DubbsFaris Posted March 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Let me clarify my posts from several weeks or months ago- The hangars in fact dont have anything to do with the problem, they are guides to hold the rear assembly in place, but are not designed to keep the mid pipes from twisting at the joints under torque, but as I have now found out, it is a consistancy issue with the mid pipes shifting under torque. This didnt happen on the prototypes, and not all the 350s have the problem, so you tell me, is it a problem with design, or a problem with manufacture if some of them are coming out right and some arent? I will say this, Shelby could have ignored my couple of issues, but in fact, they have actually called my local dealer to help fix another problem I had without me even asking them. Thats pretty darn good service. That said, Im not out to sway your opinion, as it sounds like your mind is made up. I just want to make sure anyone reading about these issues gets both sides. Nothing against you Tob, I just dont agree with you on this, and the purpose of my threads here arent to figure out WHO did what wrong, but to merely identify issues as they come up, figure out if they are reoccuring issues, isolated cases, or something totally diferent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 the purpose of my threads here arent to figure out WHO did what wrong, but to merely identify issues as they come up, figure out if they are reoccuring issues, isolated cases, or something totally diferent. What the hell kind of lawyer are you anyway?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubbsFaris Posted March 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Im not a lawyer, Im a highway contractor, but hey, knowledge is power! My biggest lesson out of law school was learning I DIDNT want to be a lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tob Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 SA didnt design the exhaust, Borla did, so fingerpointing should be done towards the correct designers of this. That statement is why I responded. The exhaust system isn't available from Borla for sale to the general public on its own. http://www.borla.com/products/search.aspx?keyword=Shelby%20GT350%20exhaust Shelby American lists the system as "Shelby/Borla Unique Exhaust" within an available pdf file. Fair to say that the exhaust system, at least post-converter, is not stock and that at least a portion of it was manufactured by Borla Performance Industries for installation on Shelby's GT350. Agreed? That said, at what point Shelby "invited" Borla into their upcoming GT350 program, I cannot provide. But they did. Due to the nature of the GT350 rear fascia and the will to provide a center outlet exhaust, someone had to provide dimensional clearance numbers (at the very least). In fact, it appears that at some point of the prototype/final design phase, someone decided that the system necessitated the inclusion of an insulated heat wrap where the tailpipe nears the fascia, as evidenced from the following shot of Tony's underside - if you will. RWJon's And regardless of the long standing relationship between Alex Borla and Mr Shelby himself, I'd venture to guess that this project between the two started with (at a minimum) a memorandum of understanding, prototype work (probably with shared input) that required mention of materials, tubing diameters, bend type, stock hanger location requirements, etc. This, in addition to subsequent legal contracts for delivery, payment, etc. I can guarantee that within these legal documents, there is a clear understanding that Shelby will pay Borla for timely delivery of a certain quantity of systems and that they will match an agreed upon list of specifications. Were Borla to fail to perform and thus breach the terms of their agreement (ie supplied exhaust systems that do not meet the agreed upon specifications) Shelby could then resort to payment refusal (etc) as specified within the contract. For brevity's sake, let's assume that the two parties would simply "work together" to resolve the issue and therefore change the specification to address the issue. That appears to be the situation (that they are working together)... The issue is not the pipes or design. We have a new clamp from the manufacture with a different specification we are trying now... Still working with the vendor on engineering. From this thread. DF, I work for a GC in commercial construction. In my capacity, I'm handed spec books and a set of drawings and expected to complete any number of projects. Many times, I don't get the opportunity to offer input that engineering can consider. So I build what I'm asked and paid to do - regardless of my thoughts on the final product. So when I see statements like yours regarding "finger pointing" or from the above thread I linked that "When you get to the end of the day, I wish Borla would have put out a better product for fit...(from here)" my ears perk up. The party contracted to do the work doesn't always get the opportunity to provide design feedback/input which usually results in a better product. So when an issue results after project completion that could have been avoided were the client to accept design related suggestions, "I told you so" comes to mind. In this case, it appears that the relationship between the two is rather healthy. Product specification issues are being addressed, just as they should be. Tob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubbsFaris Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Yeah, your last post is well considered and put together. I fully agree with your conclusion on being a contractor, and building to specs of a plan, and not having it come out right. Happens all the time in our business, and now I see why you draw the conclusions that you do in this topic. I didnt look at it from that perspective, possibly because I have a little more insight to what is going on, only because I have a car with the issue. That said, without badmouthing either Shelby or Borla, until something goes into production, you never quite know what problems may arise, and we have one here that both Borla and Shelby are working out, or in fact, I think have worked out. Now its just a matter of getting the parts to the owners, which I understand is being done at this very time. Its good to see that regardless of where the fault of the pipes lay, everyone is working together to make the corrections for making it right. I think in another couple weeks, it will be a past issue with the first cars out, and non-issue for anyone getting their cars after mid-March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSGT Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Yeah, your last post is well considered and put together. I fully agree with your conclusion on being a contractor, and building to specs of a plan, and not having it come out right. Happens all the time in our business, and now I see why you draw the conclusions that you do in this topic. I didnt look at it from that perspective, possibly because I have a little more insight to what is going on, only because I have a car with the issue. That said, without badmouthing either Shelby or Borla, until something goes into production, you never quite know what problems may arise, and we have one here that both Borla and Shelby are working out, or in fact, I think have worked out. Now its just a matter of getting the parts to the owners, which I understand is being done at this very time. Its good to see that regardless of where the fault of the pipes lay, everyone is working together to make the corrections for making it right. I think in another couple weeks, it will be a past issue with the first cars out, and non-issue for anyone getting their cars after mid-March. Warren, Interesting. Can you elaborate? First I've heard or seen of this. Thanks, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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