Tuning the KR

[terumi71]

Here is the article that I wanted to post concerning MAF curves and why it is wrong at its core for a tuner to to adjust the MAF curve. If you are going to tune the KR, it should only be of peripheral stuff. Things like adjusting the timing map. And the a/f map. Maybe up the torque limiter a touch so the car isn't held back. Up the rpm limiter 150. Yes, there are conservative things that ford did to protect their cars. But realize, you can advance timing to 24 degrees if you want...and if you put good gas in....race gas....you might actually get that full 24 degrees in running the car! But for everything that you change on the KR, realize, you are stepping closer to the limit up to and including the engine blowing up. Baby steps, like adding another degree of timing, or the other things I mentioned, you are still well away from the danger zones.

 

The procal tune that ford sells: you don't need the procal tune with the TVS. The KR will run fine without the procal tune and a TVS install. So why does ford tell you that you need a tune with the tvs? Two reasons...first....is they make money. But the more important reason is that ford has gotten burned before with......TUNES! People go out and tune their cars, adjusting the MAF system, and their engines blow up or won't run right! So........ford sells that procal tune, to reset everything in the car. That's it. Nothing more nothing less. Yes, they make money on it. But it assures that the consumer is starting at factory settings so ford protects themselves. If you haven't tuned your kr, you don't need the procal tune with the tvs. But ford protects themselves.

 

The tvs dropping in price...why? Because the 2013's are going to come with the tvs. So they are making them in volume.

 

The hazard in the tuners...which again isn't really their fault because that's how they are trained.....is that they go in and mess with the MAF curve. If you are going to get the KR tuned, it should be limited to the things I stated above. DON'T LET THEM TOUCH THE MAF CURVE. They can adjust the fuel and timing maps, up some limiters, but that's it.

 

The mustang shop that stated with the tvs you, "need", a fuel, MAF, and heat upgrade, and a tune, is patently not true. The car is ready as it sits to bolt the tvs on and it will run just fine. And for sure there is no needed upgrade in the MAF system. Not until you go above 650 rwhp. And that's with a safety margin. It's really up at about 675 rwhp. So 650 is, again, conservative.

 

Anyway, the article probably does better to address this MAF stuff than I can. In the end, tuners are trained to do what they are told to do. Which involves, "tricking", the computer when adjusting the MAF curve. Let...the...computer....do...its...job. You can adjust other things, but don't let a tuner adjust the MAF. And realize, everything that you change, is taking out a margin of safety.

 

Here's the article. BTW, this article was written by a guy that owned his own speed shop for years. Has done thousands and thousands of tunes. Was a sponsored ford racing team drag racer running 7.5/190mph .25 miles. He knows everyone that is anyone in ford racing and was instrumental in the development of many racing parts for both ford and aftermarket companies like Steeda, MMS, CHE engineering, asp racing, sniper software, and so on. There isn't one company that I've spoken with that doesn't have the highest of regards for the author. I posted his article earlier, but figured I better ask him first and deleted it. He said no problem....but that it was going to cause a lot of controversy!!

 

Here's the article:

 

 

_____________________________________________________________________

 

MAF basics

 

 

Some basic info about MAF and MAF transfer curves.

 

 

Understanding a mass air meter and why it so critical to have the correct meter curve in a tune.

 

This is where 99 percent of the tuners get themselves in trouble and it all starts from step one.(The Mass Air Meter and Meter Curve) Lets not even worry about the rest of the tune (that's a completely different story)the first and most important step all starts here.

 

The MAF meter is the first point where air enters the motor and every calculation and I mean every calculation the computer does will depend on that being a actual and real measurement. (Load, Idle,part throttle, WOT, A/F, timing, torque calculations ,etc. all depend on it)

 

 

The main purpose of a Mass air meter is to measure airflow.

The Meter operates in a range from 0-5volts

5 volts being the highest it could read

 

Every voltage point from 0-5volts for a given mass air meter and sensor represents an actual air flow measurement.

 

So if you put a MAF meter housing with a sensor on a flow bench you can obtain a mass air transfer function for that given meter sensor combo.(A mass air meter will only work correctly/measure correctly if these values are accurate)

So lets say this is the data you obtained after flowing the meter on a flow bench.(And by the way this is exactly how Ford does their mass air meters and curves)

 

example

0 volts = 0 airflow

1 volt = 500 CFM

2 volts =800CFm

3 Volts =1200 cfm

4 volts = 1500 cfm

5 volts =1800CFM

every voltage point in-between those valves will also equal a CFM valve somewhere between them .(Just using whole numbers for this example.)

 

If you needed A MAF meter to measure more CFM, there is two ways to do it correctly.

One use a different sensor that has a different range in the same housing.

Two use the same sensor but increase the size of the housing

 

Another note since CFM is a direct relation to HP this is how a computer can/will calculate the torque the motor is making at a given RPM.(one way how torque management works/is calculated)

 

It takes 1.5 CFM to make 1 hp

 

Knowing this, you can take a mass air voltage/reading from your MAF and calculate how much HP your engine is making.(But again only if you know the meter and meter curve is accurate)

Believe it or not this is how top fuel teams figure out how much HP their engines make(Hard to dyno an engine making 5000hp plus HP, no dyno can really read that high, until maybe the last couple of years) They measure how much CFM the engine is moving and then calculated that into HP

 

 

Now going back to one of my first statement's that 99 percent of the tuners get themselves in trouble here and cause all kinds of issues ranging from bad startups, pinging, driveabilty issues, idle issues etc.

Here is why

 

Most tuners out there were TAUGHT.... to adjust the A/F ratio by moving the transfer curve in the tune.(Will it change an A/F ratio it sure will...........) They really don't understand how a mass air system works. (If they did they would NEVER do this) Its really a shame because most tuners feel this is the correct way to tune.(they really believe they are tuning correctly)

Why ... again because this is the way they were shown. Since they were shown that, it has to be correct way. They were never actually shown or understand what that mass air meter is doing or suppose to do.

 

They were also taught to create a mass air curve from scratch or adjust a curve by datalogging short terms or using an A/F gauge to tweak or enter a value in the curve depending on the short term voltage or the a/f ratio measured coming out the tailpipe.

They will move a curve up or down until they get the a/f ratio they are looking to obtain.

 

So lets see why this is the wrong way of doing things

Lets look at the example data above created from a MAF metering using a flow bench.

 

Lets take the 2 volt measurement which equals 800 CFM (which we know is a real and actual air flow measurement for this example)

 

We are driving our car and the mass air meter is at 2 volts.

OK the computer will take that 2 volts reading and start calculating how much to open the injector to hit a target A/F, referencing the air fuel ratio target map. (If the injector slopes and all are correct in the tune and depending on your fuel pumps/system etc. whatever you have in your target a/f will be what you will obtain out the tailpipe)

 

It will also look/calculate load, timing maps etc. from this measurement but lets just look at the A/F ratio here.

 

If for some reason (and can be many) the target a/f is suppose to be 12 to1 and 10 to 1 is coming out the tailpipe.

 

What the tuner will do instead of adjusting the correct parameters they will take the 800 CFM value at 2 volts and make it a smaller CFM value/ number in the maf curve to trick the engine in thinking its moving less air.

If the engine thinks its moving less air it will calculate the injector not to open as much delivering less fuel, which will cause that 10.1 A/F to hit the 12.1 A/f that is targeted.

 

So what did they do and how they tune, is by looking or only caring only about the A/F ratio.

Every other calculation done at that point the computer does will be wrong..... why ....................because it thinking its moving less air then it really is now!!!!

 

This is a real basic and simple example.

I hope this helps your understanding of why and how important it is to really know what that mass air meter is measuring and what the MAF curve does in the tune.

 

A few years ago it was more forgiving when the drive by wire didn't exist to tune by moving or creating a MAF curve the wrong way.

 

Drive by wire and or highly modified cars will only amplify issues when a car is tuned with an inaccurate MAF or MAF curve.

 

There are many more other unintended negative affects that will occur as a result of a tuner who changes a known MAF curve that has been established on a professional flow bench,( like the one Ford uses) for the purpose of adjusting air/fuel but I’ll leave that for another day.

 

 

 

 

 

Just look in the 2011 Ford racing catalog

 

similar statements.

 

online catalog

 

http://www.fordracin...m/2011-catalog/

 

Read page 154 bottom paragraph

 

page 220 explains alittle about the maf and its calibration

[FiaCobra]

Thanks for the article, very informative.

 

One thing I didn't know was that the TVS was going to be equipped in new models. That's good news since I've been wanting one but now I will wait until the prices fall back down to earth.

[Captain Beyond]

So...I can buy a FRPP TVS (without their Procal tune) and just bolt it on since my KR's tune is the same?

[Captain Beyond]

Thanks for the article, very informative.

 

One thing I didn't know was that the TVS was going to be equipped in new models. That's good news since I've been wanting one but now I will wait until the prices fall back down to earth.

 

 

Right now, you can get a TVS for $2700 shipped. That's a great deal.

[terumi71]

So...I can buy a FRPP TVS (without their Procal tune) and just bolt it on since my KR's tune is the same?

 

 

Yes. Bolt it on. Done. The car is setup as it sits with all the hardware you need and all the software you need. It is only waiting for the tvs.

 

If you want to do some peripheral stuff, you can do that. But nothing is necessary. The spark plugs are easy to replace. The ngk iridium spark plugs gapped I think at 31 or 32. An L&M 66mm throttle body, with electronics I think is $480. Any tuning would be little things as I mentioned: advance the timing from 18 to 19. Up the rpm limiter maybe 150. Up the torque a little. Address the fuel mapping in some fashion.

 

I AM....going to do this. In time. I will do it exactly as I've described. And a buddy of mine will give me these peripheral tune items (the guy that wrote the article). You are welcome to those peripheral tune items.

 

Fia, my pleasure. As I said before, I get a lot more out of this forum than I put in. I'd say probably most everyone here are more, "car guys", than I am. I always wanted a mustang, true. From my father having one. But never actively pursued it until I bought the SGT and then traded for the KR.

 

But (there's always a but!), when I do want to do something, I dig into it. And I would hear so many vendors telling me....oh....we have a KR specific tune. And I'd ask...what is that anyway? And would always get a bunch of mumbo jumbo. It just didn't ring true. So I kept digging.

 

So I had a lot of learning curves to go through; recognizing the passion people have for these cars being one of many. When I go onto something new with the car, (brakes), I'll have to start at zero. But I learn quick. Or I might be so far behind that I think I'm #1

 

 

The scary thing is the face to face with the tuners. I had the car dyno'ed. And the tuner was on me bigtime. Dude.....you need a tune. How are you going to do that, I ask him? What's the first step? First step he says........adjust the MAF transfer. No thanks, I say. He practically laughed at me. But ended up being pissed because he didn't get his tune.

 

And I have no doubt this tuner didn't absolutely believe what he wanted to do was right. Because that's what he's been taught. And it's a tough situation when you are talking to a guy who does this for a living and in your mind you're thinking...dude.....you're wrong. Especially when he's so absolutely sure he's right. And I don't blame him for it.

 

Capt Beyond: the ultimate proof that the KR is setup stock for the tvs........dyno the car before you do it. Bolt the tvs on. Drive it for 20 or so miles and let the computer adjust. Reboot the car a few times. And dyno it again. The a/f ratios will be EXACTLY the same. All sensors and air/fuel capabilities exist in the KR stock for the larger airflow. The computer will handle it because of the programmed MAF tables that Ford built into the tune. The engine gets more air? No problem. The computer handles it....via the MAF transfer tables. But you start, "tricking", that MAF curve, and everything gets goofed up downstream.

 

If the sensors were not large enough to measure what goes into the engine, there would be problems. But the air box and the sensors in the KR are large and capable. Like 800hp capable stock.

 

If you want to lean it out, advance the timing and adjust the fuel map. Then make sure you run good gas. But don't touch the MAF curve.

[Tob]

Where's the reference to the article? Got a link as to who wrote it or where it came from? And aside from the generalities you've mentioned regarding the ProCal "KR" tune vs the ProCal TVS tune, do you have any specifics as to differences in fuel enrichment tables, etc? I'll dig something up and see if I can track Justin down to comment, but I'm pretty sure the two tunes aren't as close as you think.

[BlackShelby]

Where's the reference to the article? Got a link as to who wrote it or where it came from? And aside from the generalities you've mentioned regarding the ProCal "KR" tune vs the ProCal TVS tune, do you have any specifics as to differences in fuel enrichment tables, etc? I'll dig something up and see if I can track Justin down to comment, but I'm pretty sure the two tunes aren't as close as you think.

 

 

 

http:// /showthread.php?3803-Warning-!!-Before-you-change-that-tune-read-this!

 

 

I actually wrote it for another site.(including some ford references) LInk above

 

As for the tune in the KR ver a TVS

 

Just let me know what maps you like to see I can overlay whatever ones you want..

 

The KR tune is actually a little conservative next to the TVS tune but are very close to each other.

 

 

I listed the fuel map TVS on top KR on bottom same with timing map(when comparing timing match the load when comparing the two since the template I need to view each tune is different . )

 

 

 

 

There are some times you will actually need a tune and times you don't need a tune.

 

Some change a tune for power and not because it is a most do item. (not caring about the safety margin)

 

Most will say you do need a tune because they are pushing a tune or don't understand whats in the existing calibration

.

Some tunes will make more HP but the real thing is understanding what is in the tune and how it was tuned.

 

Knowing what is in most of these tunes I suggest when going/choosing to go with a aftermarket tune people really should understand and make sure with the tuner, what the tuner is going to do and why they are doing it.

[terumi71]

In the end, the KR as it sits, doesn't need a tune to bolt on a stock tvs. You start going to a smaller pulley on the tvs, or change the injectors, or change the mass air meter. The mass air sensor and the airbox combined is the mass air meter. You will need to tune for the tvs is you do any of these things. But the KR, as it sits, for a stock tvs w/ 2.72 pulley, has a larger airbox than the 07-09 stock gt500. Same sensor, but larger airbox. If you bought the procal tune for an 07-09 gt500, you would get it as a kit, with the larger airbox. Again, same sensor, but a larger airbox is needed for the 07-09 gt500 procal tune. And the larger airbox that you would get in the procal tune for the 07-09 gt500, you guessed it!......Is the kr airbox.

 

The only reason you would need a tune with a tvs is if you are going to start changing these things. Things like smaller than a 2.72 pulley. Why? Because you MIGHT be exceeding the limit capabilities of the mass air meter. You're going to be close. So in this case you have to change the mass air meter. Different mass air meter means a different MAF curve. Tune required.

 

Changing injectors is obvious as to why might need a tune. Change the mass air meter, and yes, need a tune. It all depends on what you want to do.

 

But for a stock 2.72 pulley tvs on the stock KR, you don't need to tune.

 

Put it this way....if the installed hardware (sensors, etc), are not exceeded, no tune needed. You want to put a smaller pulley on the stock kr blower? No tune needed. Because you are not exceeding the measuring limitations of the installed hardware on the KR.

 

You bolt the tvs on, you go to about 620rwhp. No tune. You want to tweak the fuel map, timing, limiters.....with a tune (if you desire it...not because you need it), then do so. But make sure the tuner knows what you are looking for. Don't let him touch the MAF curve. You want to change the mass air meter, you'll definitely need a tune.

 

Captain Beyond, I don't know if the local mustang mod shop has ever tuned a KR. I would venture to say as a minimum that they don't know it has the larger mass air meter. Just my guess. And even if they have tuned a KR, they are still looking to make money. Anything they can sell you they make money on! So they are not going to say, ok, we're going to upgrade your mass air meter, and charge you for putting the same mass air meter on that you already have! Think about it.

 

It's a lot of information to absorb. I've been working on this for almost a year. In the end, kr owners are getting sold on something they don't need for bolting on a stock tvs blower with the 2.72 pulley. Some things you NEED the tune. Different mass air meter, different injectors. Smaller than a 2.72 pulley on the tvs you might need to because exceeding the limits that the kr can measure.

 

I know I'm wordy. lol. Just ask my wife. But when an FAA Examiner asks me to tell him everything I know about such and such a switch in the cockpit, I'm going to give him an earfull until he says uncle! It's in my nature after being a professional pilot for 25 years and hopefully counting. So hopefully all this wordiness results in an understanding of what is in our kr's, and what we should be shooting for with someone tuning our kr's. When its needed and when its not.

 

Finito! lol

[svtbird91]

Yes. Bolt it on. Done. The car is setup as it sits with all the hardware you need and all the software you need. It is only waiting for the tvs.

 

If you want to do some peripheral stuff, you can do that. But nothing is necessary. The spark plugs are easy to replace. The ngk iridium spark plugs gapped I think at 31 or 32. An L&M 66mm throttle body, with electronics I think is $480. Any tuning would be little things as I mentioned: advance the timing from 18 to 19. Up the rpm limiter maybe 150. Up the torque a little. Address the fuel mapping in some fashion.

 

I AM....going to do this. In time. I will do it exactly as I've described. And a buddy of mine will give me these peripheral tune items (the guy that wrote the article). You are welcome to those peripheral tune items.

 

Fia, my pleasure. As I said before, I get a lot more out of this forum than I put in. I'd say probably most everyone here are more, "car guys", than I am. I always wanted a mustang, true. From my father having one. But never actively pursued it until I bought the SGT and then traded for the KR.

 

But (there's always a but!), when I do want to do something, I dig into it. And I would hear so many vendors telling me....oh....we have a KR specific tune. And I'd ask...what is that anyway? And would always get a bunch of mumbo jumbo. It just didn't ring true. So I kept digging.

 

So I had a lot of learning curves to go through; recognizing the passion people have for these cars being one of many. When I go onto something new with the car, (brakes), I'll have to start at zero. But I learn quick. Or I might be so far behind that I think I'm #1

 

 

The scary thing is the face to face with the tuners. I had the car dyno'ed. And the tuner was on me bigtime. Dude.....you need a tune. How are you going to do that, I ask him? What's the first step? First step he says........adjust the MAF transfer. No thanks, I say. He practically laughed at me. But ended up being pissed because he didn't get his tune.

 

And I have no doubt this tuner didn't absolutely believe what he wanted to do was right. Because that's what he's been taught. And it's a tough situation when you are talking to a guy who does this for a living and in your mind you're thinking...dude.....you're wrong. Especially when he's so absolutely sure he's right. And I don't blame him for it.

 

Capt Beyond: the ultimate proof that the KR is setup stock for the tvs........dyno the car before you do it. Bolt the tvs on. Drive it for 20 or so miles and let the computer adjust. Reboot the car a few times. And dyno it again. The a/f ratios will be EXACTLY the same. All sensors and air/fuel capabilities exist in the KR stock for the larger airflow. The computer will handle it because of the programmed MAF tables that Ford built into the tune. The engine gets more air? No problem. The computer handles it....via the MAF transfer tables. But you start, "tricking", that MAF curve, and everything gets goofed up downstream.

 

If the sensors were not large enough to measure what goes into the engine, there would be problems. But the air box and the sensors in the KR are large and capable. Like 800hp capable stock.

 

If you want to lean it out, advance the timing and adjust the fuel map. Then make sure you run good gas. But don't touch the MAF curve.

 

 

 

Good thread Terumi71 !!!

 

It's nice to see that some like yourself are finally beginning to understand the difference between the correct way of tuning ( the way Ford tunes) and what's been going on with most of the tuners out there who have been tuning these cars. Many who are responsible for drivability issues, part throttle pinging and even blown engines in some cases.

 

Kudos to you for doing your due dillegent research in this most important matter.

[FiaCobra]

Looks like I'll be slapping a TVS on my KR and calling it a day. Glad to see the prices dropping on something this car should have come with in the first place. You want to call it "King of the Road"?...well dammit, give it MORE HP....LOL

[speedyman]

Looks like I'll be slapping a TVS on my KR and calling it a day. Glad to see the prices dropping on something this car should have come with in the first place. You want to call it "King of the Road"?...well dammit, give it MORE HP....LOL

 

 

You will love the TVS on your KR. I've driven an '08(non KR) with the TVS and the FRPP tune. Absolutely awesome power anywhere in the rpm band.

[terumi71]

I'm with you guys. I'm sooo wanting to do this. I will...but I gotta be patient.

 

Did I mention my wife?

 

 

Thanks SVTbird91 for the kind words!

[FiaCobra]

..................Did I mention my wife?

 

 

 

 

Buy her some flowers, or gold earrings or something !!

[68fastback]

Nice thread, Terumi71!!

 

It's great to see correct thinking starting to catch on. Sad that so many tuners out there just don't get it -- but the OEMs and FRPP sure do ...as do folks like Dennis at Tasca.

 

-Dan

[Captain Beyond]

Looks like I'll be slapping a TVS on my KR and calling it a day. Glad to see the prices dropping on something this car should have come with in the first place. You want to call it "King of the Road"?...well dammit, give it MORE HP....LOL

 

 

+1

[Captain Beyond]

Terumi71,

Thanks for the info. :beerchug:

[terumi71]

It's BlackShelby that got me steered right. I fumbled around for months with this stuff. I never could get straight answers. It all sounded like bullshit doubletalk, with everyone starting to talk circles around me. Every time. BlackShelby, with his knowledge, slowed everything down and explained. Then explained again. And again. Typical me...start slow and taper off.

 

BlackShelby is personal friends with Dennis at Tasca. Hell he's personal friends with everyone in racing. Amazing. I spoke with Dennis on the phone and he said, "Do you know who your buddy BlackShelby is?" I said yep!

 

So anyway, plans are set. But I don't think flowers and gold earrings are going to cut it. I think my penance is Prague for a week.

 

[68fastback]

Black Shelby definately rocks!! ;-)

[SGT/SC#0471]

Great thread and great info...thanks for posting...

[terumi71]

68fastback,

 

I couldn't agree more. I've never met a more down to earth, selflessly giving, infinitely more patient person. His ecliptic knowledge of cars is very impressive. When I would ask people about cars and mods, as I said earlier, words would tumble out of their mouth and my head would spin. I felt it was more to impress and sell me than actually help me. Big egos.

 

When kids ask me about what they have to do to be a pilot, I simply to say to them, in order to be a pilot, you have to love to fly. End of discussion. I don't run on and on about Inertial navigation systems, inertial reference systems and the difference between the two, berillium crystals, ocean crossing procedures, coriolis effect, dry adiabatic lapse rates, hypoxia, L/D max equations, energy management in a air to air combat, coffin corners, laminar flow, effect of sunspots on HF communication, and the unending tedious oversight of the federal government and what that means for a pilot operating in a very complex international environment. Blah blah blah.

 

I just say if you want to be a pilot, you've gotta love to fly. And let them lead the conversation from there. I answer their questions slowely and feel I failed if they have the look of a dog looking at a clock. The last thing I want to do is talk circles. But it seems that most all vendors that I've spoken with, both locally and across the country, talk with intimidation and ego. Spinning circles around you of what you need to do to your car. Dog/clock syndrome. And it seems as though they aren't happy until they get, "the look". I talked to one guy here locally who went on and on about how stupid his customers were and how tired he was of them. Yet, these people bring their car to him with the hopes that he will fix/mod their car. They trust him. He didn't seem to be thankful for the business he had. Just pissed at how annoying his customers are.

 

BlackShelby was never any of this. Always available and never condescending. Completely knowledgeable and patient in my never ending, "stupid", questions. Proof once again that people that REALLY know, think that what they know is simple. They have mastered their subject matter. And talk from a position of wisdom rather than ego.

[68fastback]

...great post! ...imo you're very perceptive ...you had me chuckling a couple of times there ...because it's all so true.

 

cheers ..Dan

[shelbypt]

This is a thread that makes this forum well worth reading!! Thanks Terumi!!

[terumi71]

Con Gusto Shelbypt!

 

Either intuitive, or classic middle child syndrome. Gonna ponder that :unsure:

[terumi71]

errr I mean perceptive

[speedyman]

errr I mean perceptive

 

 

Good perspective indeed, excellent thread and read, my thanks to you also. Very thought provoking stuff here.

 

Never liked the idea of manipulating the factory MAF calibration. I've used the HP Tuners software on an '08 Corvette with bolt on mods(LTs and CAI) and never really thought that the changes we made to the MAF table had any positve effective on performance. Had no wide bands at that time.

[terumi71]

Tuning update:

 

BlackShelby tuned my buddies 04 Mach 1. My buddy is a hill climb racer in PA and in his class set every record you can. He probably has some youtube videos under mr evil racing.

 

Specs of the car are new 4.6L Aluminator na engine with the procharger supercharger. My buddy went with the na engine for a reason. Not part of the discussion.

 

BlackShelby, btw, doesn't want a flood of tuning requests. He tuned my buddies car for fun. No charge or anything like that. He just did it. Took him 1.5 hours. Please don't go to BlackShelby to ask for tunes.

 

Here's the point: my buddy had his car tuned locally. My buddy also knows about MAF systems and was wary about having his tuner tune his car. Because as a student of SCT, the tuner only knows to adjust the a/f by adjusting the MAF transfer. And my buddy knew that. But let him do it because they have been working together for years and are friends. So he tuned the car and was having idling issues and hanging throttle issues.

 

BlackShelby said email him the tune. He looked at it, and said the guy did a good job for what he was taught. BlackShelby then spent 1.5 hours building a tune from scratch (it took the local guy over 6 hours to build his). By putting the MAF back to factory and doing whatever else he did. It's his world, not mine.

 

He emailed the tune to my buddy and my buddy installed it. Car ran perfectly. Absolutely perfectly. No more (or less) hp than the tuner, granted. But that wasn't the intention. The car now runs like its from the factory.

 

A couple of things: first, it was real nice to be told how receptive the tuner was to learning about MAF systems. He said basically, gee, this is all new to me and I'm willing to learn. My buddy gave him BlackShelby's tune. So that's a good thing. I'd venture to say there are many tuners out there that would be downright hostile to this stuff. I witnessed it first hand out here in SoCal.

 

Second is the re-enforcement of the previous statements in this thread that we should be real careful about who tunes our cars and what exactly they are doing to them in these tunes. My buddy said BlackShelby looked at the tune for about 3 minutes and found what the local tuner did wrong. And then just elected to build the whole thing from scratch. Very talented guy. Be careful who you have tune your car!

[68fastback]

I can't tell you how pleased I am to see this subject getting aired openly and honestly. In the past anyone disagreeing with conventional tuner wisdom and some realted topics has provoked relentless attacks.

 

Historically, the problem, as I see it, is that modern engine calibration itself is sufficiently opaque that most owners must assume their tuners are using proper methods, especially since owners are at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to deciphering myth from fact, or even determiniing the core questions to ask.

 

I've learned so much over the years from blackshelby -- his knowledge and personal experience is profound -- I guess being a long-reigning pro champion didn't hurt either.

[terumi71]

68 + 1

 

Ahhh. Never mind. That came out all wrong.

[oldlugs]

68 + 1

 

Ahhh. Never mind. That came out all wrong.

 

Freudian slip..?

[68fastback]

Freudian slip..?

 

 

lol -- Mrs. Freud wears those . ;-)