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Traction?


JWG223
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I have heard these cars have traction issues, and after looking at the tires and some dyno's, I understand that sentiment. What have you experienced, though?

 

Does the car hook from a 5mph roll if you roll hard into the throttle and floor it (not instantly, but a swift roll-on)?

 

Will it hook up all the way to redline in 1st, or does it start to spin near redline?

 

I remember back when I used to race mustangs in my WS6, I always won from a dig because on the 1-2 shift they would ALWAYS lose about 1 car due to spinning. My car wouldn't even sqeek a tire in the 1-2 shift. How much (if any) spin happens on the 1-2 in the Shelby?

 

Thanks owners!

 

(Mainly curious about the '11 SVT car as it got the suspension changes, etc. and is what I am considering)

Edited by JWG223
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Well pretty much any romp on the throttle in 1st is a waste of rubber. As for the 1-2 shift, well traction is how do I say......not there either. :hysterical:

 

And 1st is such a short gear that it rolls out really quick so not a whole lot of time to just roll into it like you are saying. To keep traction I doubt you will get it to the floor before you need to hit 2nd.

 

And as for loss of traction in 1st it depends on throttle, as boost come on almost instantly so really no room for error or.....just sliding come on pretty fast :happy feet:

 

Todd

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So basically, get ready to lose to anything on the street pretty-much unless you go from a 50+ roll in 2nd?

 

 

Correct!!!

 

j/k

 

You just have to take it easy off the line with street tires. Then get into it after you know she is going.

 

Trust me it kills that other drivers ego when you give them a start and then pull past them like they are parked.

Edited by bpmurr
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Correct!!!

 

j/k

 

You just have to take it easy off the line with street tires. Then get into it after you know she is going.

 

Trust me it kills that other drivers ego when you give them a start and then pull past them like they are parked.

 

 

The GT500 is not fast enough that I would feel confident in pulling someone after they got a hit on me. Most of the civic's and neons around here run the same times as a stock GT500 at the track. We have a 700+whp S2K rolling around and I don't think there is a single F-body without a 125 shot or a cam or something. This is a tiny southern military town next to a large Airforce base.

 

What is the widest tire that can go under it without modification? Forgestar F14's or CCW's are a thought. Nitto's NT05 comes in 20". Thoughts?

 

PS> As to a dedicated DR, NO! HECK NO! I had a friend who thought he would roll on DR's in his 'vette. 3 flips and some stitches and an angry insurance company later, and he now agrees with me that DR's are not what you want on a car that you might drive in the rain (if you are caught out, what can you do? I live in Louisiana, and sometimes you get caught in the rain. Nothing can be done but pull over, or drive in it, and it's nice not to have to pull over.)

 

From what I saw, the NT05 is not a DR, am I misunderstanding this tire?

Edited by JWG223
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So basically, get ready to lose to anything on the street pretty-much unless you go from a 50+ roll in 2nd?

 

 

 

No. You just have to practice and work on your launch (unlike auto transmissions or awd cars). Like bpmurr said you have to take it easy (feather the clutch) off the line. For instance stock: I launch at 3500rpms slightly feathering the clutch (not dumping it). Then I go with a fairly quick 1-2nd shift at around 5800ish rpms so I don't spin too much. Softer / Wider tires, adj. uca, lca, dial in the pinion angle and you can start to take off using higher rpms with less feathering. On the street no matter what you just can't dump the clutch at 5-6k and expect to "hook" and go. Some rear suspension tweaks, softer tires and practice and you'll be faster than the majority you run into.

 

In Louisiana since there aren't any hills/snow you would be ok with TC on, using common sense in the rain with DR's (some have better wet grip than others). If you can't control your left foot/emotions in the rain then you'll probably end up like your vette buddy and should stay away from DR's and plan on wider rims & tires.

Edited by jsarkis
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No. You just have to practice and work on your launch (unlike auto transmissions or awd cars). Like bpmurr said you have to take it easy (feather the clutch) off the line. For instance stock: I launch at 3500rpms slightly feathering the clutch (not dumping it). Then I go with a fairly quick 1-2nd shift at around 5800ish rpms so I don't spin too much. Softer / Wider tires, adj. uca, lca, dial in the pinion angle and you can start to take off using higher rpms with less feathering. On the street no matter what you just can't dump the clutch at 5-6k and expect to "hook" and go. Some rear suspension tweaks, softer tires and practice and you'll be faster than the majority you run into.

 

 

WIth my WS6, I could pull up to redline, slam second, and not even get a squeek.

The 05 GT my dealership co-workers and I played with would lay about 5-8' of rubber doing the same.

I saw a guy do this in a new Camaro SS and he got about 1-2 feet (A decent squeek, but not a real spin imho).

 

What does the '11 result in on this 1-2?

 

(I tend to view the redline 1-2 speed (NOT! power) shift as a good indicator of traction, as everyone launches differently, etc. comparing a launch isn't so good. Evan Smith would say it hooks great...)

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The GT500 is not fast enough that I would feel confident in pulling someone after they got a hit on me. Most of the civic's and neons around here run the same times as a stock GT500 at the track. We have a 700+whp S2K rolling around and I don't think there is a single F-body without a 125 shot or a cam or something. This is a tiny southern military town next to a large Airforce base.

 

What is the widest tire that can go under it without modification? Forgestar F14's or CCW's are a thought. Nitto's NT05 comes in 20". Thoughts?

 

PS> As to a dedicated DR, NO! HECK NO! I had a friend who thought he would roll on DR's in his 'vette. 3 flips and some stitches and an angry insurance company later, and he now agrees with me that DR's are not what you want on a car that you might drive in the rain (if you are caught out, what can you do? I live in Louisiana, and sometimes you get caught in the rain. Nothing can be done but pull over, or drive in it, and it's nice not to have to pull over.)

 

From what I saw, the NT05 is not a DR, am I misunderstanding this tire?

 

 

 

I have a set of CCW C10 wheels 18X11 rear and 18X9.5 fronts coming next week with Toyo 315X35X18 TQ DR's for the rear. My car is not a daily driver and if I get caught out in the rain I'll just hang loose if need be. I normally don't drive it when there is a good chance of rain anyway since it's no fun in the rain. BTW 20's suck for traction.

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I have a set of CCW C10 wheels 18X11 rear and 18X9.5 fronts coming next week with Toyo 315X35X18 TQ DR's for the rear. My car is not a daily driver and if I get caught out in the rain I'll just hang loose if need be. I normally don't drive it when there is a good chance of rain anyway since it's no fun in the rain. BTW 20's suck for traction.

 

I figured as much. Is there any reason 18's couldn't be put on a 2011? Would it look any different (did they change wheel-well sizes for the '10/'11/s) than on the older GT500s?

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I figured as much. Is there any reason 18's couldn't be put on a 2011? Would it look any different (did they change wheel-well sizes for the '10/'11/s) than on the older GT500s?

 

 

18's are fine, you just get the correct tire height to maintain the same rolling rpm's and effective axle ratio. 2010 and standard 2011's have the same 19" wheel. The 2011 SVT package add's 19F and 20R's.

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18's are fine, you just get the correct tire height to maintain the same rolling rpm's and effective axle ratio. 2010 and standard 2011's have the same 19" wheel. The 2011 SVT package add's 19F and 20R's.

 

 

I looked up 315/40/19 Supercar F1's and they have a tread-width of 10.2". The OEM F1 G2 285/35/20's have 10.5". Since it is the same company, I presume the tread-width measurements are done the same.

 

Where is the advantage in going to a 315 besides spending 1.5X as much?

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I looked up 315/40/19 Supercar F1's and they have a tread-width of 10.2". The OEM F1 G2 285/35/20's have 10.5". Since it is the same company, I presume the tread-width measurements are done the same.

 

Where is the advantage in going to a 315 besides spending 1.5X as much?

 

 

 

First stop looking at GY's, you do want traction correct? then get into some 18's. Nitto 555 Extremes are great tires and good in the rain. My daily driver has them and I've never had any issues with them. Read the reviews at Discount Tires website.

Edited by blazeone
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I have a set of CCW C10 wheels 18X11 rear and 18X9.5 fronts coming next week with Toyo 315X35X18 TQ DR's for the rear. My car is not a daily driver and if I get caught out in the rain I'll just hang loose if need be. I normally don't drive it when there is a good chance of rain anyway since it's no fun in the rain. BTW 20's suck for traction.

 

 

 

Please post pictures of that. I am in the same boat with my 2011. If I could buy a 305 x 19" DR I would. I think a 20" wheel will just add weight. I would love to see 18" wheels on a 2010-11.

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Please post pictures of that. I am in the same boat with my 2011. If I could buy a 305 x 19" DR I would. I think a 20" wheel will just add weight. I would love to see 18" wheels on a 2010-11.

 

 

You got it, should have them mounted and installed by this coming weekend.

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What are the physics behind an 18" wheel delivering better traction than a 19 or 20" wheel? I would think since the 19/20" is larger in diameter, there would be more longitudinal contact-patch available.

 

 

 

More side wall = traction. You'll have to search the web for the physics. A tall sidewall does help absorb some of the shock to the drivetrain. Dead hook low profile tires and watch/listen to parts break.

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18's are fine, you just get the correct tire height to maintain the same rolling rpm's and effective axle ratio. 2010 and standard 2011's have the same 19" wheel. The 2011 SVT package add's 19F and 20R's.

 

 

Not all 18's will clear the Brembos

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More side wall = traction. You'll have to search the web for the physics. A tall sidewall does help absorb some of the shock to the drivetrain. Dead hook low profile tires and watch/listen to parts break.

 

 

Okay, so it's not the rim size that matters really, but the fact that rim-size dictates side-wall height, which DOES matter. That makes a lot more sense now! Thanks!

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I will never understand the the argument people make for DR's being so dangerous in the rain. I've had DR's on almost every car I've ever owned and have NEVER had a problem even when getting caught in the rain. It's very simple, don't drive stupid in the rain and stupid shit won't happen to you. I agree that they're not good in the rain and are certainly not the best option, but when it rains take it slow and stay out of the throttle and you'll get were your going. Like I said, they are not "GOOD" in the rain, but in any car that makes more than 400 RWHP and 400 RWTQ every tire known to man aside from a F'n tractor tire is going to spin in the rain if your irresponsible with the throttle. A bias ply street slick or one of those DR's with nothing but a line cut down the middle of them; bad idea, very bad idea in the rain, but most Drag Radials are only going to be as bad as the driver. I've had three 500+ RWHP cars, one 600+ RWHP car and a whole host of 400+ RWHP cars on Nittos, BFG's, Toyos and Mickeys and all of them were driven in wet weather at least once and none of them caused my car to flip over or do anything that I didn't cause with my own manipulation... :talkhand: If a Corevette flipped over 3 times I HIGHLEY DOUBT that the essential reason was because it had drag radials on it. I've been investigating crashes for over 10 years and I can tell you that to get a car to flip over 3 times takes either a very hard hit or some pretty descent momentum and speed. :superhero:

 

Now back on track, the NT05 is the only 19" DR available right now and even that is only available in a 345 which would require at least an 11-12" wide rim. The NT05 IS absolutely a DR and from what I hear, it's one hell of a DR at that. It's not your old 555R DR, it's much more like the Mickey's and Hoosiers.

If you like the look of the stock wheels and want to keep that appearance, there are two options. You can get a set of Convertible take off wheels (2010 verts came with 18" wheels) or you can order a set of the remakes from American Muscle. That will enable you to keep the 19" stockers up front and run the 18's in the back with a larger sidewall DR. That larger side wall will actually assist your traction issues by providing a little bit of cushion and shock absorbtion, not much with a radial, but more than with a 30 series tire.

If you can get something in say a 305/40 or 295/45-18 you should be good to go, but you'll have to do your own research on tire sizes and total rolling height vs the stock set up.

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I will never understand the the argument people make for DR's being so dangerous in the rain. I've had DR's on almost every car I've ever owned and have NEVER had a problem even when getting caught in the rain. It's very simple, don't drive stupid in the rain and stupid shit won't happen to you. I agree that they're not good in the rain and are certainly not the best option, but when it rains take it slow and stay out of the throttle and you'll get were your going. Like I said, they are not "GOOD" in the rain, but in any car that makes more than 400 RWHP and 400 RWTQ every tire known to man aside from a F'n tractor tire is going to spin in the rain if your irresponsible with the throttle. A bias ply street slick or one of those DR's with nothing but a line cut down the middle of them; bad idea, very bad idea in the rain, but most Drag Radials are only going to be as bad as the driver. I've had three 500+ RWHP cars, one 600+ RWHP car and a whole host of 400+ RWHP cars on Nittos, BFG's, Toyos and Mickeys and all of them were driven in wet weather at least once and none of them caused my car to flip over or do anything that I didn't cause with my own manipulation... :talkhand: If a Corevette flipped over 3 times I HIGHLEY DOUBT that the essential reason was because it had drag radials on it. I've been investigating crashes for over 10 years and I can tell you that to get a car to flip over 3 times takes either a very hard hit or some pretty descent momentum and speed. :superhero:

 

Now back on track, the NT05 is the only 19" DR available right now and even that is only available in a 345 which would require at least an 11-12" wide rim. The NT05 IS absolutely a DR and from what I hear, it's one hell of a DR at that. It's not your old 555R DR, it's much more like the Mickey's and Hoosiers.

If you like the look of the stock wheels and want to keep that appearance, there are two options. You can get a set of Convertible take off wheels (2010 verts came with 18" wheels) or you can order a set of the remakes from American Muscle. That will enable you to keep the 19" stockers up front and run the 18's in the back with a larger sidewall DR. That larger side wall will actually assist your traction issues by providing a little bit of cushion and shock absorbtion, not much with a radial, but more than with a 30 series tire.

If you can get something in say a 305/40 or 295/45-18 you should be good to go, but you'll have to do your own research on tire sizes and total rolling height vs the stock set up.

 

 

My friend wiped out at 55mph on 1604 (San Antonio) just cruising in his '04 vette with all its electronic nannies. I am glad you have been lucky so far, but I know way to many people who have been minding their own business, cruising along under 60, when the rear end just decides it wants to trade places with the front end due to a bit of water in a "rut" on the road.

 

Nitto lists the NT05 as a street tire with 200 treadwear, and 7/32 tread. Are we talking about 2 different tires? There is an NT05R which is a DR.

 

The NT05 comes in 315/35/20, which while not optimal, should grip a lot better than 285/35/20, and at 100mph, the speedo calibration will only be off by something like 4mph in 4th per the gear calculator I ran the #'s through.

 

One time I was testing out my new tires on my WS6 6-speed in an empty Wal-Mart parking-lot in a downpour. From a roll at idle I could floor the car in 1st and it wouldn't spin the tires until I got nearly to redline. Some tires hook better in the rain than others. FWIW, my little G20 infiniti DD is more prone to hydroplaning than the 2 trans ams and mustang I have owned.

 

*The 'vette flipped 3 times due to an embankment it rolled down. It has been about a year, but as I recall, the rear-end came around, he hit a wall I belive he said, and that knocked him down the embankment, where it flipped several times. The car was totally demolished.

 

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Edited by JWG223
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I don't buy it but obviously you have your mind made up based on what you've been told by people that you clearly know way better than you know me, so that's fine. However, as I stated above, I've been investigating crashes for more than 10 years and can pretty much guarantee that I've seen WAY more than you've "heard" of. Not to include the 15 years of experience driving high HP vehicles that I have.

The bottom line is simple; drive slower in bad weather and you are VERY unlikely to have a poblem due to the tires (obviously I speak of tires that are in servicable condition). There a few factors that are found in just about every single crash I've ever investigated and one of them is fabricated truth, the other is omission of details. You "heard" that the cars just simply up and spun around, with no influence from the driver whether it be of an agressive manor or an over correction, but I can guarantee with fact of stats that there was more to the story than what you "heard" in probably every instance. Just because the speed limit is 55 MPH, DOES NOT mean that it's safe to go 55 MPH at all times. If the weather is bad and you know your on DR's, use some F'n common sense and SLOW DOWN. Car's don't swap ends for no reason, it's that simple.

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I don't buy it but obviously you have your mind made up based on what you've been told by people that you clearly know way better than you know me, so that's fine. However, as I stated above, I've been investigating crashes for more than 10 years and can pretty much guarantee that I've seen WAY more than you've "heard" of. Not to include the 15 years of experience driving high HP vehicles that I have.

The bottom line is simple; drive slower in bad weather and you are VERY unlikely to have a poblem due to the tires (obviously I speak of tires that are in servicable condition). There a few factors that are found in just about every single crash I've ever investigated and one of them is fabricated truth, the other is omission of details. You "heard" that the cars just simply up and spun around, with no influence from the driver whether it be of an agressive manor or an over correction, but I can guarantee with fact of stats that there was more to the story than what you "heard" in probably every instance. Just because the speed limit is 55 MPH, DOES NOT mean that it's safe to go 55 MPH at all times. If the weather is bad and you know your on DR's, use some F'n common sense and SLOW DOWN. Car's don't swap ends for no reason, it's that simple.

 

 

Have you driven on 1604?

 

I can tell you what happened. 1604 is full of "ruts" and when it rains, water collects. He has never driven on DR's before and probably thought that as long as he was under 60 and made no quick motions, he was fine.

 

I am betting he hit one of those ruts with water in it, hydroplaned, over-corrected, and the rest is in the picture.

 

Sure, there is more to it than the car took on a life of its own. Inexperience, driving too fast for the conditions, etc. played a major role as well. However, had he been running GSD3's or something like them, he would have most likely not had that problem.

 

My point being, I don't want to DD a car like a 'vette or GT500, but I also don't want a total pageant queen, either.

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The bottom line is simple; drive slower in bad weather and you are VERY unlikely to have a problem due to the tires Just because the speed limit is 55 MPH, DOES NOT mean that it's safe to go 55 MPH at all times.

 

 

Amen...no way I'd be cruising at 55MPH where there's standing water on the road or just after a rain storm.

 

As you say...common sense...being aware of the conditions - driving accordingly to the car that you have.

 

With that said...my last post in this thread...not getting a good feeling about this "debate" or "discussion".

 

:titanic:

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Naaa, have faith in your fellow car nuts bro, we're just having a friendly discussion that's all.

 

I respect the idea of wanting to be as safe as possible when it comes to your baby, but I also want to make sure people understand that sometimes theories and rumors get blown WAY out of proportion on the internet. People only post complaints about things that they are complaining about... You know what I mean.... Not many people post up saying "well, my tires work the way their supposed to, so nothing to report." They only post up saying "I crashed because I had DR's on my car in the rain." 9 times out of 10, those people are searching for a reason other than their own action to blame on the destruction of their ego as well as their beloved cars. Since those posts litter the forums that's all people read and the rumors and internet hype gets out of control FAAST. While I do totally agree that DR'S are NOT the ideal set of shoes for bad weather, their not going to automatically make you crash if you have them in the rain and I think that's sometimes the created idea.

That being said, if you have them and get caught in the rain, just take a few precautions and you'll be golden. A big problem with the power that muscle cars make right off the shelf now a days, is that ANYONE can get behind the wheel of one without understanding their limitations, performance characteristics or how to react to either. Don't go on a highway that you know is going to require your speeds to exceed safe operating speeds for the conditions and your equipment. Take some back roads until the weather clears up or get in the slow lane and just cruise at what you feel is a safe and controllable speed. Stay on top of the wheel and alert and you'll be fine. If its a car that you drive everyday this might be more trouble than its worth, but you ultimately are the only one that can and should make the decision based on your commute and surrounding climate. Clearly if you live in a place where it rains 5 out of 7 days a week and you drive your car daily, DR's are a bad idea. Anything that's not a rain tire is a bad idea for that matter...

 

For me, I only drive my 500 in nice weather and in the slim chance I get caught in the rain, I take it east and avoid roads that are going to put me in the way of free moving traffic. If it takes me a little longer to get where I'm going, oh well. Sometimes I truly believe that if Americans would just sow down in general sometimes, they would really have A LOT less problems in life, but that's a debate for another thread.

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I have heard these cars have traction issues, and after looking at the tires and some dyno's, I understand that sentiment. What have you experienced, though?

 

Does the car hook from a 5mph roll if you roll hard into the throttle and floor it (not instantly, but a swift roll-on)?

 

Will it hook up all the way to redline in 1st, or does it start to spin near redline?

 

I remember back when I used to race mustangs in my WS6, I always won from a dig because on the 1-2 shift they would ALWAYS lose about 1 car due to spinning. My car wouldn't even sqeek a tire in the 1-2 shift. How much (if any) spin happens on the 1-2 in the Shelby?

 

Thanks owners!

 

(Mainly curious about the '11 SVT car as it got the suspension changes, etc. and is what I am considering)

 

Describe your WS6, year, engine, transmission, mods, rwhp, tires etc?

 

If you get on the throttle hard in 1st or 2nd of the 2011 GT500 (with SVT) it will break the wheels loose. With traction control off and a heavy foot a stock 2011 GT500 won't really hook up until sometiime in 2nd. Short of a dual clutch auto matching rev's and very sophisticated traction control it is hard for me to imagine any stock 550 hp/500 lbs torque car behaving like you suggest. I've not driven a 250-300HP car with a manual that agressive shifting won't squeak the tires from 1st/2nd, let alone a 550 HP one.

 

Clearly a 2011 GT500 is limited by its tires as far as acceleration as the horse power is there and more seems readily available with easy mods. The cheap solution for traction is the driver mod as others have suggested; play the clutch and throttle to keep traction. As far as suspension, wheel and tire mods, there are numerous threads on this and other SVT/Mustang forums on any number of ways to address the traction issue. As near as I can tell no universal solution exists that makes everyone happy. The very serious types seem to go 18's and either road or drag race specific suspension mods to optimize around track only competition tires. There is an interesting thread in the SuperSnake forum on this site on having the wheels widened and what street tires will fit on the widened 19's Shelby/Alcoa's they come with. The 2011 20" SVT rear wheels have been on the street for a whole month now. Whoever blinks first gets to research and pioneer better traction options for them.

Edited by rhlgt500
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Describe your WS6, year, engine, transmission, mods, rwhp, tires etc?

 

If you get on the throttle hard in 1st or 2nd of the 2011 GT500 (with SVT) it will break the wheels loose. With traction control off and a heavy foot a stock 2011 GT500 won't really hook up until sometiime in 2nd. Short of a dual clutch auto matching rev's and very sophisticated traction control it is hard for me to imagine any stock 550 hp/500 lbs torque car behaving like you suggest. I've not driven a 250-300HP car with a manual that agressive shifting won't squeak the tires from 1st/2nd, let alone a 550 HP one.

 

Clearly a 2011 GT500 is limited by its tires as far as acceleration as the horse power is there and more seems readily available with easy mods. The cheap solution for traction is the driver mod as others have suggested; play the clutch and throttle to keep traction. As far as suspension, wheel and tire mods, there are numerous threads on this and other SVT/Mustang forums on any number of ways to address the traction issue. As near as I can tell no universal solution exists that makes everyone happy. The very serious types seem to go 18's and either road or drag race specific suspension mods to optimize around track only competition tires. There is an interesting thread in the SuperSnake forum on this site on having the wheels widened and what street tires will fit on the widened 19's Shelby/Alcoa's they come with. The 2011 20" SVT rear wheels have been on the street for a whole month now. Whoever blinks first gets to research and pioneer better traction options for them.

 

 

2001 6-speed stock WS6 with Firestone tires (These hooked best on dry, would not even squeek on a hard 1-2 shift). Before them, I ran F1GSD3's. If you rolled onto it in the rain on clean asphault, they would hook until about 5-5500 in 1st. They would chirp on the 1-2 shift in dry. While the Firestones weren't as good in the rain, and did not have as much lateral grip, I was shocked at how well they hooked in a straight line for being about 1/2 the price of the F1's and the KDW's I had on before them (which came on the car when I bought it and were not new, so I don't compare them, but they did a hair worse than the new F1's).

 

I never dyno'ed the car, but it was dead-even with every C5 I ran, beat a Z4M, killed an NSX from a roll (early year car I think), was nearly dead-even with every 426hp SS I ran, killed a 6-speed R/T Challenger, equal to a cammed/geared/full bolt-on 5-speed 2V 4.6GT 'vert, and BARELY got inched on from a roll by a supercharged 99-04GT with unknown other mods. I am guessing it had +-300whp, and was very well designed when it came to the suspension handling it (until you trie to turn, of course). About the only way to break loose the tires in-gear was wait until they were almost bald with use and then floor it from like 5K rpm in 1st all of a sudden. Other than my horsepower advantage, that was the main thing that kept it out in front of most mustangs from a low roll or a dig. I remember when I finally realized how important this was.

 

I was lined up in 1st with a 99 Cobra (later found out it was a re-built engine with CAI, raised compression ratio, etc. guy claimed it was good for 20-30whp over stock). We were pretty close in 1st, but when I hit 2nd I chirped the tires (I was on F1's with about 20K miles on them), TC cut my timing (which bogged me a bit), and then I kept going. The Cobra spun a bit, and even though my TC bogged me, I still got an instant car on him, and it stayed that way until we let off. Had he hooked on the 1-2, he might have jumped me instead, what with my TC being left on (usually just left it on as with any tread on the tires it never mattered anyway).

 

My only other experience w/cars above 300whp is my friend's 430whp GTO, which behaved about like you suggest the GT500 does after he lowered it. before, it hooked pretty well even on stock pizza-cutter sized tires, as well as a friend's 700+whp civic. On the 14psi street-tune traction would not occur until about 90 when rolled onto in 2nd, lol.

 

With a 500whp car, on 285's, I would expect that it would break loose if you stabbed the throttle in 1st and maybe even 2nd, but I would think a roll-on should hook it decently. I guess I really need to just drive one for myself. If dropping the clutch at 2500rpm results in a good launch, I don't understand why it would be considered tail-happy. I never dropped the clutch in my WS6, but I played with it enough to know that a 2500rpm side-step would send it up in smoke. (I was scared of that junky 4-cylinder rear end that I had already blown once while backing out of the driveway).

 

My car before that was indeed tail-happy. 240whp 5.0 GT w/ a 3.27 first and 4.10s and 235/55/15's as I recall the tire, and it had a 400 treadwear rating!

 

Amen...no way I'd be cruising at 55MPH where there's standing water on the road or just after a rain storm.

 

As you say...common sense...being aware of the conditions - driving accordingly to the car that you have.

 

With that said...my last post in this thread...not getting a good feeling about this "debate" or "discussion".

 

:titanic:

 

 

 

Also, yes, this 'vette was my friends first sports car. I'm just glad he wasn't hurt beyond a few minor cuts. He learned a valuable lesson at a very cheap price, all things considered.

 

I agree with you, 55mph on DR's in the rain was a no-no, ESPECIALLY on 1604. However, I used to do 60+ in the WS6 on F1's without a problem unless I was around standing water. I would prefer that capability in any car I drive. If it's that important I hook at the drag strip, I will buy some weekend-warrior rim/ET Street combo and just bolt it on the night before the drags. I am just looking for a good DD combo. Even though I don't want to DD the car, I have family and friends all over the US, and I love roadtrips. As comfortable as my Infiniti G20 is, it's boring as a 145bhp I4 automatic can be, and I love taking sports cars on road-trips. They keep me awake.

 

I am not trying to tell you "DR's ARE THE DEVIL AND WILL KILL YOU IN THE RAIN!" I am simply saying that I don't want to run a DR due to the experience of a friend (who admittedly put himself in that situation with his driving profile that day), and the intended use of the vehicle.

 

No argument or name-calling or dissing or bad-blood necessary. Just different viewpoints is all.

Edited by JWG223
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Back to street tires. If you stick with street tires in the 19s it seems you have a few good choices (I just did this). I found that the Nittos Invos (max size forget) had a nice almost 1.5" wider than stock and softer, good all around performance (the NT05's are stickier but only in a 275). The BFGoodrich KDW'2s 295/35/19 is one of the stickest off the line (I bought this one) and still has good handling and decent rain performance (tread looks awesome). Also a lot of my friends are using the Hancook V12s at 305/35-40/19 and love the overall performance for street cars and their very quite. PS2s are good also and available very large sizes but kinda pricey.

 

I took this approach for now since I like the stock rims look, I'm doing my suspension tweaks, dam near no DRs in 19s if you don't widen the rims, and I won't be over 600rwhp in the near future. Not totally hooking off the line at a 5-6k dump isn't a bad thing if your not racing imo you break a lot less stuff. Stopping the wheel hop, adding some control also minimizes breaking stuff and helps keep you straight. Hope this helps.

Edited by jsarkis
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The ws6 sounds like a fun car. General consensus among the magazine reviews is that the 2011 GT500 SVT hooks up better than earlier GT500s. Credit probably goes to the lower control arms and new tires on the svt versions the mags have tested.. As someone mentioned, the most effective launch techique developed so far seems to be something like a 2500 RMP launch with clutch feathering to get traction. I can confirm that it does work much better than a 4000+ RPM drop clutch. From a roll, I'll have to check. I don't recall much problem, but usually I've been well into 1st already or even in 2nd before getting serious and still haven't had much problem embarassing anyone who wanted to play. Except for a recent Nissan Sentra sedan, I heard him chirp the tires off the line when I looked over to see what was attempting to race, I started laughing so hard at his slow motion launch, and that he was even trying, that I forgot I should press the throttle or do do something to keep myself off the Nissan Sentra Type R boards as a kill :hysterical:

 

Anyway, most reviews now seem to indicate that the 2011 SVT GT500 is a low 12 sec car stock and that it is still somewhat traction limited given the HP it has and temprature sensitive given the supercharger doesn't like hot weather. To get into the 11's stock you would have to look at stuff like a GT-4, higher end vettes, Ferrari's and 911 Turbo. There are less driver involved ways to play in 12's, notably the BMW M3, Mercedes C series AMG, and Caddy CTS-V automatics.

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