Paging Tob!

[2010KonaBlueGT]

Tob,

 

You have mail (PM).

 

 

Phill

[Tob]

Every question you asked matched what I was scratching my head over during my Whipple/FRPP install. Hopefully the response in my PM helps you!

[GT500NN]

What were the questions? I am doing my Whipple 2.9 install this week. I have of course read your write up Tob (thanks BTW!) along with some other sources. Did 2010KonaBlueGT run into something not yet mentioned? Thanks

[Tob]

There are a few times during the install that you have to try to figure out what hardware you are being asked to use (and in which location), order of operation, and fitting orientation. Phill ran into the exact same issues and had the same line of thinking as I did. If it'll help, I'll cut and paste the relevant portions of our discussion (I don't think Phill would object, as it is all business here)...

 

Phill...

Just a couple of quick ones: I'm using my OE fuel rails because I still haven't ordered the AN fittings for the Shelby fuel rails. The rear bolt on the drivers side...in reading the Inst. it says to use a blah blah blah bolt that I THINK they provided in the kit. I found a gold colored bolt but even it was a hair too long to fit under the SC inlet. I ground the end down a little at a time until I got it to go in and screw in. Then the front bolt sounds like I'm supposed to use one of the (four) allen head bolts that was in the same package with the gold hex head bolt. But for the Pass. side it says to use the OEM fasteners (bolts). Since I used one of the allen bolts on the front drivers end of the rail, am I going to be a bolt short later on down the line? If so, I'll just use a OE bolt for that tab too.

 

On the EGR adaptor plate....it can go on two ways. It is "offset" so one way will mount the EGR higher, the other way will mount it lower. I mocked it up both ways and the EGR *will* mount either way (low or high). I think the difference will be the EGR tube, which I haven't mounted yet and in fact it's being a real bitch to get it snaked in through the wire looms and hoses back there. I took it off so long ago that I don't remember how it was routed. I DID have to cut the bracket short that holds the wire harness back from the SC just like you did even though it doesn't say I have to but it does say on a '11 to put a P-Clip on the loom and use one of the OE bolts to hold it in place.

 

Moi...

Crazy. Both issues you bring up were items of concern for me as well. The rail bolts were a directions/process of elimination situation. The EGR adapter had me carefully studying photos from others that had posted up online.

 

Link to the entire thread...

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/shelby-gt500-150/720728-frpp-whipple-kit-content-install-09-gt500.html

 

IIRC, I used the supplied gold colored bolt at the drivers side rear (cut down - see here) and I used the stock bolts at the other three locations.

 

As to the EGR adapter, here are the money shots...

 

 

 

Note in the second shot above that the cast iron body of the EGR valve is ever so close to the fuel rail. You might want to dress it up so as to minimize any heat transfer to the rail.

 

One last shot that will hopefully help - fitting orientation. I had to scour the web for this as well.

 

 

Good luck Phill!

 

Thanks SO much for that help. I had already pretty much deduced that the EGR adaptor sits so the EGR is lower but basically by realizing the ANGLE of the EGR would reverse if I mounted it the wrong way. I have the EGR tube "in place" (i.e. where I *think* it should go) and was also able to establish that it needed to be lower vs. higher.

 

Now I have another problem. I replaced the OEM exh. manifolds with a pair of Ceramic coated FRPP Shorty headers. The headers have the same male threaded nipple on the right side that the OE exh. man. had on it but it *looks* like they may have put some type of anti-seize on it and the female "nut" doesn't want to go on without some pretty major enticement. I don't force things as I learned a long time ago that forcing anything mechanical USUALLY ends up in disaster. I'm not sure if the fitting doesn't want to go on easy because of the (apparent) anti-seize, the ceramic coating, both of them together, or if I actually have it a RCH off to one side and I am trying to cross-thread it. And then with "all that room" they give you (TONS.....NOT!) it's hard to find a large open end with a short body to turn it with, just in case it's a matter of too tight due to the coating/s.

 

I already pretty much decided to remove the allen head bolt I used on the front/drivers fuel rail mounting tab and just use the OE bolt so I'm good there. I thought maybe the four allen head bolts were supposed to be used for attaching the throttle body to the crusher inlet but the Inst. sheet says to use the OEM bolts....ehhhhh, I think I'll run down to ACE hardware and get a stainless steel button head, or allen head, or SOMETHING other than the cheap looking OE "grey" bolts. I have a polished inlet with a polished TB and they want me to use some gawd ugly OE bolts? Nah, I don't think so. Well, maybe just temp. but unless the four allen head bolts that came don't fit the TB-Inlet, I'll buy a handfull of "flash" and put my own on there.

 

The pic of the fittings is a HUGE help. I just printed the pic out and I'm back on the way out down the shaft to the salt mine.

 

I mention it in my build thread -the EGR tube needs to be put roughly into place BEFORE the blower goes on, otherwise, ARRGHHH! And even though I had the tube in before I laid my blower down, being able to start the threads at both ends was a challenge. You did remove your battery tray for more room, yes (consider it a must!)?

 

Also, I just noticed something I had said when I was installing the tube...

 

It is a little tricky joining the EGR tube at the manifold, at the EGR valve itself, and being able to thread the included fasteners to draw the EGR valve in tight. Once the valve was tight, I tightened the tube up at either end (12"crescent still worked without issue).

 

 

I remember keeping everything loose (nut at manifold, nut at EGR valve, bolts through EGR valve body into adapter) just to get everything started. When I was sure that each thread had started properly, I cinched up the bolts at the EGR valve THEN tightened the tube at each end.

 

Again, good luck!

[GT500NN]

Thanks for sharing the info guys!

[Tob]

I'm still waiting for Phill to chime in and let me know how it went. Hopefully, he was able to get the nut at the bottom of the EGR tube to mate with the welded on fitting on his FRPP shorty headers. It's hard enough to get it on the factory manifolds let alone any added variance with an aftermarket part.

 

GT500NN, when did you get your kit? I ask because I'm curious to see if Whipple has addressed anything I brought up in my thread from last fall - for example, the rear rail bolt on the driver side. It is simply too long.

[2010KonaBlueGT]

I'm still waiting for Phill to chime in and let me know how it went. Hopefully, he was able to get the nut at the bottom of the EGR tube to mate with the welded on fitting on his FRPP shorty headers. It's hard enough to get it on the factory manifolds let alone any added variance with an aftermarket part.

 

 

I just jumped on the computer for a quick second to check my e-mail and I see this. I don't have the time right now to give you more (gotta run to get a haircut, a new Cell Phone that'll better work with the GT500 and hit the IMAX to see "Sucker Punch") but there *is* more. In short, the top (EGR) is going well but the bottom (EGR tube fitting/header nipple) is still trying to fight me. I thought I saw a small set of large jaw/short body wrenches at Harbor Freight the other day when I was in there so I may head past there and see if I can find "a helper".

 

I will be back later this afternoon or early eve. so I'll hit ya up here on the public airways (vs. PM) so all those that are interested can hear/see/read what I'm up against. I might even take a snap or two to try and show you what's what. The nipple/fitting isn't the ONLY issue...the EGR seems to sit a hair low reletive to the mounting holes so I may have to bend the tube a hair or four.

 

Everything on the drivers side is going like clockwork. Other than that ONE fuel rail bolt up under the crusher inlet, it's been a piece of cake (even the dreaded rear corner bolt, which I have a good recommendation for the other guy installing a 2.9L on his car).

 

Oh, and Tob....yes, I DID remove the batt. box and tray for room/access to the EGR/Exh. fitting ( I was one of those ugly kids, not one of those stupid kids)! <grin>

 

 

 

"Talk" to ya later,

Phill Pollard (2010 GT500)

[GT500NN]

I'm still waiting for Phill to chime in and let me know how it went. Hopefully, he was able to get the nut at the bottom of the EGR tube to mate with the welded on fitting on his FRPP shorty headers. It's hard enough to get it on the factory manifolds let alone any added variance with an aftermarket part.

 

GT500NN, when did you get your kit? I ask because I'm curious to see if Whipple has addressed anything I brought up in my thread from last fall - for example, the rear rail bolt on the driver side. It is simply too long.

 

 

Tob, I bought used and it will be here Wednesday. Car was traded in with less then 300 miles and the kit was pulled off. Kit was uninstalled by the original installer and I was insured that 100% of the hardware is there. If It is missing a bolt or two I won't be mad as I saved a good bit over buying new. Kit came from Lethal and was purchased in the summer of 2010 so I doubt it would include any revisions from Whipple if they have indeed made some.

[justindewoody]

PLEASE SAVE YOURSELF THE AGONY AND HOURS OF PULLING YOUR HAIR OUT...by simply installing the fuel rails (including the rear driver's side bolt)...BEFORE you install the blower. I've had 2 Whipple 2.9s and I've done 2 installs. I did it the hard way with my 2010, and I did it the easy way with my 2011. The easy way is to install the fuel rails FIRST!!!! Trust me on this!!!! It is IMPOSSIBLE to get the bolt in there under that friggin' Crusher inlet! Do NOT cut the bolt or shave the bolt to make it shorter. Also, you MUST use Loctite on those 4 fuel rail bolts. They need to be torqued down pretty tight. It's really hard to get it in under the inlet...and it's even harder to get it tight enough! Just trust me on this stuff. I'm a semi-pro and you will thank me when you're finished. I actually had the rear driver's bolt come loose on my 2010 (because I did it the hard way and couldn't get it tight enough). And fuel started to spew everywhere while the motor was running! Big fire hazard. This is the risk you run if you don't do what I'm saying here. I hope this helps. And trust me, this is probably the very best tip anyone could give you when it comes to the Whipple 2.9 install. Good luck!

[Tob]

Do NOT cut the bolt or shave the bolt to make it shorter.

 

Cutting the bolt down still leaves plenty of thread for engagement. And while you shouldn't torque the bolts down more than the factory spec, blue Loctite isn't a bad idea.

 

On edit...thinking it through, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to place a stud in the rearmost rail hole on the driver side. You could bottom the damn thing out if you so desired and all you have to do then is manage to get a nut on there when ready.

[2010KonaBlueGT]

Cutting the bolt down still leaves plenty of thread for engagement. And while you shouldn't torque the bolts down more than the factory spec, blue Loctite isn't a bad idea.

 

On edit...thinking it through, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to place a stud in the rearmost rail hole on the driver side. You could bottom the damn thing out if you so desired and all you have to do then is manage to get a nut on there when ready.

 

Mission accomplished...EGR valve and tube is in and all tightened up.

 

As I said in my earlier post, I had some reluctance to screw the exh. manifold end of the EGR tube in because I wasn't sure if it was just tight from the Cermic coating and/or anti-seize on the nipple or if I was trying to cross thread it. So I got my old EGR tube and practiced on it. Screwed it on one turn, pulled it and looked at the threads. Looked okay. Screwed it on two threads, repeat. I did this until I got it on about 4 threads and it was obvious that the aluminized coating on the FRPP headers is the culprit. You can smell "aluminum" when you're screwing the nut on the nipple. So I went ahead and screwed the EGR end of the tube into the EGR valve and the Exh. man. end onto the exhaust manifold, leaving it slightly loose so there was some 'play' in the assembly.

 

It was obvious that the tube was NOT bent enough at one bend and if I had to do it all over again, I'd pull the tube and put more bend in the LOWEST BEND on the tube. As it was, the EGR mouting holes did not line up with the adaptor holes....not even close. I was able to get a small pick into the front hole and manipulate the rear hole to line up, slide the metal EGR gasket in and screw the rear screw in. I had to leave it slightly loose (or so I found out) so I could rotate the gasket up on the other end and then of course, the front hole was way off (the EGR was "tilted" so the front hole was too high). I used a punch to push the EGR down a little then was able to get a prybar blade between the EGR body and the adaptor plate to push the EGR valve down and get the front hole to line up. I got the front bolt in then torqued both to spec.

 

Once I had the EGR valve mounted I tightened up the EGR end of the tube then the Exh. man. end of the tube (I have a combo wrench the right size, no cresent wrench for me) and all is well.

 

As for the fuel rail bolt: I shaved MAYBE one or two threads off of the end so I'm not at ALL worried about it being too short. Two threads are MAYBE 1/32" of bolt that I took off. As far as putting the fuel rails on first, you have a cross-over tube to contend with and it does NOT bend. I suppose you could put the drivers side on before the SC unit but you can NOT put both sides on for the fuel cross-over hose/tube/line. I was also able to get a box end wrench in on the bolt and get it PLENTY tight so I doubt very much that it will come loose. I will keep a eye on it though, just in case. As for the other 3 fuel rail bolts, I put them in and torqued them to factory spec just like they were when I removed them and they weren't loose then so I don't see ANY reason they would need lock-tite now. They didn't have any on from the factory and they were all tight when I pulled them out.

 

If I were to do the job over again, I'd still put the SC on before the fuel rail/s. It was NOT that big of a deal to grind a skosh off of the end of the bolt.

 

I do have ONE very hand hint for the guy that's going to install his Whipple 2.9L. Before you put the SC on the manifold, pull the by-pass valve hose AT THE SUPERCHARGER. It has a clamp on the valve end so you can not easily pull it from the valve but it slips right off of the vacuum/boost souce. That will allow you EASY access to the rear corner bolt on the drivers side that so many people have reported nightmares over. With the hose out of the way (just pull it back when you go after that bolt) you can see the rear bolt and you can EASILY get a 12 point box end wrench on it. You can not even SEE it with the by-pass valve hose on the SC nipple....with it off, you can get a standard (I used a Snap-on combo (box/open end) wrench on it.) The "trick" would be to use a TWELVE POINT wrench, not a SIX POINT wrench. Then after you get the bolt tight and the rest torqued, spritz a dab of WD-40 in the end of the hose and use a pair of needle nose pliers to push it back on the vac/boost nipple.

 

I've seen guys take wrenches and heat/bend them, weld extensions on them, etc. etc. etc....if you take my hint, NONE of that is needed.

 

ALSO: Pay attention to Tob's pic of the fittings on the inlet. That was invalueable...because you MUST put the angled nipple in before you put the other two in or you can't turn it because the "L" will hit the other two fittings (my point is, put the 90d fitting in FIRST).

 

Well, back to the Salt Mine....I should have her smokin' in a couple of hours if everything else goes according to plan. All I need to do it mount the Throttle Body and Zip tube, put the fuel pump relay back in, charge the fuel rail to check for leaks and FIRE IN THE HOLE! Oh yeah, I gotta put that damn battery tray and battery back in there too! (that's another story in itself!).

 

 

 

Thanks for all the help/adice guys/gals,

Phill Pollard

[GT500NN]

I do have ONE very hand hint for the guy that's going to install his Whipple 2.9L. Before you put the SC on the manifold, pull the by-pass valve hose AT THE SUPERCHARGER. It has a clamp on the valve end so you can not easily pull it from the valve but it slips right off of the vacuum/boost souce. That will allow you EASY access to the rear corner bolt on the drivers side that so many people have reported nightmares over. With the hose out of the way (just pull it back when you go after that bolt) you can see the rear bolt and you can EASILY get a 12 point box end wrench on it. You can not even SEE it with the by-pass valve hose on the SC nipple....with it off, you can get a standard (I used a Snap-on combo (box/open end) wrench on it.) The "trick" would be to use a TWELVE POINT wrench, not a SIX POINT wrench. Then after you get the bolt tight and the rest torqued, spritz a dab of WD-40 in the end of the hose and use a pair of needle nose pliers to push it back on the vac/boost nipple.

 

I've seen guys take wrenches and heat/bend them, weld extensions on them, etc. etc. etc....if you take my hint, NONE of that is needed.

 

ALSO: Pay attention to Tob's pic of the fittings on the inlet. That was invalueable...because you MUST put the angled nipple in before you put the other two in or you can't turn it because the "L" will hit the other two fittings (my point is, put the 90d fitting in FIRST).

 

 

 

All points noted. After reading all of the install threads the driver's side back bolt was of course the one issue I was most worried about. Once I get to that point of the install I will make sure to come back and read this again. Thanks for the advice Phil.

[2010KonaBlueGT]

All points noted. After reading all of the install threads the driver's side back bolt was of course the one issue I was most worried about. Once I get to that point of the install I will make sure to come back and read this again. Thanks for the advice Phil.

 

 

 

I'm SO pissed at myself. Here's another tip for you.

 

I spent all day yesterday (at LEAST 3 hours) looking for the gasket for the Throttle body so I could complete my install. That's all I have to do, put the TB on and the inlet tube (air box is already in place). I looked through every drawer in my Roll Cab, every shelf in my garage, every wall that I hang things on, in the car, in the trunk, in the boxes everything comes in....3 hours and I couldn't find it.

 

I sat down at the computer this mourning and looked over at my window shelf and noticed the envelope all of the Whipple literature comes in......could it be? NAHHHHH! I Looked in the envelope and FUG ME! There's my gasket.

 

Hint # 3: Put the gasket in the box with the Throttle Body so you won't forget where the F*CK you put it!

 

On the plus side, my FR3 Handling Pack arrived by Truck! I was told it would ship on FOUR 30 (April 30) but it shipped on 3/30 so I got it in time to complete my car without putting it on the road without the lowering kit!

 

I'm so happy I could just shit....oh, wait a second...I think I already did!

 

 

Man, it's hell gettin' old,

Phill Pollard

[GT500NN]

I'm SO pissed at myself. Here's another tip for you.

 

I spent all day yesterday (at LEAST 3 hours) looking for the gasket for the Throttle body so I could complete my install. That's all I have to do, put the TB on and the inlet tube (air box is already in place). I looked through every drawer in my Roll Cab, every shelf in my garage, every wall that I hang things on, in the car, in the trunk, in the boxes everything comes in....3 hours and I couldn't find it.

 

I sat down at the computer this mourning and looked over at my window shelf and noticed the envelope all of the Whipple literature comes in......could it be? NAHHHHH! I Looked in the envelope and FUG ME! There's my gasket.

 

Hint # 3: Put the gasket in the box with the Throttle Body so you won't forget where the F*CK you put it!

 

On the plus side, my FR3 Handling Pack arrived by Truck! I was told it would ship on FOUR 30 (April 30) but it shipped on 3/30 so I got it in time to complete my car without putting it on the road without the lowering kit!

 

I'm so happy I could just shit....oh, wait a second...I think I already did!

 

 

Man, it's hell gettin' old,

Phill Pollard

 

 

Phil, I do stuff like that all the time. I actualy got the Lethal Whipple kit which doesn't come with a TB gasket. I get to make my own with some red silicone!

 

On a side note, I got my AFCO Dual Fan H/E installed tonight. Install went great. Didn't run into a single problem. Blower kit will be here tomorrow.

 

Neal

[GT500NN]

Thanks for all the tips guys. Tore everything down last night. Woke up early this morning and started the install. The SC bolt under the inlet took me less than 15 minutes. Really wasn't bad at all. I had no problems with clearance between the actuator and the firewall. Guess they installed my motor forward on the mounts from the factory.

 

Tob - Special thanks on the fuel rail bolt. I looked close at your pic with the proper length, cut a spare bolt I had laying around, and slide it right in there! Again, thanks for the write up as without it I could easily see this install taking 2-3 more hours than it did.

 

The only issue that held me up was getting the rear injector under the inlet installed and clipped into the fuel rail. Once I figure it out I could probably do it again in no time!

 

I am sure you guys know what one of these looks like already but here are my pics!

 

 

 

 

 

[Tob]

I used black silicone instead of the paper gasket that was supplied along with the FRPP TB.

 

Speaking of which, is that the stock TB I see on there Neal? And your tune...was it an SCT/Lund tune or was it from Justin? I'm curious as to the idle speed when hot (I'm almost at 1,000 rpm warm).

 

The only change I'd like to make is to gut the cats (I'd do it to a spare X-pipe). I don't like the idea of a failed cat causing severe engine damage (I'll probably install a boost gauge and keep a close eye on it) but FRPP doesn't offer a "catless" tune.

 

Good to see you are happy with it. I'm sitting on an AFCO H/E as well. I plan on whipping a bracket up that I can weld to the bumper which would allow threading in an eye so that I can pull the car if it ever dies (knock on wood) and I'd like to have it ready for when the H/E goes in. We'll see how that goes...

 

Tob

[GT500NN]

I used black silicone instead of the paper gasket that was supplied along with the FRPP TB.

 

Speaking of which, is that the stock TB I see on there Neal? And your tune...was it an SCT/Lund tune or was it from Justin? I'm curious as to the idle speed when hot (I'm almost at 1,000 rpm warm).

 

The only change I'd like to make is to gut the cats (I'd do it to a spare X-pipe). I don't like the idea of a failed cat causing severe engine damage (I'll probably install a boost gauge and keep a close eye on it) but FRPP doesn't offer a "catless" tune.

 

Good to see you are happy with it. I'm sitting on an AFCO H/E as well. I plan on whipping a bracket up that I can weld to the bumper which would allow threading in an eye so that I can pull the car if it ever dies (knock on wood) and I'd like to have it ready for when the H/E goes in. We'll see how that goes...

 

Tob

 

 

Hey Tob. Sorry it took so long to respond. Clutch went out after three dyno pulls and 1 pass down the strip! Finally got a new clutch installed. Picked it up last week and am in break in stage right now.

 

I ended up using black silicone on the TB. Seems to be working fine. Yes, stock TB for now. Tune is SCT from Lund. Idle speed when warm is right around 900 rpm.

 

Next month I will be adding a L&M 72mm TB, 3.00" Pulley, and getting a retune from Lund. Hope to make 700rwhp!

[Tob]

Neal, did you have the early or the improved "later" clutch (that the first TSB or so used as well)? And what clutch did you slip in its place?

 

Hope you are enjoying that blower!

 

Tob

[GT500NN]

Mine is a late production 09 (November) so it had the early revised clutch and flywheel. It lasted 21k. I went with the revised 2010+ kit and flywheel that they are using in the most recent TSB. Was able to find a dealer that took care of it free of charge under the TSB so it didn't make sense spend the extra yet. When it goes, and I know it will, I will slip in the RXT.

 

BTW, the 2010+ kit is awesome compared to the older clutch. Zero pedal effort, no chatter, and zero gear turnover noise. We will see how long it lasts!