Shelby sued by Plasan

[ColdwaterHotrod]

move along...... nothing to see here but

[SpeedRacer]

After reading all this it's obvious this will have to go the course and will be resolved. It's sad however because in many cases there are no winners even if one party held up there end of the bargin, they often settle just to move on. We the consumer are also a looser because businesses are forced to pass these costs on to us to recover and or make a proffit.

 

The one thing that has had me puzzled from the start that relates to these hood issues is: With an order of 1700 plus and other parts, why didn't SAI build these in house? You get the right people, it's do-able. ??

 

Pattons or established contracts I understand. As a major supplier / Auto company I would think the more you do in house the more control you have.

 

 

Starting up a high quality carbon fiber layup operation (autoclaves, molds, designers, technicians) is expensive and requires a lot of expertise. It would have been cost prohibitive... Plus, why do that when SAI/SA's core competencies are in design and modification--not manufacturing. I think...

[shel-b001]

move along...... nothing to see here but

 

 

+1

Hey good to hear from you Rodney

[Grabber]

+1

Het good to hear from you Rodney

 

 

It was nice to hear from him. He called me last night to catch up on old times. I told him we miss him around here.

[Tob]

 

How about we keep this simple and you go filter back through 6 pages...you want some sort of duel, I want some sort of compensation, my time is precious; that said, I would like to ask about this:

 

"The numbers Shelby has quoted for the KR hood are available all over the web. They aren't speculation. Now the numbers are coming out as to what Shelby was charged, albeit through a legal action. Nobody here is getting 'worked up' over the truth. Are you?"

 

All over the web huh? so there you have it...it must be the truth...

Yes. All over the web. If your time wasn't so much more 'precious' than everyone else's you could find it as well. And nobody said it was the only truth - or if there was any truth to it at all. There are many pieces to a puzzle, and if you don't know that by now, son, I can't help you. And I don't duel with fisherman. They never stop casting.

 

 

 

It was someone different, in Austin, TX, and they hit a deer. If you want more information, I suggest you pump Maxwell Ford for it...its not my place to critique the customer service of someone elses issue, but it was in the same time period all that bs was floating around.

I'm sorry Maxwell made contact with a deer. It happens quite often where I live. But I have no interest in 'pumping him' just to get more information from him. Homey don't play that way. But I figured that you'd throw it out there and then hold back on details. And interesting that you can't critique the 'issue' regarding someone you know, but pass judgement on someone you don't and characterize their 'incident' as bs.

 

Well, for me, if Amy tells me something, I know it is Shelby's position. If GoKart76 over on BrokenBuicks.net posts something, I have no idea who they are. I can walk up to Amy and most people on here, pick them out in a crowd, so I feel I can go by what they say

You stereotype as though there were a halo of stupidity about the web when you aren't a part of it. I won't deny it isn't there. And I can't argue about speaking directly to someone either. We'd all like to feel that nobody would ever look you in the eye and lie to you. I have a feeling that both Shelby and Plasan would agree with that as well.

 

 

How much stock are you talking about? 20 shares wont get you a business card. 200k shares might get you a phone call answered. 10 million shares would probably get anyone's ear you want.

 

But at that point you are a vested financier of the company, and therefore YOUR company...and that would make it your business.

 

But paying yearly dues on a Team Shelby membership means its nun-ya LOL

 

I took it as an inference to stock in Plasan, not Ford. Especially with Ford doing so well as of late.

 

 

... for the record what we pay for things or what a company pays for things is the business of the company ........ this is America after all. The Kr hood is not for sale so this is moot

 

Amy

Or was America, anyway. Capitalism has somehow become a naughty word. And I never saw hood availability as being all the rage, just cost. I doubt there is a KR or even a lowly GT500 owner that hasn't spent a moment ringing up their mental cash register so as to rationalize the additional cost of a KR, part by part, especially when dealers were asking and getting six figures for them. There were plenty of KR reviews where the author couldn't substantiate the price of one and chose a certain GM product instead.

 

As a Mustang, the KR was one of the best ever, of this I am certain. And as much as I can't justify the early numbers that people paid for them, I'd rather have one than a competitor's vehicle, performance be damned.

 

 

FYI, saying he's a tort reform guy doesn't mean he has any legal experience whatsoever. It just means he's a guy who thinks lawsuits should be limited so injured people cannot recover a ton of money for their injuries. It's a fairly mainstream conservative political viewpoint, or one associated with the medical/insurance industry, or as grabber points out, the construction industry.

 

Back to our regularly scheduled programming...

 

Well played. But not entirely accurate. I'd change the latter portion of your second sentence. Regulating legal fees for ambulance chasing cases:), limiting 'excessive' jury awards, etc, would be more in line with my hopes - not necessarily limiting injury awards across the board.

 

Your demographic is spot on. You know your enemy well!

[SGT/SC#0471]

I would suggest, that for anyone that thinks the SAI price of a hood is too high (whatever that price really is), then they should go ahead and order 1700+ hoods from Plasan or whoever themselves, get the much lower price, and then sit on them till they sell for whatever cost they wish to resell them at... comparing a per peice cost to a large quantity cost is simply rediculous. As with all business, if you take the risk, you can reap the reward, the price is only too high if there aren't customers that will pay it in quantities sufficient enough to make it profitable. Cost should not be the basis for pricing in specialty markets like this, the Shelby name didn't cost Carroll a penny, but I guarantee you that the majority of us are willing buyers of that name!

 

 

 

And that sums up the business plan of Mini-Storage, I own a Mini-Storage business its funny....

 

Buy Low Sell High my man....

 

Great post....spot on....

 

Carroll and SAI's accomplishments speak enough...

[Son of GT]

move along...... nothing to see here but

 

Great to hear from you again Rodney; don't be a stranger...

 

(BTW, did you read the forum about the "Factory built", 1 of 1, Blue Striped SS?)

[GT500-07]

Great to hear from you again Rodney; don't be a stranger...

 

(BTW, did you read the forum about the "Factory built", 1 of 1, Blue Striped SS?)

 

 

oh no you didn't E,

[DubbsFaris]

Yes. All over the web. If your time wasn't so much more 'precious' than everyone else's you could find it as well. And nobody said it was the only truth - or if there was any truth to it at all. There are many pieces to a puzzle, and if you don't know that by now, son, I can't help you. And I don't duel with fisherman. They never stop casting.

 

Thanks "Dad", Everyone's time is precious, and this is a non issue for me...so why waste time on it? Did I cast something? I think really was more of a Hey, lets just wait for the real details to come out...if that is casting then you are overly sensitive. But whatever on your analogy....

 

 

I'm sorry Maxwell made contact with a deer. It happens quite often where I live. But I have no interest in 'pumping him' just to get more information from him. Homey don't play that way. But I figured that you'd throw it out there and then hold back on details. And interesting that you can't critique the 'issue' regarding someone you know, but pass judgement on someone you don't and characterize their 'incident' as bs.

 

Well, as far as critique, there is nothing to say...he hit a deer, called the insurance company, they replaced the hood. If there was a problem with one hood and not another as far as the BS from the other incident, I was mainly pointing out all the other "uninformed comments" that made those threads so long. Maybe that guy did have all those problems, I dont know, I wasnt there and I dont know him.

 

You stereotype as though there were a halo of stupidity about the web when you aren't a part of it. I won't deny it isn't there. And I can't argue about speaking directly to someone either. We'd all like to feel that nobody would ever look you in the eye and lie to you. I have a feeling that both Shelby and Plasan would agree with that as well.

 

Dude, what the hell are you reading into my comments?! Im talking about when you have friends and know people, you are more likely to trust what they are saying, on a forum or on a phone or face to face. If some whack job comes on here and starts talking about how Taxes are voluntary or the Jonas Brothers are the anti-christ, I just put no wieght on those comments, and you shouldn't either. Thats all Im saying...I know most the people on this thread. Thats not a stereotype. Thats a fact.

 

I took it as an inference to stock in Plasan, not Ford. Especially with Ford doing so well as of late.

 

Actually, this was a quote from someone else....so Im not even sure what you are talking about. I dont know the first thing about Plasan.

 

 

 

Well played. But not entirely accurate. I'd change the latter portion of your second sentence. Regulating legal fees for ambulance chasing cases:), limiting 'excessive' jury awards, etc, would be more in line with my hopes - not necessarily limiting injury awards across the board.

 

Your demographic is spot on. You know your enemy well!

 

 

I was just being sarcastic here...I know what it is. I can tell by the time I read through his first statement this guy has no legal experience.

 

Look Tob,

you just seem like you have it all figured out, and unless you have heard both sides of this dispute, that is just not possible. Even if you are Henry Ford, The CEO of Plasan, or Carroll Shelby himself. You demand that I give direct quotes and address each one, and why not ask for research and footnotes while we are at it? I left that crap in Law School and I dont need your clever insight to draw my own conclusions. Amy put this thread to bed, and more info will come out as the case goes on. All of our uninformed speculation does absolutely nothing to get to the bottom of the issue, or have more fun in our cars....if I cant comment on something that doesn't achieve one of those goals...then I move on. And that was my thinking. But I know at other forums, the haters have already been posting about how evil SAI is and blah blah blah...Im fine with that. Let them hate. But dont come to OUR house with that crap...its not wanted, needed, or helpful in any way. IF you own a Shelby...then go out and drive it...meet up with other enthusiasts and your fun will rise 10 fold...if not, then there is nothing more I care to discuss with you...Im going to Vegas to beat the hell out of my car....you can beat on your computer or yourself for all I care...

 

Peace out! :drops mic:

[SVOC]

 

[BLOWN]

 

Hey you guys beat up on each other here than we could of ever done on the Political Banter site. Just enjoy your Shelbys. Things will work out and Mr Shelby will still be making the Baddest Shelbys mustangs In the World. There is a Reason for everything and we will NEVER know whats up ( the truth) period. Stop fighting Kiss and make up NOW go drive your SHELBY. Wait a minute what topic is this

[amyb]

 

Or was America, anyway. Capitalism has somehow become a naughty word. And I never saw hood availability as being all the rage, just cost. I doubt there is a KR or even a lowly GT500 owner that hasn't spent a moment ringing up their mental cash register so as to rationalize the additional cost of a KR, part by part, especially when dealers were asking and getting six figures for them. There were plenty of KR reviews where the author couldn't substantiate the price of one and chose a certain GM product instead.

 

As a Mustang, the KR was one of the best ever, of this I am certain. And as much as I can't justify the early numbers that people paid for them, I'd rather have one than a competitor's vehicle, performance be damned.

 

 

 

Last time I looked we are a capitalistic nation I don't think that will change at least I hope not it's what made us the nation we are.

 

The Kr hood Pricing is what it is, the rumors of 20K hoods is just that, unless of course that is what the dealer was trying to get, I don't know. I will say that we had to build multiple tools to get the quantity we needed and more once the supplier fell behind. It was not an easy hood to make. The car had a lot of new upgrades to the Gt500 that were amortized over 1700 cars and that made it expensive as well. many of the hoods had to be painted and repainted numerous times, as it was hard to match the colors of paint on metal and paint on CF. Especially when the hoods wer to be painted at the same time as the car using the mix numbers. Since this didn't happen, and all the cars were completed before the hoods, many of the hoods just didn't match. The hoods aren't for sale, which also keeps the price high, as you can't count incremental sales to lower the price.

 

This project was expensive, but I do agree, it is a great car. It was late, very late and that hurt sales and excitement and caused backup on lots. Timing is everything in business and this great car missed its timing.

 

Amy

[68fastback]

If Plasan had made a positioning statement above would *that* have put this subject to rest or can only SAI do that?

 

I appreciate Amy posting SAI's position and look forward to the promised formal statement by SAI and, with all due respect to Amy and everyone else's opinions here, I'm under no illusion that *any* statements made in conjunction with a lawsuit are *necessarily* centered on the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

 

Besides, this thread is in non-automotive off-topic -- where it bleongs -- so what's the harm in in this discussion? It seems some want those who, lacking the facts as we all do, are looking for insight in various ways -- discussion, Plasan filing, conecting the dots (something Homeland Security is not doing well at either), whatever tidbits may be available or of interest -- to just stop (go drive your cars, etc). What makes anyone think they're not enjoying their cars? What gives anyone the right to suggest anyone else 'beat it?' Are people with alternative viewpoints to be banished by the 'majority' -- just because they have a different opinion? Such statements are just a veiled surrogate for telling someone: beat it, we don't like your type here, we don't like what your saying, you're not welcome here. In short, a gentlemanly 'mob-rule' mentality. I find that far more inappropriate than any comments that use some logic to speculate or connect the dots, etc.

 

Hey, I don't know the facts either and the ones I'm aware of don't seem to wash either party 'clean' or necesarily fully agree with either party's statements to date, so I kinda like seeing everyone's viewpoints here -- whether I agree with them or not.

 

I also don't think the Shelby empire is in jeopardy by this. It's a lawsuit. Besides, even a directed verdict against SAI for the full amount (which I'm not implying would or should happen because SAI may have done nothing to warrant such) would likely not be paid anyway and just carried as a liability on the corporate books -- in essence just giving Plasan a first-among-equals right to payment if SAI were to ever fold or declare bankruptcy, etc. However, in my own mind I have to wonder if the timing of the lawsuit and the SAI => Shelby American name change/usage are related or not. Is it a coincidence tied to historical motivation (GT350) or a way to isolate potential corporate liability from the overarching Shelby businesse(s). I don't know, but I'd be astonished if folks haven't also questioned that in their own minds.

 

I'll not list all such questions I have in my mind here because I have no interest in inciting anyone or exposing such logic to those who might be inclinded to feel only the 'enemy' could have such questions. Suffice it to say I'm not a fan of mob-rule.

 

So while Tob may have views that some disagree with (I don't agree with all his views either), I applaud his willingness to share them and those that disagree to share their views as well. All reasoned arguments and discussion should be welcome. Is it all based on facts? No. Is there lots of seculation and connecting-the-dots, Yup. Is there something wrong with discussing such differeing viewpoints? No. Some seem to feel it serves no purpose -- fine. Othere feel it does -- fine. No one is making anyone participate here and everyone who does participate is free to do so how they see fit within the rules of the forums.

 

What I do find offensive is the implication that because some viewpoints are in the minority that those folks should be silent else be admonished to go drive their cars or whatever. That is a hallmark of a mob-rule mentality, imho, and that's not what I think we're collectively about here ...at least I hope not.

 

-Dan

[svttim]

Last time I looked we are a capitalistic nation I don't think that will change at least I hope not it's what made us the nation we are.

 

The Kr hood Pricing is what it is, the rumors of 20K hoods is just that, unless of course that is what the dealer was trying to get, I don't know. I will say that we had to build multiple tools to get the quantity we needed and more once the supplier fell behind. It was not an easy hood to make. The car had a lot of new upgrades to the Gt500 that were amortized over 1700 cars and that made it expensive as well. many of the hoods had to be painted and repainted numerous times, as it was hard to match the colors of paint on metal and paint on CF. Especially when the hoods wer to be painted at the same time as the car using the mix numbers. Since this didn't happen, and all the cars were completed before the hoods, many of the hoods just didn't match. The hoods aren't for sale, which also keeps the price high, as you can't count incremental sales to lower the price.

 

This project was expensive, but I do agree, it is a great car. It was late, very late and that hurt sales and excitement and caused backup on lots. Timing is everything in business and this great car missed its timing.

 

Amy

 

 

I agree Amy, it is a great car! Not sure if you can answer this but, what went into the decison not to sell the hood. I uderstand exclusivity and all but, had they been offered, the hood would not be near as expensive to produce, making the KR less expensive for owners to buy, albeit, still very rare. Someone will make a knockoff anyway, undercutting SAI and KR owners. A GT500 with a KR hood is a GT500, A KR is a KR.

[68fastback]

+1 Tim. It is a great car!

 

I also agree with Amy's comment on Ford amortizing loads of R&D over those 1700 KRs ...development that has greatly benefitted the '10 GT500 in several ways (from handling to aerodynamics to tune) and the '10 GT as well (front plenum airflow management, etc.) ...and will likely benefit future offerings too.

 

The KR hood (when used with the other pieces) is clearly the best hood functionally and also looks plain killer! The SS hood is also nice and there are a couple of nice, if different, aftermarket hood designs but the KR just hits all the right notes functionally *and* aestheticaly, at least to me.

 

Any that directly copy the KR hood should (and no doubt will) be issued a C&D letter, and prosecuted if that doesn't work. The 'similar' pieces (as opposed to copies) fall in a grey area in IP law that makes presecution difficult, etc.

 

Would be great if the KR hood could be made available at some point, or possibly an authorized look-alike that's also fully functional but made from more affordable materials. That would assure only KRs have the real CF KR hood but also opens another revenue stream for Shelby (and or Ford??) for the 'look.'

[Boss Doctor]

The Jonas brothers are the anti-christ?

[amyb]

What I do find offensive is the implication that because some viewpoints are in the minority that those folks should be silent else be admonished to go drive their cars or whatever. That is a hallmark of a mob-rule mentality, imho, and that's not what I think we're collectively about here ...at least I hope not.

 

-Dan

 

 

You know Dan, I don't disagree with you. everyone should be able to post their opinion regardless of which side. Unfortunately this is web site and all others web sites are not set up like a debate with rules. The first to post something new wins, wins what, not sure.Tthe first to post negative or vile opinions sets the tone. In all my years with websites I don't think I have ever seen a controversial post have a fair first post. And that popcorn guy has to go!

 

Then the calls start, the emails, the PM's....... Other sites want a response, or they are keeping me updated on the posts they delete. By the time I get to respond, I am on the defensive there are 4 pages of posts , the team is already deleting the ones that wish Carroll harm or ill will, and the name calling ones. This post on another site actually had someone say" the lawsuits would all stop if Carroll would just die" what level of responsible human is that? Then.....The members divide and I have to explain everything in detail. All this does is take away hours of time developing new parts, do anything else we should be doing. I think everyone should be able to ask questions, that doesn't mean a company will answer them all, but we always try our best.

 

This lawsuit will not be what it seems, and everyone has a side and a view. this is mine.

 

 

Amy

 

 

Amy

[kahmann]

In all my years with websites I don't think I have ever seen a controversial post have a fair first post. And that popcorn guy has to go!

 

What's unfair about the first post in this thread exactly? Just pointing out something I found to be of interest. And I love the popcorn guy. He stays.

 

Ken

[68fastback]

Hi Amy, yeah I certainly don't envy you having to deal with the aftermath such situations cause ...and all the time and energy it has to sap, both yours and your staff. I guess it's a part of life in the internet age -- as imperfect as it is -- but it has to be frustrating none-the-less since, in a way, your're damned if you do deal with the comments and damned if you don't. Likely all vendors who sell across multiple sites have similar frustrations.

 

No matter who has what concerns with such topics I just can't understand what mind-set produces the vile comments you mentioned -- really makes you wonder. I haven't seen any probably because I haven't been looking but I don't doubt it one bit.

 

I'm glad you'll be issueing a statement at some point -- a stake in the ground that assures some shelf-space for SAI's position. It's hard to be on the defensive tho. Hopefully it will get coverage as broad as the suit did.

[shel-b001]

Amy I would would disregard alot that is said on websites typical example is the person that made the comment about Carroll . Spend your energy on the Shelbys .omho

 

Oh & the popcorn has to stay

[svttim]

You know Dan, I don't disagree with you. everyone should be able to post their opinion regardless of which side. Unfortunately this is web site and all others web sites are not set up like a debate with rules. The first to post something new wins, wins what, not sure.Tthe first to post negative or vile opinions sets the tone. In all my years with websites I don't think I have ever seen a controversial post have a fair first post. And that popcorn guy has to go!

 

Then the calls start, the emails, the PM's....... Other sites want a response, or they are keeping me updated on the posts they delete. By the time I get to respond, I am on the defensive there are 4 pages of posts , the team is already deleting the ones that wish Carroll harm or ill will, and the name calling ones. This post on another site actually had someone say" the lawsuits would all stop if Carroll would just die" what level of responsible human is that? Then.....The members divide and I have to explain everything in detail. All this does is take away hours of time developing new parts, do anything else we should be doing. I think everyone should be able to ask questions, that doesn't mean a company will answer them all, but we always try our best.

 

This lawsuit will not be what it seems, and everyone has a side and a view. this is mine.

 

 

Amy

 

 

Amy

 

 

 

The Internet has a bunch of cowards (not everyone) that hide behind a keyboard. They would never say what they post in person. That’s the problem with forums.

 

Not sure why you have to or, even should go into detail. When I had to deal with such issues, I gave the known details. There is a lawsuit that has been filed. There are two sides to every story and, the attorneys will be working on this issue and if necessary, we will take our side into court and we feel certain we will prevail.

 

I don’t know Carroll but, from what I have heard from numerous people, he is a kind and caring person. Anyone that would wish anything on anyone is lower than a snake’s belly.

 

SAI has its haters for some reason. No need to bother with them because, in the end, you wont change their mind.

[David Hawkins]

The Jonas brothers are the anti-christ?

 

 

[SVT NAJA]

There is a lawsuit that has been filed. There are two sides to every story and, the attorneys will be working on this issue and if necessary, we will take our side into court and we feel certain we will prevail.

 

I don't know Carroll but, from what I have heard from numerous people, he is a kind and caring person. Anyone that would wish anything on anyone is lower than a snake's belly.

 

 

svttim,

 

This whole Plasan matter couldn't have been summed up better. Thank you!

 

Our honored legal system will resolve the differences between the 2 parties, so let's support that!

 

With regard to anyone wishing Carroll harm or ill health... they can stick it! There is a special place for them in the hereafter and it's known to be hotter than an overheating combustion chamber.

[turnsignaldelete]

It will all be OK.

In the mean time;

 

'Big Larry', :beerchug: aka, "Mr. Big Bear Squash 'um all Flat', will sit on anyone,

 

who, treats, our, 'Main Man',:shades: or our 'Main

 

Women'(aka Mustang Amy ), or any

 

member of, 'The Team', with disrespect.

 

My Mother, :angel: said frequently, 'That wishing

 

others 'ill tidings', was Bad Karma',

 

and would result, in bringing 'ill tidings',

 

upon the 'ill wisher'.

 

[SGT/SC#0471]

Wow Amy, what a load of stinky stuff, I figure anyone who disses Carroll and SAI like that is a philistine, and can't read or learn anything about automotive history...amazing, hopefully everyone will grow up at somepoint. I hope that Mr. Shelby does not have to hear about that kind of bs on forums...

[DutchGT500]

It will all be OK.

In the mean time;

 

'Big Larry', :beerchug: aka, "Mr. Big Bear Squash 'um all Flat', will sit on anyone,

 

who, treats, our, 'Main Man',:shades: or our 'Main

 

Women'(aka Mustang Amy ), or any

 

member of, 'The Team', with disrespect.

 

My Mother, :angel: said frequently, 'That wishing

 

others 'ill tidings', was Bad Karma',

 

and would result, in bringing 'ill tidings',

 

upon the 'ill wisher'.

 

 

 

You are getting used to use emoticons, Larry.

[Tob]

Thanks "Dad", Everyone's time is precious, and this is a non issue for me...so why waste time on it? Did I cast something? I think really was more of a Hey, lets just wait for the real details to come out...if that is casting then you are overly sensitive. But whatever on your analogy....

You were baiting. And if nobody else saw, I did. Yeah, yeah, you were just implying that we should wait for a decision. I got that. And 'whatever' to your response.

 

Well, as far as critique, there is nothing to say...he hit a deer, called the insurance company, they replaced the hood. If there was a problem with one hood and not another as far as the BS from the other incident, I was mainly pointing out all the other "uninformed comments" that made those threads so long. Maybe that guy did have all those problems, I dont know, I wasnt there and I dont know him.

Interesting shift in your position from a few posts ago when you stated " it was in the same time period all that bs was floating around" eh? I don't disagree with your position on the majority of the other comments being void of substance.

 

Dude, what the hell are you reading into my comments?! Im talking about when you have friends and know people, you are more likely to trust what they are saying, on a forum or on a phone or face to face. If some whack job comes on here and starts talking about how Taxes are voluntary or the Jonas Brothers are the anti-christ, I just put no wieght on those comments, and you shouldn't either. Thats all Im saying...I know most the people on this thread. Thats not a stereotype. Thats a fact.

Hold back on the red herrings for a moment. Stereotyping? Don't you remember "GoKart76 over on BrokenBuicks.net"? You definitely weren't implying that he had much legal experience, were you?

 

Actually, this was a quote from someone else....so Im not even sure what you are talking about. I dont know the first thing about Plasan.

I responded to svttim and his question about stock. Then you did. I responded to that in post #125.

 

I was just being sarcastic here...I know what it is. I can tell by the time I read through his first statement this guy has no legal experience.

You lost me here. If you are talking about me, you've failed to heed your own advice to " not believe everything you read posted on the internet in a forum" (rule #2). I get around the block. Here's the latest case I was part of, a successful appeal to the US Court of Appeals in NYC. My full name is listed there a few times. Not at all relevant to carbon fiber hoods, but since you can read through 'statements' so well...

http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F3/479/213/589297/

 

Look Tob,

you just seem like you have it all figured out, and unless you have heard both sides of this dispute, that is just not possible.

Don't give up your day job. Moonlighting as a mind reader probably isn't going to cut it for you. Go back and read every post I've made. Show me where I stated that I had all the answers, or that the case was already over. Did I say that we don't need to hear Shelby's side? No, I didn't. And if you spent a moment outside this forum and visited say, the KR forum, you'd have seen my position (before I made a single post in this thread) here. Since your time is so important I'll quote it for you...

 

"I'd be very disappointed with CS if someone had been directed (or just felt the need) to cherry pick through the forums and remove any evidence of a lawsuit against CS. It is public record, as mentioned, and available to all. As a natural born Texan, I'd expect him to stand his ground if his integrity were in question.

 

We've now heard from Plasan. We'll have to wait for a response to their claim, and if CS is indeed in the right, I'd expect nothing less than a full scale legal battle." (post #18)

 

<snip>

[Tob]

<snip>

 

<snip>

 

 

You demand that I give direct quotes and address each one, and why not ask for research and footnotes while we are at it?

I lay something out and you generalize your retort and question my integrity (go back and read your own posts if you have a moment to do it). You suggest two rules that you live by (sometimes) in response to me and then mock the web as a valid resource (which I don't have a problem with as a general rule) after I quote a post by Robert regarding pricing, and a subsequent link to an Autoblog article which quoted Jim Owens from Shelby. So yeah, I like to see some references as well when someone at least 'attempts' a counter argument.

I left that crap in Law School and I dont need your clever insight to draw my own conclusions.

If you didn't need it in Law School you certainly don't need clever insight from me.

 

But I know at other forums, the haters have already been posting about how evil SAI is and blah blah blah...Im fine with that. Let them hate.

Hmm. I thought you had tried to paint me with the 'hater' brush. I can draw conclusions too you know.

 

But dont come to OUR house with that crap...its not wanted, needed, or helpful in any way.

Once covered with paint I have to stay outside the house. Nice. I'd hope this isn't your modus operandi at work each day.

 

IF you own a Shelby...then go out and drive it...meet up with other enthusiasts and your fun will rise 10 fold

If?

if not, then there is nothing more I care to discuss with you

Why don't you just assume I don't.

you can beat on your computer or yourself for all I care...

Nice.

 

<snip>

[Tob]

<snip>

 

Last time I looked we are a capitalistic nation I don't think that will change at least I hope not it's what made us the nation we are.

The inference I made (in response to your comments) had to do with the current political climate, which is a bit to the contrary. I don't support it, but am trying to be subtle enough so as not to trip the 'political' rule warning buzzer within this forum. I know what made us strong and don't want to see it change either.

 

...many of the hoods had to be painted and repainted numerous times, as it was hard to match the colors of paint on metal and paint on CF. Especially when the hoods wer to be painted at the same time as the car using the mix numbers. Since this didn't happen, and all the cars were completed before the hoods, many of the hoods just didn't match. The hoods aren't for sale, which also keeps the price high, as you can't count incremental sales to lower the price.

Just to be clear Amy, you stated before that the hoods came unpainted ( "no paint, no prep, no strips, no shipping - I don't know if you were implying that you paid Plasan extra for this or not). So I'm missing something regarding the cars sitting in storage (as painted by Ford prior to shipping) and your statement about the hoods being (intended to be) painted at the same time. So if Plasan didn't paint them, am I wrong to assume that Shelby paid a contractor to paint the hoods? And if the colors didn't match that certainly wasn't Plasan's fault, correct?

 

This project was expensive, but I do agree, it is a great car. It was late, very late and that hurt sales and excitement and caused backup on lots. Timing is everything in business and this great car missed its timing.

 

I think the timing will prove to be an issue only for the short term. The parts exclusivity will no doubt serve to keep the value that much higher than a generic GT500. The fact that the car came with the 3.73 rear from Ford was important to many (as much as Jim Bell claims it hurts power). The wheels - more exclusive than in 20"...I much prefer them over any wheel I've seen to date. And having the FRPP CAI installed and certified is huge! My point, that the curve will show that in the long term that it was a great car regardless of the timing.

 

 

...so what's the harm in in this discussion? It seems some want those who, lacking the facts as we all do, are looking for insight in various ways -- discussion, Plasan filing, conecting the dots (something Homeland Security is not doing well at either), whatever tidbits may be available or of interest -- to just stop (go drive your cars, etc). What makes anyone think they're not enjoying their cars? What gives anyone the right to suggest anyone else 'beat it?' Are people with alternative viewpoints to be banished by the 'majority' -- just because they have a different opinion? Such statements are just a veiled surrogate for telling someone: beat it, we don't like your type here, we don't like what your saying, you're not welcome here. In short, a gentlemanly 'mob-rule' mentality. I find that far more inappropriate than any comments that use some logic to speculate or connect the dots, etc.

Good thing they stopped drowning witches.

 

Hey, I don't know the facts either and the ones I'm aware of don't seem to wash either party 'clean' or necesarily fully agree with either party's statements to date, so I kinda like seeing everyone's viewpoints here -- whether I agree with them or not.

 

...I'll not list all such questions I have in my mind here because I have no interest in inciting anyone or exposing such logic to those who might be inclinded to feel only the 'enemy' could have such questions. Suffice it to say I'm not a fan of mob-rule.

 

...So while Tob may have views that some disagree with (I don't agree with all his views either), I applaud his willingness to share them and those that disagree to share their views as well. All reasoned arguments and discussion should be welcome. Is it all based on facts? No. Is there lots of seculation and connecting-the-dots, Yup. Is there something wrong with discussing such differeing viewpoints? No. Some seem to feel it serves no purpose -- fine. Othere feel it does -- fine. No one is making anyone participate here and everyone who does participate is free to do so how they see fit within the rules of the forums.

 

What I do find offensive is the implication that because some viewpoints are in the minority that those folks should be silent else be admonished to go drive their cars or whatever. That is a hallmark of a mob-rule mentality, imho, and that's not what I think we're collectively about here ...at least I hope not.

 

-Dan

 

Why is it nobody likes fair and balanced? :koolaid:

 

 

You know Dan, I don't disagree with you. everyone should be able to post their opinion regardless of which side. Unfortunately this is web site and all others web sites are not set up like a debate with rules. The first to post something new wins, wins what, not sure.Tthe first to post negative or vile opinions sets the tone. In all my years with websites I don't think I have ever seen a controversial post have a fair first post.

 

I can't argue with respect to tone. But most can discern intent within a reasonable amount of time. And as long as one is given a fair opportunity to respond, the heart of the matter will rise to the top and any bias will eventually become secondary.

 

Tob

[amyb]

<snip>

 

Tob, you need to take this all offline,

 

the post is now closed