Why despair

[Batman]

Hello fellows:

 

I read some of the posts on this forum, and to tell you the truth, I was laughing the whole time Some of you are begging, pleading, and just plain mad because Ford won't do this, or won't do that....blah, blah, blah! C'mon now fellows! I am an avid Mustang fan, and I have owned a couple of Fords, including a Mustang. But years ago, I knew it was the beginning of the end for Ford. Anytime a company "artificially" has to limit production numbers of a car to ridiculous levels to ensure decent resale values and then, on top of that, try to jam you with a market adjustment price (also known as ankle adjustment and Oh yeah!...bring your own vaseline) when you step into a Ford dealership, you know you can see the writing on the wall. Years ago when the supercharged cobra came out, a ford dealership wanted to charge me $6K over sticker. I went to two other dealerships and it was the same thing. I ended up buying a brand new BMW M3 for less than sticker!

Now Ford is about to introduce the GT500 with a "base" price of just over $40K. I say "base" price because you and I both know that this price does not include the $5K to $10K ankle adjustment price they will add on top. And this car will not even have IRS as an option? Way to go Ford!!! Don't you all just like how they go out of their way to retain and attract new customers???!!!

 

I'll tell you all who you should all be watching out for: the Dodge Challenger. DMX has made a truck load of money from the 300, so they are not cash-strapped like Ford or GM. Also when you look at the Dodge lineup, they don't really have any SRT vehicles (not trucks) between the Dodge Viper and Neon SRT-4 (will be discontinued very soon). Even with the on-coming introduction of the Challenger (around $29K base price), there will still be lots of $ room between it and the $80K Viper.

 

Folks, I'm willing to bet that in a year or two after the introduction of the Challenger, Dodge will introduce the Challenger SRT-10 with the Viper engine and drivetrain. You heard it hear first. When you think about it, it makes perfect logical sense. Car-wise, they will have a vehicle priced between the Viper and the next SRT sibbling; it would probably sticker around $40k; production levels will be much higher and not artificially limited like the GT500; it will have IRS, and you will actually be able to afford one and buy one!

[Evil95GT]

By any chance are you the SAME batman that was bitching about IRS in another thread? Or is this mere coincidence?

 

As far as your M3 purchase, congrats (or something). Not all dealers participated in the mark-up madness. In 2003, the husband and I went and worked out some #s on a brand new Sonic Blue hardtop. Mike Bass Ford did the #s for us. The window sticker was $34,995. They were even willing to a-plan the vehicle for us (which they are NOT required to do).

 

As far as Dodge, I'm confused about your SRT statement. Does the Magnum not figure into your equation? What about the Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8? Isn't there even an upcoming SRT-8 300C?

 

While I realize the "despair" you read about might be mildly entertaining to you, for those who want this car it's very frustrating. I don't find it funny in the least. Whether they're willing to pay $XXXX over sticker is really their business, based on how bad they want the car, and how devoted they are. I'm sure the whole ordeal is very emotionally draining.

[Batman]

.....may be me, may be not (I can't say for sure). Who cares! However, I don't bitch. And I'm not making fun of anyone. All I'm doing is stating the facts, and saying it the way it is. There is a reason why Porsche and BMW, for example, consistently make a profit year after year. They don't cut corners on their products. They also make enough of their "niche" products available to the masses. Until Ford, and GM recognize this, they will never make any progress, they will just regress. Thanks to the DaimlerChrysler merger, it looks like Dodge and Chrysler are turning things around for the better. Based on the number of people I know who tried to get the Cobra, including myself, that deal you got on the Cobra was an exception not the rule. I had friends who were #3 on a waiting list with a $1000.00 deposit. They waited 3 months for their Saleen or Cobra mustang and then got bumped because #8 on the waiting list was willing to pay $3K more, even though they had agreed on a set price with the dealership when they went on the waiting list. Now, that's what I call customer service at its finest!!! I might expect this at a Ferrari or Bughatti dealership, but they don't even treat their customers that way.

 

I'm sorry but when you look at the "traditional" muscle or sports car, the basic requirements are a manual transmission, rear wheel drive, and a (preferably) "coupe" (2 doors) or "sedan" (4 doors) configuration. SUV's, trucks and station wagons don't count because of excess weight which ruins performance. To elaborate, (with all things being equal), 500 horse power in a 3000 pound vehicle would be much quicker than 500 horsepower in a 4000 pound vehicle, and their would also be handling advantages too. That is the main reason why the Dodge Viper SRT-10 will annihilate the Dodge Ram SRT-10 even though they both have the same drivetrain (engine, transmission, brakes e.t.c).

 

If one decides that they just have to have that Mustang, and are willing to pay $10K over sticker for it, that is their choice. I'll tell'em go for it! All I'm saying is that there are options. I'm a car guy and I like good, performance, well-made cars. That includes acceleration, handling, and braking. For more information on what I'm talking about, just watch GT racing, SCCA racing, or sports car racing on the Speed Channel.

 

The good thing about all this is that it looks like the Ford Mustang is going to face some serious competition in the near future (Dodge Challenger, Camaro e.t.c) I'm sure you have heard the saying, "Competition improves the breed". When this starts happening, Ford will have to start paying more attention to the customer, and this includes that special ankle adjustment price.

 

When it's all said and done, we might actually be able to afford that GT500 and we will have quite a few to choose from.

 

Please make mine Silver with no stripes.

 

 

 

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By any chance are you the SAME batman that was bitching about IRS in another thread? Or is this mere coincidence?

 

As far as your M3 purchase, congrats (or something). Not all dealers participated in the mark-up madness. In 2003, the husband and I went and worked out some #s on a brand new Sonic Blue hardtop. Mike Bass Ford did the #s for us. The window sticker was $34,995. They were even willing to a-plan the vehicle for us (which they are NOT required to do).

 

As far as Dodge, I'm confused about your SRT statement. Does the Magnum not figure into your equation? What about the Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8? Isn't there even an upcoming SRT-8 300C?

 

While I realize the "despair" you read about might be mildly entertaining to you, for those who want this car it's very frustrating. I don't find it funny in the least. Whether they're willing to pay $XXXX over sticker is really their business, based on how bad they want the car, and how devoted they are. I'm sure the whole ordeal is very emotionally draining.

 

[Evil95GT]

Comparing Ford (as well as GM and Chrysler) to Porsche is about as apples-to-oranges as it gets. As a devoted, self-proclaimed Porsche fanatic, I can tell you that the substance you receive in a Porsche is a far departure from what you'll receive in anything domestic. Not to mention the exclusivity.

 

Believe it or not, I'm stoked that Chrysler is now a strong competitor. For a while, I was concerned that maybe there *wasn't* a future for them. However, I started noticing a change. When I began going to the "new car shows", I noticed that what Chrysler would prototype one year, they'd build the next. That's the DCX difference. Their prototypes eventually (usually quickly) become a mainstream reality.

 

I fully understand the horsepower-to-weight ratio point you make. Hell, it inspired me to remove over 200 pounds from my GT several years ago in the name of improved 1/4 mile times. By contrast, I'm also a person who enjoys seeing somethign different. We already have three toys in the garage. For me, I'd *love* to have a new SRT-8 Grand Cherokee. Not only is the truck dead sexxay (LOL), it also has power that might keep me pacified in the winter months when the Mustangs hibernate.

 

As far as the "competition", I believe it's absolutely 100% necessary. I was one of the few who was disappointed and almost depressed with the demise of the LS1 twins in 2002. When there's competition, it's just like you said.............it inspires them to improve the product. It'll definitely keep things interesting, and hopefully spar a new breed of horsepower wars. I totally live for that.

 

 

:happy feet:

 

P.S. Let me just say..............the second Batman intro was pretty cool. Nothing like a good, in-depth discussion!

[Orf]

Thanks to the DaimlerChrysler merger, it looks like Dodge and Chrysler are turning things around for the better.

 

 

I agree that things are turning around for Chrysler and Dodge. They have some very nice product out there.

 

Technically, it wasn't a merger. It was an acquisition, and Chrysler wasn't the one acquiring. Autoweek put it best when the said, the new corporation name was formed from the D I A M from Daimler and the L E R from Chrysler. The only reason Daimler chose to do business as DaimlerChysler was so they wouldn't lose any existing customers in the US.

 

It worked well for both sides. Daimler got increased market presence, and Chysler got the leadership it needed.

[robertlane]

Hello fellows:

 

Anytime a company "artificially" has to limit production numbers of a car to ridiculous levels to ensure decent resale values and then, on top of that, try to jam you with a market adjustment price (also known as ankle adjustment and Oh yeah!...bring your own vaseline) when you step into a Ford dealership, you know you can see the writing on the wall. Years ago when the supercharged cobra came out, a ford dealership wanted to charge me $6K over sticker. I went to two other dealerships and it was the same thing. I ended up buying a brand new BMW M3 for less than sticker!

 

 

 

Actually, BMW and Porssche purposefully limit production. They purposefully under-produce vehicles in order to keep values up.

[ford4v429]

Even with the on-coming introduction of the Challenger (around $29K base price)

 

I dunno, but Id read somewhere the challenger was gonna come out at around 42k?

[Evil95GT]

I dunno, but Id read somewhere the challenger was gonna come out at around 42k?

 

 

If that's the case, the husband can go ahead and forget about that one too. Beautiful car, but holy cow, that's alot of coin!

[Batman]

Actually, BMW and Porssche purposefully limit production. They purposefully under-produce vehicles in order to keep values up.

 

 

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...that's true but you can still get one provided you have the cash, and you don't have to worry about getting into a bidding contest. For example, Porsche doesn't mass produce the 911 turbo (like a Honda Accord) for it to sit on the dealerships lot for one to two months before it is sold. Rather, (from what I've seen), they will produce just enough to have "something" on the showroom to show to a prospective customer. Most of the time, you will have to order the car - and you get to choose what options you want. In other words, they build to order. You might have to wait quite a few months before you take delivery of your car. But at least, you already know what the cost will be.

[kaylan1521]

Not all of us who want this car want the IRS. I am one of those people.

[Evil95GT]

Not all of us who want this car want the IRS. I am one of those people.

 

 

*If* I had the money for one, I'd definitely want the solid rear axle. As stated in another post, I've used them forever, I've had success with the solid axle, and I like the fact that when I launch my car, it doesn't knock the fillings out of my teeth.

[kepfordj]

Not all of us who want this car want the IRS. I am one of those people.

 

 

Yep, I'm just fine with a solid axle.

[gt5001]

>anytime a company "artificially" has to limit production numbers of a car to ridiculous levels to ensure decent resale values ...

 

Four things:

1. Why should a manufacturer care about resale value? Should it not (particularly Ford) be concerned about producting some product/any product that will sell? Hold the flames, but the Shelby is a V6 with add ons & ole Shel's name on the deck.

2. Is there anything "on the record" from Ford about production numbers?

3. Where did the two-year cycle come from? Who says?

4. Given the reality of point 1, pray that Ford doesn't buy Budweiser!

[DutchGT500]

If that's the case, the husband can go ahead and forget about that one too. Beautiful car, but holy cow, that's alot of coin!

 

 

Now, that is a bit short sighted, Michelle. Give the man a break and let him have the car. Just sell one of yours. :do what:

 

After that you will be forever.

[crispy23c]

Batman, your facts are incorrect:

Porsche was in big trouble a few years ago. If it weren't for the Boxter, they would have been acquired/out of business. They are small enough that the one car made the difference. As far as Porsche's dealers, they have had ridiculous mark-ups in the past--I don't even need to mention what model. They frequently limit production. Further, Ford had issues allocating key componants- from suppliers- for the Shelby's production this year, it was not artificial reduction of production. Also, pricing on the Challenger is all speculation, as well as what the production model will look like (I have high hopes, though). Before you throw brickbats at Ford, get your facts straight. By the way, welcome back.

[Evil95GT]

Now, that is a bit short sighted, Michelle. Give the man a break and let him have the car. Just sell one of yours. :do what:

 

After that you will be forever.

 

 

Ya know, if he wants it bad enough, I always go with what he says anyhow, LOL. However, we have a nice little mutual agreement that clearly states "None of my shit gets sold......EVER!". Now if *he* chose to liquidate his collection, whatever makes him happy. But in all honesty, before I'd see one of my cars in the hands of someone else, I'd set them ablaze.

[DutchGT500]

Seems that you will be together for a longgggggggg time.

[Batman]

Crispy23c,

I meant over the last couple of years, not 10 years ago. Besides, I'm not keeping dates. However, the last time I checked, Porsche was making a profit. What I'm basically saying is that even with Porsche, you don't have to get into a bidding contest over a low volume vehicle like the 911 Turbo. They limit production, but you can still get one. I know this because I know people who bought these cars. I've also "shopped" them. I've never owned a Porsche (to expensive for me right now) but the 911 Turbo S is number one on my wish least. I've also shopped the Viper, and the Z06. Unlike Ford, it seems that for the most part, most of the other manufacturers have been able to walk the fine line between making a low volume vehicle available to the auto enthusiast, while at the same time being able to make a profit and maintain happy, satisfied customers. You can call me biased, but it just seems that with Ford, they always end up upsetting quite a few of those auto enthusiasts who truly appreciate these cars. They did so with the Ford GT, and they are doing so again with the GT500. I know of someone who ended up getting a Dodge Viper because a Ford dealership tried to jam him for an additional $10k on Ford GT. I have owned a BMW M3 (2002 brand new), and when it came out it was "hot". Some dealerships were charging $7000.00 over MSRP. However, they were upfront with their pricing. I found one for $1200 below MSRP. The dealership and I both agreed on the price, I gave them my $1000.00 deposit and I ordered the car. It took 3 months before I took delivery of the car - and the price never changed. I went on the BMW forums, and you hardly heard of customers or potential customers complaining about shady tactics by BMW dealerships. Something is very wrong, when you enter into an agreement in good faith with a dealership, give them your deposit and then the dealership changes it's mind later because they find out they can sell it for $10K to $15k more. This is unethical. And please don't tell me they did this due to the allocation of key components from suppliers. The only allocation they are trying to make me do is grab my ankles! What happened to honesty, integrity and trust? I know I'm not the only one who has taken a Business Law class!

As much as I like to have the GT500, I'll gladly shop the competition. If I can get the same or better performance, a better price, and better customer service with the Dodge Challenger or Camaro, you can bet my next car won't be a Ford.

 

That's why I'll continue throwing bricks, bats, brickbats e.t.c at Ford or any other dealership who I feel have unethical practices or tendencies.

 

...Now if Dodge would only bring on that Challenger with the Viper engine! :happy feet:

 

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Batman, your facts are incorrect:

Porsche was in big trouble a few years ago. If it weren't for the Boxter, they would have been acquired/out of business. They are small enough that the one car made the difference. As far as Porsche's dealers, they have had ridiculous mark-ups in the past--I don't even need to mention what model. They frequently limit production. Further, Ford had issues allocating key componants- from suppliers- for the Shelby's production this year, it was not artificial reduction of production. Also, pricing on the Challenger is all speculation, as well as what the production model will look like (I have high hopes, though). Before you throw brickbats at Ford, get your facts straight. By the way, welcome back.