Traction?

[Ezareth]

Ok did two launches today at low RPM(1500) and some feathering the clutch with the gas stomped to avoid breaking the tires loose and wound 1st gear all the way to 6200 RPMs(looked like 6250 or so) then hammered it into second. Both times I got only a chirp and no spin. TC was completely off and yeah it screamed from second through the top of 3rd.

 

I guess I need to just to figure out how to maintain control or regain control through a high RPM launch in 1st to improve. As I become more comfortable driving her I'll probably get the hang of it but I'm definately driving her like I stole her.

 

Can definately say that the tires on this thing holds second gear through whatever I can put to them. Pulled up next to another SS 2010 Camaro today and he took at good look at me and didn't try it. ( =

[Wicked_SVT]

Ok did two launches today at low RPM(1500) and some feathering the clutch with the gas stomped to avoid breaking the tires loose and wound 1st gear all the way to 6200 RPMs(looked like 6250 or so) then hammered it into second. Both times I got only a chirp and no spin. TC was completely off and yeah it screamed from second through the top of 3rd.

 

I guess I need to just to figure out how to maintain control or regain control through a high RPM launch in 1st to improve. As I become more comfortable driving her I'll probably get the hang of it but I'm definately driving her like I stole her.

 

Can definately say that the tires on this thing holds second gear through whatever I can put to them. Pulled up next to another SS 2010 Camaro today and he took at good look at me and didn't try it. ( =

 

 

I have noticed the same thing with second gear. Unless the road conditions are bad the tires seem to hold traction through second. Trying to get a few more miles on the car before unleashing the beast in first. I can tell you will have to finesse the launch to keep the tires from going up in smoke.

[JWG223]

Ok did two launches today at low RPM(1500) and some feathering the clutch with the gas stomped to avoid breaking the tires loose and wound 1st gear all the way to 6200 RPMs(looked like 6250 or so) then hammered it into second. Both times I got only a chirp and no spin. TC was completely off and yeah it screamed from second through the top of 3rd.

 

I guess I need to just to figure out how to maintain control or regain control through a high RPM launch in 1st to improve. As I become more comfortable driving her I'll probably get the hang of it but I'm definately driving her like I stole her.

 

Can definately say that the tires on this thing holds second gear through whatever I can put to them. Pulled up next to another SS 2010 Camaro today and he took at good look at me and didn't try it. ( =

 

 

 

Sounds good. My WS6 was a dead-heat with any SS I pulled up to (2010 or 2002, didn't matter). The '09 GT500 I ran stomped me 60-115 by about 4 cars. She started (yes...she) in 3rd.

 

It's all physics. If you short-shift while spinning, you will continue to spin. If you launch it well and wind it out and them shift, you won't. Reason being is that when you are spinning and shift, there is no weight on the rear. The suspension is pretty much unloaded as no traction is going on. When you shift it while hooked up, you have the rear suspension already compressed. If you shift fast, it doesn't have time to fully unload and you keep some of your weight transfer through the shift.

 

This is why you can roll into the throttle and keep it glued down to redline and when you just slam the gas it pops loose way before you even think about redline.

 

Then, you probably knew all that. Saying it makes me feel useful though

 

PS> Is the tach as fast as the engine in this car? In my WS6, I shifted at an indicated 5600 to avoid the 6200rev-limiter as the tach wasn't as fast as the engine in 1st.

[JWG223]

I have noticed the same thing with second gear. Unless the road conditions are bad the tires seem to hold traction through second. Trying to get a few more miles on the car before unleashing the beast in first. I can tell you will have to finesse the launch to keep the tires from going up in smoke.

 

 

I always just launched off idle in my WS6. I would run other F-bodies with automatics and usually only lost off the line by 1 car or less, and made up for it before we hit 50 or so. So much better than going up in smoke and having to shut down before getting sideways and looking the fool.

[JWG223]

 

 

The gains over 5500 RPMs or even 5000 RPMs is not that much but yeah I guess max HP comes at max RPM.

 

 

The problem isn't the power when you shift. It's the lack of power when you short-shift into another gear upon arrival in that gear. SHort-shifting will kill your performance. It doesn't feel like much until you have a similarly powered vehicle beside you, then it makes all the difference in the world. You may only lose 1/4-1/2 car to them to your early shift, but those extra 500-1000 rpm you lost is a huge hole to climb out of.

[kpevin]

I always just launched off idle in my WS6. I would run other F-bodies with automatics and usually only lost off the line by 1 car or less, and made up for it before we hit 50 or so. So much better than going up in smoke and having to shut down before getting sideways and looking the fool.

 

 

 

I bet you wouldnt have been within a car on either of my old LS powered street/strip cars

 

http://www.streetfire.net/video/8-second-ls1-procharger-11102007_710762.htm

 

http://www.streetfire.net/video/bg-110709_717889.htm

 

Both cars were driven regularly (power steering, brakes, windows etc) and on 275 DRs either would scare the crap out of anyone who would come along for a ride, up to about 150 or so anyway

[JWG223]

I bet you wouldnt have been within a car on either of my old LS powered street/strip cars

 

http://www.streetfire.net/video/8-second-ls1-procharger-11102007_710762.htm

 

http://www.streetfire.net/video/bg-110709_717889.htm

 

Both cars were driven regularly (power steering, brakes, windows etc) and on 275 DRs either would scare the crap out of anyone who would come along for a ride, up to about 150 or so anyway

 

 

Nice!

 

Nah, my car was bone stock. It was a freak though. Even with my overweight (now X) gf in the car, I lost by 1-2 yards to a geared full-bolt-on Z28 with a built auto and LT's or midlengths (didn't look at them too much, but guy did pop the hood) dumped out a bullet muffler from a 60 punch with some 150# skinny-guy driving it (Me being 180 I guess I should be careful about calling people skinny, but I'm 5'10. I wear it ok).

 

My most epic race was probably the two 2010 SS's I ran. Dead even up to any speed we took 'em to.

 

That or the little rich brunette trophy-wife who's Z4M I killed from a roll.

 

Or maybe the guy with the finger-thick scraggley pony-tail in his NSX from a 75 punch.

 

I dunno, it was a fast car on the street and a dog at the strip (or rather, I was scared of the 10-bolt. I blew it up once at 700rpm backing out of the drive-way. Spun the pinion bearing. I was scared to launch it, truth be told).

[kpevin]

Nice!

 

Nah, my car was bone stock. It was a freak though. Even with my overweight (now X) gf in the car, I lost by 1-2 yards to a geared full-bolt-on Z28 with a built auto and LT's or midlengths (didn't look at them too much, but guy did pop the hood) dumped out a bullet muffler from a 60 punch with some 150# skinny-guy driving it (Me being 180 I guess I should be careful about calling people skinny, but I'm 5'10. I wear it ok).

 

My most epic race was probably the two 2010 SS's I ran. Dead even up to any speed we took 'em to.

 

That or the little rich brunette trophy-wife who's Z4M I killed from a roll.

 

Or maybe the guy with the finger-thick scraggley pony-tail in his NSX from a 75 punch.

 

I dunno, it was a fast car on the street and a dog at the strip (or rather, I was scared of the 10-bolt. I blew it up once at 700rpm backing out of the drive-way. Spun the pinion bearing. I was scared to launch it, truth be told).

 

 

My first 1999 Camaro SS I drove from the showroom to the dragstrip and broke the rear on the 1st pass lol.

 

I've owned 10 LS powered cars, a 10.90 daily driver C5, 9.90 naturally aspirated 408LS car, three stock engine 10 second f-bodies (one with an m6), a few procharged cars and a few stock C6 corvettes. Those last two cars rolled into my 2 car garage as stock car and left a few months later running 8s and low 9s. I did everything on them, transmissions, wiring, plumbing, tuning, rear ends, roll cage, even mount/balance my own tires and do my own wheel alignments. Only thing I didnt do was the engine machine work, which I could do if I had the machines.

 

But thats what I did for a on and off for a living and hobby for 25+ years so it kinda come naturally, plus I'm too cheap to pay anyone to work on my car. When I do it myself I can buy nicer parts

[JWG223]

My first 1999 Camaro SS I drove from the showroom to the dragstrip and broke the rear on the 1st pass lol.

 

I've owned 10 LS powered cars, a 10.90 daily driver C5, 9.90 naturally aspirated 408LS car, three stock engine 10 second f-bodies (one with an m6), a few procharged cars and a few stock C6 corvettes. Those last two cars rolled into my 2 car garage as stock car and left a few months later running 8s and low 9s. I did everything on them, transmissions, wiring, plumbing, tuning, rear ends, roll cage, even mount/balance my own tires and do my own wheel alignments. Only thing I didnt do was the engine machine work, which I could do if I had the machines.

 

But thats what I did for a on and off for a living and hobby for 25+ years so it kinda come naturally, plus I'm too cheap to pay anyone to work on my car. When I do it myself I can buy nicer parts

 

 

How does the GT500 compare for quality? My experience with my 01 WS6 is why I will never own GM again.

[kpevin]

How does the GT500 compare for quality? My experience with my 01 WS6 is why I will never own GM again.

 

 

4th gen F-bodies are decent cars but they were on already worn out tooling (same main body since 93) and pretty sloppy overall construction. I have had them striped down to nothing and they were all over the place as far as QC for sure. Interiors were typical GM all plastic, the firebirds were a little nicer though. But I forgave a lot of things about them because they had one of the best and easy to mod pushrod engines I ever seen, easy to work on too. They were expensive new though, too expensive for what they were but they are great cars to mod and cheap to buy now.

 

I had a 2007 GT vert and I was very impressed with the build quality, it just had no power. Wasnt thrilled with the interior and when I seen the 2010 GT500 interior I had to have one. I dont regret buying it, I bought a vert on purpose so I dont make a drag car out of it. I was going to pulley it and do a few things but honestly stock this car can get you in trouble pretty quick, instead I'll leave this one stock and will most likely pick up a 2011 GT coupe when I can pick up a used one to make a drag toy out of. I cant do another 4th gen f-body and I'm vetted out as well. I had a 2010 Challenger R/T for a while and was going to mod it but the IRS, size and weight made me get rid of it. I cant stand the looks of the 2010 Camaro as much as I like the engine, but I may pick up a used one to make a drag car out of instead of a '11 GT.

[JWG223]

4th gen F-bodies are decent cars but they were on already worn out tooling (same main body since 93) and pretty sloppy overall construction. I have had them striped down to nothing and they were all over the place as far as QC for sure. Interiors were typical GM all plastic, the firebirds were a little nicer though. But I forgave a lot of things about them because they had one of the best and easy to mod pushrod engines I ever seen, easy to work on too. They were expensive new though, too expensive for what they were but they are great cars to mod and cheap to buy now.

 

I had a 2007 GT vert and I was very impressed with the build quality, it just had no power. Wasnt thrilled with the interior and when I seen the 2010 GT500 interior I had to have one. I dont regret buying it, I bought a vert on purpose so I dont make a drag car out of it. I was going to pulley it and do a few things but honestly stock this car can get you in trouble pretty quick, instead I'll leave this one stock and will most likely pick up a 2011 GT coupe when I can pick up a used one to make a drag toy out of. I cant do another 4th gen f-body and I'm vetted out as well. I had a 2010 Challenger R/T for a while and was going to mod it but the IRS, size and weight made me get rid of it. I cant stand the looks of the 2010 Camaro as much as I like the engine, but I may pick up a used one to make a drag car out of instead of a '11 GT.

 

 

I found the body-panels/paint on my WS6 to be superior to the new 'vettes, etc. It was the fact that it broke down every month that made me hate it. ALso rattled a lot. How is the GT500 in that aspect? Any rattles? Or is it solid like my Infiniti?

[kpevin]

I found the body-panels/paint on my WS6 to be superior to the new 'vettes, etc. It was the fact that it broke down every month that made me hate it. ALso rattled a lot. How is the GT500 in that aspect? Any rattles? Or is it solid like my Infiniti?

 

 

I have a vert so some rattles are to be expected, I had a nasty rattle from under the dash that was a spotwelded bracket that was oil-canning and driving me nuts. Took a couple days for me to find it and it was an easy fix. I'm sure the dealer would still be trying to find it, it only made noise when making a right turn if I had the a/c on for a while.

 

Other than that its really a solid car, panel fit is decent, hood fit could be a little better but everything else is above average for a car in the Mustang's price range. I have had a few Audis. Mercedes and high end Japanese cars and its not quite there as far as panel fit inside and out. Lot of things you can plainly see that could have been improved for little cost. Like a height adjustment for the pass seat..

 

But you are paying for the engine on these, plus the body panels, brakes and suspension. If you figure a 2011 GT premium with brembo brakes and electronics package will be near 40K an extra 10K doesnt sound so bad for 150 more HP under factory warranty, plus some nicer styling (I like the shelby front end and hood) plus being pretty exclusive. These cars are big attention getters, I would probably go stripeless if I was to do it again since I prefer the stealth look.

 

I like it, but I'm pretty bored with it already. But there isnt many new convertibles out there that can scare you like one of these in my price range so I'll probably keep it for a while - at least another month

[JWG223]

I have a vert so some rattles are to be expected, I had a nasty rattle from under the dash that was a spotwelded bracket that was oil-canning and driving me nuts. Took a couple days for me to find it and it was an easy fix. I'm sure the dealer would still be trying to find it, it only made noise when making a right turn if I had the a/c on for a while.

 

Other than that its really a solid car, panel fit is decent, hood fit could be a little better but everything else is above average for a car in the Mustang's price range. I have had a few Audis. Mercedes and high end Japanese cars and its not quite there as far as panel fit inside and out. Lot of things you can plainly see that could have been improved for little cost. Like a height adjustment for the pass seat..

 

But you are paying for the engine on these, plus the body panels, brakes and suspension. If you figure a 2011 GT premium with brembo brakes and electronics package will be near 40K an extra 10K doesnt sound so bad for 150 more HP under factory warranty, plus some nicer styling (I like the shelby front end and hood) plus being pretty exclusive. These cars are big attention getters, I would probably go stripeless if I was to do it again since I prefer the stealth look.

 

I like it, but I'm pretty bored with it already. But there isnt many new convertibles out there that can scare you like one of these in my price range so I'll probably keep it for a while - at least another month

 

 

 

I am wanting to stay in the 50K price-range and want:

 

true manual (with clutch pedal)

hardtop

500bhp+ or 0-60 in the 4.0s range

1G+ skidpad

70mph+ Slalom

 

So far what I am considering: 2011 GT500 black/black stripe delete SVT, Shaker instead of Electronics pkg, with Steeda lowering springs, Shelby Panhard adj., Shelby UCA/LCA adj., Shelby CC plates.

 

-or-

 

C6 GS

 

-or-

 

???

 

So far the GT500 is the nicest car that meets my criteria in that price-range I have looked at. My X gf had an '06 Volvo S40T5 and while the inside isn't as sleek in the GT500, it did seem almost comparable for fit/finish.

 

Going from a 2001 WS6 to a 2002 Infiniti G20 really opened my eyes as to how shitty GM really is year-for-year.

 

Makes me wish the NSX had evolved instead of died. Or the GT-R was a RWD 6-speed clutch, or... *sigh*

[kpevin]

I am wanting to stay in the 50K price-range and want:

 

true manual (with clutch pedal)

hardtop

500bhp+ or 0-60 in the 4.0s range

1G+ skidpad

70mph+ Slalom

 

So far what I am considering: 2011 GT500 black/black stripe delete SVT, Shaker instead of Electronics pkg, with Steeda lowering springs, Shelby Panhard adj., Shelby UCA/LCA adj., Shelby CC plates.

 

-or-

 

C6 GS

 

-or-

 

???

 

So far the GT500 is the nicest car that meets my criteria in that price-range I have looked at. My X gf had an '06 Volvo S40T5 and while the inside isn't as sleek in the GT500, it did seem almost comparable for fit/finish.

 

Going from a 2001 WS6 to a 2002 Infiniti G20 really opened my eyes as to how shitty GM really is year-for-year.

 

Makes me wish the NSX had evolved instead of died. Or the GT-R was a RWD 6-speed clutch, or... *sigh*

 

 

If you dont need a back seat I would be in a GS vette, you can buy one new for less than one of these and its a much more sophisticated car overall. Weight is the key and if you want something that handles and accelerates well 1000lbs is a world of difference. The 08+ vettes interior isnt that bad, not as nice as the mustang but the chassis is worlds ahead of one of these, not to mention the LS3 is a great engine and well proven.

 

It all depends what you want to do with it, from a pure performance standpoint a used C6 Z06 garage queen would be a much better deal for 50K IMO.

[JWG223]

If you dont need a back seat I would be in a GS vette, you can buy one new for less than one of these and its a much more sophisticated car overall. Weight is the key and if you want something that handles and accelerates well 1000lbs is a world of difference. The 08+ vettes interior isnt that bad, not as nice as the mustang but the chassis is worlds ahead of one of these, not to mention the LS3 is a great engine and well proven.

 

It all depends what you want to do with it, from a pure performance standpoint a used C6 Z06 garage queen would be a much better deal for 50K IMO.

 

 

The GS is not a hard-top, and the LS7 doesn't impress me with it's constant issues (The TR6060 is used in the 'vettes, Vipers, and GT500, so I am stuck with the trans idiosyncracies. However, I have heard of dozens of LS7's dropping valves, most stock. I want no part of it. I have heard VERY LITTLE about GT500's dropping valves or anything, even when pushing nearly double rwhp.). Those are the 2 things I have against either 'vette. I had a T-top car and I don't like the rattles and creaks that come with it. One of my friends had a Targa top C5 and it rattled a bit, too. I have no faith in GM. The C6's I looked at looked like crap. All mis-aligned body panels and trash in the paint and all that jazz. Not to mention needing to suck the clutch fluid out with a turkey-baster every time you go to the track because clutch dust gets in it and will ruin the hydraulics (Do the mustangs turn clutch-fluid black after each track session?)

 

All the slalom, skidpad, and acceleration numbers put the GT500 neck/neck with the GS. How is the GS better?

 

I could care less about 2 or 4 seats. I just looked at both cars and the 'vette looked better, but the GT500 looked way better built. With a lower stance (lowered about 1-1.5") the GT500 would look awesome, I think.

 

I don't want to buy used. People dog the hell out of those kinds of cars. When you buy a used car, you are buying something that someone else at one time wanted more than money, and have--for a reason you are left to discover on your own--decided that they made the wrong decision, and want the money back--even at a loss! (some reasons are good--I don't want my whore X wife to get it in the divorce... and some reasons aren't so readily apparent.)

 

The last used car I bought was in good shape, save a few items. Even after going through "a 165 point inspection", it SOMEHOW had all but rotted through belts, 3 torn up motor mounts, and a bad ignition switch electrical component--but it went through 165 point inspection! Must be ok. Not. A used car is just someone else's trouble that they were willing to PAY to get rid of. (unless they went from a Z06 to a ZR1 or from a GT to GT500, or something like that, but if they did that, it means they wanted a performance increase most likely, and if they wanted that, it means they beat on what they had often enough that it stopped exciting them and they hungered for more.)

 

Another part of it is growing up poor, never having anyone in the family wh owned a new car, and damn well wanting to buy one now that it's realistic and feasible. If nothing else, that should make sense I'm tired of other people's hand-me-downs that I bought at a good price.

[kpevin]

The GS is not a hard-top, and the LS7 doesn't impress me with it's constant issues (The TR6060 is used in the 'vettes, Vipers, and GT500, so I am stuck with the trans idiosyncracies. However, I have heard of dozens of LS7's dropping valves, most stock. I want no part of it. I have heard VERY LITTLE about GT500's dropping valves or anything, even when pushing nearly double rwhp.). Those are the 2 things I have against either 'vette. I had a T-top car and I don't like the rattles and creaks that come with it. One of my friends had a Targa top C5 and it rattled a bit, too. I have no faith in GM. The C6's I looked at looked like crap. All mis-aligned body panels and trash in the paint and all that jazz. Not to mention needing to suck the clutch fluid out with a turkey-baster every time you go to the track because clutch dust gets in it and will ruin the hydraulics (Do the mustangs turn clutch-fluid black after each track session?)

 

All the slalom, skidpad, and acceleration numbers put the GT500 neck/neck with the GS. How is the GS better?

 

I could care less about 2 or 4 seats. I just looked at both cars and the 'vette looked better, but the GT500 looked way better built. With a lower stance (lowered about 1-1.5") the GT500 would look awesome, I think.

 

I don't want to buy used. People dog the hell out of those kinds of cars. When you buy a used car, you are buying something that someone else at one time wanted more than money, and have--for a reason you are left to discover on your own--decided that they made the wrong decision, and want the money back--even at a loss! (some reasons are good--I don't want my whore X wife to get it in the divorce... and some reasons aren't so readily apparent.)

 

The last used car I bought was in good shape, save a few items. Even after going through "a 165 point inspection", it SOMEHOW had all but rotted through belts, 3 torn up motor mounts, and a bad ignition switch electrical component--but it went through 165 point inspection! Must be ok. Not. A used car is just someone else's trouble that they were willing to PAY to get rid of. (unless they went from a Z06 to a ZR1 or from a GT to GT500, or something like that, but if they did that, it means they wanted a performance increase most likely, and if they wanted that, it means they beat on what they had often enough that it stopped exciting them and they hungered for more.)

 

Another part of it is growing up poor, never having anyone in the family wh owned a new car, and damn well wanting to buy one now that it's realistic and feasible. If nothing else, that should make sense I'm tired of other people's hand-me-downs that I bought at a good price.

 

 

A targa top C6 is just as solid, if not more so, than a 4000lb unibody mustang, a C5/C6 frame is very stout. I cant say the body panel fit on this is any better than any of the C5 or C6s I owned, nice thing about the vettes is they are plastic so no door dings if anything. The last C6 I owned had the usual array of plastic creaks and squeaks and it had the newer latches on the targa top so that was silent. But its a light car and you have to pay for the lightness in a mass produced car, lot of plastic clips and velcro holding the whole car together.

 

C6 Z06s do have their engine issues, but they have a 5yr/100k powertrain warranty so its GM's issue unless you mod it. A brand new GS with some engine mods would be my choice over a 2-3 year old Z06, but not everyone wants to tear into a new car and would rather buy the power.

 

I dont pay much attention to skidpad or slalom numbers, they don't tell the whole story, a GS Vette has 50/50 weight distribution, IRS, and 5-600lbs less. Sure the Mustang has more horsepower but its also throwing around a lot more weight, and its easy to add more power to the vette. I like the GS because it has the Z06 looks without the LS7 worry, I had a '08 C6 with Z51 and it was a good car, ride was a bit on the rough side but that thing would take the mountain roads around here like a sports car should. The clutch fluid thing isnt a big deal, takes 15 minutes to swap out the fluid, your od WS6 did the same thing.

 

I agree on the used car thing, but if you take your time you can find a Z06 that was treated well, not everyone rags them out. Usually people dont sell cars because they are in love with them thats for sure. But you asked my opinion, and honestly I think a GS is a better car from an all-around performance standpoint, and a well taken care of Z06 is even a better deal (if you can find a clean one). Granted the list price on a GS is higher than one of these but they can be had all day for 10K under sticker which puts them in the same price range.

 

I'm not bashing the Shelby, like I said I like the car, but my main decision was it had to have a back seat which really narrows the choice if you want that and over 500hp, Plus like a lot of people my age I just wanted a Shelby before I died, cant afford (or really dont even want) a 'real' one from the 60's so its hard to beat these from a fun vs $$ perspective. I'll lose my ass when I sell it most likely, but nowhere near what I lost on a lot of other cars I poured 20K in - as long as I leave this one alone anyhow

 

Anyway, I'm sure you read this, if not its kind of on-point:

 

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/09q4/2010_chevy_corvette_grand_sport_vs._2010_ford_mustang_shelby_gt500_-comparison_tests

 

It sounds like you have your mind made up, hard to go wrong with either. For 50K its hard to get that kind of performance out of anything, and the GT500 is cool if you want to get noticed. No one pays any attention to C6s anymore..

[BigDan]

FYI the 2011 GT500 PP beats the 2010 Corvette GS in acceleration 0-60, 1/4, lateral grip in G's and road course times. Remember the GT500 went on a diet and is 500lbs heavier then the GS not 1,000 and has an extra 125hp to boot

 

I think the GT500 will bring more smiles per dollar especially if you decide to mod since it's already fully forged with factory supercharger. I see 3+ vettes every time I leave my house and only seen two GT500's on the street since 06.

[JWG223]

A targa top C6 is just as solid, if not more so, than a 4000lb unibody mustang, a C5/C6 frame is very stout. I cant say the body panel fit on this is any better than any of the C5 or C6s I owned Maybe not better in all cases, but it felt sturdier. The door closed with a solid "whump" instead of a reverberation., nice thing about the vettes is they are plastic so no door dings if anything. The last C6 I owned had the usual array of plastic creaks and squeaks This is what I am trying to not deal with. I want something similar to the 370Z I test-drive, but with balls. and it had the newer latches on the targa top so that was silent. But its a light car and you have to pay for the lightness in a mass produced car, lot of plastic clips and velcro holding the whole car together.

 

C6 Z06s do have their engine issues, but they have a 5yr/100k powertrain warranty so its GM's issue unless you mod it from what I understand, even adding a CAI will void that. Fail.. A brand new GS with some engine mods would be my choice over a 2-3 year old Z06, but not everyone wants to tear into a new car and would rather buy the power. I'm fine with a stock low 12-second car that does 0-60 in 4 seconds.

 

I dont pay much attention to skidpad or slalom numbers, they don't tell the whole story, a GS Vette has 50/50 weight distribution, IRS, and 5-600lbs less. All that didn't help it lap VIR faster than the GT500. Sure the Mustang has more horsepower but its also throwing around a lot more weight, and its easy to add more power to the vette. About 500# more I like the GS because it has the Z06 looks without the LS7 worry, I had a '08 C6 with Z51 and it was a good car, ride was a bit on the rough side but that thing would take the mountain roads around here like a sports car should. The clutch fluid thing isnt a big deal, takes 15 minutes to swap out the fluid, your od WS6 did the same thing. Yes, it did, and it was a PITA.

 

I agree on the used car thing, but if you take your time you can find a Z06 that was treated well, not everyone rags them out. Yes, but I thought my WS6 was in good shape--and it was by all accounts. Fell apart a few thousand miles later, though. All the electronics under the hood, etc. etc. etc. axles, wheel bearings, on and on and on. Usually people dont sell cars because they are in love with them thats for sure. But you asked my opinion, and honestly I think a GS is a better car from an all-around performance standpoint, and a well taken care of Z06 is even a better deal (if you can find a clean one). Granted the list price on a GS is higher than one of these but they can be had all day for 10K under sticker which puts them in the same price range. The thing I like about the Shelby is that it is more iconic. If I keep it, it will always be a Shelby GT500. The GS will be just another 'vette, and in a year or two will be forgotten just like the C5 was. Nice, but noone really cares. Look at the 03/04 Terminators. They still get serious respect. I think the GT500 will be similar. I know when I had my WS6 I didn't care about racing C5's. I wanted to run a Terminator (never did). C5's were dime a dozen. Terminators were kinda rare. Same with the 'vettes/GT500's now days. I see a C6 at every light. I have seen only a hand-full of GT500's. From the iconic standpoint, I like the GT500 idea.

 

I'm not bashing the Shelby, like I said I like the car, but my main decision was it had to have a back seat which really narrows the choice if you want that and over 500hp, Plus like a lot of people my age I just wanted a Shelby before I died, cant afford (or really dont even want) a 'real' one from the 60's so its hard to beat these from a fun vs $$ perspective. I'll lose my ass when I sell it most likely, but nowhere near what I lost on a lot of other cars I poured 20K in - as long as I leave this one alone anyhow I agree, it REALLY appeals to people from your and my Dad's generation who wanted and could not have and now can have.

 

Anyway, I'm sure you read this, if not its kind of on-point:

 

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/09q4/2010_chevy_corvette_grand_sport_vs._2010_ford_mustang_shelby_gt500_-comparison_tests

 

I read it, but the 2011 beat or tied the numbers. Yes, the 2011 GS is getting magnetic suspension and G2's, and that should put it out front, but for $2500, I can put a new suspension under the GT500 that should even things out.

 

It sounds like you have your mind made up, hard to go wrong with either. For 50K its hard to get that kind of performance out of anything, and the GT500 is cool if you want to get noticed. No one pays any attention to C6s anymore..

 

 

You're right, I kindof do have my mind made up, but if provided with compelling evidence, I am not opposed to change. I like to see all sides of things. Mainly, I want the car least likely to piss me off. Both of them have way more wheaties than my WS6 ever did (stock), and I am sure the GT500 with a few suspension mods will handle better than I am capable of driving.

 

By piss me off, I mean break. A lot. The only long-term tests I have seen on 'vettes are pretty ugly. They are a lot like my WS6 story. Fast, handles great for the price, gets looks, in the shop more than on the street.

 

You have brought up a lot of good points, but I just don't get the "lighter" "feels different" part of things.

 

I have a G20 right now for my DD. I traded my WS6 for it. The WS6 and G20 pull similar skidpad numbers and have similar slalom speeds. Similar enough that with the worn suspension in both, it could probably go either way depending on tire-condition.

 

My G20 exits corners comfortably at about the same speed my WS6 did. It does FEEL different, but if I were to race the two through corners, it would be pretty close as long as acceleration/braking were not added to things. That is what I don't get. The GS and the GT500 both pull 1G, and they both stop in 105 feet +- depending on what day of the week it is, and they lapped VIR less than 1/2 second apart. Yet...the GS is the better handler? I don't understand. The "paper" numbers say they are equal. The track says they are equal. But the sensation of driving one over the other is saying the 'vette is better and that is what we go with? I just don't understand the reasoning behind it, considering both stock. I have a friend with a GT500, and a friend with a base C6. I plan on riding in and perhapse driving both. I think that will help a lot. Dealerships aren't fond of rolling the cars out of the show-room for you until you have money in-hand.

 

Mainly, like I said, they both perform well. I want the one least likely to mirror my WS6 ownership experience.

[kpevin]

FYI the 2011 GT500 PP beats the 2010 Corvette GS in acceleration 0-60, 1/4, lateral grip in G's and road course times. Remember the GT500 went on a diet and is 500lbs heavier then the GS not 1,000 and has an extra 125hp to boot

 

I think the GT500 will bring more smiles per dollar especially if you decide to mod since it's already fully forged with factory supercharger. I see 3+ vettes every time I leave my house and only seen two GT500's on the street since 06.

 

 

No doubt there are vettes everywhere and very few of these. People dont even pay much attention to Z06s anymore since a GS looks the same.

 

I havent seen the 2011 SVT compared to the GS by the same people like the C&D article with the 2010, if there is I'd like to read it. I still think the C6 is a better overall sports car though

[JWG223]

FYI the 2011 GT500 PP beats the 2010 Corvette GS in acceleration 0-60, 1/4, lateral grip in G's and road course times. Remember the GT500 went on a diet and is 500lbs heavier then the GS not 1,000 and has an extra 125hp to boot

 

I think the GT500 will bring more smiles per dollar especially if you decide to mod since it's already fully forged with factory supercharger. I see 3+ vettes every time I leave my house and only seen two GT500's on the street since 06.

 

 

 

First up, if I go the GT500 route, I would go with Steeda UCA/LCA, Steeda springs, Steeda adj. Panhard, Steeda CC plates, and different shocks/struts if the SVT ones are not compatable with the Steeda springs. That would run me probably $2500 or so (I am guessing, ahve not added it up accurately), and provide a great foundation for anything else I wanted to do, and get rid of the 4x4 look. Also a tune to get rid of the limp-wristed 155 limiter. I would like to run the TX mile at least once in my life.

 

You are right. The GT500 would give me the ability to mod away as I got tired of each "level" of horsepower I attained while still maintaining stock driveability and not costing an arm and a leg. The LS7 is maxxed at around 550whp if you want to still be driveable on the street and not FI it. The LS3 at around 500 or so, tad less depending on tune. Yes, the Z06 starts out faster, but putting some 335's on the GT500 and slapping a TVS on there equalizes that.

 

At any rate, I am just tired of driving a slow vehicle, and want to buy something nice that I can keep for a good few years, pay it off, own it, and not have "yesterday's news". The C4 died. The C5 is on the way out, and with the C7, the C6 will be using yester-year's technology and the ZR1 being the only one that I think will ahve any iconic "staying power". The C5 Z06 was the end-all be-all, but the C6Z relegated it to the dust-pile.

 

The GT500 still has not made the Terminator any less cool, imho.

[JWG223]

No doubt there are vettes everywhere and very few of these. People dont even pay much attention to Z06s anymore since a GS looks the same.

 

I havent seen the 2011 SVT compared to the GS by the same people like the C&D article with the 2010, if there is I'd like to read it. I still think the C6 is a better overall sports car though

 

 

Thankyou for your viewpoints. Please check your PM's in 5. Sending you '11 info from C&D. Let me know what you think.

 

Have you driven a hard-top GT500? How did it compare squeek/rattle wise to the C6? In 2010, I heard the 'vert and HT GT500 had a good bit of difference in rigidity. I would be VERY interested in comparing torsional rigidity and thousands of # to 1/2* torque between the 'vette/GT500, but I doubt anyone has access to those #'s.

[kpevin]

You're right, I kindof do have my mind made up, but if provided with compelling evidence, I am not opposed to change. I like to see all sides of things. Mainly, I want the car least likely to piss me off. Both of them have way more wheaties than my WS6 ever did (stock), and I am sure the GT500 with a few suspension mods will handle better than I am capable of driving.

 

By piss me off, I mean break. A lot. The only long-term tests I have seen on 'vettes are pretty ugly. They are a lot like my WS6 story. Fast, handles great for the price, gets looks, in the shop more than on the street.

 

You have brought up a lot of good points, but I just don't get the "lighter" "feels different" part of things.

 

I have a G20 right now for my DD. I traded my WS6 for it. The WS6 and G20 pull similar skidpad numbers and have similar slalom speeds. Similar enough that with the worn suspension in both, it could probably go either way depending on tire-condition.

 

My G20 exits corners comfortably at about the same speed my WS6 did. It does FEEL different, but if I were to race the two through corners, it would be pretty close as long as acceleration/braking were not added to things. That is what I don't get. The GS and the GT500 both pull 1G, and they both stop in 105 feet +- depending on what day of the week it is, and they lapped VIR less than 1/2 second apart. Yet...the GS is the better handler? I don't understand. The "paper" numbers say they are equal. The track says they are equal. But the sensation of driving one over the other is saying the 'vette is better and that is what we go with? I just don't understand the reasoning behind it, considering both stock. I have a friend with a GT500, and a friend with a base C6. I plan on riding in and perhapse driving both. I think that will help a lot. Dealerships aren't fond of rolling the cars out of the show-room for you until you have money in-hand.

 

Mainly, like I said, they both perform well. I want the one least likely to mirror my WS6 ownership experience.

 

 

My last C6 went to the dealer once for the glass top spiderweb cracking, cosmetic issue, that and a seat cover and HID headlight assembly, sold it at 34K miles. Not too bad really.

 

You can always find the numbers to justify any point of view with these things, I'm no fan of IRS since I'm mostly a straight line racer but if you look at the suspension between the two, overall weight and weight distribution common sense would say the vette is a potential better handling car. I'm just speaking from owning both cars and looking them both over top to bottom, lot of engineering in the vette.. I'll never road raced or drag race this car and I never did either with the C6, if I had to choose between a new GS and a new 2011 SVT GT500 today I'd probably take the vette. Even though they are all the place around here, its not a numbers or paper thing, just personal preference.

 

Like I said I'm not bashing the Shelby, the 2011 GT500 is a great car and I'm glad to see them get better every year, not so good for the 2010 and down guys but good things usually come to those who wait - usually.

[kpevin]

Thankyou for your viewpoints. Please check your PM's in 5. Sending you '11 info from C&D. Let me know what you think.

 

Have you driven a hard-top GT500? How did it compare squeek/rattle wise to the C6? In 2010, I heard the 'vert and HT GT500 had a good bit of difference in rigidity. I would be VERY interested in comparing torsional rigidity and thousands of # to 1/2* torque between the 'vette/GT500, but I doubt anyone has access to those #'s.

 

 

I drove a couple hardtop GT500s, not long enough to really notice any major rattles or squeaks, they were no doubt tighter than this vert. This one isnt bad, its a later one and has the stronger rear bracing and its definitely stiffer than my old 2007 GT vert. that car had some nasty cowl shake.

 

The C6 has its share of rattles from the plastic, I fixed most of them but it was a Z-51 car and they had a pretty stiff ride.

 

I dont know the numbers but a C5/C6 has a very strong frame, they were designed from the get go as a convertible and they dont have any cowl shake or anything like that.

 

Maybe if I had a 2011 SVT coupe it would change my mind, but to me a targa or vert is a must for a 'fun' car. While I'm sure the 2011 SVT vert is ahead of the 2010 I'm not going too spend 15-20K to find out just yet

[blazeone]

How did a thread titled traction get to a vette vs GT500 thread? I'll my as well pile on.

 

I've owned a lot of cars includes a 2008 ZO6. Got rid of it after 4 months, first off I shouldn't have bought it in the first place as I was tired of vettes. I researched Porsches, Vipers, Mustangs, etc and wound up getting the ZO6 because I could get it at employee pricing $14,000 off msrp.

 

If you want traction you definately won't get it with the ZO6, worse than the GT500 with it's stock tires. Just like the GT500 you'll need to change tires to get any decent traction.

 

I sold it and bought an 2008 viper, now the 2008 and up models come with good Michlein PS2 non-runflat tires. The Viper hooked up a lot better than the ZO6.

 

Since then I've been buying cars that satisfy my needs and are not common. Vettes are a dime a dozen here in Houston. In a city of approx. 4 million people I few countless vettes everyday in everyday traffic and it can be weeks before I see a GT500. I like that.

[JWG223]

I drove a couple hardtop GT500s, not long enough to really notice any major rattles or squeaks, they were no doubt tighter than this vert. This one isnt bad, its a later one and has the stronger rear bracing and its definitely stiffer than my old 2007 GT vert. that car had some nasty cowl shake.

 

The C6 has its share of rattles from the plastic, I fixed most of them but it was a Z-51 car and they had a pretty stiff ride.

 

I dont know the numbers but a C5/C6 has a very strong frame, they were designed from the get go as a convertible and they dont have any cowl shake or anything like that.

 

Maybe if I had a 2011 SVT coupe it would change my mind, but to me a targa or vert is a must for a 'fun' car. While I'm sure the 2011 SVT vert is ahead of the 2010 I'm not going too spend 15-20K to find out just yet

 

 

My whole 2 things against the 'vert are this.

 

When I was 19, I sent my '95 Trans Am (a great car, btw, MUCH better built than my '01) through a barbed-wire fence. 1 strand went under the car. 3 over. Everything was shredded. Had I had a targa/'vert, I would probably have been decapitated. As it was, no injury. Yeah, I have learned a lot since then, but stuff still happens. Why seatbelts are made.

 

Second, even in a car designed to be a 'vert, if it were a HT, it would be stiffer.

 

Are you saying the C6 is stiffer than the GT500 HT, or only that the C6 is adequately stiff?

[Ezareth]

My whole 2 things against the 'vert are this.

 

When I was 19, I sent my '95 Trans Am (a great car, btw, MUCH better built than my '01) through a barbed-wire fence. 1 strand went under the car. 3 over. Everything was shredded. Had I had a targa/'vert, I would probably have been decapitated. As it was, no injury. Yeah, I have learned a lot since then, but stuff still happens. Why seatbelts are made.

 

Second, even in a car designed to be a 'vert, if it were a HT, it would be stiffer.

 

Are you saying the C6 is stiffer than the GT500 HT, or only that the C6 is adequately stiff?

 

 

Your driving skills 10+ years ago shouldn't be a deciding factor in a RT/HT decision. I have to say I haven't heard a rattle yet in my convertible even at 120+mph, and from a traction standpoint I really wonder how much of a difference there is between it and a coupe. It only weights 150 lbs. more(and has 1% better F/R weight ratio) than a coupe and for the 'fun' factor a convertible can't be topped. I have also yet to see or hear of a mustang convertible that was rolled in my memory (I've owned one since '99 and have kept my eyes open for that sort of thing).

[kpevin]

How did a thread titled traction get to a vette vs GT500 thread? I'll my as well pile on.

 

I've owned a lot of cars includes a 2008 ZO6. Got rid of it after 4 months, first off I shouldn't have bought it in the first place as I was tired of vettes. I researched Porsches, Vipers, Mustangs, etc and wound up getting the ZO6 because I could get it at employee pricing $14,000 off msrp.

 

If you want traction you definately won't get it with the ZO6, worse than the GT500 with it's stock tires. Just like the GT500 you'll need to change tires to get any decent traction.

 

I sold it and bought an 2008 viper, now the 2008 and up models come with good Michlein PS2 non-runflat tires. The Viper hooked up a lot better than the ZO6.

 

Since then I've been buying cars that satisfy my needs and are not common. Vettes are a dime a dozen here in Houston. In a city of approx. 4 million people I few countless vettes everyday in everyday traffic and it can be weeks before I see a GT500. I like that.

 

 

I dont know, probably about the same way it went from Corvettes to convertibles Dont bring clown shoes into the equation lol.

 

Honestly I dont have any traction issues with this GT500, but its 100 degrees here so I'm down on power and we have some good hooking streets..

 

No doubt the C5+ vettes are common, you have 20 year olds buying C5 Z06s for 20K these days, great bang for the buck car. GM sold a bazillion of them for sure, but thats because for once there was a Corvette that handled well, looked good, was affordable, could easily daily drive it and didnt fall apart after a year like most previous years.

 

 

My whole 2 things against the 'vert are this.

 

When I was 19, I sent my '95 Trans Am (a great car, btw, MUCH better built than my '01) through a barbed-wire fence. 1 strand went under the car. 3 over. Everything was shredded. Had I had a targa/'vert, I would probably have been decapitated. As it was, no injury. Yeah, I have learned a lot since then, but stuff still happens. Why seatbelts are made.

 

Second, even in a car designed to be a 'vert, if it were a HT, it would be stiffer.

 

Are you saying the C6 is stiffer than the GT500 HT, or only that the C6 is adequately stiff?

 

 

People die in cars every day, big and small, T-top or hardtop. No doubt a hardtop is a safer car in a bad wreck, but a convertible is way safer than a motorcycle and pretty close to the open air feeling.

 

I dont have any torsional chassis deflection data between the two. But the vette has a full hydroformed frame and was designed as a convertible from the start so the roof isnt as important as a Mustang, where the convertible is a hardtop with the roof lopped off and some extra bracing added.. There is no cowl shake on a targa vette, the whole halo and windshield pllar is very stout. The squeaks and rattles to get from a C6 isnt from the chassis flexing, its from cheap plastic interior parts.

 

Your driving skills 10+ years ago shouldn't be a deciding factor in a RT/HT decision. I have to say I haven't heard a rattle yet in my convertible even at 120+mph, and from a traction standpoint I really wonder how much of a difference there is between it and a coupe. It only weights 150 lbs. more(and has 1% better F/R weight ratio) than a coupe and for the 'fun' factor a convertible can't be topped. I have also yet to see or hear of a mustang convertible that was rolled in my memory (I've owned one since '99 and have kept my eyes open for that sort of thing).

 

 

I dont think there is much difference in street traction between a couple and convertible with the same tires and suspension, like you say the vert has more weight on the rear so it should be a little better.

 

Any car can be rolled, I havent seen an SN197 on its roof but I have seen a few rolled over convertibles, and in a lot of cases people lived. You can hit your head on a hardtop roof and die too, but in a bad accident I'd rather be in a hardtop for sure. Driving is a pretty dangerous thing (my wife is a ME and I see all the interesting MVAs), not so much what you are doing but you are putting your life in the hands of thousands of strangers every day you hit the highway - a good percentage of which have no business behind the wheel of a car.

 

I agree that the fun factor of a convertible cant be topped, a lot of it depends where you live of course. We have some of the nicest mountain roads in the country, even some famous ones like the dragon, and it makes a convertible a must-have for me. But its all a choice and thats the great thing about cars, if everyone agreed on what to drive it would be pretty boring.

[JWG223]

I just don't enjoy convertables. Your points are well-made, I just don't like them as a personal preference. I think that was shaped by my experience, or maybe not. Either way, I'm just not a 'vert afficianado.

[kpevin]

I just don't enjoy convertables. Your points are well-made, I just don't like them as a personal preference. I think that was shaped by my experience, or maybe not. Either way, I'm just not a 'vert afficianado.

 

 

Neither am I really, all of my race cars have been hardtops or t-tops (even though I have seen a fair share of convertible race cars), mostly because 13.50 is the NHRA ET limit on them, where its 11.50 in a coupe. Not a big deal since most tracks will let you get away with anything at a T&T, cant do any events though unless you put a roll bar or cage in which doesnt help the looks much with the top down. Main reason I buy verts is so I dont make them into race cars

 

But I have 5 cars and a boat so the GT500 is strictly a toy car. If it was my only car I would probably rather have a coupe, but I use this to pile the wife and kids and take nice long rides. Plus with the top up its a very nice daily driver. I think the coupes look a lot better, especially with the 2010+ rear. In retrospect I probably would have been better off buying a 2011 5.0 stripper coupe to mod and a 2010 GT vert. but thats what happens when you impulse buy a car..

[JWG223]

Neither am I really, all of my race cars have been hardtops or t-tops (even though I have seen a fair share of convertible race cars), mostly because 13.50 is the NHRA ET limit on them, where its 11.50 in a coupe. Not a big deal since most tracks will let you get away with anything at a T&T, cant do any events though unless you put a roll bar or cage in which doesnt help the looks much with the top down. Main reason I buy verts is so I dont make them into race cars

 

But I have 5 cars and a boat so the GT500 is strictly a toy car. If it was my only car I would probably rather have a coupe, but I use this to pile the wife and kids and take nice long rides. Plus with the top up its a very nice daily driver. I think the coupes look a lot better, especially with the 2010+ rear. In retrospect I probably would have been better off buying a 2011 5.0 stripper coupe to mod and a 2010 GT vert. but thats what happens when you impulse buy a car..

 

That is why I am driving as many, and getting as much info, as I can on the cars that interest me. I impulse-bought my WS6 and don't plan on repeating that nightmare.

 

I remember from my time as a dealership employee that the S197 GT hard-top can take around 15.5K pounds of torsion before 1/2* of deflection is achieved.

 

Wish I could find C6 specs. All I know is the Z06 is 15% stiffer than an unknown spec for the C6.

 

I wish I had the money to play around as much as you, and later in life, maybe so. However, I am needing to measure twice and cut once this time.

 

Another consideration is that by the time Ford comes out with a new mustang body/chassis that radically differs, I will have the GT500 payed off. With GM trying to appease the market and get back in the game, the C7 is probably as near as the next 2 years. The GT500 has less potential to be out-dated as quickly, I think.

 

The S95 ran from '94-04. The S197 has run from '05-11... so far.

The C5 ran from 97-04. The C6 ran from 05-11...

 

I dare say the C6 will be out-dated before the GT500. This just means I can enjoy the GT500 longer before it becomes "last-year's thing". Not that I care much for popularity, but that I want the best of the breed within reason and it would irk me almost like the '10 GT owners must be irked about the '11 GT to own a C6 a year or so before the C7 came out.

 

I have my little 2002 Infiniti G20 for my DD, and I love the wee beast. Comfortable, reliable, reliable, reliable.