wheels, and a

significant bump in HP, not to mention a tougher engine should

one choose to supercharge. Now it is hard to compare FMC to SA

from a sheer volume perspective in terms of doing things cheaper,

but one thing that stands out is the 2K in price difference between

the V6 and V8 GTS packages. I know this has been brought up before

in this forum, but I have yet to understand the difference between

the two. For 2K, the differences in brakes, seats, wheels, and even

hp could be shrunk. Then some of the benefits of the GTS could play

in: exclusivity, no dealer markups, cheaper entry options (2011

used models/2012 wholesale prices), and more customization.

 

The Case For

 

Where the GTS compares favorably is the comparison to the NA

GT350. Again, aesthetics aside (and someone wanting the look and

name of the GT350 would never literally buy into this argument),

the 12k price difference between the GTS and the NA GT350 would

buy you a whole bunch of mods at the Speed Shop that would make

it better in so many ways. But also it would make it customizable

with what the buyer wants, such as a track warrior or strip monster.

Or better yet, spend enough for the GTS to mechanically match the NA

GT350, and spend the rest at racing schools to make you a faster

driver and have that much more fun to boot.

 

My Decision

 

I like the Boss 302 a lot and love the 5.0 Coyote even more. The

best display at the Ford section of the NYC Auto Show was the lineup

of engines on separate stands with cutaway portions. The possibility

of getting that 5.0 in the GTS really intrigued me, plus the hood

and lack of side scoops really puts my SGT fakers to shame. However,

to keep my marriage intact and with only one garage space, I'm limited

to one toy. That means getting rid of my beloved SGT, which ultimately

I was unprepared to do. The classic S197 look hasn't been improved IMHO,

and the pre-titled birth of my car still makes it special to me. So

now I'm planning out the swap of the 5.0 into my SGT, and if I get

really lucky at Carlisle that will start in June.

 

-Tom

 

P.S. I've attached the build sheets from Ford that I used for my comparisons.

MGT.pdf

BOSS.pdf

MGT.pdf

BOSS.pdf

[springer]

Interesting post. One thing that would help out with pricing on the GTS would be if you purchased a pre-owned GT which could save you $6000 or $7,000 instead of buying new. If you could purchase pre-owned for $25,000 and add the GTS package with some Shelby extras, you could have a fairly-well optioned GTS for $42,000. With some super-tuning and a few performance mods by Gill at Shelby's speed shop, it wouldn't be a stretch to get a 5.0 cranking out 440 to 450 HP.

[SWEDEMAN]

Well you knew I would speak up here! I am the "brand" lover and always will be as Shelby blood runs deep in my body so ultimately I do hope the GTS has a place in the someones garage, it just won't be mine. I say that with a little reluctance but sincerety too as I told Steve in an email, " I was a little harsh on the GTS, I just didn't want Shelby to end up with another "Chrysler Shelby"! And the GTS at least is a Mustang and they are trying to be in everybodies garage in one way or another so you have to hand it to them, they are trying. And if you think about it Shelby had to offer these cars whether they sell or not. They had to "try" to broaden the brand and make it available to "joe-six-pack" instead of the few who have the big money to buy the SuperSnake or GT350's, I give them credit for that. That being said that is where it ends for me too because I truly believe this...why would someone pay that kind of coin for a car that is not complete? The average buyer of a GTS would have to spend another $12K just to be competitive with the GT350 and be even with a BOSS 302 and not have the 'real" exclusivity of the GT350 or BOSS. Shelby is trying and we will all see if it works and for them I hope it does but for me to change from my SGT/SC it would not be a GTS but for a N/A GT350 at least I would have a car that brings drool where ever it goes and exclusivity that very few have and for the same $$ as a GTS built up. Well I wish you luck with the 302 Coyote in the SGT, and who knows, even though I 100% LOVE my SGT/SC, I may trade it one day for the GT350. But for now, the car just got back from Shelby, it is a keeper.....for this summer at least.

[ilmor]

I have to agree with your decision. It would only happen if my 4.6 blows up (i.e., highly unlikely), but if it did I would definitely attempt to replace it with the Boss motor (assuming I could meet state / local emissions BS).....

[NordicShelby]

I was just checking ebay yesterday for the prices on Boss's and it really is stupid that dealers are getting mark ups prices.

 

I can across this engine and thought "If I blow up my 4.6 this is what I will put into my SGT" http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2012-BOSS-302-Laguna-Engine-2011-Coyote-5-0L-Motor-Upgd-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3cb7cbfe6dQQitemZ260781637229QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

 

I have thought about getting the BOSS 302S directly from Ford racing I have a dealer that will sell me one for $77,000 I have three fairly expensive toys that if I sell them it will equel close to that amount. If I were able to get the 302S it sure would be fun showing up to the track with that.

[SGT/SC#0471]

I think the GTS is cool, but I still like my GT/SC better than any of the new ones....

[SGT/SC#0471]

Chad used race cars are pretty good deals if you want o e check em out at racecarsforsale.com

[svttim]

I was just checking ebay yesterday for the prices on Boss's and it really is stupid that dealers are getting mark ups prices.

 

I can across this engine and thought "If I blow up my 4.6 this is what I will put into my SGT" http://cgi.ebay.com/...sQ5fAccessories

 

I have thought about getting the BOSS 302S directly from Ford racing I have a dealer that will sell me one for $77,000 I have three fairly expensive toys that if I sell them it will equel close to that amount. If I were able to get the 302S it sure would be fun showing up to the track with that.

 

 

Same person that has this motor can get you a Boss S. I would highly recomend them. Its true used racecars are cheap (relatively) but factory race cars are a bit different. Now, If you want a solid and fast racecar, I can get you the twin to my car for less than 30. It does not have all the bells and whistles but, you can add what you want.

 

The GTS is a fine car and fills a marketing niche for Shelby, Dont forget, the 6 works extreemly well for this. Think thats silly, go down and drive one (6cyl)

[kahmann]

^Hey Tim did you ever post up a build thread on that track star of yours? If I recall correctly, you started with a body in white or something along those lines eh?

[kahmann]

p.s. The GTS is a sweet looking car. It looks like a newer SGT though, so why wouldn't it be?

I'm not quite sold on the price tag of the package, however. They had a hell of a difficult time moving SGT's off dealer lots with similar mark-ups. I can't imagine that they'll sell a whole lot of them, but I sure hope they do.

I'd really love to see a 2011 Terlingua honestly. That's about the only thing that would get me off of my wallet right about now. The new 6-banger is a kick in the ass and it gets great mileage. I think the lines on the new cars would serve the Terlingua style extremely well.

[SGT/SC#0471]

Same person that has this motor can get you a Boss S. I would highly recomend them. Its true used racecars are cheap (relatively) but factory race cars are a bit different. Now, If you want a solid and fast racecar, I can get you the twin to my car for less than 30. It does not have all the bells and whistles but, you can add what you want.

 

The GTS is a fine car and fills a marketing niche for Shelby, Dont forget, the 6 works extreemly well for this. Think thats silly, go down and drive one (6cyl)

 

 

 

Do you have any pics? Thanks!

[SGT/SC#0471]

p.s. The GTS is a sweet looking car. It looks like a newer SGT though, so why wouldn't it be?

I'm not quite sold on the price tag of the package, however. They had a hell of a difficult time moving SGT's off dealer lots with similar mark-ups. I can't imagine that they'll sell a whole lot of them, but I sure hope they do.

I'd really love to see a 2011 Terlingua honestly. That's about the only thing that would get me off of my wallet right about now. The new 6-banger is a kick in the ass and it gets great mileage. I think the lines on the new cars would serve the Terlingua style extremely well.

 

 

 

I agree the cleaner execution works for me...

[SWEDEMAN]

Hmmmmm......I wish I had your guys view on the GTS. It just appears to me like the car is unfinished and it needs alot of upgrades to be competitive with a Boss or a GT350.I don't want to put the car down anymore but I just can't see the "true" Shelby in it. Love to see one all done up and how much it would cost here is my example:

 

GT Premium - $34, 105.00 retail price

Shelby GTS package: $11,995.00

Wheel and tire package - $1800.00 approx.

 

Total: $47,900.00 retail price

After discounts - $43,900.

 

This is with no engine reflash or any extra power mods. I hear you can get a base GT350 for $56K +/- after discounts. The GTS does not make alot of sense to me, sorry. Hey I hope I am wrong and they sell 3000 cars!

[svttim]

^Hey Tim did you ever post up a build thread on that track star of yours? If I recall correctly, you started with a body in white or something along those lines eh?

 

 

 

It was a BIW but I didnt build it. Not the talent nor the time.

[SGT/SC#0471]

It was a BIW but I didnt build it. Not the talent nor the time.

 

 

C'mon you're killing me!

 

Do you have. Revan car?

[SGT/SC#0471]

Hmmmmm......I wish I had your guys view on the GTS. It just appears to me like the car is unfinished and it needs alot of upgrades to be competitive with a Boss or a GT350.I don't want to put the car down anymore but I just can't see the "true" Shelby in it. Love to see one all done up and how much it would cost here is my example:

 

GT Premium - $34, 105.00 retail price

Shelby GTS package: $11,995.00

Wheel and tire package - $1800.00 approx.

 

Total: $47,900.00 retail price

After discounts - $43,900.

 

This is with no engine reflash or any extra power mods. I hear you can get a base GT350 for $56K +/- after discounts. The GTS does not make alot of sense to me, sorry. Hey I hope I am wrong and they sell 3000 cars!

 

 

well swede, remember when people saud tge same for the SGT in 07, I do and whatever I think 43 is what it is...

 

for some the 350 is too much or out of budget.

[SWEDEMAN]

well swede, remember when people saud tge same for the SGT in 07, I do and whatever I think 43 is what it is...

 

for some the 350 is too much or out of budget.

 

 

I agree, they all dis'd the SGT, I always loved the SGT though and not just because the ADM's were so high on the GT500's, I just like the look of it better. But like you said, it is what it is. I really would like to see one all done up with a new 20" wheel package, SC and lowered that might change my stance a bit. However I would then just compare it to the GT350, Hmmmm..... no winners here. It is just a different time in 2011 excpet for the BOSS cars not really anything is bring sticker price anymore.

With that being said I know I have $55-$57K+ into my SGT now, I can only imagine what a guy like Roger had in his..............$80-90K+, maybe a hun$ky? And to think after all that he went Chevy, unreal. I think our SC'd cars would beat his "stock" ZO6, he wouldn't think so though he is in LOVE with his chevy now. frign traitor?

[kahmann]

It was a BIW but I didnt build it. Not the talent nor the time.

 

Whatever Tim, post some flippin pics already.

 

well swede, remember when people saud tge same for the SGT in 07, I do and whatever I think 43 is what it is...

 

for some the 350 is too much or out of budget.

 

Yep, exactly. The SGT had the same yawns and critiques. It's not a 'real' Shelby. It can't compete with a run of the mill German sedan. $10k for badges, stripes, and struts.

How can an SGT owner look at a GTS and not love the style? They're freakin identical.

 

 

[SGT/SC#0471]

I agree, they all dis'd the SGT, I always loved the SGT though and not just because the ADM's were so high on the GT500's, I just like the look of it better. But like you said, it is what it is. I really would like to see one all done up with a new 20" wheel package, SC and lowered that might change my stance a bit. However I would then just compare it to the GT350, Hmmmm..... no winners here. It is just a different time in 2011 excpet for the BOSS cars not really anything is bring sticker price anymore.

With that being said I know I have $55-$57K+ into my SGT now, I can only imagine what a guy like Roger had in his..............$80-90K+, maybe a hun$ky? And to think after all that he went Chevy, unreal. I think our SC'd cars would beat his "stock" ZO6, he wouldn't think so though he is in LOVE with his chevy now. frign traitor?

 

 

 

Rodger seriously got a ZO6??? or is it a development mule? He still owns the SGT/SC right?......hhhhmmmmmmmmm

 

Rodger Dodger show us some pics of that bad boy!!!

 

And Tim c'mon I'm beggin!! Haha

 

I agree with Ken the GTS is very close to the SGT in execution...

[kahmann]

Say it ain't so Roger

[SGT/SC#0471]

Say it ain't so Roger

 

 

 

I have seen this posted somewhere before...

 

I kinda dig the new vettes myself...and its bout time for some gold chains at 1582.00 an ounce!

[A10ACN]

I'd really love to see a 2011 Terlingua honestly. That's about the only thing that would get me off of my wallet right about now. The new 6-banger is a kick in the ass and it gets great mileage. I think the lines on the new cars would serve the Terlingua style extremely well.

 

 

I don't dig the concept of the GTS, the GTS package, and especially the price for what you get. Its lame in my opinion. Everybody and their brother is offering a Mustang GT package these days. However, that little V6 is a neat engine and all the hoopla they made with the Terlingua would be an even better fit with an exclusive 2011+ V6 model. If they really wanted to do something more unique without going outside the lanes of the Shelby brand- a turbo V6 on a stiffened, lightened package would be cool and fill a different niche while being unique in a field of modded Mustang GTs.

[Glenn Greenwell]

There sure is a great deal of gripping about the Shelby GTS package and how much it costs. I actually like it, I think it falls short in Shelby should have done some type of flash tune to give it a little more bang for the buck.

 

It is essentially the same stuff we got on our SGT Mustangs,maybe minus the rear sway bar squeak (sorry I couldn't resist) crummy stripes and a warped hood. I say this but all cars have their issues.............

 

I sometimes think if we were honest maybe we are jealous of the new body style. Mine is not for sale, I like this new GTS package as I have stated before. It allows us to pick and choose our options. I would have rather bought it off the Ford production line as the wait time at Shelby is just too long.

 

I think Shelby will sell these GTSs and who knows, when you place the order, you may be able to get a flash tune for a few extra bucks. I am keeping my SGT/BJ.

 

It's all good GG

[tpow96]

I don't dig the concept of the GTS, the GTS package, and especially the price for what you get. Its lame in my opinion. Everybody and their brother is offering a Mustang GT package these days. However, that little V6 is a neat engine and all the hoopla they made with the Terlingua would be an even better fit with an exclusive 2011+ V6 model. If they really wanted to do something more unique without going outside the lanes of the Shelby brand- a turbo V6 on a stiffened, lightened package would be cool and fill a different niche while being unique in a field of modded Mustang GTs.

 

 

When I spoke to folk at the NYC show about the GTS, it was mostly about the V6 version.

Mileage was a big plus, and a few mentioned adding turbos later if they wanted more power,

which makes sense in terms of efficiencies towards keeping higher MPG numbers. I did

not include it in the OP as my interest in Shelbys runs strictly with V8 models. But if there is

a market out there for V6 versions, I'd be happy for them to pursue it to help keep SA alive.

 

-Tom

[svttim]

C'mon you're killing me!

 

Do you have. Revan car?

 

 

 

Rehagen

[svttim]

When I spoke to folk at the NYC show about the GTS, it was mostly about the V6 version.

Mileage was a big plus, and a few mentioned adding turbos later if they wanted more power,

which makes sense in terms of efficiencies towards keeping higher MPG numbers. I did

not include it in the OP as my interest in Shelbys runs strictly with V8 models. But if there is

a market out there for V6 versions, I'd be happy for them to pursue it to help keep SA alive.

 

-Tom

 

 

 

I have to agree, the V6 option makes a lot more sense then the V8. It should handle better than a standard Mustang GT, get better fuel economy and costy less to insure. Great way to get the younger crowd involved with the brand. Leave the V8 to the GT350

[tpow96]

Hmmmmm......I wish I had your guys view on the GTS. It just appears to me like the car is unfinished and it needs alot of upgrades to be competitive with a Boss or a GT350.I don't want to put the car down anymore but I just can't see the "true" Shelby in it. Love to see one all done up and how much it would cost here is my example:

 

GT Premium - $34, 105.00 retail price

Shelby GTS package: $11,995.00

Wheel and tire package - $1800.00 approx.

 

Total: $47,900.00 retail price

After discounts - $43,900.

 

This is with no engine reflash or any extra power mods. I hear you can get a base GT350 for $56K +/- after discounts. The GTS does not make alot of sense to me, sorry. Hey I hope I am wrong and they sell 3000 cars!

 

 

Here is where you and I part ways, SWEDE. My OP was the reality of my situation. My fantasy of

owning more than one Shelby would be different. I would want a Shelby I could tailor for track days

leaving my SGT for autox duties. So any extra frills like the Premium package that adds weight is

not important to me, nor anything appearance related on the GT-350. So sticking to functional

items, my math comes to following:

 

GT Standard - $30, 500.00 retail price (adds only the 3.73 rear end, but could go cheaper with a used option)

Shelby GTS package: $11,995.00 (2K more than it should be but we'll stick with SA figure)

Wheel and tire package - $1800.00 approx (your est. which is correct)

 

That brings me to: $44,295 compared to $56K for the base NA version of the GT-350. Leaving me

just under to $12K to puchase the following and be functionally equivalent to that GT-350:

 

Upgrade 2 piston front brakes to 6 piston

Front and rear brake cooling ducts (may have to be non SA parts)

Caster/camber plates

A pillar gauge package (may have to be non SA parts)

Engine reflash/extra power (intake?) tricks

 

With the change I can buy some more tricks to be *exclusive* enough to beat NA GT-350s. That's

my case for the GTS.

 

-Tom

[svttim]

Do you have any pics? Thanks!

 

 

 

I apologize, I missed this. Here is a pic of my car whenI bought it. Its the same except a white interior

 

 

[SGT/SC#0471]

Thanks Tim, That is really got me drooling... Very nice!

[kahmann]

Me too.. I shoulda bought a turn key track car like that right off the bat. Now I gotta wait till I wreck my SGT!