Engine Tune Reprogramming Forensics

[Madlock]

I've been considering one of the more conservative and easier-to-undo engine modifications - a smaller diameter supercharger pulley, idler kit, and tune to match.

 

I realize I'm setting at odds two opposing forces in the universe - modifying factory performance and warranty coverage. Despite laws compelling makers to cover defect repairs to modified vehicles unless the cause can be directly attributed to the modification and the fact that some dealers' ability to obtain warranty coverage when others can't make a good shop worth its weight in platinum, if you even have to think about fighting the system to get a particularly expensive item covered, you've lost the battle before the firing he first shot.

 

I'm not concerned about the physical aspects of a pulley swap - the fact that they're so easily reversible is part of what makes them such a terrific power modification - particularly for the noob like me. I also know the original engine tune can be restored in the blink of an eye, but what scares the hell out of this old paranoid is whether or not Ford can detect if an engine has ever been re-tuned beyond factory specs - and whether it would use it as a basis to deny coverage for any future repairs, especially to the powertrain which can encompass so much and be so expensive.

 

The 21st century part of my brain says, "Of course they can. They'd be stupid to not build-in that capability as the first lines of code written." I can't imagine Ford's engineers or warranty actuarials NOT insisting upon it from the very first moment engine tune programming became possible. On the other hand, I've been told time and again by mod shops that Ford has "no way of knowing" or "there's no way they can ever tell" once an engine's original tune has been restored. Not that I don't trust these folks, but they have a vested interest - and their exposure is pretty-much limited to losing one customer's future business. I also don't know whether they're telling me what they may believe to be true and correct, but they may have never come across a case where the tune change was made a point of contention.

 

Can anybody offer any definitive insight? Ford certainly wouldn't admit one way or the other - nor would I if I were Ford. I find it hard to believe tune changes aren't at least logged within the engine computer, but there's also no shortage of people who make these modifications to their brand new cars without thinking twice about whether or not their warranties would be affected.

 

I'd appreciate any specific, attributable information anybody can offer.

[mullens]

I've been considering one of the more conservative and easier-to-undo engine modifications - a smaller diameter supercharger pulley, idler kit, and tune to match.

 

I realize I'm setting at odds two opposing forces in the universe - modifying factory performance and warranty coverage. Despite laws compelling makers to cover defect repairs to modified vehicles unless the cause can be directly attributed to the modification and the fact that some dealers' ability to obtain warranty coverage when others can't make a good shop worth its weight in platinum, if you even have to think about fighting the system to get a particularly expensive item covered, you've lost the battle before the firing he first shot.

 

I'm not concerned about the physical aspects of a pulley swap - the fact that they're so easily reversible is part of what makes them such a terrific power modification - particularly for the noob like me. I also know the original engine tune can be restored in the blink of an eye, but what scares the hell out of this old paranoid is whether or not Ford can detect if an engine has ever been re-tuned beyond factory specs - and whether it would use it as a basis to deny coverage for any future repairs, especially to the powertrain which can encompass so much and be so expensive.

 

The 21st century part of my brain says, "Of course they can. They'd be stupid to not build-in that capability as the first lines of code written." I can't imagine Ford's engineers or warranty actuarials NOT insisting upon it from the very first moment engine tune programming became possible. On the other hand, I've been told time and again by mod shops that Ford has "no way of knowing" or "there's no way they can ever tell" once an engine's original tune has been restored. Not that I don't trust these folks, but they have a vested interest - and their exposure is pretty-much limited to losing one customer's future business. I also don't know whether they're telling me what they may believe to be true and correct, but they may have never come across a case where the tune change was made a point of contention.

 

Can anybody offer any definitive insight? Ford certainly wouldn't admit one way or the other - nor would I if I were Ford. I find it hard to believe tune changes aren't at least logged within the engine computer, but there's also no shortage of people who make these modifications to their brand new cars without thinking twice about whether or not their warranties would be affected.

 

I'd appreciate any specific, attributable information anybody can offer.

 

As it stands, there is no way Ford can tell if you had a custom tune or what that tune was. If they look, the PCM will show a reset, which is no different than disconnecting the battery. There is no "flag" or residual indicating a custom tune after the vehicle has been returned to stock. That being said, if you have a catastrophic failure due to a lean condition for example, Ford may infer it was from a tune change and give you a hard time.

 

Just a tip on a pulley change...it isn't as simple as you may think. Stock pressed on pulleys are too much of a PITA to change out on a regular basis. Every time you change a pulley it puts stress on the snout threads. Do a search on pulley changes. Some go real smooth but from what I've read I wouldn;t want to do it on a regular basis.

Good luck and happy modding.

[Madlock]

Wow. Thanks for the terrific information and insight.

 

As true as it may be, I find it to be amazing that Ford hasn't built that capability into the core of each engine's electronic smarts. Now I'm faced with the dilemma of whether, as a Ford shareholder, I should be raising holy hell with them over such a glaring oversight.

 

I know we're not talking medical or weapons grade technology here, but a closed audit loop is the cornerstone of virtually every modern industrial control design. My $100 iPod probably has one, but my $60K Mustang doesn't. Go figure. On the other hand, I was floored when I first saw how few parameters and how little data second and third generation airliners' black boxes actually retain - or that airlines would retain the data on-board rather than transmitting it real-time given that it usually only becomes most important when the rest of the plane is destroyed. Hell, France is still looking for the A330 that crashed en route from Brazil last year because they have no idea what or why.

 

Thank goodness I happen to already own one, I suppose. But, even though it doesn't seem to retain the tune data, I'll probably still live in fear that there's a log kept somewhere. It comes with the territory of being a career paranoid, I suppose.

 

I also appreciate your additional input vis-a-vis pulley swaps. Although I'm certainly a novice, I hadn't presumed pulley swaps to be inconsequential. I meant "simple" in terms of how straightforward a modification it is - not that it's something that could either be done 'simply" or that it couldn't have knock-on effects. If I were to proceed with a pulley swap, it would be with the intention of being a one-way street - and I'd only reverse it if either I found the result to be not to my liking or I found myself facing a potential warranty dilemma that would require me to restore the engine to its delivery state. Otherwise, I'm VERY much a "less is more" kind of person - and that includes what will be any of the very conservative modifications I'm likely to make.

 

Thanks again! Others' input would certainly also be welcomed.

[mullens]

When I owned my Powerstroke there was talk of doing just that...building in some kind of indicator that would leave a permanent footprint if a tune was modified. Too many guys were tuning to the max and blowing head gaskets in the 6.0. If you ever owned a diesel you know how easy it is to add 150hp with just a tune. I'm not sure if they ever did it on subsequent models but I know our cars don't have that capability.

[PistolWhip]

Swapping a pulley is certainly not rocket science, but as stated, its probably not something you want to do every other day. If you looking to throw a stock look pulley on it and forget about it, the dealer will likely never even notice it for basic maintenance and service calls. However, they will notice if they have to do any kind of lengthy test drive or engine inspections. So if you were like me in that you do all of your own work and rarely ever take your car into a dealer for anything other than warranty work, you won't need to swap the pulley often. You'll only need to swap it if the unthinkable happens. The likely hood of a upper and tune causing engine failure is slim and none, but reverting it back to stock to avoid the drama would be simple, quick and advised.

 

That all being said, my car is pretty much stock and will remain that way until I get some miles on it to make sure that any build issues that may creep up, creep up before I start modding. I have a garage full of parts waiting for it, but probably won't put any of it on until I feel confident that everything from the factory was done correctly. I don't believe that Ford should have to foot the bill for my mistakes and once factory defect is ruled out there's not much else to go wrong other than something I cause, so if something I do causes failure (which is very unlikely at the levels I'll be reaching for), I'll be pulling out the wallet for repairs.

[iamlightning03]

Good question.

You know ive often wondered how much information is sent in a vehicle heath report.

[PistolWhip]

I don't send Vehicle Health Reports. Isn't there some sort of protection under HIPAA that makes this health report a violation of my cars rights?

[Bill Hamilton]

I don't send Vehicle Health Reports. Isn't there some sort of protection under HIPAA that makes this health report a violation of my cars rights?

 

 

I'm sure under the Obama Healthcare plan GM and Chrysler have already wavied this right.

[iamlightning03]

Oh man u guy's r killin me.lol