Driving Lesson (1-2)

[Craiger26]

My wife and I ordered our 2011 GT500 August 7th. Sold our '08 Vette a week later. We took delivery of our Shelby on October 6th. The car is not a daily driver, but we love going for long drives on the weekends. Tonight we hit the 900 mile mark on the OD so we decided to play a little bit.

Previously I had only hammered on the throttle while cruising in second a few times taking care not to bang any gears and avoiding over revving the motor or hitting the rev limiter. I have been a tad nervous after reading about the 1-2 shift issue on this and many other forums. I am 49 years young and have a strong competitive drag racing background going back to 1977 with most of the cars I have raced having manual transmissions. I have not raced competitively since 1994 and the last time I have raced a car was in 2004 with my 480 rwhp '03 Cobra and my wifes stock '03 Mach 1. My point being I can or could bang gears with the best of them.

 

Tonight I attempted to do some aggressive shifting starting from a 10 mph roll on, not a flat punch. anyway when I went to bang 2nd all I got was a grinding refusal to go into 2nd. Hmmmm I thought, was it me or the the tranny / clutch? So I tried it again making sure I was pulling the lever towards me as I brought it back but still using a power/ speed shifting method I have used for over 30 years now, all I got was the same result. Now I am starting to get a tad PO'd that I may have spent 50K on a car that cant be driven how it should be driven! My wife and I started to discuss weather it was me or not and try a different technique. Went from a roll again took it up to 6000 rpm, lifted off the throttle completely with the clutch buried into the floor and then pulled second gear and then release the clutch and nail the throttle and it went in like butter but did it almost as slowly as it takes to read this. Ok, lets try that again, only a tad (a lot) quicker, and it worked again but still kinda a wimpy granny shift. Well, lets get brave and use this new to me technique at a almost power shifting quick pace and holy smokes it worked to the point that when I hit second we where in a wild fish tailing power slide!

 

Needless to say I had to make an adjustment in my driving style and may not be able to do a wot power shift at this point, but I was able to hit second gear quick enough to make a solid shift. I do know now that the G2 tires are useless for straight line traction and if I ever plan on going to the track for some time slips I will need some good drag style tires on a smaller diameter rim and probably a shifter that feels more positive. Sure I think I should be able to do a wot shift and I may at some point as I become more familiar with the car. At this point though I am happy with the results I have with the change in style I made. Guess you can teach an old dog new tricks.

 

We love this car as it drives nice, the electronics package is very nice (blows away the GM nav in the vette) and is much more comfortable as far as the seats and driver positioning goes. Plus this thing is a total beast as far as power goes.

[BigDan]

The g2's are a race compound so don't expect them to hook up 550hp in the lower gear's without warming them up first. I was getting 1.9 60 foot's my first time out, and always get sideways grabbing 2nd gear if there not up to temp on the streets. Also go buy a MGW shifter if the 1-2 grind is annoying you.

[Craiger26]

Once I made the change in shifting style I had no grind. If I decide to track the car I will install an after market shifter and a wheel tire combo conducive to low ET's.

[BigDan]

Once I made the change in shifting style I had no grind. If I decide to track the car I will install an after market shifter and a wheel tire combo conducive to low ET's.

 

 

You sound pretty convinced you wont get any more grinding. Good luck that.

[Torched10]

Interesting--thats the way Ive been shifting mine as well,but i try and shift at 5800 so i dont over rev anymore.Just a slight lift on the throttle,clucth all the way to the floor,and fishtailing as it hits 2nd--maybe Im just lucky to have a tranny that works better,who knows

[1shetan]

Interesting--thats the way Ive been shifting mine as well,but i try and shift at 5800 so i dont over rev anymore.Just a slight lift on the throttle,clucth all the way to the floor,and fishtailing as it hits 2nd--maybe Im just lucky to have a tranny that works better,who knows

 

 

Probably the technique for these cars. 19 yrs of racing, mostly in Porsches and if you were not shifting like this your tranny did not make it to the end of the race, to be perfect blip the throttle to match the rpms and they shift like butter (no problems with our 2011). Synchros need a fraction of a second to do their thing.

 

There are Other trans. and shifting systems designed and the gears cut in such a way to allow shifting up with a lift on the gas, and no clutch, or even no lift on gas with a clutch.

[Madlock]

Once I made the change in shifting style I had no grind. If I decide to track the car I will install an after market shifter and a wheel tire combo conducive to low ET's.

 

 

If you have the SVTPP, you may have more than a little homework ahead of you to come-up with a workable tire solution - including a new set of wheels to put them on. As configured, the F-1 G: 2's are the only tires in existence as a matched set in factory sizes.

 

I haven't had any grinding issues, but I enjoyed your read and the insight into technique.

[Ezareth]

My wife and I ordered our 2011 GT500 August 7th. Sold our '08 Vette a week later. We took delivery of our Shelby on October 6th. The car is not a daily driver, but we love going for long drives on the weekends. Tonight we hit the 900 mile mark on the OD so we decided to play a little bit.

Previously I had only hammered on the throttle while cruising in second a few times taking care not to bang any gears and avoiding over revving the motor or hitting the rev limiter. I have been a tad nervous after reading about the 1-2 shift issue on this and many other forums. I am 49 years young and have a strong competitive drag racing background going back to 1977 with most of the cars I have raced having manual transmissions. I have not raced competitively since 1994 and the last time I have raced a car was in 2004 with my 480 rwhp '03 Cobra and my wifes stock '03 Mach 1. My point being I can or could bang gears with the best of them.

 

Tonight I attempted to do some aggressive shifting starting from a 10 mph roll on, not a flat punch. anyway when I went to bang 2nd all I got was a grinding refusal to go into 2nd. Hmmmm I thought, was it me or the the tranny / clutch? So I tried it again making sure I was pulling the lever towards me as I brought it back but still using a power/ speed shifting method I have used for over 30 years now, all I got was the same result. Now I am starting to get a tad PO'd that I may have spent 50K on a car that cant be driven how it should be driven! My wife and I started to discuss weather it was me or not and try a different technique. Went from a roll again took it up to 6000 rpm, lifted off the throttle completely with the clutch buried into the floor and then pulled second gear and then release the clutch and nail the throttle and it went in like butter but did it almost as slowly as it takes to read this. Ok, lets try that again, only a tad (a lot) quicker, and it worked again but still kinda a wimpy granny shift. Well, lets get brave and use this new to me technique at a almost power shifting quick pace and holy smokes it worked to the point that when I hit second we where in a wild fish tailing power slide!

 

Needless to say I had to make an adjustment in my driving style and may not be able to do a wot power shift at this point, but I was able to hit second gear quick enough to make a solid shift. I do know now that the G2 tires are useless for straight line traction and if I ever plan on going to the track for some time slips I will need some good drag style tires on a smaller diameter rim and probably a shifter that feels more positive. Sure I think I should be able to do a wot shift and I may at some point as I become more familiar with the car. At this point though I am happy with the results I have with the change in style I made. Guess you can teach an old dog new tricks.

 

We love this car as it drives nice, the electronics package is very nice (blows away the GM nav in the vette) and is much more comfortable as far as the seats and driver positioning goes. Plus this thing is a total beast as far as power goes.

 

 

Thanks for your research. I had a similar learning period with mine and now have zero grinding issues.

 

Hopefully others with the grind issue read this and are able to work out their issue as well.

[TicketMeBlue500]

Do you daily drive with the tires listed in your sig block? I am struggling for traction with the stock tires! It was around 30 degrees here today and I could not pull out from a stop light and get around an Infiniti FX35....everytime I attempt to press the gas she spins the rears up and I back out. I'll put drags on her if I have too, but I want traction!

 

 

The g2's are a race compound so don't expect them to hook up 550hp in the lower gear's without warming them up first. I was getting 1.9 60 foot's my first time out, and always get sideways grabbing 2nd gear if there not up to temp on the streets. Also go buy a MGW shifter if the 1-2 grind is annoying you.

 

[Torched10]

Do you daily drive with the tires listed in your sig block? I am struggling for traction with the stock tires! It was around 30 degrees here today and I could not pull out from a stop light and get around an Infiniti FX35....everytime I attempt to press the gas she spins the rears up and I back out. I'll put drags on her if I have too, but I want traction!

 

try lowering Pressure in tires,plus let the tires warm up a bit,and dont get on it till youre moving foward.Ive got 18s on my vert,and it held up well today against an M3

[Madlock]

try lowering Pressure in tires,plus let the tires warm up a bit,and dont get on it till youre moving foward.Ive got 18s on my vert,and it held up well today against an M3

 

 

Excellent advise. Personally, I've noticed the F-1 G: 2s are remarkably affected by pressure differences - with as much as 1-2 lbs being VERY noticeable, particularly compared to the family truckster. When I had the air swapped for Nitrogen in preparation for winter storage and topped-up the tires with 3-4 extra lbs of pressure to prevent flat spots, the rear became downright squirrely - and in a big way.

 

Nobody (myself included) should be OVERLY surprised. Ford made no secret that the SVTPP was a track-oriented package - and although it's been fabulously profitable for Ford, despite their its estimates of a 20-25% "take" rate, the ultimate rate was almost 75%, far higher than the percentage of owners who ever REALLY intend to use the car in the manner the SVTPP was intended to serve (including me). To a large extent, a large number of the vehicles that ultimately became available were ordered by dealers who ticked every performance-related box - not wanting to be left-out if the unit he had were to be compared to another down the road. A lot of owners inherited the SVTPP from their dealers (albeit some were more than willing).

 

This has become a real problem for buyers - albeit more so for the mass market buyers. Ford has begun slipping summer-only tires into all manner of option packages, including the Brembo Brake package for the 2011 GT. While it my not be entirely unreasonable for the Taurus SHO Performance Package, what about wanting to stop a Mustang more surely would necessarily be commensurate with a tire whose traction is enhanced during a relatively narrow scope of use - and worse at all other times.

 

But at least GT and SHO buyers have plenty of tire alternatives to choose from. SVTPP is a much bigger deal for two reasons. F-1 G: 2 is the ONLY factory size tire available. Period. Except for hardcore draggers, I don't know a great deal of GT500 owners who cotton to staggering brands. Few other vehicles are set-up SO specifically for a particular tire. It's almost as if the SVTPP should be co-branded by Goodyear. The second issue is one of degree. It's possible to get away with winter driving on most summer tires on most cars. The difference is going to be noticeable, but it's rarely suicidal.

 

The extreme to which F-1 G: 2s become sticky in warm weather that causes them to become SO hard in cold weather is really uncommon. Combined with having SO much torque on demand, particularly with the 3.73 drive ratio, and any caveats Ford included in its literature seem like VAST understatements when the actual rubber meets the road. That doesn't include any other measures Ford has taken to restrict owners to one particular tire (actually four particular tires) to a single car.

 

Sure, the SVTPP is a great bundle that gives MOST people a nicely-tuned ensemble capable of great performance. I chose it for that reason and because I didn't want to face the possibility of selling one in the future without it once it became so clear that so many had it. I can certainly sell the wheels and tires almost any time I want to recoup almost the entire cost - and throw-in an FR3 Handling Pack if I want to "reset" the car to a baseline GT500 and then give it even-more aggressive handling while keeping the 3.73 rear end.

 

And believe me, I've thought of doing JUST that. However, rather than tearing apart the entire suspension, which I'd have to THEN use with new wheels and tires anyway, I'm going to go instead with the 19" SVTPP wheel clones in an all-season tire instead, using the opportunity to go with a taller sidewall on the rear wheel that should BOTH make the car more stable and driver-friendly during more of the year - while even softening-up the ride a bit and helping with power application to the road.

 

The only thing I CAN'T really make-up my mind about is whether or not I can get away with a smaller rear tire diameter on a car that's been lowered as the SVTPP has (and whether I'd also have to proportionally shorten the front diameter to properly level the car), as it would help to make the 3.73 even scootier, particularly in the lower gears. What remains such a challenge, however (particularly for first-time owners) is the lack of credible, reliable first hand information. And for as good as some speed shops are, the tendency is to tell you they can do just about anything you're willing to pay for - whether or not it actually happens to accomplish what you've set-out to do.

 

I'd love to have a weekend roundtable whereby a dozen or two GT500 could get together in conference room - create an agenda of specific items (like maximum wheel/tire clearance) etc - things for which no "official" guide exists and even the engineers who know won't say to ask bona fide engineers from the Mustang program who know the car and are flown-in to advise on a completely unofficial basis - along with top speed shop owners who know the aftermarket and what it's like to work on the cars, who are paid an honorarium to speak as experts - not pitchmen for their shop. In fact, it would be ideal to bring-in shop owners from OUTSIDE the vicinity of any of the vehicle owners to ensure they'd be offering candid advice - rather than trying to sell a particular affiliate's products.

 

My $.02

[BigDan]

Do you daily drive with the tires listed in your sig block? I am struggling for traction with the stock tires! It was around 30 degrees here today and I could not pull out from a stop light and get around an Infiniti FX35....everytime I attempt to press the gas she spins the rears up and I back out. I'll put drags on her if I have too, but I want traction!

 

 

My GT500 isn't my DD so its been wearing its racing tire's for a month but I only take it out to go racing this time of year.

[Craiger26]

Being in Florida I do not have to contend with much cold weather. So the g2 tires work ok for our weekend cruises. I assume other manufactures will jump into the market as far as the tire size on our svtpp cars, like some did on the c6 vette tires that goodyear made spacific to the c6 when it was released in 2005. If I decide to drag race the car at the track I would most likely take the approach of a 15x9 rear wheel and a P255/60R15 MT ET Street Radial that measures 27.1 x 9 that would allow plenty of clearance of rear suspension components, good sidewall flex, allow the 3.73 ratio to work and provide a decent 60' time without sacrificing top end speed. Back on topic I have had good luck with the 2nd gear shifting sense I originally posted this topic... No grind and no missed shifts... :D