The Joy Of The Shelby Has Been Destroyed

[PhotoRick]

Wake up Ford Motor Company!

 

Many of your most avid and devoted Mustang lovers have been slapped in the face by your greedy dealers with their price gouging tactics. The resentment runs deep and your foolish and short-sighted dealers are going to kill the company.

[crispy23c]

Wake up failing Ford Motor Company!

 

Many of your most avid and devoted Mustang lovers have been slapped in the face by your greedy dealers with their price gouging tactics. The resentment runs deep and your foolish and short-sighted dealers are going to kill the company.

 

You have to remember: Ford has every intention of building as many as they can...they definitely can build 7500+, they are trying to get commitments from suppliers to build more (>10,000). Don't crucify Ford for dealers selling high in a free market economy. Prices will come down after the ionitial furor. Hang tight!!!

[kepfordj]

Wake up failing Ford Motor Company!

 

Many of your most avid and devoted Mustang lovers have been slapped in the face by your greedy dealers with their price gouging tactics. The resentment runs deep and your foolish and short-sighted dealers are going to kill the company.

 

 

Wow, a little high on the drama, don't you think? I can't really blame dealers for charging what the market will bear, this is America after all.

[PhotoRick]

Shouldn't the company treat is customers fairly? Are we nothing more than $ to the dealers and to Ford? Shouldn't there be loyalty on both sides? Isn't customer resentment a long-term problem for the dealers and for Ford.

 

Look what is happening to Northwest Airlines due in part to its customer unfriendly policies. Now they want to charge an additional fee for a seat in an exit row. Last nail in their coffin.

 

Ford could be doing so much better with the excitement of the Shelby. The price gouging will be a huge negative factor in the long term.

 

 

I have been talking Shelby to my local dealership for months. They have been very encouraging the whole time. Now that it's time to write up a final deal, their first and maybe only Shelby will be going to an out-of-state banker who is foolish enough to pay $20,000 over sticker. That added value will likely be lost very soon.

[ColdwaterHotrod]

Wow, a little high on the drama, don't you think? I can't really blame dealers for charging what the market will bear, this is America after all.

 

 

You sound like a car dealer there kepfordj?

 

If you look up the definition for "Enterprise" this is what you find....

 

"Freedom to trade without government control: the doctrine or practice of giving companies the freedom to trade and make a profit without government control"

 

What we are asking is for FORD to step in & control their dealers, not the government (which is a whole other topic).

 

When the FORD GT came out its MSRP was & is 151k but with extremely lower build numbers per year & they are hand-made & only the SUPER RICH could afford them. The dealers knew this & took advantage of the situation (like insider trading) and ordered as many as they could (because they know we can't buy direct fromFORD) & added 75-100k to the MSRP or put them on eBay, which is fine if you have money to Burn. I think even today some of those same dealers are still sitting on them just waiting for some rich Playboy to come by & plop down a wad of cash.

 

NOw that FORD has decided to build a Shelby GT 500 for the average Blue coller worker to afford, the dealers automatically thought the same thing.... big $$$ but with more volume (hurray)...

 

Without us, the Blue coller worker you won't survive on rich playboys alone.

 

If your a FORD dealer or salesman reading this (sorry Five Oh B, nothing against you, your cool ), then you know what your doing & so do we & we are not going to take this lying down! For every one of us who gets treated like this when we were told we could by at MSRP & then later told different, we will spread your greedy company name around hundreds of times for everyone to know, & ask questions.

 

Then our answers will make future customers wonder about your sales tactics the next time their thinking of buying a new car or truck from you, which in the long run will cost you even more sales $$ & maybe even your job because your not meeting your sales numbers.

 

Now is it still worth it to sell above MSRP for the short term gain?

 

I think you get the point? Everyone including me is MAD

[zeotide]

Wow, a little high on the drama, don't you think? I can't really blame dealers for charging what the market will bear, this is America after all.

 

 

What ford has been doing for the last 10 years is not only allowing their dealers to run amuck on dealer premiums for the best product but also marketing and constraining supply such that dealers can do it. If a buyer could go to another dealer and get the car for less, then they couldn't play these games. But what does ford do? Constrain production and put the cars out by allotment.

 

So each dealer has a one or two of them, so now it's creating a supply problem, which allows the dealers to charge more. It's pretty easy to find two buyers for the one example of the one model, and also easy to come across some idiot who has more money than brains. Dealers know it so they let it sit on the lot until someone that is willing to pay their price shows up.

 

I don't understand why ford does this instant-collectable marketing crap. It doesn't help ford. It angers customers like myself, ford doesn't get an extra dime out of it, in fact they end up selling less cars than they could. The only winner in this are the dealers, but their win is short lived because they are cutting off the customer base.

 

I've read all sorts of schemes to get cobra mustangs at _LIST_. Why the hell should customers have to battle and play all these games to buy a product at MSRP? I don't have the time or the desire to deal with that BS, I just won't buy. I am sure I am not alone here.

 

I just get the feeling Ford really isn't in the business of selling cars anymore, or do they really think that those who can't get the car they want will settle for one of their lesser products?

[07 Shelby Cobra]

Wake up Ford Motor Company!

 

Many of your most avid and devoted Mustang lovers have been slapped in the face by your greedy dealers with their price gouging tactics. The resentment runs deep and your foolish and short-sighted dealers are going to kill the company.

 

 

I have to agree with Photorick. Where else in the Retail Sector do you walk into a Store with no Set Prices? Walmart is the Posterchild of the American Retail Establishment and certainly an upholder of the Free Market System, the Law of Supply and Demand, etc...., but you don't see them selling an Item for one price to one person and a different price to another person. Yet, this is exactly what the Automotive Industry has done for as long as time. Why should we have to negotiate the price for a car? It's frustrating, time consuming, intimidating and you're always left wondering if you could have done better.

Leave the bartering at the Fleamarket.

[rpretzel]

I have to agree with Photorick. Where else in the Retail Sector do you walk into a Store with no Set Prices? Walmart is the Posterchild of the American Retail Establishment and certainly an upholder of the Free Market System, the Law of Supply and Demand, etc...., but you don't see them selling an Item for one price to one person and a different price to another person. Yet, this is exactly what the Automotive Industry has done for as long as time. Why should we have to negotiate the price for a car? It's frustrating, time consuming, intimidating and you're always left wondering if you could have done better.

Leave the bartering at the Fleamarket.

 

 

I think I have to disagree a bit here. Aren't you describing the concept behind very successful businesses such as eBay? One side trying to get everything they can, and other trying to get the lowest possible price.

 

Granted, a new car is a bit different than a used toaster, but the auction/price negotiation concept is not new and it's very successful these days. Even companies like amazon.com have toyed with variable pricing based on who is buying. I think you'll see more and more of this in the future...across all industries and products. Not to say that I agree with it, but it's out there.

[07 Shelby Cobra]

I think I have to disagree a bit here. Aren't you describing the concept behind very successful businesses such as eBay? One side trying to get everything they can, and other trying to get the lowest possible price.

 

Granted, a new car is a bit different than a used toaster, but the auction/price negotiation concept is not new and it's very successful these days. Even companies like amazon.com have toyed with variable pricing based on who is buying. I think you'll see more and more of this in the future...across all industries and products. Not to say that I agree with it, but it's out there.

 

 

 

EBay is an Online Auction House. Most people Purchase off of EBay to find a Good or Unique Deal.

A typical EBay Purchaser would still choose to buy from a Retailer, if the item they wanted was available locally at a decent price.

[KingCobra]

EBay is an Online Auction House. Most people Purchase off of EBay to find a Good or Unique Deal.

A typical EBay Purchaser would still choose to buy from a Retailer, if the item they wanted was available locally at a decent price.

 

 

 

I agree with Dave here, but maybe that is the Canadian mentality vs. American.

 

Canadians are always about fair and mutually beneficial...win/win.

 

 

KingCobra.

[DutchGT500]

They have that from the Dutch. Search for a compromise where both parties will be better off. :beerchug:

[vimstar]

I think the some of the main reasons for people getting angry are that Ford had hyped the car as being over 450 HP for under $40K and that they would build as many as were ordered. Lots of people ran out and got on lists, put down deposits, and started dreaming about how much fun it would be to drive their new GT500. Suddenly everything changed. Ford is no longer going to produce as many as are ordered which has caused dealers to tear up their lists and start offering their now small allotment of GT500’s at extremely high markups. This preaty much smashed the hopes of many people who really wanted to buy a GT500. I imagine if this sort of thing happened with any product people would be really pissed off.

 

The solution… Ford needs to build more GT500’s to meat the demand. I’m not sure where the bottleneck lies (suppliers, insurance/warranty issues, plant capacity cap, etc.) but I cant imagine they are having trouble getting the high performance parts they need. Chevy seems to have no problem getting all the 6-speed transmissions and hi-po engine parts to build Corvettes so I would assume Ford should be able to acquire enough parts to build more than 10,000 GT500’s.

[Kencobra]

When Ford sent me to SVTOA training, a handout was passed out to the Chapter Directors. On it was a pie chart on what percentage of 3 areas we wanted.

 

One of the areas was exclusiveness of the 07. I put a high percentage into that.

 

I am sure they could make more but, I believe they are trying to keep the numbers made low on purpose.

 

I believe they made around 20k 03/04's and there are enough to go around. SO maybe they are going by those numbers also....

 

 

Ken

[JETSOLVER]

When Ford sent me to SVTOA training,One of the areas was exclusiveness of the 07. I put a high percentage into that.

I am sure they could make more but, I believe they are trying to keep the numbers made low on purpose.

 

Ken

 

Recall the 4 guideing priciples of SVT; Performance, Substance, Exclusivity and Value. Perhaps all is not lost after all......

[Five Oh B]

Ford is no longer going to produce as many as are ordered ..... This preaty much smashed the hopes of many people who really wanted to buy a GT500. I imagine if this sort of thing happened with any product people would be really pissed off. The solution… Ford needs to build more GT500’s to meat the demand.

 

Ironic. No, really ironic. Four years ago I was at www.Mach1Registry.com trying to help people get info and order the soon-to-be-released 2003 Mach 1's. Ford had initially planned to offer a one year run of 6,500 Mach 1's, but had 5,000+ orders in the first two weeks the order banks were open. Ford ended up building almost 10,000 Mach 1's in 2003 and 7,000+ more in 2004 to satisfy demand. Guess what!? People pissed and moaned about how Ford lied to them that this was to be a limited edition car and how dare they build more than originally planned.

 

Now we got people mad that Ford is going to limit production. I swear, Ford is damned if they do and damned if they don't!

[Joe G]

B)-->

QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Apr 29 2006, 05:00 PM) 9827[/snapback]

Now we got people mad that Ford is going to limit production. I swear, Ford is damned if they do and damned if they don't!

 

You hit it, Five Oh. If you already have one, you love the fact that you're special. If you don't have one, you wish that there were as many as possible.

 

Kind of like the classic car pricing - if you're buying, you hate that you have to spend big bucks to get the same car you could have bought a few years ago for 1/2; if you're selling, you love the fact that you're selling for twice the price you bought for!!

 

Who would have thought all those Econ courses would pay off in my hobby??

[ford4v429]

the title to me needs a slight change- the 'promise' of the Shelby has been destroyed.

 

every since this car was announced at around 40k, guys like me that had always dreamed of such a ride started drooling- not a lot more expensive than other performance cars, still more bang for the buck, with almost assured collectability. In the end the promise of 'collectability' I think might be the biggest culprit here- too many guys with the cash on hand see a investment, start doing things like the 2x msrp thing, then everyone out there starts jumping on the bandwagon- putting the car out of reach for the bulk of the droolers...Sadly Ford has hit the nail square on the head again- friggin dealers around here were getting 5-7k over on a mustang gt last year too. I wouldnt do it, very glad I didnt, and will never purchase another vehicle from those that refused to accept my order at sticker...freemarket whatever- if they can get sticker without an arguement just to shuffle some papers, I truly believe their franchise agreement ought to REQUIRE them to accept. Ford uses the dealer as their retail arm- the final link between factory and customer...dealers are seeing shelby buyers as folks dehydrated in the desert, willing to sell them water for a million bucks...somebody elses water at that.

 

if a dealer gets a stock shelby and wants a million bucks for it, fine- its their friggin car- BUT if a dealer REFUSES to ACCEPT an order at the MSRP of their franchises parent company, then I feel they are simply out of line. they dont build the friggin car, they dont sell the friggin car(its already sold when a guy walks in to order) the only thing they are 'out' is their allocated number of units. I still think allocation BS IS FORDS FAULT- customers should be able to order a car thru ford at msrp, then shop for a dealer to accept the order- if they get a better price offer from another dealer, so be it- but not over msrp. At the same time many of us have aggrivated the problem for dealers by haggling on a price over the years on everything they sell- personally I think Saturn was on the right track- heres the price-period. Problem is automakers have been pedalling mediocre product for too long- they finally get one right, and we all get mustang fever...I'm talking in circles again...

 

my biggest problem is with dealersI personally think if they get over sticker, at a minimum the excess should be required to split back to Ford- Ford EARNED the extra that people are willing to pay, by building such an awesome car at almost a bargain price. Dealer had NOTHING to do with the product, yet stand to make way more profit than the parent company just for shuffling some papers??? herein lies the problem- Ford knew they could hawk these cars at a higher msrp- but tried to stay true to the mustang roots- promise of affordable performance for the masses- then dealers ruined that, rather than smile and take the built in profit margin they often couldnt beat out of a customer...so instead of making friends, every dealer outthere(almost every) is now seeing them as acting like a schoolyard bully whose dad is the principal...not a darn thing you can do but put up with it- sadly in coming years the word of mouth from the quite vocal auto enthusiast network is gonna come back to bite them in the ass, with more and more folks shocked at their behavior...I actually feel sorry for the dealers- the couple I had issues with had what seemed decent sales guys, but GM dictates pricing...these guys are gonna starve to death in a few years due to the memories of how folks got treated. If a dealer only gets 2-3 shelbys, I wonder what the average number of 'turned away' buyers typically is? they wont return. and the guys that got bent over and took the deal- you think they'll be back when the wife needs a car? doubtful- they know where that dealers priority lies, and it aint in trying to appease a customer...like I said, the sales guys will be the ones to suffer most from this- I bet most of them wish the GM's woulda just sold out the two at MSRP to the first two guys walking thru the door and been done with it...then every prospective buyer being turned away could be told- no we promised at MSRP and sold them at that...every one would remember that statement, and be back when time to shop. Instead every one turned away is bitching to everyone that will listen, (or read internet forum) and the only guys its good for are the toyota types...all this anger towards 'the only way to buy a ford' dealer is a boon to the competition...

 

ford builds a great car, and it helps sell more toyotas...I think i'm starting to understand why they have built such bland stuff up till the mustang came out in 05. a big hit can cause dealer greed to piss away too many customers. Only way theyre gonna fix this bullshit for the better will be(guaranfukintee it will happen or they will never get past this) to start accepting msrp orders thru ford website, first come/first served, when theyre gone, theyre gone...customer can select dealer to handle the paperwork, all retails scheduled ahead of allocations, etc...this would get dealers back into the customer service mode that ford depends on them for(which dealer do you want to get the markup on your msrp order?), and nobody can argue with the first come/first served ordering fairness...but then you'd get buyers hawking their placed orders for 10k over...human nature=greed, so they'd have to find a way to prevent this too...say one year lease w/option to buy? I dunno, but theres gotta be a way to keep folks honest. maybe not.

[svttim]

B)-->

Ironic. No, really ironic. Four years ago I was at www.Mach1Registry.com trying to help people get info and order the soon-to-be-released 2003 Mach 1's. Ford had initially planned to offer a one year run of 6,500 Mach 1's, but had 5,000+ orders in the first two weeks the order banks were open. Ford ended up building almost 10,000 Mach 1's in 2003 and 7,000+ more in 2004 to satisfy demand. Guess what!? People pissed and moaned about how Ford lied to them that this was to be a limited edition car and how dare they build more than originally planned.

 

Now we got people mad that Ford is going to limit production. I swear, Ford is damned if they do and damned if they don't!

 

 

 

I have to agree with 5 Oh B, If they dont make enough people P&M becasue they cant get one and If they make too many, others P$M about exclisivity. What number do that have to do to make people happy? The Mach 1 is a good example. How exclusive were the 69-73 Mach 1's? Ford is in the buisness to make Money not produce collector cars. If you want to collect, look somewhere besides new. I think the 7 up Stangs, the special eddition converts from the early 90's are good bets. A sleeper would be the SVO models. If you have some cash, th R model Cobras IMHO will go up from here. Im buying a Shelby becasue of the looks,the power and the fact that I cant afford an early Shelby and this is my chance to own one. Not becasue its a potential collectors car

[Five Oh B]

personally I think Saturn was on the right track- heres the price-period.

 

Our dealership switched over to the one-price philosophy in 1993, and it is one of the biggest reasons our customers love us and keep coming back. By posting our best price upfront, customer know that they aren't getting hosed and that anybody can walk in a get the same low price. We have dozens and dozens of vehicles priced below invoice, many hovering around invoice, and even all of our Mustang GT's are priced below MSRP. And yes, our GT500's are one-priced, as well. All 5 were pre-sold at $10K over MSRP and we now have a list of 17 guys total willing to buy at that price (out of 53 on our list). We've had guys offer more than the $10K over MSRP trying to secure at GT500 from us, but we don't work that way. The $10K ADM is the deal here and none of the 5 guys we took orders for even flinched at that price (several of them had actually offered it to us to make sure they get the car).

 

Now you're probably wondering about the 36 guys on our list who aren't OK with the $10K ADM. They have told me that they'll wait until pricing gets closer to MSRP. That's cool, 'cuz someday pricing will get there and we'll want to sell cars then, too. I'm tickled pink that we've already got customers ready to buy at MSRP when (and if) the market takes the price there. I've let these guys know that additional 2007's that we may earn later, and 2008's certainly open up the possibility of them getting a GT500 from us closer to the price they want. No burnt bridges here, and our customers seem to appreciate how upfront we've been about pricing.

[lawdude]

B)-->

QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Apr 30 2006, 11:54 AM) 9888[/snapback]

All 5 were pre-sold at $10K over MSRP and we now have a list of 17 guys total willing to buy at that price (out of 53 on our list). We've had guys offer more than the $10K over MSRP trying to secure at GT500 from us, but we don't work that way.

 

Now you're probably wondering about the 36 guys on our list who aren't OK with the $10K ADM. They have told me that they'll wait until pricing gets closer to MSRP.

 

Don't forget to let us know:

 

1. How many of the original 5 take delivery;

 

2. How many of the next 17 purportedly willing to pay $10K over actually buy one; and

 

3. How many of the next 36 willing to pay MSRP are patient enough to wait.

 

Should be interesting.

[Five Oh B]

1. How many of the original 5 take delivery; I bet at least 3, probably 4 will hang in there.

 

2. How many of the next 17 purportedly willing to pay $10K over actually buy one; tough to guess, but I'd be happy if even half of them hung in there. and

 

3. How many of the next 36 willing to pay MSRP are patient enough to wait. Considering our list was as big as 80 at one time and there is always attrition on lists like this , I'd bet that the number will continue to drop, but at least 10 will still be trying to find one at MSRP this time next year. Still more people than we'll have cars for, though.

 

 

**********************************************

 

What is really cool about being a one-price store (we call it the "No-Dicker Sticker"), is that management has to be really careful to price everything at a competitive market driven price to have any hopes of selling any kind of volume. That's why most everything here is on sale for below invoice and up to just a couple hundred over invoice, as that's the market for most everything in the new Ford line up. The market price for the GT500 was established for us by customers who offered us $10K, $15K, or more over MSRP to secure one. We took a good average of what was being offered to us to make everybody happy that we could get cars for. Next year, the market price for 2008 GT500's will be different (likely close to, or at, MSRP), and our price will follow suit so that we remain competitive.

 

By the way, there are only a handful of one-price Ford dealers nationwide. Only two on the West Coast that I know of for sure. It certainly helps: 1) we are the only volume Ford dealer in the NW to win the President's Award 10 or more times {we've won 11, including the last 6 years in a row}, 2) of 160+ Ford dealers in the NW, we are always in the top 15 {and often in the top 10} for volume of sales, and 3) almost 70% of our customers tell Ford in surveys sent from Ford to their homes that the one-price aspect of our business was the biggest reason they buy from us.

 

People don't like getting jacked around over price. Have the product they want, at a competitive price that's posted up front, and it's easy to make everyone happy and sell cars!

[svttim]

B)-->

1. How many of the original 5 take delivery; I bet at least 3, probably 4 will hang in there.

 

2. How many of the next 17 purportedly willing to pay $10K over actually buy one; tough to guess, but I'd be happy if even half of them hung in there. and

 

3. How many of the next 36 willing to pay MSRP are patient enough to wait. Considering our list was as big as 80 at one time and there is always attrition on lists like this , I'd bet that the number will continue to drop, but at least 10 will still be trying to find one at MSRP this time next year. Still more people than we'll have cars for, though.

**********************************************

 

What is really cool about being a one-price store (we call it the "No-Dicker Sticker"), is that management has to be really careful to price everything at a competitive market driven price to have any hopes of selling any kind of volume. That's why most everything here is on sale for below invoice and up to just a couple hundred over invoice, as that's the market for most everything in the new Ford line up. The market price for the GT500 was established for us by customers who offered us $10K, $15K, or more over MSRP to secure one. We took a good average of what was being offered to us to make everybody happy that we could get cars for. Next year, the market price for 2008 GT500's will be different (likely close to, or at, MSRP), and our price will follow suit so that we remain competitive.

 

By the way, there are only a handful of one-price Ford dealers nationwide. Only two on the West Coast that I know of for sure. It certainly helps: 1) we are the only volume Ford dealer in the NW to win the President's Award 10 or more times {we've won 11, including the last 6 years in a row}, 2) of 160+ Ford dealers in the NW, we are always in the top 15 {and often in the top 10} for volume of sales, and 3) almost 70% of our customers tell Ford in surveys sent from Ford to their homes that the one-price aspect of our business was the biggest reason they buy from us.

 

People don't like getting jacked around over price. Have the product they want, at a competitive price that's posted up front, and it's easy to make everyone happy and sell cars!

 

 

Bottom Line is, dont blame the dealer. blame the consumer!

[ColdwaterHotrod]

Here's an Idea Maybe this whole thing about being a limited production car could be taken care of by having Ford set-up a order bank window (let’s say btw. May & July) for example, so customers can go to any Ford dealer to get financing done & approved so they can order what ever options they wanted ahead of the scheduled production date?

 

This way if you don't get your order in within that time frame you have to wait until the next model year. Then Ford will only have to produce what cars were needed by the public & not over or under produced. This helps keep the volumes limited to public demand only. If that’s 8,453 cars then that's great, if it’s 16,932 cars then that’s what it is, No more, No less & NO ADM’s most of all.

 

just my two cents

[Joe G]

Here's an Idea Maybe this whole thing about being a limited production car could be taken care of by having Ford set-up a order bank window (let’s say btw. May & July) for example, so customers can go to any Ford dealer to get financing done & approved so they can order what ever options they wanted ahead of the scheduled production date?

 

This way if you don't get your order in within that time frame you have to wait until the next model year. Then Ford will only have to produce what cars were needed by the public & not over or under produced. This helps keep the volumes limited to public demand only. If that’s 8,453 cars then that's great, if it’s 16,932 cars then that’s what it is, No more, No less & NO ADM’s most of all.

 

Ford's "allocation" program is the problem. They artificially limit supply to each dealer, creating a perceived "need" of the dealer to maximize their profit on each car sold. IF Ford would release production numbers and let THE MARKET decide which dealers sold them, we'd be much less likely to see these crazy prices. Good dealers (price, customer service, knowledge etc) would sell more (most likely at lower prices), and we'd all be happier. There could be limits in place (not let one dealer order 500 for "the lot" etc), but if they get the order, let them sell it.

 

FORD is the one playing God, and is the one who got the ball rolling so that dealers would be more likely to add ADM's. Let the market decide... trust me, the good dealers we've heard about on this Forum, you know the one's who sold at MSRP because it "was the right thing to do", would have more orders than they knew what to do with, and the big bullies who control large Metro dealers and put their cars on Ebay for as much as they can get would get nothing.

 

But who am I kidding... that would be customer-centric, and we all know Ford doesn't do that very well!

[owenkelley]

the title to me needs a slight change- the 'promise' of the Shelby has been destroyed.

 

every since this car was announced at around 40k, guys like me that had always dreamed of such a ride started drooling- not a lot more expensive than other performance cars, still more bang for the buck, with almost assured collectability. In the end the promise of 'collectability' I think might be the biggest culprit here- too many guys with the cash on hand see a investment, start doing things like the 2x msrp thing, then everyone out there starts jumping on the bandwagon- putting the car out of reach for the bulk of the droolers...Sadly Ford has hit the nail square on the head again- friggin dealers around here were getting 5-7k over on a mustang gt last year too. I wouldnt do it, very glad I didnt, and will never purchase another vehicle from those that refused to accept my order at sticker...freemarket whatever- if they can get sticker without an arguement just to shuffle some papers, I truly believe their franchise agreement ought to REQUIRE them to accept. Ford uses the dealer as their retail arm- the final link between factory and customer...dealers are seeing shelby buyers as folks dehydrated in the desert, willing to sell them water for a million bucks...somebody elses water at that.

 

if a dealer gets a stock shelby and wants a million bucks for it, fine- its their friggin car- BUT if a dealer REFUSES to ACCEPT an order at the MSRP of their franchises parent company, then I feel they are simply out of line. they dont build the friggin car, they dont sell the friggin car(its already sold when a guy walks in to order) the only thing they are 'out' is their allocated number of units. I still think allocation BS IS FORDS FAULT- customers should be able to order a car thru ford at msrp, then shop for a dealer to accept the order- if they get a better price offer from another dealer, so be it- but not over msrp. At the same time many of us have aggrivated the problem for dealers by haggling on a price over the years on everything they sell- personally I think Saturn was on the right track- heres the price-period. Problem is automakers have been pedalling mediocre product for too long- they finally get one right, and we all get mustang fever...I'm talking in circles again...

 

my biggest problem is with dealersI personally think if they get over sticker, at a minimum the excess should be required to split back to Ford- Ford EARNED the extra that people are willing to pay, by building such an awesome car at almost a bargain price. Dealer had NOTHING to do with the product, yet stand to make way more profit than the parent company just for shuffling some papers??? herein lies the problem- Ford knew they could hawk these cars at a higher msrp- but tried to stay true to the mustang roots- promise of affordable performance for the masses- then dealers ruined that, rather than smile and take the built in profit margin they often couldnt beat out of a customer...so instead of making friends, every dealer outthere(almost every) is now seeing them as acting like a schoolyard bully whose dad is the principal...not a darn thing you can do but put up with it- sadly in coming years the word of mouth from the quite vocal auto enthusiast network is gonna come back to bite them in the ass, with more and more folks shocked at their behavior...I actually feel sorry for the dealers- the couple I had issues with had what seemed decent sales guys, but GM dictates pricing...these guys are gonna starve to death in a few years due to the memories of how folks got treated. If a dealer only gets 2-3 shelbys, I wonder what the average number of 'turned away' buyers typically is? they wont return. and the guys that got bent over and took the deal- you think they'll be back when the wife needs a car? doubtful- they know where that dealers priority lies, and it aint in trying to appease a customer...like I said, the sales guys will be the ones to suffer most from this- I bet most of them wish the GM's woulda just sold out the two at MSRP to the first two guys walking thru the door and been done with it...then every prospective buyer being turned away could be told- no we promised at MSRP and sold them at that...every one would remember that statement, and be back when time to shop. Instead every one turned away is bitching to everyone that will listen, (or read internet forum) and the only guys its good for are the toyota types...all this anger towards 'the only way to buy a ford' dealer is a boon to the competition...

 

ford builds a great car, and it helps sell more toyotas...I think i'm starting to understand why they have built such bland stuff up till the mustang came out in 05. a big hit can cause dealer greed to piss away too many customers. Only way theyre gonna fix this bullshit for the better will be(guaranfukintee it will happen or they will never get past this) to start accepting msrp orders thru ford website, first come/first served, when theyre gone, theyre gone...customer can select dealer to handle the paperwork, all retails scheduled ahead of allocations, etc...this would get dealers back into the customer service mode that ford depends on them for(which dealer do you want to get the markup on your msrp order?), and nobody can argue with the first come/first served ordering fairness...but then you'd get buyers hawking their placed orders for 10k over...human nature=greed, so they'd have to find a way to prevent this too...say one year lease w/option to buy? I dunno, but theres gotta be a way to keep folks honest. maybe not.

 

 

 

Dont' forget - Ford dealer are not the only ones that sell hot product for over MSRP. Honda had been known to demand prices higher than MSRP as have Toyota, GM and Mopar, Mazda, probably every manufacturer. The fact remains - if a product is popular consumers will pay what it takes to buy it. My Ford dealer is charging $5000 over MSRP, he has been quoting this price since last summer. He told me this weekend that he is convinced he's selling them to cheap, but that's the price he's quoted and that's the price he's sticking to. He told me of a dealer in Southern California that he talked to that is getting $20,000 over MSRP and one he talked to in Seattle that is getting $10,000 over. He had a guy call him that wanted to get a GT500 and the guy offered him $10,000 over MSRP if the dealer would move him to the top of the list. He told them that they do not do business that way, thanks for the offer but no thanks.

[Joe G]

My Ford dealer is charging $5000 over MSRP, he has been quoting this price since last summer. He told me this weekend that he is convinced he's selling them to cheap, but that's the price he's quoted and that's the price he's sticking to. He had a guy call him that wanted to get a GT500 and the guy offered him $10,000 over MSRP if the dealer would move him to the top of the list. He told them that they do not do business that way, thanks for the offer but no thanks.

 

You have a great and honorable dealer, Owen. These are the guys that we need to reward with repeat business. Thank God that some dealers still have morals and ethics. Honesty goes a long way. Same thing if he quoted $10,000 or $20,000 over all along... as long as he didn't change his story later on he's good in my book. I might not like the price, or be able to afford it, but if he told everyone the same story and stuck with it - good for him.

[Five Oh B]

..... he talked to in Seattle that is getting $10,000 over. He had a guy call him that wanted to get a GT500 and the guy offered him $10,000 over MSRP if the dealer would move him to the top of the list. He told them that they do not do business that way, thanks for the offer but no thanks.

 

 

Sounds like our dealership? We're near Seattle and are $10K over MSRP. A few customers offered more to secure cars and/or a better spot, but we declined the offers as $10K is the deal - no more or no less for everyone who is getting one so far. I've talked to lots of other local dealers who believe they can get much more than this, and maybe they will, and we've wondered if we accepted too little for our early cars, but the price has been agreed upon and that's it.

 

Ford's "allocation" program is the problem. They artificially limit supply to each dealer, creating a perceived "need" of the dealer to maximize their profit on each car sold.

 

There are certainly problems with Ford's allocation process. I am all for overhauling it so that it allowed orders to be filled for any customer at any dealership with no limits on how many cars each dealer could order for real-live customers.

 

When the 2005 Mustang came out, we were sold out in advance all year long on GT's. Even V6's were sold almost immediately once they arrived, but the GT's were all pre-sold months and months before ever arriving. Ford would only send us about 7 or 8 Mustangs a month, and we're a large volume Mustang dealer in the NW. On the flip side, southern dealers with larger historical allocations (CA, TX, FL, etc.) were getting tons and tons of 2005 Mustangs just to have sitting on the lot for display when us northern dealers could have been selling them! Near the end of 2005, I checked the online inventory of a major SoCal dealer and they had 150 new Mustangs on their lot for sale while we had zero! That's infuriating! There has to be a better way to allocate and supply product!

[Joe G]

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QUOTE(Five Oh B @ May 1 2006, 12:10 PM) 10000[/snapback]

When the 2005 Mustang came out, we were sold out in advance all year long on GT's. Even V6's were sold almost immediately once they arrived, but the GT's were all pre-sold months and months before ever arriving. Ford would only send us about 7 or 8 Mustangs a month, and we're a large volume Mustang dealer in the NW. On the flip side, southern dealers with larger historical allocations (CA, TX, FL, etc.) were getting tons and tons of 2005 Mustangs just to have sitting on the lot for display when us northern dealers could have been selling them! Near the end of 2005, I checked the online inventory of a major SoCal dealer and they had 150 new Mustangs on their lot for sale while we had zero! That's infuriating! There has to be a better way to allocate and supply product!

 

Exact-a-mundo! Ship the cars to where they're being sold and everyone will be happy. Ford will have happy customers, dealers will be happy because they can actually sell cars, and customers will be happy because they won't be forced to buy from a dealer just because they're the only ones who have "historically" sold the most.

 

150 on the lot??? What a bunch of !! Jeeze Ford - ship the product to where it's sold. Pretty simple supply chain theory to me. What are they thinking? If we ship more (even if the lots are full), they'll eventually be sold? I'm not saying that every lot should have the same amount of cars on it, but if the orders are there, why not ship the one's already sold first instead of loading the lots of so called "volume dealers"?

[bigmunzon]

Before everyone is done abusing their local Ford dealer - let's take a quick dealer survey: Would you prefer having one to three units to sell at a premium (5-20 thousand over suggested retail) or would you prefer to have 20 - 50 units to sell at MSRP?

[rbortnick]

There is a SVT dealer in Edmonton, Alberta that is going to sell their allocation at 35 - 40,000.00 over MSRP. Good luck to them in getting that.

 

I got mine from a SVT dealer in Vancouver at MSRP, they have garanteed me MSRP, I have a bill of sale at MSRP.

 

The consumer is definetely driving the price of this car, check out E Bay auctions for them.

 

Bottom line I would be very disappointed if Ford did not limit production on this car - Its a Shelby. Only 14,000 total were built durting the Shelby years. Kinda disappointed that they are buiilding 9000 - Last May when I talked to the SVT plant they told me they would only be building 6500.

 

Hopefully the car at least mantians its value. Hate to see it go down 10-15K the day after you drive it off the lot.