BIG Balls

[Madlock]

I probably shouldn't be as peeved as I allow myself to become by dealers who try to gouge customers but I just can't help myself.

 

It's a shame that any buyer might be willing to subject himself to such expensive silliness. Most ADM's can be negotiated away depending upon time of year and so forth. But it's the one buyer somewhere who was willing to pay an ADM - whose dealer THEN told another dealer about it at some industry function - that makes so many dealers willing to continue to try.

 

The fact that a dealer is even willing to put an ADM sticker on ANY vehicle is usually MORE than enough reason for me to walk out the door - as both a customer who won't subject myself to a bad deal and an offended shareholder who's been done a disservice by a business whose sole reason for existing is the promise it made to represent the manufacturer I happen to own.

 

As I shopped for my GT500, about 1/2 the dealers I encountered tried to collect an ADM, and the vast majority were in the $5,000-$10,000 range. Then, I saw this week what must be the granddaddy of all GT500 ADM's - a whopping $30,000, for a baseline GT500 with only the Shaker Audio Upgrade. The dealer was hoping to collect $80,000 for mass-produced Mustang.

 

Okay - to be fair, this car is at a Hawaii dealership, where prices for most consumer goods generally tend to be higher - and the dealer probably feels it can hold people hostage by virtue of geography, but in the internet age, anybody can buy a car anywhere and have it shipped to Hawaii for almost less than it costs to have a car trucked from Florida to New York.

 

 

 

[grsybtch]

I probably shouldn't be as peeved as I allow myself to become by dealers who try to gouge customers but I just can't help myself.

 

It's a shame that any buyer might be willing to subject himself to such expensive silliness. Most ADM's can be negotiated away depending upon time of year and so forth. But it's the one buyer somewhere who was willing to pay an ADM - whose dealer THEN told another dealer about it at some industry function - that makes so many dealers willing to continue to try.

 

The fact that a dealer is even willing to put an ADM sticker on ANY vehicle is usually MORE than enough reason for me to walk out the door - as both a customer who won't subject myself to a bad deal and an offended shareholder who's been done a disservice by a business whose sole reason for existing is the promise it made to represent the manufacturer I happen to own.

 

As I shopped for my GT500, about 1/2 the dealers I encountered tried to collect an ADM, and the vast majority were in the $5,000-$10,000 range. Then, I saw this week what must be the granddaddy of all GT500 ADM's - a whopping $30,000, for a baseline GT500 with only the Shaker Audio Upgrade. The dealer was hoping to collect $80,000 for mass-produced Mustang.

 

Okay - to be fair, this car is at a Hawaii dealership, where prices for most consumer goods generally tend to be higher - and the dealer probably feels it can hold people hostage by virtue of geography, but in the internet age, anybody can buy a car anywhere and have it shipped to Hawaii for almost less than it costs to have a car trucked from Florida to New York.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't be so hard on him........He is willing to throw in the "Delivery and Handling" for FREE!

[Madlock]

Don't be so hard on him........He is willing to throw in the "Delivery and Handling" for FREE!

 

 

Not unless it's the kind of "handling" that includes "full release".

[grsybtch]

Not unless it's the kind of "handling" that includes "full release".

 

 

 

 

 

For 30K it better be goooooooooood!

[Glenn Greenwell]

Based on all the bargain basement prices I see on GT 500s and SGTs on the forum with less than 5K miles I would have hoped everyone had learned their lesson by now including the dealers. When the BJ model came out originally in Arizona I wanted one so bad I couldn't stand it. I could not and would pay over MSRP which has a reasonable dealer profit built in. Seems like my sticker was $51K and after sitting on the lot for a year I paid 33K with a 5 year bumper to bumper warrranty and free shipping to Texarkana.

 

I feel for those folks and some forum members who went deep and paid huge ADMs. It is a real shame. The economy is still bad and after he has paid floor plan interest on the Hawai car for a few months, the dealer will get real, very few options, this car will be a tough sell. Keep us posted.

 

The market is glutted with these Shelby Mustangs and I see no collector value in the near future 5-10 years, drive them and enjoy them.

 

GG

[Bill Hamilton]

 

.....................

 

The market is glutted with these Shelby Mustangs and I see no collector value in the near future 5-10 years, drive them and enjoy them.

 

GG

 

 

Agreed, plus I'm too old to live long enough for a new car to become that valuable. I also own a 1970 Mach I (351C-4V car) which today, 40 years later, is worth slightly jmore than the price was new in 1970, after you adjust for inflation. A big-block car, Boss, or Shellby would be worth a lot more but fun driveable automobiles are just that and made to enjoy. Years from now , if you're rich enough then buy that "low-mileage/pampered" 2007-2011 Shelby, but for now drive and enjoy it.

[Torched10]

As PT Barnum said, theres a sucker born every minute.With all the info available to folks now adays,theres no excuse for someone to pay any ADMs--it takes 2 to tango, a stupid buyer and a dishonest delaer.You ought to change your avatar to ADM Sucks BTW

[BigDan]

That aint nothing. People at the track the other night were convinced I was some sort of millionaire because all the GT500's in my area are over $120,000. They thought I was joking when I told them under $50k for non PP just look on ebay.

[Madlock]

That aint nothing. People at the track the other were convinced I was some sort of millionaire because all the GT500's in my area are over $120,000. They thought I was joking when I told them under $50k for non PP.

 

 

You've GOT to be kidding. Hell - I'll be out there in a heartbeat. They can have mine for a mere $95,000 SHIPPED!

[Madlock]

As invaluable as having a good dealer can be, the simple fact is that most aren't - and do FAR more damage to both the brand and customer they're supposed to be serving than any nominal "value" they bring to the table - particularly during the buying process. When was the LAST time ANYBODY ran into a sales representative who was better-informed about a product than you were?

 

Hell, when 5.0 first started showing-up on dealer lots - and GT500 hand't yet hit, several local dealers had NO idea of what the "Coyote" engine was, yet they certainly promised they could get one - and that Ford Racing superchargers were already in their catalogs. In following much of the industry chatter, I was amused, saddened, and then maddened by the number of dealers who, when discussing the need for makers to pare-down their store counts, would make statements like, "We're (dealer's are) the REAL customers". And from the shareholder perspective, it becomes even more personal.

 

I've got nothing about dealers making the maximum profit from a system (and laws) that are entirely constructed in their favor - where makers have historically overproduced cars and then paid customers to buy them. No sale was a bad sale from the dealer's perspective -- no matter how much makers were losing. So it's particularly offensive when they try to sit on products like GT500 because they can convince people of artificially limited access.

 

To that end, I'd love to blog about the worst ADM offenders - and list them by name, along with SEO that would pair them with references to people who paid reasonable market values (between hold-back net and sticker) - also identifying those dealers by name. Fortunately, the essential crusade toward "fewer, better, and stronger" in every aspect of the industry has helped to trim some of the low hanging fruit, but Ford could still lose the bottom 30% of its dealers in terms of subpar facilities or integrity and not hit bone.

 

And that's one of the REAL shames of the GM and Chrysler bailouts - and that they were never made to fully undergo the reorganizations that would have made them legitimately stronger enterprise - which would have been even stronger than they are today, and without foisting upon every competitor a perpetual tax for having to compete with bailed-out makers. Only the government could stack the deck so much in GM's favor - and at the expense of so many others, without subjecting EVERY aspect to reinvention. The fact that legitimate enterprises like Ford, VW, Kia, and so forth have to struggle to contend with the same issues GM was forgiven is bad enough - to waste the unique opportunity that existed was the ONLY possible way to make it worse. And so they did.

 

And so stupid practices like ADM's continue.

[BDrool]

For about 13G's more you too can have this baby...run no. 2!!!

 

I saw this at S/A 2 weeks ago.

[Inconsiderate]

I don't see anything wrong with that sticker price........

 

There is a super snake package on it which is 34k + the cost of the GT500. Go to shelbyautos.com

[Madlock]

For about 13G's more you too can have this baby...run no. 2!!!

 

I saw this at S/A 2 weeks ago.

 

 

Actually, that's pretty reasonable given the SuperSnake treatment - and that it can be financed into the original purchase through Ford Credit. But thanks for playing!

[2010KonaBlueGT]

For about 13G's more you too can have this baby...run no. 2!!!

I saw this at S/A 2 weeks ago.

 

 

I saw that car there when I dropped into SA too but from what I was told, it is NOT for sale. It is a "display item" (unless I was told wrong!). It is the Kona Blue w/White OTT stripe 2011 Super Snake #2 Prototype car.

 

The window sticker is a example of what is available on the 2011's and what the cost of each option is.

 

(EDIT: Removed a comment that was incorrect and added another)

 

Note, in big bold letters where it says "PROTOTYPE VEHICLE".

 

I"ve looked all over the Shelby site to see if it is shown for sale anywhere on the site and I can not find a thing about it.

 

It was sitting right next to the 2010 Super Snake Concept car and the 2011 #1 Prototype was inside.

 

I also noted that the previous models were called "Concept" cars and both 2011 Super Snakes are being called "Prototypes".

 

I wonder why the change?

 

 

Phill

[Madlock]

I wonder why the change?

 

 

Marketing, me boy - and anything they can do to turn a nickel into a dime.

[2010KonaBlueGT]

Marketing, me boy - and anything they can do to turn a nickel into a dime.

 

 

That may be...I guess it's kind'a hard to sell a "Concept" (i.e. an "Idea") but pretty easy to sell a Prototype (first of a type)! lol

 

Maybe that "Protype" really IS for sale!?

 

I was hoping somone more 'official' from Shelby might chime in.

 

 

Phill

[SteelTownStang]

I find it funny that ADMs are still being posted on these cars...

 

There is a local dealer still trying to get 80K for an 08 KR.

[2010KonaBlueGT]

I find it funny that ADMs are still being posted on these cars...

There is a local dealer still trying to get 80K for an 08 KR.

 

Dang!

 

That's just crazy. I thought my local dealer was nuts when I saw their '09 with about the same price tag on it (IIRC, $88K).

 

I told him someone would have to be half crazy and half insane to pay that kind of money for the car. He let me know that if I wanted the car, it would be closer to "$66K in real money" (I'm a cash buyer). That was still more than I wanted to pay and especially since I was looking to buy a '10 he had that was *exactly* what I had been looking for.

 

Turns out, a local guy did buy it and ended up here on this list. He never said what he paid for it but I think it was just slightly better than the $66K "in real money" that they asked from me. Something about a clear out sale, or something like that.

 

And after only a few months, and a BUNCH of money he added in mods, he sold the car for $55K! (OUCH!)

 

So $80K for a *08* is just plain nuts, IN MY HONEST OPINION. But ya know....they''ll probably get it!

 

 

Phill

[2009droptopshelby]

I probably shouldn't be as peeved as I allow myself to become by dealers who try to gouge customers but I just can't help myself.

 

It's a shame that any buyer might be willing to subject himself to such expensive silliness. Most ADM's can be negotiated away depending upon time of year and so forth. But it's the one buyer somewhere who was willing to pay an ADM - whose dealer THEN told another dealer about it at some industry function - that makes so many dealers willing to continue to try.

 

The fact that a dealer is even willing to put an ADM sticker on ANY vehicle is usually MORE than enough reason for me to walk out the door - as both a customer who won't subject myself to a bad deal and an offended shareholder who's been done a disservice by a business whose sole reason for existing is the promise it made to represent the manufacturer I happen to own.

 

As I shopped for my GT500, about 1/2 the dealers I encountered tried to collect an ADM, and the vast majority were in the $5,000-$10,000 range. Then, I saw this week what must be the granddaddy of all GT500 ADM's - a whopping $30,000, for a baseline GT500 with only the Shaker Audio Upgrade. The dealer was hoping to collect $80,000 for mass-produced Mustang.

 

Okay - to be fair, this car is at a Hawaii dealership, where prices for most consumer goods generally tend to be higher - and the dealer probably feels it can hold people hostage by virtue of geography, but in the internet age, anybody can buy a car anywhere and have it shipped to Hawaii for almost less than it costs to have a car trucked from Florida to New York.

 

 

 

 

$30,000 for a Coupe in Hawaii?

 

That admin mark up, it should be a Convertible.

 

I looked at a 2011 GT500

$55,330 MSRP

+ 3,000 Dealer mark up I thought that was high.

[Madlock]

That's just crazy. I thought my local dealer was nuts when I saw their '09 with about the same price tag on it (IIRC, $88K).

 

I told him someone would have to be half crazy and half insane to pay that kind of money for the car. He let me know that if I wanted the car, it would be closer to "$66K in real money"... Something about a clear out sale, or something like that.

 

And after only a few months, and a BUNCH of money he added in mods, he sold the car for $55K! (OUCH!)

 

This kind of thinking remains unfortunately all-too-common, and it belies what is very much a "cultural" way of thinking that's an embarrassing anachronism in the 21st century.

 

CAUTION - RANT WARNING

 

As much of a fixture as car dealers may be, they're one of retailing's least sophisticated market segments - generally lacking even the most basic competencies most other businesses require before opening their doors. It's the result of two basic phenomenon - dealer franchises and the people who hold them have generally been determined by the ability to raise (or access to) the up-front capital required to acquire or build the necessary facilities rather than any inherent business acumen with respect to product sales and customer relationship management, and a system in which manufacturers both overproduced vehicles in quantities that exceeded organic demand for their product to their contractual obligation to provide inventory to its dealers - and then ultimately have to pay customers to buy the excessive number of vehicles they produced.

 

It was a no-lose proposition for dealers. They had access to as much product as they wanted, and the makers would always subsidize consumers enough to buy them - all but ensuring EVERY transaction would be profitable for the dealer no matter how much it happened to cost the manufacturer. To dealers, no deal was a "bad" deal - and "successful" dealerships were the ones who could churn the most volume (because volume-based dealer incentives invariably existed) and maintain the lowest operating cost to result in the highest profit margin. A "smart" dealer focused only on dealing a deck of cards already stacked so much in their favor it became virtually impossible to lose - and the dealer body as a whole eventually devolved into a group of process administrators who lost the ability to do what makers needed most, which was to be a brand ambassador within each dealer's local monopoly as an essential cornerstone of strengthening each respective manufacturer. Like vestigial tails, these skills evolved-away from lack of use.

 

It worked to all parties' benefit - for a while, but only for as long as makers could count on unsustainable double-digit growth to forgive all sins. Rather than building better or more profitable vehicles, Detroit simply built more of them - and dealers happily rode along aboard the gravy train with nobody wanting to leap-off or slow it down for as long as their profits continued to roll-in. Nobody has to look any further than despite Detroit's 40-year decline and one foreign brand after another won additional market share - there was no shortage of additional passengers willing to leap aboard ships everybody knew to be sinking, who then acted surprised when it sunk. Yes, new car sales are only one of four major business lines within each dealer, but it's their core purpose and it sets the tone for everything. Dealers were individually-profitable monopolies rather than net contributors first and foremost.

 

When Detroit ultimately collapsed and the clamor for each maker to reinvent itself meant changing the way its dealers operate to become competitive, it was dealers who screamed the loudest. The weakness of their case was made clear by one dealer after another claiming it deserved to exist because of how profitable it happened to be - without one word about how much (if any) profit they contributed to the manufacturer they were responsible to represent. And of course, that was exactly the point - the fact that dealers continued to be sustainably profitable (and some wildly so) whether or not makers hemorrhaged billions was one of Detroit's basic problems. At the same time, Detroit had to compete with makers who hadn't over-saturated the market with brands and stores that would ultimately primarily wind-up competing only with each other - leaving many profitable, but unable to guarantee the kind of revenues required to build and maintain competitive, attractive facilities. By comparison, domestic dealers were a collection of Quonset huts operating against import Sistine Chapels. And it wasn't that dealers didn't WANT to make a better argument for themselves - they simply couldn't. They'd lost that skill generations ago.

 

It's finally starting to get better. Makers are starting to produce cars - and more of them - only if it enhances profits regardless of sales volumes. Dealers enjoy the opportunity to profit from each sale, but dealers can no longer create unlimited profits for themselves that come at makers' expense. Detroit is imposing these fundamental changes from the top down, including store count reduction efforts that continue at Ford - who didn't have the benefit of shedding dealers through bankruptcy, but it hasn't yet been occurring long enough - and dealers haven't yet reacquired the skills fully enough - for all showrooms to be rid of such nonsense like the 3 year-old $80K Mustang that would have had NO problem selling when anybody could obtain financing. At least today, it's less likely to wind-up being repossessed.

 

And it's making cases of such silliness like ADM stickers stand-out even more. It used to be that dealers would install chrome trim, fabric protectant, or pin-stripes on a certain number of vehicles as guaranteed high-margin items to bolster their take from each transaction because they were items customers couldn't remove from the car. And not knowing what else to do during the great crisis of 2008-2009, many compounded their problems by blinging-out their $80K KR's - and then sitting on them at tremendous cost - unable to break free from the "dealer think" that landed them where they are. Even at a substantial one-time loss, dealers would be FAR better cutting loose of aging inventory (that's now superseded by much-improved factory product), if not for the sake of cash flow, but as a deliberate step toward evolution back toward once again becoming the bona fide businesses makers need each dealer to be.

 

It's silly enough from a customer's perspective - but it's downright maddening as a shareholder when your primary distribution channel isn't necessarily a net contributor - either individually or as a whole. Although it's going to take time, the good news is that the process is already working. It's ironic to see dealers complaining about today's much healthier Detroit - solely because the dealers don't have the same unlimited access to product to sell for their own benefit as they once used to. They claim Detroit today is being mismanaged despite its multi-billion dollar earnings simply because makers have stopped existing primarily for dealers' benefit - and at the expense of their own. The disconnect remains SO big that SOME dealers continue to insist, "We're the REAL customers" - only making the situation more surreal and further illustrating how much further and farther is left to travel.

 

Although it's sad that more dealers will be going away - and failing on their own - before the page finally turns, but the good news is that opportunities exist for dealers who are able and willing to embrace change and once again become the kind of liaisons that benefit both makers and consumers that will have greater profit potential than they've ever had before. And they'd better - because the internet has never made them less relevant, and they largely continue to be the last place customers go because they have to rather than the first place they turn because they WANT to.

 

So, the what's the moral of the story? Get your $90K '08KR today - they won't last long.

[BigDan]

I find it funny that ADMs are still being posted on these cars...

 

There is a local dealer still trying to get 80K for an 08 KR.

 

 

My dealer had to 2 black KR's both roped off for $80+ and had a big red tag that said NOT FOR SALE in CA.

 

Most of the KR's have been sitting on dealer lots going 4 model years. That's just plain absurd, Sorry guys but NOBODY is going to walk in and pay that on a 4 year old car collecting dust due to its ADM and by saying was extra special in 08 and now its a down grade over the 2011's and 2012's coming out in a few months.

[LuckySnake]

My dealer had to 2 black KR's both roped off for $80+ and had a big red tag that said NOT FOR SALE in CA.

 

Most of the KR's have been sitting on dealer lots going 4 model years. That's just plain absurd, Sorry guys but NOBODY is going to walk in and pay that on a 4 year old car collecting dust due to its ADM and by saying was extra special in 08 and now its a down grade over the 2011's and 2012's coming out in a few months.

 

An 08-09 KR isn't a downgrade to the 2011 or 2012 GT500 anymore than 68 KR is a downgrade to 2008. Bottom line is there are always more bells and whistles added and engineering gets better everyday. What doesn't get better everyday is style or the look a car has, and the 07-09 GT500s and KRs have the right stuff, just as the 67-68 Shelby Mustangs do.

I agree ADMs on a four year old car in these economic times seems crazy.

[scpinto]

My local dealer here in California is asking a special internet price of $90,325 for a 2011 vert.....any takers?

[BDrool]

I saw that car there when I dropped into SA too but from what I was told, it is NOT for sale. It is a "display item" (unless I was told wrong!). It is the Kona Blue w/White OTT stripe 2011 Super Snake #2 Prototype car.

 

The window sticker is a example of what is available on the 2011's and what the cost of each option is.

 

(EDIT: Removed a comment that was incorrect and added another)

 

Note, in big bold letters where it says "PROTOTYPE VEHICLE".

 

I"ve looked all over the Shelby site to see if it is shown for sale anywhere on the site and I can not find a thing about it.

 

It was sitting right next to the 2010 Super Snake Concept car and the 2011 #1 Prototype was inside.

 

I also noted that the previous models were called "Concept" cars and both 2011 Super Snakes are being called "Prototypes".

 

I wonder why the change?

 

 

Phill

 

 

Prototypes, IMO, are test subjects. This doesn't mean a SuperSnake won't be available at, or around, this price. with the '12 coming and the '11 being the first year with AL, I can see a '12 SS for this price. Just not right now. I only posted this as a possibility and comparison to a supposedly 80g OEM GT500.

 

BTW, S/A has a speed shop that will do almost anything for you if your pocket is deep enough.

[AlexVogel]

Prototypes, IMO, are test subjects. This doesn't mean a SuperSnake won't be available at, or around, this price. with the '12 coming and the '11 being the first year with AL, I can see a '12 SS for this price. Just not right now. I only posted this as a possibility and comparison to a supposedly 80g OEM GT500.

 

BTW, S/A has a speed shop that will do almost anything for you if your pocket is deep enough.

 

 

ADM - LOL, I got my price guaranteed buying it through USAA, Out the Door price for 2011, SVTPP, Electronics package 54,038 two weeks ago ..close to same time as original post. Greedy..Just Greedy.