LuLu Posted May 2, 2010 Report Share Posted May 2, 2010 I have been told by friends who know their stuff inside manual trannys, that all MY 2005 and up Mustangs (V-6), Mustang GTs (V-8), and Shelby GTs (V-8) share a common manual transmision, the Tremec T-3650. The SGT gets Hurst linkage. The T-3650 manual tranny has power limitations of 400 RWHP and likewise RWTQ. The weak link in this tranny is it's 10 spline input shaft and related 1-2 and 2-3 syncros. Since LuLu is makng 749 RWHP and 691 RWTQ on a DynoJet chassis dyno, I am very concened about this news. Inasmuch as many of y'all are likewise "pumped up" with various power adders, we should spend a few moments discusing this limitation and what it means to us...Down the road. I know there is a TSB on the 2007MY MGT (and SGT) and I've read through the details. This TSB calls for replacement parts i.e.new input shaft and improved syncros, all for smoother shifting. However it's all still stock OEM 10 spline stuff, and the weakness prevails despite this rebuild. Thus, this TSB is a repair for trannys so affected by hard shifting, but not much of a improvement in durability against power when re-matched with high output HP/TQ, and/or aggressive driving. I also recall that my Shelby owner''s manual that came with LuLu cautioned me against "hole shots" and "power, or, speed shifting". Now I understand why. And, with the power LuLu is puting down on the dyno right now, I shouldn't waste any time in addressing this particular and potential weak point in the drivetrain. I have also learned from my friends that Tremec has two upgrade kits available for the T-3650, one for 500 RWHP and another for 600 RWHP, but both are pricey IMHO. $2625.00 and $2850,00 respectively. This is dollars for parts alone, and more an "upgrade" kit as well, meaning that it will not repair a failed transmission, rather, jjust prevent extensive damage to a relatively healthy unit. So much like an automotive "flu shot", eh? Moreover, I have been advised to pull my T-3650 before it comes apart, and replace it with the Tremec TR 6060 six speed tranny, which has a 28 spline input shaft, and some other very heavy duty goodies inside as well. To my benefit, a solid and working T-3650 5 speed tranny available for sale (rather than broke) is good for me, and (considering our "summer" gasoline costs today), one more overdrive gear at my disposal is likewise good for me. An early swap is likely, alas, no Hurst shifter available for this new combination, and a transitation from hydraulic to cable operated clutch systems darkens the sky above me. Seems I have painted myself into a corner. The TR 6060 is used in the Corvette Z06, the Cadilliac CTS-V, and the Dodge Viper. All of these automobiles put down some real power, and one of them could be considered to be in the "heavy car" class (another problem in and by itself). From what I have read lately on the "www", this appears to be true 411. The cost of a new TR 6060 tranny is around $3100.00, not including shift linkage, 28 spline clutch plates (LuLu has two) revised drive shaft yoke, as well as shipping and install costs. Add it up, gents, and we're looking at $4000.00+ to walk this way. Trust me...I'd love to set these thoughts down and walk away. I do not need this kind of worry this late in the game. However, another train of thought comes to mind, and that train is labeled "warranty". It never made sense toi me why Shelby would offer us "low" powered centrifugal (Paxton) and posiive displacement (Whipple) supercharger kits for our SGTs and SGT-H editions, and promise us a full drivetrain warranty when installed by Shelby, or, one of it's authorized dealers, or, a certified Ford service center. It occurs to me now, that this "comforting" offer is more of an illusion, than it is fact. It is true I have not posted a lot lately, but I do read. Not once, yet, here, have I read anything from anyone who toasted./ windowed a stock 4.6L-3V engine from an SGT, and earned a full warranty replacement. The superchager kits offered are somewhat "lame" (IMHO) for the money they cost (and the hoops you have to jump through), and now I am beginning to understand why. From low to mild boost, with no intercooling, and on to air-to-air, and then on to water to air, and so on, depending on your needs and selections...Jeeze! One way, you have some warranty protection, but travel another path ever so slightly, and you end up with squat. I apoligize for my comments, didn't mean to start any "wars". Just yapping to myself about my tranny concerns. Y'all drive safe, haopy motoring, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorjock205 Posted May 2, 2010 Report Share Posted May 2, 2010 Damn Mac! 749 RWHP and 691 RWTQ??? What the hell have you done to LuLu??? I haven't seen any writeup on what all you've done, but it sounds very serious....What are your plans for her? It sure doesn't sound as if she's going to be a daily driver any more... Honestly, I think almost everyone forgets about the clutch and transmission when doing a S/C or Turbo installation...unfortunately, they are usually reminded pretty soon afterward...Thanks for the information on this as I most certainly was not aware of it for sure. Carl P.S. Please elaborate some more on your build....inquiring minds are dying to know I'm sure.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueone Posted May 2, 2010 Report Share Posted May 2, 2010 My 3650 didn't hold up at 617 rwhp at 18psi on a MD1750 and I replaced it with the 6060 and the Shelby shifter, I'm making a little more power now at 21psi but I don't have the sheet to back it up yet since the work on my car was finished on a Friday before a race and I didn't want to leave it until Monday for an all out pull. The 6060 has not dissappointed at all and is night and day a better trans than the 3650, I got out at about $4000 including labor,shifter and plate, the kit I bought at Promotion included a PST aluminum DS. It's been one of best mods I have done. http://www.promotionpowertrain.com/NEW_05_08_MUSTANG.html http://www.pstds.com/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted May 2, 2010 Report Share Posted May 2, 2010 'blueone' warned me about this same problem a couple months ago. I've chosen to overlook it for now. Hopefully my 5 speed hangs in there for the rest of the year, so that I enjoy my build for awhile. But the 6060 is on my future mod list and would make a good winter project next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBRA SCOTTY Posted May 2, 2010 Report Share Posted May 2, 2010 My 3650 didn't hold up at 617 rwhp at 18psi on a MD1750 and I replaced it with the 6060 and the Shelby shifter, I'm making a little more power now at 21psi but I don't have the sheet to back it up yet since the work on my car was finished on a Friday before a race and I didn't want to leave it until Monday for an all out pull. The 6060 has not dissappointed at all and is night and day a better trans than the 3650, I got out at about $4000 including labor,shifter and plate, the kit I bought at Promotion included a PST aluminum DS. It's been one of best mods I have done. http://www.promotionpowertrain.com/NEW_05_08_MUSTANG.html http://www.pstds.com/index.htm I have one question what internal upgrades have you added to protect your motor from gernading with that much rwhp ? Scotty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueone Posted May 3, 2010 Report Share Posted May 3, 2010 I have one question what internal upgrades have you added to protect your motor from gernading with that much rwhp ? Scotty COMP CAMS VALVE SPRINGS BEEHIVE STAINLESS STEEL FERREA EXHAUST VALVES STAINLESS STEEL FERREA INTAKE VALVES BULLITT RACING CUSTOM GROUND BLOWER CAMSHAFTS ARP 256-4202 2000 SERIES HEAD STUDS FULL PORTWORK 3V HEADS VALVE JOB, CUT SEATS FOR OVERSIZED VALVES ABOVE IS ALL HEAD WORK AND HEAD PARTS STEEL COBRA 8 BOLT CRANK MANLEY H-BEAM W/ ARP 2000 BOLTS PISTONS CP/MOD MAX 14CC DISH FILE FIT MOLY RINGS FORD RACING OIL PUMP ARP MAIN STUDS BORE AND TORQUE PLATE HONE BALANCE ROTATING ASSEMBLY 93 pump gas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBRA SCOTTY Posted May 3, 2010 Report Share Posted May 3, 2010 COMP CAMS VALVE SPRINGS BEEHIVE STAINLESS STEEL FERREA EXHAUST VALVES STAINLESS STEEL FERREA INTAKE VALVES BULLITT RACING CUSTOM GROUND BLOWER CAMSHAFTS ARP 256-4202 2000 SERIES HEAD STUDS FULL PORTWORK 3V HEADS VALVE JOB, CUT SEATS FOR OVERSIZED VALVES ABOVE IS ALL HEAD WORK AND HEAD PARTS STEEL COBRA 8 BOLT CRANK MANLEY H-BEAM W/ ARP 2000 BOLTS PISTONS CP/MOD MAX 14CC DISH FILE FIT MOLY RINGS FORD RACING OIL PUMP ARP MAIN STUDS BORE AND TORQUE PLATE HONE BALANCE ROTATING ASSEMBLY 93 pump gas I have been thinking about having Tasca Ford build my motor. Who built your motor and how much did they charge ? THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR INFO. SCOTTY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tispco Posted May 3, 2010 Report Share Posted May 3, 2010 My trans is pretty much toast in the convertible. It definitely needs the TSB, but Ford would not cover it. I have seen new take off 3650's for less than a grand. I am hoping now that all the 2011 Mustangs have six speeds, they will be a little cheaper and I can install one on a '07. Mine never shifted great from day one and now it is very difficult to shift into second and third, just as the TSB states. It really takes away from the fun and I am not driving it as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted May 3, 2010 Report Share Posted May 3, 2010 My trans is pretty much toast in the convertible. It definitely needs the TSB, but Ford would not cover it. I have seen new take off 3650's for less than a grand. I am hoping now that all the 2011 Mustangs have six speeds, they will be a little cheaper and I can install one on a '07. Mine never shifted great from day one and now it is very difficult to shift into second and third, just as the TSB states. It really takes away from the fun and I am not driving it as much. Did you get a quote from Ford on how much they'd charge to fix? What about an outside trans shop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tispco Posted May 3, 2010 Report Share Posted May 3, 2010 Did you get a quote from Ford on how much they'd charge to fix? What about an outside trans shop? One of my son's Little League coaches owns an Aamco transmission shop and I will have him do the work. I have not had a chance to get a quote from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted May 3, 2010 Report Share Posted May 3, 2010 What happened to the new T-56 6-speed that Tremec was supposed to build to adapt to the 05-10's? (The one that was somehow able to eliminate the remote shifter unique to the S197's) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted May 3, 2010 Report Share Posted May 3, 2010 Here's what I found on the new T-56 Magnum. Sounds like it's going to be well worth holding out for. They were shooting for a Summer '10 release. It's been pushed back to the 4th quarter. http://s197.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27826 http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/onlineorder/pdf/TRMC_R3_0210_198.pdf TREMEC® UNVEILS NEW ‘DIRECT SHIFT’ 6-SPEED FOR S197 MUSTANG APPLICATIONS Plymouth, Michigan- Coming in the summer of 2010, the leader in manual transmission technology, TREMEC®, is set to release a brand new high performance 6-speed aimed specifically at the 2005-up Ford Mustang market. The T-56 MagnumTM for S197 Mustang applications represents a long awaited solution to the semi-remote shifters woes that are now prevalent in late-model performance vehicles—while offering all the high performance benefits TREMEC’s Magnum line-up is so well known for! Designed primarily around the S197 Mustang chassis, TREMEC’s new Magnum model achieves what previously only numb and inaccurate semi-remote shifters could; giving 05-up Ford Mustang enthusiasts perfect in-cabin ergonomics along with all the performance benefits of a direct shift gearbox. Additionally, TREMEC’s new ‘S197 Magnum’ features a slip yoke interface for use with a 1-piece driveshaft, adds the ability to adapt to a ‘blow-proof’ bellhousing, and the eliminates the skip-shift feature slated to arrive in 2011 models of the Mustang GT. As an aftermarket variant of the same transmission used in all Shelby GT500’s, this brute performance 6-speed offers incredibly precise, short and crisp shifts along with a generous 700-lb ft. of torque capacity for the ultimate street performance setups. TREMEC is even offering the new S197 Magnum with two unique sets of gear ratios for a truly custom tailored ownership experience. Add to that TREMEC’s existing line of T-56 Magnums for Modular engine applications, and TREMEC has nearly any Modular-powered install that enthusiasts can dream up covered! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500-07 Posted May 3, 2010 Report Share Posted May 3, 2010 so Mac, now that you have a dyno on Lulu when are you going to let us know what mods you have done to get to the 700 club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500-07 Posted May 3, 2010 Report Share Posted May 3, 2010 I have been thinking about having Tasca Ford build my motor. Who built your motor and how much did they charge ? THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR INFO. SCOTTY have you talked to Livernois? they are in MI also and have real close ties to FR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBRA SCOTTY Posted May 8, 2010 Report Share Posted May 8, 2010 have you talked to Livernois? they are in MI also and have real close ties to FR. I like the guys @ Livernois , however I wanted to stay with a mod shop to keep it officially Upgraded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500-07 Posted May 8, 2010 Report Share Posted May 8, 2010 I like the guys @ Livernois , however I wanted to stay with a mod shop to keep it officially Upgraded. if your that concern about that, you might want to talk to the new Shelby Speed Shop or SHM. SA and SHM were to come out with new Shelby mod motors when they first announced them as a new mod shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted May 9, 2010 Report Share Posted May 9, 2010 ^A fully built SA mod motor would be badass! My hopes aren't that high for the new speed shop, but if they built a crate mod, I might have to buy one just for a spare! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stkjock Posted May 11, 2010 Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 why not just upgrade your current tranny, Hanlon in PA or Promotion in FL will upgrade your 3650 for 1400-1600 depending on what you want done, to handle 700hp IIRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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