Back from my vacation.

[JWG223]

When I purchased my GT500 I was also debating getting a used Z06. The performance of the Z06 just amazes me....lightweight rocket that handles amazingly. BUT.....I am a Mustang guy...always have been. I admire and love the look of the new vettes. Best friend has a beautiful white C6 that he is absolutely smitten with....just as smitten as I am with my GT500. My wife and I are thinking Kids in the next couple of years so the 2 seater was out. To add to that the Corvette would scrape every time I pulled into a driveway....and I cant stand that sound. LIke finger nails on a chalk board.

 

Enjoy your Z06...you have a serious machine and a good looking one at that.

 

Shelby does seem to get more attention and has a distinct history attached to it....part of the reason I love it.

 

Two each his own. One is not better than the other....just a different decision for each person

 

 

Thanks!

 

I do love the look of the Shelby. Ford really nailed the styling with the SVT package especially.

[darthracer777]

Well, I was originally going to wait to post pix of the car, but I figured I might as well post pix of the whole process.

 

Here is where I left off...

http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php?/topic/60521-2011-gt500-tops-the-vette/page__st__60__p__1033442#entry1033442

 

 

...here is where I am now:

 

 

Congrats on your new car. I bought an '11 GT500 (2800 miles) from a guy who had VMP do extensive engine & exhaust mods. It dynoed at 688 RWHP, which yields ~ 800+ flywheel HP. And, the best thing about it.....I only paid 46K for the car---including the mods! So, I have a car making more HP than a super snake, but for 30K less! :happy feet: The car is a beast. The car looks exactly like another poster in this thread---it's black with red stripes. My 'Sith' car....LOL. See, you can buy a Shelby for decent price that'll whip Z06s & ZR1s. :D

 

If you ever get up to OKC or Wichita, we can take the cars to the local dragstrip and run a best 2 out of 3. I'll be using slicks, of course.

[JWG223]

Congrats on your new car. I bought an '11 GT500 (2800 miles) from a guy who had VMP do extensive engine & exhaust mods. It dynoed at 688 RWHP, which yields ~ 800+ flywheel HP. And, the best thing about it.....I only paid 46K for the car---including the mods! So, I have a car making more HP than a super snake, but for 30K less! :happy feet: The car is a beast. The car looks exactly like another poster in this thread---it's black with red stripes. My 'Sith' car....LOL. See, you can buy a Shelby for decent price that'll whip Z06s & ZR1s. :D

 

If you ever get up to OKC or Wichita, we can take the cars to the local dragstrip and run a best 2 out of 3. I'll be using slicks, of course.

 

 

Very cool, but comparing a pre-owned/modded shelby's price to a new 'vette special ordered is a bit slanted, don't you think?

 

What have you run with it in the 1/4 so far?

[darthracer777]

Very cool, but comparing a pre-owned/modded shelby's price to a new 'vette special ordered is a bit slanted, don't you think?

 

What have you run with it in the 1/4 so far?

 

 

Slanted? Heck no. My point is that you can buy Shelby at a resonable price that is very, very stout. You don't have to spend 60K plus to have a 'decent' ride.

 

No, I haven't had it to the drags yet. I just bought it in late November. Local dragstrips should be open in March or April. I'll have the car in full 'drag mode' when I do take it to the track.

 

However, it won't be my primary drag vehicle. My Probe is that car. I'll take the Shelby to a few special events this year, and that's it.

[JWG223]

Slanted? Heck no. My point is that you can buy Shelby at a resonable price that is very, very stout. You don't have to spend 60K plus to have a 'decent' ride.

 

No, I haven't had it to the drags yet. I just bought it in late November. Local dragstrips should be open in March or April. I'll have the car in full 'drag mode' when I do take it to the track.

 

However, it won't be my primary drag vehicle. My Probe is that car. I'll take the Shelby to a few special events this year, and that's it.

 

 

Never said the Shelby wasn't a decent car, it's a great car. It's just not a sports car, which is what I wanted.

 

I DD a G20. It works, lol.

[darthracer777]

Never said the Shelby wasn't a decent car, it's a great car. It's just not a sports car, which is what I wanted.

 

I DD a G20. It works, lol.

 

 

Well, yes, you are technically correct, but the 'stang has been raced in SCCA events since the 60s. It is considered a 'sport car' in series like that one. In fact, over the years, it has done very well as a 'sport car'. So, it maybe it just comes down to semantics. The 'stang can be a drag car or a sport car---which I think Carroll Shelby intended.

[Ezareth]

:beatdeadhorse:

[JWG223]

Well, yes, you are technically correct, but the 'stang has been raced in SCCA events since the 60s. It is considered a 'sport car' in series like that one. In fact, over the years, it has done very well as a 'sport car'. So, it maybe it just comes down to semantics. The 'stang can be a drag car or a sport car---which I think Carroll Shelby intended.

 

Dead-horse, but why not?

 

I think the GT500 is a muscle car. It has 56/44 weight distribution, 4 sears, narrow tires and rwd, a solid rear axle, etc.

 

The corvette has 50/50, 2 seats, wide tires and rwd, and IRS.

 

The performance of both cars on the track with corners tells the rest of the tale. Even the Grand Sport (which the GT500 compares with VERY WELL! at the drag-strip) handily trumps the car at VIR.

 

I know you will quote the Ford SVT teams testing, etc. etc., but noone has even come close to backing that up. The 2010 Lightning Lap test had the 2011 GT500 SVT running 3:04.XX

 

With the kind of power the GT500 is putting down, that is a muscle-car showing, not a sports-car.

 

This is not at all to take away from the GT500, but just to show that it is not a sports car. It's a muscle car, and that I use the term to performance attributes.

 

 

*The Boss 302 Leguna Seca may well blurr the lines, as the 5.4L Cobra R did.

[Ezareth]

Dead-horse, but why not?

 

I think the GT500 is a muscle car. It has 56/44 weight distribution, 4 sears, narrow tires and rwd, a solid rear axle, etc.

 

The corvette has 50/50, 2 seats, wide tires and rwd, and IRS.

 

The performance of both cars on the track with corners tells the rest of the tale. Even the Grand Sport (which the GT500 compares with VERY WELL! at the drag-strip) handily trumps the car at VIR.

 

I know you will quote the Ford SVT teams testing, etc. etc., but noone has even come close to backing that up. The 2010 Lightning Lap test had the 2011 GT500 SVT running 3:04.XX

 

With the kind of power the GT500 is putting down, that is a muscle-car showing, not a sports-car.

 

This is not at all to take away from the GT500, but just to show that it is not a sports car. It's a muscle car, and that I use the term to performance attributes.

 

 

*The Boss 302 Leguna Seca may well blurr the lines, as the 5.4L Cobra R did.

 

 

If it makes you happy thinking of the GT500 as a muscle car and not a sports car good for you since you'll be driving a Vette. I could tell you I think of a Vette as a poor old man's Ferrari but that doesn't change what you think of it nor should it.

 

I happen to think of my GT500 as a hybrid of both sport and muscle. Cutting weight, improving handling and suspension are not things you typically do to muscle cars. Considering there are several "Sports Cars" that get thrashed around the track by the '11 GT500, and more than a few "muscle" cars that get destroyed at the strip I don't think the distinction matters.

 

Professional lap times at tracks halfways across the globe don't concern me either since no one here is going to be seeing those numbers.

 

What matters to me is I have a car that fits my style and image, can hold its own against anything I'm likely to see on the road, and is comfortable and enjoyable to drive in.

 

To each his own, this horse isn't showing any signs of life.

[Burnin4]

I've owned 2 C6Z06's, including one of the fastest ones in the country. As much as I loved my Z's, I am loving this Shelby even more. The Z is more of a sports car, faster, and handles a little better, but the ride is very rough, interior pails in comparison to my 11 GT500, and they are dime a dozen. I also hated the corvette stigmatism, gold chains/hairy chest, as well as the majority of the corvette owners are old, haha!

 

I have bad news for you.....the t6060 tranny in the Z is also going to GRIND. if you shift hard/fast from 1st to 2nd you will get a grind every time, sorry. I made 100+ pass's down the dragstrip in my Z's, so I know.

 

For me, the Shelby is much more fun to drive, rides better, sounds better, and looks better (subjective). It's also easier to make power with the Shelby's, a pulley + tune will gain almost 100whp for less than $700. Shelby's also hold their value much better. I bought my 08 1LZ brand new for 66k, sold it for 47k 2 years later. Also, LS7's bite the dust everyday, they die miserable deaths due to dropped valves, crappy pistons, and crappy rocker arms/valve springs. Oh, and uh one last thing....You will have NO WARRANTY if you plan to modify or tune your Z, Chevrolet is looking for any reason to deny warranty claims on their products.

 

Again, the C6Z is an amazing car, but I couldnt be happier owning my 11 GT500.

[Cdvision]

I think the GT500 is a muscle car. It has 56/44 weight distribution, 4 sears, narrow tires and rwd, a solid rear axle, etc.

 

The corvette has 50/50, 2 seats, wide tires and rwd, and IRS.

 

 

.....and don't forget the hi-tech leaf spring suspension and pushrod engine in the Vette. Sorry I couldn't resist. I don't really care what the technology is as long as it gets the job done.

[JWG223]

If it makes you happy thinking of the GT500 as a muscle car and not a sports car good for you since you'll be driving a Vette. I could tell you I think of a Vette as a poor old man's Ferrari but that doesn't change what you think of it nor should it.

 

I happen to think of my GT500 as a hybrid of both sport and muscle. Cutting weight, improving handling and suspension are not things you typically do to muscle cars. Considering there are several "Sports Cars" that get thrashed around the track by the '11 GT500, and more than a few "muscle" cars that get destroyed at the strip I don't think the distinction matters.

 

Professional lap times at tracks halfways across the globe don't concern me either since no one here is going to be seeing those numbers.

 

What matters to me is I have a car that fits my style and image, can hold its own against anything I'm likely to see on the road, and is comfortable and enjoyable to drive in.

 

To each his own, this horse isn't showing any signs of life.

 

The 'vette is a poor man's ferrari, but then, I'm a poor man, lol.

 

The GT500 weighs more than any other production mustang. I wouldn't say "weight was cut". That would be the Boss Leguna Seca. Just because Ford finally ditched the cast-iron engine block doesn't make the car a hybrid. It just means it is now using a block made of the same material as the other mustangs.

 

What you said in bold (added) nailed it I think!

 

I've owned 2 C6Z06's, including one of the fastest ones in the country. As much as I loved my Z's, I am loving this Shelby even more. The Z is more of a sports car, faster, and handles a little better, but the ride is very rough, interior pails in comparison to my 11 GT500, and they are dime a dozen. I also hated the corvette stigmatism, gold chains/hairy chest, as well as the majority of the corvette owners are old, haha!

 

I have bad news for you.....the t6060 tranny in the Z is also going to GRIND. if you shift hard/fast from 1st to 2nd you will get a grind every time, sorry. I made 100+ pass's down the dragstrip in my Z's, so I know.

 

For me, the Shelby is much more fun to drive, rides better, sounds better, and looks better (subjective). It's also easier to make power with the Shelby's, a pulley + tune will gain almost 100whp for less than $700. Shelby's also hold their value much better. I bought my 08 1LZ brand new for 66k, sold it for 47k 2 years later. Also, LS7's bite the dust everyday, they die miserable deaths due to dropped valves, crappy pistons, and crappy rocker arms/valve springs. Oh, and uh one last thing....You will have NO WARRANTY if you plan to modify or tune your Z, Chevrolet is looking for any reason to deny warranty claims on their products.

 

Again, the C6Z is an amazing car, but I couldnt be happier owning my 11 GT500.

 

 

Neither the mustang nor the corvette have a social image that I could ever be proud of, but I bought the car because of how I liked it, not how others would like me for having it.

 

LS7's have had a few issues, but almost inevitably, it comes to light that they were modded. Or they got a bad batch of rocker-arms that haven't been in circulation for years (since 2007). Valve-springs very rarely go bad, but any valve-spring can.

 

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=300296

 

This is an Enzo. It's engine died. That is a car that costs more than most people's houses, and entire filled garages are worth. If this is the ONLY enzo that has blown an engine, it still represents a failure rate of 0.25%. However, reading the thread shows that the failure rate is not that low. If the engine in an Enzo can suffer this fate, anything can, however, the LS7 has more than a 1-year warranty, lol.

 

Usually if an LS7 dies, it is because of the exhaust-valve breaking. Which really is still pretty rare. Rare enough that the Z06 was rated the second most reliable sports car for 2010, right behind the Porsche by a very small margin. When you consider that there are people who are driving instructors that have never seen an LS7 die at the track, it's not like it happens to many at all.

 

For that matter, here is a quote from Bill Dearborn (Track Instructor):

Over the last 19 years I have spent a lot of time at the track and have seen my share of engine failures. However, I haven't seen any engine failures on C6 Z06s...

 

Have they occured? Sure, but if a track instructor, who is very active in the corvette community, has not seen one, then they must not happen every day.

 

That is why I bought the car. It needs no mods. I plan on leaving it 100% stock except for a wrap, and some tint. My 2001 WS6 stayed stock for the 3+ years I owned it, so I don't think I will have a problem being content with a model of car that has run 10's show-room stock before.

 

The 2008 Z's had different syncro's than the 2009's and again the 2011's. Two revisions took place since you owned yours.

 

I compared interiors on the two cars and the GT500's is much more "high-rent" (better quality materials/etc.) However, the 'vette's interior is layed out much better for me. Shifter location, and DEFINITELY shifter feel are superior. It feels like a cock-pit. Then, I am biased. My first car ever was a '93 Crown Vic, and now anything with a straight/flat dash reminds me of that car. Yes, even the BMW M3 screams "Crown vic" to me because there is no "wrap" or curve to the dash like in the 370Z or 'vette (I really like the 370Z's interior better than any other car under 100K that I have sat in). Say what you want, but interior is almost in the area of personal preference except that I freely admit and agree that the GT500 uses nicer materials. The 'vette's isn't that bad, though, comparatively. The main thing I liked about the GT500 better was that the leather the seats are made of seem more durable, but that's just initial impression based on touching them, and the alcantra is a very nice touch!

[JWG223]

.....and don't forget the hi-tech leaf spring suspension and pushrod engine in the Vette. Sorry I couldn't resist. I don't really care what the technology is as long as it gets the job done.

 

 

Yes, the 'vette does have some "hold-overs". I actually think the pushrod engine is superior, compared to almost any other N/A V8 engine on the road today in a non-limited production car. The only V8's that out-power it are the M156 (barely) and M159, and those engines cost about 300% what an LS7 does, weigh nearly the same, and get about the same economy, while putting down slightly higher numbers. They are completely awesome engines, though, and Benz was given the accolades for it.

 

The transverse leaf-spring suspension works well, but coil-overs work better. GM dropped the ball there, I think.

 

The point I was making was that the GT500 has none of the attributes of a sports car. It handles well, yes, no doubt. However, it is not in the same league as the GT-R, the Z06, 911 TT, and other cars with similar horsepower figures when the road begins to wind.

[Ezareth]

The 'vette is a poor man's ferrari, but then, I'm a poor man, lol.

 

The GT500 weighs more than any other production mustang. I wouldn't say "weight was cut". That would be the Boss Leguna Seca. Just because Ford finally ditched the cast-iron engine block doesn't make the car a hybrid. It just means it is now using a block made of the same material as the other mustangs.

 

What you said in bold (added) nailed it I think!

 

 

You forgot the "old" in there.

 

The GT500 weighs more than any other production mustang because it has a supercharged 5.4 liter engine with all of the accompanying baggage that entails.

 

Yes, the 'vette does have some "hold-overs". I actually think the pushrod engine is superior, compared to almost any other N/A V8 engine on the road today in a non-limited production car. The only V8's that out-power it are the M156 (barely) and M159, and those engines cost about 300% what an LS7 does, weigh nearly the same, and get about the same economy, while putting down slightly higher numbers. They are completely awesome engines, though, and Benz was given the accolades for it.

 

The transverse leaf-spring suspension works well, but coil-overs work better. GM dropped the ball there, I think.

 

The point I was making was that the GT500 has none of the attributes of a sports car. It handles well, yes, no doubt. However, it is not in the same league as the GT-R, the Z06, 911 TT, and other cars with similar horsepower figures when the road begins to wind.

 

You seem to be trying to make an older Technology that GM perfected fit your preference on one hand yet handidly discount the same thing that Ford perfected( SRA) on the other hand.

 

And those cars you listed cost quite a bit more than a GT500 so of course it isn't going to be in the same league. Of couse a Z06 isn't in the same "league" as a 911 TT either.

[darthracer777]

I like Ferraris, but my attitude toward them is the same as Carroll Shelby's.....beat the heck out of them if you can. Carroll proved that American iron can beat the European iron. This 'vette/stang debate-battle is interesting, but I think folks who buy American performance products should stick toegther in the ongoing battle against the Europeans & Asians. You can't beat the rumbling sound of an American V8 (and V10, if you count the Viper).

[JWG223]

You forgot the "old" in there.

 

The GT500 weighs more than any other production mustang because it has a supercharged 5.4 liter engine with all of the accompanying baggage that entails.

 

 

 

You seem to be trying to make an older Technology that GM perfected fit your preference on one hand yet handidly discount the same thing that Ford perfected( SRA) on the other hand.

 

And those cars you listed cost quite a bit more than a GT500 so of course it isn't going to be in the same league. Of couse a Z06 isn't in the same "league" as a 911 TT either.

 

 

 

Well, what do you want me to compare the GT500 to? It has more horsepower than anything else in its price range. It's not fair to compare it to a 370Z on the track. I could compare it to the CTS-V Coupe, though, using 2011 LL times. Which although it has nearly identical horsepower, weighs about 400# more and is still within .2 seconds of the GT500 (The Sedan version, same weight almost, same power, from 2008 was a ringer for the GT500 at 3:04.

 

That is as close as I can get comparing a car with similar power/cost.

 

It shows the weak-point of the GT500--suspension. The CTS-V gets away with another 400# of pork while turning nearly, if not identical times through the twisties with equal power on tap.

 

It is frustrating that noone can come within 5 seconds of the time SVT claimed (2:58.XX)

 

Ford has indeed perfected the SRA--but why? The IRS setup is a much better system. Even the half-ass version the 'vette employs (which irks me, why couldn't they just do it "right"?)

 

I wonder what the median age of GT500 owners is compared to Z06 owners, regarding your "old" comment. I think that has more to do with cost/affordability than anything. Most young people are worrying with a kid/wife/whatever else than a $50-80K car.

[JWG223]

I like Ferraris, but my attitude toward them is the same as Carroll Shelby's.....beat the heck out of them if you can. Carroll proved that American iron can beat the European iron. This 'vette/stang debate-battle is interesting, but I think folks who buy American performance products should stick toegther in the ongoing battle against the Europeans & Asians. You can't beat the rumbling sound of an American V8 (and V10, if you count the Viper).

 

 

All well and good, and I respect mustang owners as much as any other car owner (really...it's a car. It's not going to make me treat you any different. I could care less what you drive. "you" being used collectively here.).

 

However, without people like us poking each other in the eye, there would be no reason for Chevy and Ford to keep trying to 1-up each other. If I simply said "oh, a mustang, it's as good as my corvette" and you said "oh, a corvette, it's as good as my mustang", then there would be no impetus for making either car better.

 

Competition purifies the breed, whether muscle, sport, or SUV.

 

As to Ferrari, I love them, they are rolling works of art. I cannot afford one, probably never will, and that's ok. I am also a hammer/anvil type of person regarding electronic devices and whatnot, and my first thought when I buy something (whether it's a knife, light, firearm, car. whatever) is "will it break? If so...what on it will go first?"

 

With a 'vette or mustang, they are pretty much expensive rocks regarding that. If it breaks, it's going to be clear-cut and simple (if not always cheap) to fix. Under the hood the mustang reminds me of a crown-vic, which is dog simple. The 'vette reminds me of any number of other SBC powered cars. Pushrod. Cam-in-block. Simple.

 

I feel like I could work on either car if I had to. The Ferrari? Forget it. I might could change the oil after someone held my hand the first time. Unless it was the model where the engine had to be removed to do it (or is that rumor?)

[jsarkis]

JWG223 why do you keep arguing these mute points? Enjoy your new fast ride bro, no need to validate your purchase (especially here). You keep throwing out magazine stats...lol and their all so close you'd never notice these slight differences on the street, seriously...could you? Whether it's .96g vs 1g or 11.8 1/4 vs 12 1/4, trust me champ, on the street it comes down to the driver, these are cun&hair differences (unless your a professional racer, and you said your keeping yours 100% stock, so..). Have you driven a new model GT500 yet? Alright, cheers and have fun with life, no need for so much bs drama, anyhoo almost beer thirty here

 

Fyi here is 100% stock 11 GT500, first time this guy was on a road course: Car handles slightly better than those mags make it out to be (just think what a few grand would do to this car)?

 

 

[JWG223]

JWG223 why do you keep arguing these mute points? Enjoy your new fast ride bro, no need to rationalize your purchase (especially here). You keep throwing out magazine stats...lol and their all so close you'd never notice these slight differences on the street, seriously...could you? Have you driven a new model GT500 yet? Alright, cheers and have fun with life, no need for so much bs drama, anyhoo almost beer thirty here

 

Fyi here is 100% stock 11 GT500, first time this guy was on a road course: Car handles slightly better than those mags make it out to be?

 

 

 

 

Just friendly banter (from my point, maybe someone else got bent out of shape?). Not justification.

 

I am about to head to the gym, as I need to get there at 1630, but will watch the vid as soon as I get back.

 

Can I notice performance like that? No. I doubt many others here can, either. However, that question is like asking "What do you need over 500 horsepower for?"

 

EDIT:

 

Watched the vid. Both cars all but waved the Cobra by. It's hard to tell whether they were doing shakedown runs, had new drivers, or were going all-out and just couldn't keep ahead of the Cobra, or what. We don't know the story, so to speak. I do know that the M3 did the Lightning Lap only 1.4 seconds slower than the GT500, though, what with its similar weight (100-175# lighter, I belive, depending on options of both cars) and nearly 150 horsepower and way more torque disadvantage. This M3 doesn't look like it would come anywhere near being only 1.4 seconds slower on a long/fast track like VIR, though, and I point at the driver for that, not the car.

 

Ford has indeed made the SRA livable, but they need to make it competative, also.

 

I am VERY curious how the Z28 will fare against the GT500, even if I find it ugly. It will be a perfect showcase of IRS and useful tire-width vs. similar power/weight and skinny-tires/SRA.