SGT/SC#0471 Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 I for one cant wait to get the car on the track head to head with a SGT to see just we have here. If you beleive Gary P. and many at Shelby, its not even close in performance translation on a road course. I believe him, I have seen him drive many cars. I did hear that they put the prototype up against the now defunct SR package car and a KR, and the 350 blew them off the track. Not doubting what you heard or what was experienced but on paper this makes no sense...especially against a 550 whippled SGT/SC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 ^What does a GT-350 weigh anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubbsFaris Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 Not doubting what you heard or what was experienced but on paper this makes no sense...especially against a 550 whippled SGT/SC. What paper Randy? the one you roll and smoke? A 550 hp sgtsc is the same as a 550 HP GT350...only the GT350 is lighter with better steering. Naturally aspirated vs a SGTSC would be different story, but then you are talking about a money swing as well...cheaper GT350 than a SGTSC.... ^What does a GT-350 weigh anyway? I still havent seen the actual number on that, tho I sure have looked...just hearing it is lighter by 100#...be nice to get that info, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportscars Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 From www.MotorTrend.com for a FULLY LOADED GT: 2011 Mustang 5.0 (4th gear pull, 15% powertrain loss) Claimed horsepower: 412 hp @ 6500 rpm Claimed torque: 390 lb-ft @ 4250 rpm Actual horsepower: 435 hp 6500 rpm Actual torque: 404 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm Curb Weight: 3620 Weight Dist: 55/45% From www.media.ford.com: BASE CURB WEIGHT (POUNDS) Manual transmission 3,605 (est.) Automatic transmission 3,653 (est.) Weight distribution (f/r) 54/46 (est.) So it looks like it will weigh about 3600 lbs +/- 25lbs and put out 435HP (370 or so at the wheels) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC#0471 Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 What paper Randy? the one you roll and smoke? A 550 hp sgtsc is the same as a 550 HP GT350...only the GT350 is lighter with better steering. Naturally aspirated vs a SGTSC would be different story, but then you are talking about a money swing as well...cheaper GT350 than a SGTSC.... I still havent seen the actual number on that, tho I sure have looked...just hearing it is lighter by 100#...be nice to get that info, huh? It aint that much lighter...and the 07-09 550 kit is light on the rating...we will see. The s/c gains on the 5.0 I doubt can be pushed as far due to comp ratio but what do I know. I'm just a backyard wrench...smokin welding fumes 100lbs is equal to 10hp on a car so that aint poop dude. In fact my car weighed in at 3605 with the SC and 19" wheels and tires that grip.... Really what are you smokin if a stock '10 weighs 3640 without the SC etc...? Bench racing orders of magnitude difference seems odd to me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC#0471 Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 in fact Dubbs Chads car is slower yet as his is a vert with a 200+ pound disadvantage.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 in fact Dubbs Chads car is slower yet as his is a vert with a 200+ pound disadvantage.... Well that and CHAD is the driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportscars Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 Well that and CHAD is the driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 2011 GT curb weight = 3620? 2008 GT curb weight varies depending on the source, but regardless of which # you pull, they all seem to come in lower than the 2011. Edmunds = 3356 http://www.edmunds.com/used/2008/ford/mustang/100893416/specs.html Yahoo = 3450 http://autos.yahoo.com/ford_mustang_gt_deluxe_coupe-specs/?p=ext AOL = 3483 http://autos.aol.com/cars-Ford-Mustang-2008/available-trims/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMcGuirk Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 2011 GT curb weight = 3620? 2008 GT curb weight varies depending on the source, but regardless of which # you pull, they all seem to come in lower than the 2011. Edmunds = 3356 http://www.edmunds.c...3416/specs.html Yahoo = 3450 http://autos.yahoo.c...pe-specs/?p=ext AOL = 3483 http://autos.aol.com...vailable-trims/ They look like 6 cyl numbers to me. My GT with Shaker 1000, full tank and Whipple is 3650 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpow96 Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 They look like 6 cyl numbers to me. My GT with Shaker 1000, full tank and Whipple is 3650 That would agree with the much despised (around here) Car and Driver number of 3540 for the 2007 SGT based on one of their road tests. -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpow96 Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 As for NA 3V's putting down 400+ rwhp, I have seen it only a couple of times, and nowhere on this forum. I made just a hair over 350 rwhp NA, before finally strapping on the Paxton. At that point, I had every imaginable bolt on part installed. To make anymore power beyond that without a blower or NOS, I would have had to do some pretty extensive work (heads, stroke, bore, etc). So in my opinion, the Coyote ought to be a much better NA platform than the 3V. Thanks for the correction, Ken. I want to get my numbers straight. So with some additional serious work (lets say heads in addition to all the mods you did), the 4.6 is getting close to the rwhp of the Coyote. Now my SGT can stay with a 2011+ GT Mustang (and presumably a mildly modified N/A GT350 given SA's precedence of not messing with internal engine components). Not much of a value compared to the Coyote Mustangs, but I like my SGT body and compared to the cost of a proposed N/A GT350, I'll be happy. I also believe that they've engineered that Coyote engine so well that more N/A mods will not produce much more power. For those of you who are thinking, why bother with that N/A cost when a supercharger will provide the ultimate bang for the buck, the race classes I'm participating this year and in the future are much more N/A friendly. -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC#0471 Posted April 24, 2010 Report Share Posted April 24, 2010 Time will tell... Post the results when you get your 350, or maybe SAI will, I agree that SAI is very magical but the laws of physics are hard to beat on paper anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWEDEMAN Posted April 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2010 Time will tell... Post the results when you get your 350, or maybe SAI will, I agree that SAI is very magical but the laws of physics are hard to beat on paper anyway. Agreed time will tell. In the years that have passed FORD is not a company that limits in enthusiasts, especially Mustang enthusiasts, to no or very little engine modifications. It is rather the exact flip side, they want you to put more Fomoco mods on the car/engine as it is part of the strategy to get us to spend money on high priced extras, kind of like buying candy when your already in the check out line! So we'll wait and see but by .02 cents is betting Ford will make several mods for the engine available along with other companies to boost the HP. That being said, as always so far, the SC is the best bang for the buck but when you already have 412++ hp in the bank one might not require much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted April 24, 2010 Report Share Posted April 24, 2010 Agreed time will tell. In the years that have passed FORD is not a company that limits in enthusiasts, especially Mustang enthusiasts, to no or very little engine modifications. It is rather the exact flip side, they want you to put more Fomoco mods on the car/engine as it is part of the strategy to get us to spend money on high priced extras, kind of like buying candy when your already in the check out line! So we'll wait and see but by .02 cents is betting Ford will make several mods for the engine available along with other companies to boost the HP. That being said, as always so far, the SC is the best bang for the buck but when you already have 412++ hp in the bank one might not require much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWEDEMAN Posted April 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 Final thoughts - If they do build a GT350, inwhich it now sounds as if it is a done deal, the bottom line is what will the final hp be? If they take the car and add "just" the suspension mods and leave the hp to "just" a cold-air and a tune to add a measly 25HP, it won't make it. Even though the GT350 would already have 412+ hp in the bank, so does a regular "Mustang GT"! So if SA wants to really put this car on the road and on the map it must add at least 70 more hp than a Mustang GT has or it will be another Shelby GT that some of us:) have not liked very much, hp power that is. So SA it is up to you to make this happen, either pump the N/A car up to 480 HP @ the crank or your N/A version will be dead before it starts. Because why would someone buy a GT350 N/A when they could save $15K++ on a Mustang GT with the same exact hp, ofcourse without SHELBY name on the side? END. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmn444 Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 Now wait a minute! It's much more than just the name on the side! it's on the back, front, top, and inside too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springer Posted April 26, 2010 Report Share Posted April 26, 2010 I believe the generally accepted weight to power loss is 1 HP per 7 lbs. If you have a car that is 200 pounds heavier than another car, you've loss 29 HP. 300 pounds and you've loss 43 HP. ( I believe the new Mustangs are close to 200 pounds heavier than the SGT's.) As far as a GT 350 being much more rare than a GT/SC, I don;t see it - unless Shelby only produces approximately 100 GT 350's - which I believe is close to the number of GT/SC's that have been converted by Shelby and their mod shops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of GT Posted April 26, 2010 Report Share Posted April 26, 2010 Regarding the availabilty of NA GT350's...right from the new sales flyer: $33,995 Base price for supercharged. $26,995 Base price for naturally aspirated. H.P. and performance specs are not listed for either version. Although not stated on the flyer, superchargers will not be available with automatics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted April 26, 2010 Report Share Posted April 26, 2010 ^OUCH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobrakalas427 Posted April 26, 2010 Report Share Posted April 26, 2010 Regarding the availabilty of NA GT350's...right from the new sales flyer: $33,995 Base price for supercharged. $26,995 Base price for naturally aspirated. H.P. and performance specs are not listed for either version. Although not stated on the flyer, superchargers will not be available with automatics. Strange that it's only a $7K reduction in price for N/A when the cost to S/C an SGT is over $10K...I would've thought at least $8K-$9K less. Maybe cams and new heads will be part of the N/A version... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmor Posted April 26, 2010 Report Share Posted April 26, 2010 I did not think SA would build a n/a gt350, simply because by definition the gt350 is now, or at least appeared to be, a supercharged vehicle. They should name such a vehicle something else...like GT300 or something. I think gt350 should be reserved for the cars the gt350 owners are now buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of GT Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 Strange that it's only a $7K reduction in price for N/A when the cost to S/C an SGT is over $10K...I would've thought at least $8K-$9K less. Maybe cams and new heads will be part of the N/A version... Shelby can't install new heads or cams because they are considered a manufacturer and as such, they are subject to EPA, CARB, and DOT mandates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportscars Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 SEE!!! Told you I would make a call and it would be done. Why do you people doubt me??? Personally, I'd go N/A over S/C as you can always add the S/C back in later. That way you get to spend some time with the car while the aftermarket catches up and starts to come out with new options for the 5.0 If nothing better jumps up after a year or two then you can go with the S/C. Plus you get to wait and see how the 5.0 holds up to forced induction. Another issue is if you track your car, the S/C is going to put you in a class where you probably dont want to be. A N/A car will be much more competative in a stock class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmn444 Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 HMMMMM, I wonder if the new speed shop will fall into place here.... And about the racing classes, won't the GT350 be in a modified class anyway since it's post title upgrades? I don't really know how many diff classes there are, but I'm assuming it can't compete in stock like the SGT, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpow96 Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 HMMMMM, I wonder if the new speed shop will fall into place here.... And about the racing classes, won't the GT350 be in a modified class anyway since it's post title upgrades? I don't really know how many diff classes there are, but I'm assuming it can't compete in stock like the SGT, right? In bone stock race classes, no it can't compete with the SGT or properly optioned 2011 5.0 Mustang. However, its N/A options are plentiful and offers a better chance of being competitive without breaking the bank and gutting the car: Autocross: E Street Prepared, C Prepared Drag (NMRA): Pure Street Road: American Iron -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC#0471 Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 Regarding the availabilty of NA GT350's...right from the new sales flyer: $33,995 Base price for supercharged. $26,995 Base price for naturally aspirated. H.P. and performance specs are not listed for either version. Although not stated on the flyer, superchargers will not be available with automatics. And to think people were complaining on the old forum about the SGT cost at SAI... 27k is a ton of coin....or a really cool vintage Mustang. edit: emoticon added, 2nd edit: explaination added.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubbsFaris Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 Enis, where did you get the new flyer? I didn't expect this to be announced until Roger gets back. Any other options or changes? I'm counting my loose change up since my car is shipping!!! I have questions about getting SC, even if you aren't getting the full discount. I know SA will make it right if there is a problem, but do I have to take the car back to Vegas if there is? Conservativemight be better living where I do. Wouldn't be a problem if I lived on the west coast. Glad it is official though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC#0471 Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 Warren why would you not get the SC? Its not a big difference in price.... Unless you are racing, I do not understand why you would not get the SC car. And if you were racing for the dough there are quite a few race cars available that would smoke it on a track for 35k...in the classes it could compete in. So as a race car it makes little sense to me,....track day sure, but race car .... no. And again why not the SC in that case as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubbsFaris Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 Valid question Randy... I certainly dont want to cast doubt on the build or the people that have been working on this project, but lets just say I have heard concerns about the compression ratio of the 5.0, and I am a little worried about the long term pressures on the engine. If I had a problem with it, what would I do? Go to my local Ford dealer? Park the car till my next trip to Vegas? Ship it out there on my dime? Plus, what kind of SC options will there be down the road? What other work could I do to the engine compnents to get close to 500 HP anyway, and would I still be able to do some of those things if it is already SC'd? I havent made up my mind, but the car is on its way and I guess I need to shortly.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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