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Auto Pricing, Why do we get angry ??


gth0007
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From reading most of the Team Shelby forum posts, I find that a lot of members get angry when a seller tests the market with a really high price for their Shelby, Boss, or other interesting cars and car parts. Why get angry ?? Words and phrases like, "rip-off", "gouger", "jerk", etc all appear in the posts. A car, or car parts, are in the category of "want", NOT the "need" category. Now if someone, during a natural disaster,artificially inflates items in the "need" category (food,shelter, housing etc), then they would be all of the above names. But a car ?? I've sold several very interesting cars over the years and I've later found out the Buyer re-sold the car at a good profit. Great, that's America capitalism, good for them as they marketed the cars and worked hard to find that "right" buyer, not to mention they put up good money to test their selling ability, so why deny them a profit ?? As long as the car, or car parts, are accurately described, then why not just let the market, buyers, dictate selling price?? What do you think ?? The phrase, "a good sale is when buyer and seller are happy" comes to mind.

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From reading most of the Team Shelby forum posts, I find that a lot of members get angry when a seller tests the market with a really high price for their Shelby, Boss, or other interesting cars and car parts. Why get angry ?? Words and phrases like, "rip-off", "gouger", "jerk", etc all appear in the posts. A car, or car parts, are in the category of "want", NOT the "need" category. Now if someone, during a natural disaster,artificially inflates items in the "need" category (food,shelter, housing etc), then they would be all of the above names. But a car ?? I've sold several very interesting cars over the years and I've later found out the Buyer re-sold the car at a good profit. Great, that's America capitalism, good for them as they marketed the cars and worked hard to find that "right" buyer, not to mention they put up good money to test their selling ability, so why deny them a profit ?? As long as the car, or car parts, are accurately described, then why not just let the market, buyers, dictate selling price?? What do you think ?? The phrase, "a good sale is when buyer and seller are happy" comes to mind.

 

 

Don't forget along with the seller bashing there seems to be an negative underlying current for those who pay the ADM's. You know, "privileged", "rich", "too much money", blah, blah blah.

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Don't forget along with the seller bashing there seems to be an negative underlying current for those who pay the ADM's. You know, "privileged", "rich", "too much money", blah, blah blah.

 

 

What youre seeing is a frustration of someone whou could possibly afford something at MSRP not be able to because of ADM's. As far as used cars go, the market dictates the results. And while thats true for the new car market as well, people will look at that MSRP as a benchmark

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From reading most of the Team Shelby forum posts, I find that a lot of members get angry when a seller tests the market with a really high price for their Shelby, Boss, or other interesting cars and car parts. Why get angry ?? Words and phrases like, "rip-off", "gouger", "jerk", etc all appear in the posts. A car, or car parts, are in the category of "want", NOT the "need" category. Now if someone, during a natural disaster,artificially inflates items in the "need" category (food,shelter, housing etc), then they would be all of the above names. But a car ?? I've sold several very interesting cars over the years and I've later found out the Buyer re-sold the car at a good profit. Great, that's America capitalism, good for them as they marketed the cars and worked hard to find that "right" buyer, not to mention they put up good money to test their selling ability, so why deny them a profit ?? As long as the car, or car parts, are accurately described, then why not just let the market, buyers, dictate selling price?? What do you think ?? The phrase, "a good sale is when buyer and seller are happy" comes to mind.

 

 

Well said. Once in the USED market, be it 1 mile or 100,000 miles, I believe market is market and whatever someone of interest is willing to pay is what it's worth for them to buy it. I've often passed up deals on cars because I thought the price was too high and flat out told the person "I won't pay that much, but maybe someone will. But if you still have it in a month or a year, etc., you're welcome to give me a ring."

 

 

Don't forget along with the seller bashing there seems to be an negative underlying current for those who pay the ADM's. You know, "privileged", "rich", "too much money", blah, blah blah.

 

 

While, I'd never bash some one for PAYING the ADM's, I still don't believe that a corporate car company should be be adding "market adjustment" values on ANY new car. If they are in the business of selling collectibles, okay... but they're not. These are still selling original production cars and not in terribly small numbers. If Ford thinks they are worth $10-15k more... make THAT the sticker price and deal with the backlash that the base GT500 is now $65-70k. To me, it's just an underhanded way of hiding the actual price they demand. And you WILL find dealerships that refuse the practice our of principal (few and far between, but they're out there). Not only that, but I'm not convinced that the "market adjustment" value adds THAT exact amount to the value of the car. I mean, I knew guys that were paying the market adjustment price at one dealership and other guys that were getting them for $1k under sticker at another dealership at the very same time. Now if those 2 cars, with similar options, were resold the next day, would one be worth more than the other? I submit not.

 

But again, I DO NOT agree with bashing someone for PAYING the ADMs. If you've GOT the money to get what you want now... more power to ya. I just don't agree with them charging them in the first place.

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For quite some time, the ONLY Bashing I have seen is to the Dealerships who add an ADM to their Vehicles. I will be the FIRST to Bash those Dealers. I don't care what someone is asking for a used Vehicle or Part, because, like stated in an earlier post, the Market will dictate the selling Price. You can always come down, it's pretty hard to go UP unless there is a Bidding War.

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From reading most of the Team Shelby forum posts, I find that a lot of members get angry when a seller tests the market with a really high price for their Shelby, Boss, or other interesting cars and car parts. Why get angry ?? Words and phrases like, "rip-off", "gouger", "jerk", etc all appear in the posts. A car, or car parts, are in the category of "want", NOT the "need" category. Now if someone, during a natural disaster,artificially inflates items in the "need" category (food,shelter, housing etc), then they would be all of the above names. But a car ?? I've sold several very interesting cars over the years and I've later found out the Buyer re-sold the car at a good profit. Great, that's America capitalism, good for them as they marketed the cars and worked hard to find that "right" buyer, not to mention they put up good money to test their selling ability, so why deny them a profit ?? As long as the car, or car parts, are accurately described, then why not just let the market, buyers, dictate selling price?? What do you think ?? The phrase, "a good sale is when buyer and seller are happy" comes to mind.

 

 

Tell it to the guys who paid 20-25k over sticker on their GT500s in 2006 and early 2007 cause they were told it was a 2 year run.

Now 4 years later there are over 40000 of them on the road.......and everyone denies the 2 year promise was ever mentioned.

 

Where does deception by the seller enter your point of view?

Because often times it is the illusuion of value that entices some to go over the top, not the reality of it.

 

Personally, I walked out of the stealership where I ordered my car when they demanded 10k over and found a car the next day for 1k under sticker.

So we are all resposible for the choices we make.

And I reveled in passing the first dealership and seeing the car sit there for the next year!

 

As far as used cars go.......several high priced cars have sat for months in the classified section of this site, so you can ask for whatever you want,

it rarely equates to what you can find someone to pay.

 

I do agree with your main point but disagree with it as it applys to ADMS.

Edited by mywickedshelby
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Where does deception by the seller enter your point of view?

Because often times it is the illusuion of value that entices some to go over the top, not the reality of it.

 

Personally, I walked out of the stealership where I ordered my car when they demanded 10k over and found a car the next day for 1k under sticker.

 

 

I think "deception of the seller is a moot point. That enters into ANYTHING. You have to be smart enough to not be scammed to start... that said, I've been scammed several times, but I usually know by that point that I let my better judgement be overridden.

 

As for the 10k over versus 1k under sticker... I think that's what happened with Steve-o 500. Had a GT500 on order for sticker and WHEN IT DELIVERED, they said then needed more money because now they could add ADM to it. Basically yanked it back from him to sell for more money. In fairness to Steve I won't mention which dealership.

 

Steve - if you're listening... does that sound about right?

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The value is in the eye of the buyer. I paid more for my GT-H than I thought that particular car was worth at the time, however the time was right for me to buy and I was going to do so. I will not badmouth the seller one bit. I will never regret it.

I say the high prices on our cars may be a nuissance for someone looking to buy but it is also part of why the general public admire these cars when on the street.

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Most of the pure negatvity comes from jealousy. Now some might say that my be "a little over priced" which is fine, but no need for the "GOUGE / RIP OFF" statements as stated above (everyone wants to negotiate so starting higher than you want is smart). If you had / have the money and pay for something you Really want and can afford....do it - who cares about the other people who may or maynot of got a better deal than you - you only live once - learn from bad experiences and adjust - quit crying about the past because you can only change the future :beerchug:

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From reading most of the Team Shelby forum posts, I find that a lot of members get angry when a seller tests the market with a really high price for their Shelby, Boss, or other interesting cars and car parts. Why get angry ?? Words and phrases like, "rip-off", "gouger", "jerk", etc all appear in the posts. A car, or car parts, are in the category of "want", NOT the "need" category. Now if someone, during a natural disaster,artificially inflates items in the "need" category (food,shelter, housing etc), then they would be all of the above names. But a car ?? I've sold several very interesting cars over the years and I've later found out the Buyer re-sold the car at a good profit. Great, that's America capitalism, good for them as they marketed the cars and worked hard to find that "right" buyer, not to mention they put up good money to test their selling ability, so why deny them a profit ?? As long as the car, or car parts, are accurately described, then why not just let the market, buyers, dictate selling price?? What do you think ?? The phrase, "a good sale is when buyer and seller are happy" comes to mind.

 

 

Well I dont know who gets angry, I usually just laugh and refrain from posting on their threads as the car sits there week after week and they bump their own topic to the top.....

 

while no one responds! :hysterical:

 

test the market indeed! :hysterical:

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Speaking of ADMS

Here is a brand "new" 2008 KR sitting in the dealer showroom. They wanted $130,000. when they first received it. I mentioned being interested at MSRP at the time. The market did it's job on this one. I took this picture today.

 

kr.jpg

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Speaking of ADMS

Here is a brand "new" 2008 KR sitting in the dealer showroom. They wanted $130,000. when they first received it. I mentioned being interested at MSRP at the time. The market did it's job on this one. I took this picture today.

 

kr.jpg

 

 

Wow... I guess "market adjustment" works both ways sometimes. Maybe I could afford it after another 2 years of it sitting in the showroom! :hysterical:

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Wow... I guess "market adjustment" works both ways sometimes. Maybe I could afford it after another 2 years of it sitting in the showroom! :hysterical:

 

 

 

 

I was on the "LIST" for a GT500 in 2007, laid down 10K, then all the sudden the list grew and the lies began, charge ADM's if you want but don't deceive or mislead anyone about it. I am very happy with the GT-H I know have and am happy the stealership did not get, or has, gotten any of my money. Supply and demand is like karma it will work in your favor today but not tomorrow. If you paid ADM and are still happy good, if you didnt and you are happy good as well, my only issue with ADM's is that it limits the people who are able to drive and most importantly love that or any car. Wait and you will eventually get everything at the price you want it .... very few exceptions but one question do you have time on your side???

 

 

:headscratch:

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I think "deception of the seller is a moot point. That enters into ANYTHING. You have to be smart enough to not be scammed to start... that said, I've been scammed several times, but I usually know by that point that I let my better judgement be overridden.

 

As for the 10k over versus 1k under sticker... I think that's what happened with Steve-o 500. Had a GT500 on order for sticker and WHEN IT DELIVERED, they said then needed more money because now they could add ADM to it. Basically yanked it back from him to sell for more money. In fairness to Steve I won't mention which dealership.

 

Steve - if you're listening... does that sound about right?

 

 

I had almost the same thing happen to me, however, they just sold the car to someone and voiding my contract. No interest paid on my deposit for 1/12 years

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Speaking of ADMS

Here is a brand "new" 2008 KR sitting in the dealer showroom. They wanted $130,000. when they first received it. I mentioned being interested at MSRP at the time. The market did it's job on this one. I took this picture today.

 

kr.jpg

 

 

I offered those bozos $10K over in August of 2008 for that car!

 

Every time I go in there i remind them hysterical3.gif

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No reason for anyone to pay ADM.

 

Yahoo autos search for dealer inventory of 2011 GT500s shows...

 

889 vehicles found nationwide

 

Someone is going to be willing to make a deal.

 

 

Yeah but, MOST of those Dealers will wait for a Lazy SOB with a Lot of Money that is close by................

 

:hysterical:

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Yeah but, MOST of those Dealers will wait for a Lazy SOB with a Lot of Money that is close by................

 

:hysterical:

 

I agree with the OP's points almost verbatim. I do however take "some" exception to ADM. Even Ford knows/admits that ADMs are bad for business. It hurts their image as the "damage" is often directed back at them ultimately in the perception of the brand.

 

They tried like heck to price the Boss "right". Now I'm going through the same hassles/frustrations trying to get a Laguna bought. I think the problem is the dealers see the extremely limited quantities on the Laguna and think there's going to be big ADM so they are holding out right now. I think the actual market demand for that car will ultimately be very narrow and Ford will have priced it correctly and built the right number. The issue comes back to time. If I wait it out on an LS, it'll be 18 months before I get it on the track due to being up in the North. If I take my dealer's allocation for a regular Boss with a January build I'll have it on the track this April. Ultimately that's what I'm going to do. The question is this time next year am I going to be frustrated because there will still be unsold Laguna's out there available at or below MSRP.

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My only sour experience with ADMs was with a local dealer that I first saw a GT500 in. Ill never forget it. It was white/blue striped coupe, and they were asking 20k over. I asked if they could get me a vert, and the guy said no way no how, I would never see one. I left, and never went back to that dealer only because the guy used shinanigans to put me in the ONE GT500 they had and told me no one could get another one. That was shady and wrong.:censored:

 

 

I think it depends on WHEN the ADM markup occurs. Were you made aware of it BEFORE you agreed to purchase or after? If a dealer puts a price on a car, and the buyer knows going into it that it will be with an ADM, then it is all on the buyer to decide if they want to pay the price listed. I had to pay an ADM on both GT500s I got, and I was fine with it. Could I have got a better deal? Well, I wanted a 2008, because it was the year they did the red stripe verts. Had I known that Ford would turn around and offer coupes AND verts in the red stripe package for 2009, I would have waited a year, but Ford said it was a "limited edition" for 2008 only on the verts, and I had no reason to doubt it at the time. Im a Ford guy all the way, but it is on FORD that I consider their marketing was somewhat shady. At least in my situation. Now, if you compare the 2008 and 2009 verts, 2009 is the lower build numbers, so I got screwed twice. 1. It WASNT a 1 year only package, 2. the second year will be the more desirable because of the numbers. Heck, they built less coupes and verts COMBINED in 2009 than just the verts for 08. :angry22:

 

This is why I dont want to jump head first into buying a BOSS. What are they gonna offer for 2013, OR what limited edition track car for 2014? Do they just throw a different name on it in 2014?

Or is it going to be like the GT500 program, where the 2011 are SO MUCH superior to the 2007-2010s? :confused:

 

What happens when they announce the Mach 1 next year? (sources say yes, there will be one for 2013):shift:

 

Personally, I dont care what a dealership wants for their cars, if they can get it, go for it. That is just simple economics. If I sell bottled water and it costs me 5 cents a bottle, do I HAVE TO sell it for no more than 25 cents? Or do I sell it for a 1.50 at amusement parks because that is what I can get? :lurk:

 

Everyone here has bought an 8 dollar cup of beer at a football or basketball game or a concert, and yeah, you probably complained the whole way back to your seats, but you drank it down and got in line for another I bet. (I used to sneak a flask of crown or vodka in with me, because I dont drink corn beer, and back in the day in Texas, you couldnt get mixed drinks. It was Bud or Miller or Lonestar or Pearl- that isnt even a choice) :beerchug:

 

 

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Personally, I dont care what a dealership wants for their cars, if they can get it, go for it. That is just simple economics. If I sell bottled water and it costs me 5 cents a bottle, do I HAVE TO sell it for no more than 25 cents? Or do I sell it for a 1.50 at amusement parks because that is what I can get? :lurk:

 

I disagree... you can use the "simple economics" debate in ANY scenario... that doesn't make it ethical or reasonable to a brand. I could be wrong but are many other manufacturer's doing this? If I want to buy the next high end model Camaro or Challenger, (which I don't) or whatever... are they asking anything over sticker? Cuz they'll be in "high demand" too. Granted my interest is very tunnel visioned, but I don't recall hearing such tactics from other manufacturers. Judge your market, state the MSRP and sell it at that... be firm on it if you want to, but this ADM BS is the reason dealerships are still holding on to 3 MY old, brand new cars... I mean that's ridiculous... And speaks even further to the audacity of some of these lowly dealerships.

 

If they want to make more money as a dealership, sell more cars and get more GT500 allotments... THAT is how a dealership is supposed to make it's money.

 

But whatever I guess... to each his own. I just think the fact that dealerships are sitting on 2-3 year old cars, STILL trying to get over sticker is a true testiment to this practice. And again, it then throws the resale world into a tizzy... is it truly worth 20k more because you paid that to get it when you want it? No. Not if one identical to it is sitting right next to it for sale and was sold at MSRP originally.

 

...because I dont drink corn beer...

 

 

WTF is corn beer? :headscratch:

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I have seen the same thing done with GM. The ZR1 comes to mind, and it has also been done with our local Audi dealer on the A8, and the Viper had many dealers selling above in its early incarnation.

 

 

Oh, corn beer is american beer. Think Budwieser and Miller. I only call it that because there was a time when corn was used to brew beer in the states during prohibition, and the taste preferences stuck to the american style pilsner beers.

 

 

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I disagree... you can use the "simple economics" debate in ANY scenario... that doesn't make it ethical or reasonable to a brand. I could be wrong but are many other manufacturer's doing this? If I want to buy the next high end model Camaro or Challenger, (which I don't) or whatever... are they asking anything over sticker? Cuz they'll be in "high demand" too. Granted my interest is very tunnel visioned, but I don't recall hearing such tactics from other manufacturers. Judge your market, state the MSRP and sell it at that... be firm on it if you want to, but this ADM BS is the reason dealerships are still holding on to 3 MY old, brand new cars... I mean that's ridiculous... And speaks even further to the audacity of some of these lowly dealerships.

 

 

 

Many dealers do it on new models. Yes to both the Challenger and Camaro in many places. Also the Z06 and ZR1, Viper, etc. Most new models sell for sticker the first year and go down after that. I agree the only problem is if the dealer misinforms the buyer as to what the ADM really is. But in the end you always have a choice. If you chose to buy a $70k Mustang you will probably be very happy until you find out you could have bought it for less. Did the car change? No, only your thinking changed. If you were happy with the 70k car yesterday then be happy with it today. 95% of these cars are toys for us anyway. Few of them are daily drivers and even fewer are our only cars. Ask the single mom raising 5 kids while working two jobs and driving a car with no A/C what she thinks about a $70k "fun" car. It is all a matter of perspective.

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Many dealers do it on new models. Yes to both the Challenger and Camaro in many places. Also the Z06 and ZR1, Viper, etc. Most new models sell for sticker the first year and go down after that. I agree the only problem is if the dealer misinforms the buyer as to what the ADM really is. But in the end you always have a choice. If you chose to buy a $70k Mustang you will probably be very happy until you find out you could have bought it for less. Did the car change? No, only your thinking changed. If you were happy with the 70k car yesterday then be happy with it today. 95% of these cars are toys for us anyway. Few of them are daily drivers and even fewer are our only cars. Ask the single mom raising 5 kids while working two jobs and driving a car with no A/C what she thinks about a $70k "fun" car. It is all a matter of perspective.

 

 

OK, I stand corrected on other manufacturers doing it. Fair enough... it's still BS... not that people pay it... that Ford dealers charge it. Not bashing Ford, just bashing the practice they are adopting. I'm NOT saying you can't be happy paying $70k for your car, many here have and that's cool. I'm saying it's underhanded for Ford dealers to gamble with their customers loyalty but laughing at them when they offer to buy it at sticker or slightly more and then end up keeping the car from 4 years, because oh guess what... nobody bought it at that price. OR yanking cars out from under deposit PAID people because they found someone that can pay more. :angry22:

 

And in my opinion it DOES artificially :censored: the after-market values since SOME people all the sudden think their car is worth $10-20k more because they paid the "I want it now " price. If you DID pay that great... it just doesn't make the car instantly worth that much more. And if the dealers would just stick to sticker the whole scenario would be avoided... and 3 MY old cars wouldn't still be in showrooms.

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