Old Fashion Sales vs. The Modern way

[ColdwaterHotrod]

I thought a poll was in order to see what the masses are thinking about this?

[ColdwaterHotrod]

Low voting, but very interesting! :burnout:

[rpretzel]

Interesting to see to the polarization on the dealer markup issue...we're really an 'all or nothing' group here, aren't we?

[Orf]

I voted "Yes" and "Anything Goes".

 

In my scenario on the other thread, I had said Ford should build the dealer's cut into the MSRP. The dealer who accepts the delivery, gets the cut. If the dealer can add some type of service that the customer finds valuable, sell it.

 

Hey, as it is, a dealer can ask anything they want for a vehicle. Somebody might pay that, or not. Just don't backpedal on a price, even if it was just verbal. We don't need written contracts for everything, do we?

[rpretzel]

...Just don't backpedal on a price, even if it was just verbal. We don't need written contracts for everything, do we?

 

 

Exactly! What ever happened to the old fashioned hand-shake deal?

[Evil95GT]

I voted 1%-5% and that yes, I would order right from the manufacturer.

 

I wouldn't call my situation unique by any means. We're middle class, modest income, 3 kids. While I'd love to have a new GT500 (and so would the husband), we need to cover a daily driver before we think about any further toys. We have three Mustangs to play with, a '62 Dodge that has been immobile since the early 80s, and a 1 of 11 Kellison kit car from the 50s.

 

That being said, *if* I was a filthy rich individual, I wouldn't buy in to the gouging that we're seeing right now. I can remember going to buy our SVT Focus in 2003, and seeing a regular Mach 1 (2004 model) selling for $8K over as a "dealer adjustment". :do what: I thought surely that must be wrong, so I questioned the salesman.............he said "well, that's because it's rare". Maybe it's just me. While I liked them, and they were nice, I never saw them as "rare".

 

Same deal with Marauders. That's one of the only cars I ever asked for and never received (yep, he'll hear about this forever). The ones we found were all $5K over and up. By the time they marked them down to get rid of them, our needs were already covered.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that while I feel the GT500 is the hottest thing out there, I'm definitely not equipped to pay tens of thousands over sticker. If I was, I still don't think I'd pay what the blood-thirsty dealers are demanding.

[ColdwaterHotrod]

This is starting to get interesting...

[robertlane]

I wonder why Apple Computer has their own stores (physical), website + dealers - yet Ford cannot do the same?

[Five Oh B]

I wonder why Apple Computer has their own stores (physical), website + dealers - yet Ford cannot do the same?

 

 

Robert, you already know the answer to that question. Please don't fuel the fire here. Jacque Nasser tried with FordDirect a few years back and was shut down by the Franchise Agreement that is set in stone with the Ford dealer body.

[ColdwaterHotrod]

B)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Mar 18 2006, 01:16 PM) 5529[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

Robert, you already know the answer to that question. Please don't fuel the fire here. Jacque Nasser tried with FordDirect a few years back and was shut down by the Franchise Agreement that is set in stone with the Ford dealer body.

 

 

 

Hear you go again, defending the dealer body. Why? Message boards are for discussion & thats what were doing here to pass the time until cars start hitting the streets.

 

Set in STONE? Thats funny! Stones can be polished to look like a gem or they can be crushed because their too big. 4000 FORD dealers are not going to control how 230 million people buy new cars.

 

Now that I think about it....I have seen a trend of many smaller FORD, LINCOLN & MERCURY dealerships being bought up so they are part of a BIGGER Automotive Investment Group who then dictates prices to us & that's not right either (can you say Monopoly? I thought so.). They say it's to have better buying power so they can make more money & keep the prices low, but when it comes to a car people want (like the SHELBY) it the same old song & dance about "It's rare or Limited" or "It's the last one I can get".

 

I have asked you before & never got a responce...Where can I get this so called Franchise agreement so I can read it? My local dealer I just came back from just turned & walked away refusing to talk about it.

 

Do you have a contact name at FORD? I'm entertaining the thought of opening up a NEW FORD DEALERSHIP & I'll call it Honest John's FORD..... where you never pay more than MSRP.

[Five Oh B]

B)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Mar 18 2006, 01:16 PM) 5529[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

Robert, you already know the answer to that question. Please don't fuel the fire here. Jacque Nasser tried with FordDirect a few years back and was shut down by the Franchise Agreement that is set in stone with the Ford dealer body.

Hear you go again, defending the dealer body. Why? Message boards are for discussion & thats what were doing here to pass the time until cars start hitting the streets.

 

I'm not defending anything. I'm simply pointing out that Robert Lane asked a VERY rhetorical question. He knows damn well what the answer is and his asking it as if he honestly didn't know only adds fuel to the fire. Do any of you know who Robert Lane is? Anyone know his history of litigation against Ford Motor Company? I'm sure he'd be happy to chime in here and explain it to any of you that haven't been in the Mustang community long enough to understand what I'm talking about. Of course, Robert may have had to sign a gag order with Ford about talking about past litigation that he initiated against Ford as there was some sort of settlement on the subject.

 

 

Now that I think about it....I have seen a trend of many smaller FORD, LINCOLN & MERCURY dealerships being bought up so they are part of a BIGGER Automotive Investment Group who then dictates prices to us & that's not right either (can you say Monopoly? I thought so.).

 

I suggest you read the Sherman Anti-Trust Act to brush up on the definition of a MONOPOLY, as none of what you said above constitutes a monopoly. Now, if a single company bought up every single car dealership of every single brand in a geographic region (probably nationally in today's ever shrinking world) and was fixing prices because they were the only game in existence, then that would be a monopoly.

 

 

I'm entertaining the thought of opening up a NEW FORD DEALERSHIP & I'll call it Honest John's FORD..... where you never pay more than MSRP.

 

 

Look at our website: www.BowenScarff.com. Search our new car inventory and you'll see that every single new Ford we have for sale (currently 367 on our lot today) is priced below MSRP. Every single one! Most are priced near invoice, many below invoice. I wonder if it's too late to buy the URL "www.HonestBrian'sFord.com."?

 

I have asked you before & never got a responce...Where can I get this so called Franchise agreement so I can read it? My local dealer I just came back from just turned & walked away refusing to talk about it.

 

 

I have no clue where to find a copy of it. I don't own a Ford dealership - never have - never will. Check www.google.com.

[ColdwaterHotrod]

Five Oh B,

 

I never said you or the dealership you work for was dishonest. If your boss decides that he must mark them down because the model years over (2006) & your making room on your lot for the 2007 models, thats the norm of the business come January, February & March. (Tax Time year end sales)

 

I think it safe to say we both agree to disagree on this issue & I do respect your opinion being your doing this everyday.

 

Please don't feel like I'm attacking you....I'm pissed because my local dealer is screwing me over & selling to someone else farther down the list without honoring his word for the last 9 months because he someone else willing to pay more money & is a local business man. My family has done business their since 1980 & when I read that other dealers are exploiting this sales tactic I get steamed.

 

Please except my appology if I have affended you in anyway, it's not meant to be personal.

[Five Oh B]

Five Oh B,

 

I never said you or the dealership you work for was dishonest. If your boss decides that he must mark them down because the model years over (2006) & your making room on your lot for the 2007 models, thats the norm of the business come January, February & March. (Tax Time year end sales)

 

I think it safe to say we both agree to disagree on this issue & I do respect your opinion being your doing this everyday.

 

Please don't feel like I'm attacking you....I'm pissed because my local dealer is screwing me over & selling to someone else farther down the list without honoring his word for the last 9 months because he someone else willing to pay more money & is a local business man. My family has done business their since 1980 & when I read that other dealers are exploiting this sales tactic I get steamed.

 

Please except my appology if I have affended you in anyway, it's not meant to be personal.

 

 

ColdwaterHotrod, I understand your frustrations and am sorry that any of the members here are not getting deals honored that their dealers promised on the GT500's.

 

On a side note, we price everything at our dealership under MSRP year 'round (except GT supercars and GT500's). Even bigger model year clearance pricing will come in the summer and fall months as the 2007's start to arrive.

[ColdwaterHotrod]

It's a neck & neck race on what should be charged for the car....Interesting

[robertlane]

B)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Mar 18 2006, 07:47 PM) 5557[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

I'm not defending anything. I'm simply pointing out that Robert Lane asked a VERY rhetorical question. He knows damn well what the answer is and his asking it as if he honestly didn't know only adds fuel to the fire. Do any of you know who Robert Lane is? Anyone know his history of litigation against Ford Motor Company? I'm sure he'd be happy to chime in here and explain it to any of you that haven't been in the Mustang community long enough to understand what I'm talking about. Of course, Robert may have had to sign a gag order with Ford about talking about past litigation that he initiated against Ford as there was some sort of settlement on the subject.

 

 

If I had the answer as to why Apple can do it and Ford can't, I would not have asked!

 

Now, as for our "history of litigation against Ford Motor Company" - this is no mysery with the excpetion that Ford sued us initially. . .we did not sue Ford.

 

Anyone can read about this here:

http://www.blueovalnews.com/lawsuit_ford/

 

No gag order was signed with Ford, so we can talk about any aspects of the case openly here or anywhere.

 

But, that was a long time ago and we have a relationship with Ford just like any other publication. This means that we will agree and disagree with Ford at times. It also means that if we find out something that is worthy of publishing, we're going to jump on it just like any other publication would do.

 

You can read more about it here:

http://www.blueovalnews.com/lawsuit_ford/f...on01may2005.htm

[ColdwaterHotrod]

Thanks for clearing that up Robert. If others haven't read it I recommend you do it's very interesting reading about how this website got started.

 

Glad to see you held your ground & WON. (score one for the little guy) Keep up the good work!

 

I think Five Oh B owes you some sort of an Apology?

 

Freedom of speech is great!

 

On a different note this poll is getting more & more interesting....

[owenkelley]

I would rather buy from a dealer because when I go in with a problem I want to have the person that sold it to me go to bat for me. It doesn't always come down to the number of $'s spent, I expect service and I don't think you get it by buying directly from a manufacturer and then taking it to a dealer for service. I saw this so many times when I worked at a dealership - somebody would buy a car from out of town because they could save a couple hundered dollars, then they would bring it to us for warranty repairs. We had no problem performing the work, but they need to understand that if a customer that bought a car from us needs warranty work, they come first. If you want preferential treatment, take it back to the dealership you bought it from!

[ColdwaterHotrod]

I would rather buy from a dealer because when I go in with a problem I want to have the person that sold it to me go to bat for me. It doesn't always come down to the number of $'s spent, I expect service and I don't think you get it by buying directly from a manufacturer and then taking it to a dealer for service. I saw this so many times when I worked at a dealership - somebody would buy a car from out of town because they could save a couple hundered dollars, then they would bring it to us for warranty repairs. We had no problem performing the work, but they need to understand that if a customer that bought a car from us needs warranty work, they come first. If you want preferential treatment, take it back to the dealership you bought it from!

 

 

 

If the dealer made the same amount of money whether they walked in or bought direct from the MFG, I don't think it would be an issue.

 

Your point is well taken...

[Evil95GT]

Thanks for clearing that up Robert. If others haven't read it I recommend you do it's very interesting reading about how this website got started.

 

Glad to see you held your ground & WON. (score one for the little guy) Keep up the good work!

 

I think Five Oh B owes you some sort of an Apology?

 

Freedom of speech is great!

 

On a different note this poll is getting more & more interesting....

 

 

I agree completely! This is an issue I've watched with interest since I got my first computer, a Strawberry iMac, in 1999. I was both happy and proud when Robert came out ahead, with freedom of speech prevailing. Even back in the day, I *always* watched that website for news I couldn't get anywhere else. The same holds true today.

[Five Oh B]

I don't feel I owe anyone an apology. Robert and I have disagreed on several topics over the last 6-7 years that I've been posting on his websites. We've exchanged some interesting e-mails off the forums in the past and we continue to have differing opinions on some Ford-related issues. He has a very good understanding of the inner workings of Ford, so it baffled me that he would say he didn't understand why Ford couldn't sell direct to the consumer just because Apple does.

 

However, we're beating a dead horse and this discussion has no impact on buying a GT500. Ford is not going to sell direct to the public at any time during the offering of 2007-8 GT500's, so it is a moot point. Let's move on to something more productive and pertinent to getting our cars!

[ColdwaterHotrod]

B)-->

QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Mar 22 2006, 02:34 PM) 5791[/snapback]

I don't feel I owe anyone an apology.

 

 

Sorry Five OH B.... I didn't realize you both went back so far...