Son of GT Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 You do realize there is more to a car than HP. The z06 weighs 3100 pounds, the GT500 weighs 4000. Enough said. True. But I can take the "extra" $40,000.00 and get plenty of additional HP to make up for the 900 extra pounds. Attaining 700 to 800 streetable horsepower for the 500 is not unrealistic. Also, IMO, 900 less pounds is still not worth an additonal $40,000.00 too. Look, don't misunderstand me. I like the Z06. I just think that GM is out of their minds for setting the price point so high that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckstang Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 more, true. The Z06 looks basically like every other vette out there.... Even with the ADM you have a price difference of about $25k - that buys more than enough HP to make up for the weight penalty. I have a Mustang GT on the drawing board for a customer that has the Ford Racing suspension, wheels/tires, supercharger (intercooled), injectors, fuel pump upgrade, boost gauge, full exhaust with long tubes, WMS intake, upper control arm, Baer brakes, Hurst shifter, 3.73 gear, and custom tuned on the dyno to about 530 HP (SCT) for under $46k. Unless that motor is built, dont be shocked for the motor to pop in short time. 450rwhp is the safe limit. Why pay 46k for that car when you can buy an 04 Cobra for under 30k with an already prepped motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckstang Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 True. But I can take the "extra" $40,000.00 and get plenty of additional HP to make up for the 900 extra pounds. Attaining 700 to 800 streetable horsepower for the 500 is not unrealistic. Also, IMO, 900 less pounds is still not worth an additonal $40,000.00 too. Look, don't misunderstand me. I like the Z06. I just think that GM is out of their minds for setting the price point so high that's all. So I take it the Ford GT was an even bigger ripoff at 150k especially since it barely out guns a stock z06 let alone the new SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloy Dave Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Not naming any names, but I wish the ADM bashers that predicted MSRP or lower by the beginning of the year 2007 would chime in now. What did they call us owners???? Idiots . . . if I recall correctly. HSURB I've seen one or two fess up that they were wrong. I think predicting future prices of almost anything is nearly impossible. If you could accurately predict future prices of almost any commodity, you'd be wealthy beyond all means...via the commodities or stock market. Boy, I wish that 3 years ago I knew that copper prices were going to skyrocket.... Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawdude Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 more, true. The Z06 looks basically like every other vette out there.... Even with the ADM you have a price difference of about $25k - that buys more than enough HP to make up for the weight penalty. I have a Mustang GT on the drawing board for a customer that has the Ford Racing suspension, wheels/tires, supercharger (intercooled), injectors, fuel pump upgrade, boost gauge, full exhaust with long tubes, WMS intake, upper control arm, Baer brakes, Hurst shifter, 3.73 gear, and custom tuned on the dyno to about 530 HP (SCT) for under $46k. So what's it gonna look like, a Studebaker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Not naming any names, but I wish the ADM bashers that predicted MSRP or lower by the beginning of the year 2007 would chime in now. What did they call us owners???? Idiots . . . if I recall correctly. HSURB I was never an ADM basher - but I said they would be at MSRP as we got ready for the 08 model year. I am honestly still shocked they are what they are. I paid an adm for mine and am happy with what i got for the 8-10K over sticker (8-10 depending on you believe their number or mine on the trade of my 05 v6 mustang vert). I was out the door at what I needed/wanted so I didn't care how they worked the numbers on their side and remain very pleased with my deal....more so now that it looks like the ADM is holding.....BUT I still think the ADM will go down....maybe not as soon as i initially did (again making me feel better about grabbing my car when I did) but I do believe they will. These dealers holding 1+ cars sitting there thinking they will break the bank are in for a rude awakening as the 08 model year comes out. I can't imagine every dealer is going to sit on cars and try to wait for that one person where $ is no object to come in and buy the car at the 20K+ adjustment listed on the window. Most for the last few months were willing to negotiate to about 10K over and making a lot of phone calls could get you in under that. As there are more out there they will take 5K over I think. I have kind of changed my thinkiing about MSRP being realistic - maybe even if there is a 3rd year as now it seems like a pride thing for these dealers - I can see them all at the convention talking about how much they got in ADM for their GT500...maybe not that bad but i don't think they want to let it go at MSRP and be the first to have to do that among their peers....and honestly I think there is still a good market for these at 5K over - but wait until we see 08 pricing too - that may change everything??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1FAFP90 Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 a friend just purchased a loaded 07' Z06 at M.S.R.P., and the deal still ended up being $85,000.00 OTD. $85k ? Wow, sure enough, I went to the Chevy website and priced a loaded up Z06 to $78k. Add tax, tag, title, etc and I guess it could get close to $85k. According to the Dodge site a loaded Viper Coupe ends up at $90k before tax, tag, etc. OTD would see that just shy of $100k. Gee, I've been concentrating on the Shelby prices so much, I forgot to keep track of the others. What an eye opener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormerGmc Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 $85k ? Wow, sure enough, I went to the Chevy website and priced a loaded up Z06 to $78k. Add tax, tag, title, etc and I guess it could get close to $85k." You forgot the 15K adm you will pay to get the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of GT Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 $85k ? Wow, sure enough, I went to the Chevy website and priced a loaded up Z06 to $78k. Add tax, tag, title, etc and I guess it could get close to $85k."You forgot the 15K adm you will pay to get the car. True, but in my friend's case, he got his for M.S.R.P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of GT Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 $85k ? Wow, sure enough, I went to the Chevy website and priced a loaded up Z06 to $78k. Add tax, tag, title, etc and I guess it could get close to $85k. According to the Dodge site a loaded Viper Coupe ends up at $90k before tax, tag, etc. OTD would see that just shy of $100k. Gee, I've been concentrating on the Shelby prices so much, I forgot to keep track of the others. What an eye opener. Yes, it's rather shocking. ADM buyers, hold your heads high and proud, you really did okay; or it could have been worse depending on how you look at it, but either way, your ahead of the competition! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratnacage Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Unless that motor is built, dont be shocked for the motor to pop in short time. 450rwhp is the safe limit. Why pay 46k for that car when you can buy an 04 Cobra for under 30k with an already prepped motor. These engines can handle 8psi and up to 550 hp (engine not rwhp) without any trouble - I've done this several times before. All the previous Mustangs are still on the road without any mechanical problems. You just have design the system properly so it gets enough fuel, and the tune-up has to be good. I have another customer that will probably end up doing 600 hp. That one will be getting all forged internals though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakeplissken Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 $85k ? Wow, sure enough, I went to the Chevy website and priced a loaded up Z06 to $78k. Add tax, tag, title, etc and I guess it could get close to $85k. According to the Dodge site a loaded Viper Coupe ends up at $90k before tax, tag, etc. OTD would see that just shy of $100k. Gee, I've been concentrating on the Shelby prices so much, I forgot to keep track of the others. What an eye opener. The Z06's are on there way down in price there are many thousands built and supply far exceeds demand at this point. The Z06 has great performance for the dollar it is considerably faster then the GT500 but with that said if I had to choose between my 07Z and 07GT500 the choice is easy I'll keep the GT500. the GT500 is way more exclusive and gets alot more attention, my Z rarely gets any looks. The GT500 also has a SC Motor and the name "Shelby" on it. Viper production was stopped a while back to gear up for the new King of performance the 615HP 08 Viper. The New 06's are routinely sold for $16K Off Msrp which makes them a great value and cheaper then the Z06 and they look Awesome. The Viper gets way more looks then the GT500 or the Z06. Its all a matter of personal preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormerGmc Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Not where I live. 15K to 20K ADM IF you can find one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of GT Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 The Z06's are on there way down in price there are many thousands built and supply far exceeds demand at this point. The Z06 has great performance for the dollar it is considerably faster then the GT500 but with that said if I had to choose between my 07Z and 07GT500 the choice is easy I'll keep the GT500. the GT500 is way more exclusive and gets alot more attention, my Z rarely gets any looks. The GT500 also has a SC Motor and the name "Shelby" on it. Viper production was stopped a while back to gear up for the new King of performance the 615HP 08 Viper. The New 06's are routinely sold for $16K Off Msrp which makes them a great value and cheaper then the Z06 and they look Awesome. The Viper gets way more looks then the GT500 or the Z06. Its all a matter of personal preference. I'm assuming you mean that you can now buy them at M.S.R.P. as opposed to earler in the model year when there were ADM's on the car. But jeez, like I said, even at M.S.R.P. a loaded car still goes OTD for $85,000.00 clams! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakeplissken Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Not where I live. 15K to 20K ADM IF you can find one. Guys on the Vette forum are buying them back of MSRP. There are hundreds on the ground across the country. By the time the 08's come out expect huge discounts. You live in So Cal which is always considerably higher then the rest of the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormerGmc Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Guys on the Vette forum are buying them back of MSRP. There are hundreds on the ground across the country. By the time the 08's come out expect huge discounts. You live in So Cal which is always considerably higher then the rest of the US. I do live in So Cal which is probably why I got my car in Ohio and have been driving it since the start of last July! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripthedealeroff Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Aint that the truth. I for one dont believe they will ever be at msrp. I dont think they will be at 15-20k over either but rather right in the middle. And thats only if they stop them in 08. If they make them in 09, you will be able to get one at msrp all day long. When the public has the new challenger ,new camaro, the "ol shelby" wont be as desirable with other choices around because it wont be the "new" car anymore. I don't think that people are buying the "ol Shelby" because it's the "new" car. I think they are buying them because they are Shelby fans from the past to the present! And that aint gonna change! There are alot of us out there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratnacage Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Guys on the Vette forum are buying them back of MSRP. There are hundreds on the ground across the country. By the time the 08's come out expect huge discounts. You live in So Cal which is always considerably higher then the rest of the US. The primary difference is that Chevy keeps building the Vette - always has, always will. The next best Vette is always just around the corner. Three years from now, the current Z06 will be bettered by its new iteration. This is not the case with the GT500. I had a customer the other day that came in for a GT500. We already sold the one we had, but he asked how much. I told him, and he scoffed and said he's waiting for an MSRP deal. I told him that we were actually surprised at how the GT500 has held the ADM and that we fully expected that it would've been to MSRP by now too. He speculated that they'd be at MSRP before the end of the year. I said that based on our experience with the Ford GT, that that probably would not happen. The GT's started out astronomically high, went soft, but once production ended, the prices bounced back up. Now the significant point on the GT is the price. There simply aren't as many people who can afford a $167k car. But, even with the ADM, the Shelby's are very affordable to a much greater population, so demand should stay very strong relative to production throughout, which, I expect, will keep the prices up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venom Posted February 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 Made a round of calls to dealers that have inventory (most of them in show rooms) After talking with 2 owners, 3 gms and 2 regular sales guys, I'm going to wait till Fall. They are out there now but dealers are sitting on them waiting for the guy with 20K in his pocket to on in and say "I WANT IT"! IMO, not going to last through the Summer and get that kind of money. The ones that HAD to have their cars first have already purchased and taken delivery. The rest of us waiting are more savvy and willing to provide more patience. At least that's where I'm at. I'm paying cash for my next sports car be it a FORD or not. I have the extra cash. Just not going to make a charitable donation to the "Stealerships" kitty.I'm guessing that when the 08's start arriving with the stalemate 07's still on the lot, prices will take a major hit. Supply and deman thing again. Only thing FORD did right with the GT500s (bad for consumer by the way) is to spread out the allocations via most FORD dealers instead of SVT dealerships. MSRP would already be here if they stuck to the SVT only allocation route. I gotta say it's nice to hear the "Stealership" load of BS lines. It's priceless to let out a "hearty" laugh as I tell them Good Luck! Son, this car says "SHELBY" on the back... This isn't a regular Mustang, it's a SHELBY... They're going for over 20K on ebay... Anyway, congrats to everyone who already purchased one! We'll see what the FALL market brings around here. My guess is that supply will be here as I've already found with my 10 phone calls (located 6 with stock!). The number of guys with 20K in their pocket and ready to burn a hole in their pocket keeps going down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 The rest of us waiting are more savvy and willing to provide more patience. According to Webster's SAVVY : Slang for shrewdness or understanding. Just wanted to make sure the other members did not think you were bashing them. I wish you luck. All the ADM haters predictions so far.........have gone in the toilet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venom Posted February 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 According to Webster's SAVVY : Slang for shrewdness or understanding. Just wanted to make sure the other members did not think you were bashing them. I wish you luck. All the ADM haters predictions so far.........have gone in the toilet. Not at all Grabber. I don't bash anybody. If someone wants to pay ADM, whatever the amount, great for them! It may not help overall prices when dealers are getting ADM, but I really can't complain about anyone paying it. By using the term "savvy", I meant to describe more "price conscious" or "frugal" as opposed to "money's no object" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 Not at all Grabber. I don't bash anybody. If someone wants to pay ADM, whatever the amount, great for them! It may not help overall prices when dealers are getting ADM, but I really can't complain about anyone paying it. By using the term "savvy", I meant to describe more "price conscious" or "frugal" as opposed to "money's no object" Thanks venom for making your point clear. It is easy to read into that kind of post the wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloy Dave Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 The ones that HAD to have their cars first have already purchased and taken delivery. The rest of us waiting are more savvy and willing to provide more patience. Nice to know you're more savvy than I am....and more savvy than many on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloy Dave Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 Nice to know you're more savvy than I am....and more savvy than many on this forum. Edit: Just read your clarification on this. Still nice to know you are more price conscious than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 Nice to know you're more savvy than I am....and more savvy than many on this forum. See....I knew this was going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloy Dave Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 See....I knew this was going to happen. As usual, you are right!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venom Posted February 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 See....I knew this was going to happen. No worries. It's all good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john351 Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 " more, true. The Z06 looks basically like every other vette out there.... Even with the ADM you have a price difference of about $25k - that buys more than enough HP to make up for the weight penalty." But a regular Z51 C6 can be had fully loaded with way more stuff for 47K (or about 7K OFF MSRP). Performance is basically equal in all areas except the rear seats and better looks in the stang GT500. For me the need is to have it as my daily driver - way better MPG and semi-production car could be a plus. I would rather have the Shelby, but it would need to be at MSRP to make a financial case FOR ME. No judgments on those who've bought. Also 2008 Vettes are rumored to have a HP increase of 15-50?, and Displacement on Demand giving over 30mpg highway. For me, with the $3/Gal primo here in so-cal. But will they deal on the 08's - probably. "I have a Mustang GT on the drawing board for a customer that has the Ford Racing suspension, wheels/tires, supercharger (intercooled), injectors, fuel pump upgrade, boost gauge, full exhaust with long tubes, WMS intake, upper control arm, Baer brakes, Hurst shifter, 3.73 gear, and custom tuned on the dyno to about 530 HP (SCT) for under $46k. " Exactly!!! This is my other option! For the price of a vette or 10K less than a GT500, or 7K more than a S-GT, I could have this car. Would love it, performance would be killer, but would concerns about drivablity, mpg, warranty and resale. Oh well, the debate goes on, and I'm going to wait until this summer and sort out the current situation then. Really think I want the Boss 302/Bullitt/Mach1 or whatever Ford will call it. Yes, I know it'll most likely have a big ADM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratnacage Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 "" Exactly!!! This is my other option! For the price of a vette or 10K less than a GT500, or 7K more than a S-GT, I could have this car. Would love it, performance would be killer, but would concerns about drivablity, mpg, warranty and resale. Warranty is taken care of as I use Saleen or Roush superchargers, drivability is not an issue....MPG, well two out of three ain't bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john351 Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 Warranty is taken care of as I use Saleen or Roush superchargers, drivability is not an issue....MPG, well two out of three ain't bad! Good points! Enjoy, or more correctly have your customer enjoy! Definitely surprize some people on the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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