SVT NAJA Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Two hikers have gone missing on Oregon's Mount Hood (in a snowstorm) and a significant search and rescue effort is underway. Given they should have checked on the weather forecast before departing and failed to notify the Park Service of their plans and route, or rent a GPS locater transponder (for $5.00) in the event of an emergency, who should pay for this S&R effort? Summit Daily BTW, I hope they are found alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 weather can change fast in those levels no matter how much preparation was made. but all and all this is why everybody wants to live in america cause if you ask for help, someone will be there. look at fdny, they went into them towers when they know it was a death trap, but they still went in cause somebody needed help. if you are in a jam in everest, u are on your own buddy, Nepal police or rescue aint coming up there lol. sure they should've done this and done that but to be honest i know people that gets lost in a large local park (like central park lol). as for the money, yeahhh we all pay taxes and stuff but u just never know if one of these days if can happen to someone you personally know. most agencies have money set aside for things like this. they will bill you later but if don't pay they're not going to take you to court for it. well unless you lied and told authorities that someone was up there but in actualities there was nobody then they will for sure make u pay for it. but if its a legit rescue, no matter whos fault it is being up there in the first place, i don't have a problem for my tax dollars spent on them. i hope they all made it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawdude Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 i hope they all made it out. They didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtkeith Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 weather can change fast in those levels no matter how much preparation was made. but all and all this is why everybody wants to live in america cause if you ask for help, someone will be there. look at fdny, they went into them towers when they know it was a death trap, but they still went in cause somebody needed help. if you are in a jam in everest, u are on your own buddy, Nepal police or rescue aint coming up there lol. sure they should've done this and done that but to be honest i know people that gets lost in a large local park (like central park lol). as for the money, yeahhh we all pay taxes and stuff but u just never know if one of these days if can happen to someone you personally know. most agencies have money set aside for things like this. they will bill you later but if don't pay they're not going to take you to court for it. well unless you lied and told authorities that someone was up there but in actualities there was nobody then they will for sure make u pay for it. but if its a legit rescue, no matter whos fault it is being up there in the first place, i don't have a problem for my tax dollars spent on them. i hope they all made it out. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Doctor Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Weather changing fast is just an excuse, IMHO. If you do not act with all due diligence in these matters then why should I, or any others, pay for your incautiousness? In other words, if you can't fix stupid then why should I pay for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawdude Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Weather changing fast is just an excuse, IMHO. If you do not act with all due diligence in these matters then why should I, or any others, pay for your incaustiousness? In other words, if you can't fix stupid then why should I pay for it? Looks like a recovery and not a rescue. I guess we can bill their estate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07-2937 Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 the law of the jungle settled that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAD SNAKE Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 If you climb Mt. Rainer there's a $15 "insurance" fee you have to pay if want to climb with out a guide. That rescue bill is around $10,000. Yes the climber should have to pay the bill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtkeith Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 You mess with mother nature you sometimes pay the ultimate price. It's sad though if they are dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordFan1 Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 It seems to happen here every year, it's friggin December "Let's climb a mountain peak in the Cascades!!!" ... I don't get it And NOT to take advantage of the safe guards and letting people know of your climb plans is beyond me... So far 1 has been found dead, sorry to say it maybe spring/summer before they find the other 2 since a severe winter storm is scheduled to hit the mountain later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherri Leicht Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 This is sad that they have perished. But a little common sense could have been their friend. They or their estate should be charged something for their rescue/recovery services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawdude Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 We need to start billing stray cats rescued from trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfarmdog Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 We need to start billing stray cats rescued from trees. I have personal experience with both rescues and body recoveries on Mt Hood, Raineer, the Cascades and the Olympic Mountains. I am by no means an expert but I have seen enough scenarios to know that even the best get bit. It is easy to say they could have been better prepared and in fact, even the best climbers could be even better prepared. The bottom line is that you can not plan for every scenario and sometimes what seems like a harmless outing can end in tragedy. I for one would be happy to pay the $10K rescue bill if they saved my life in the process and I am pretty sure most of us if hit with a bill after being rescued would pay it. Getting out in the outdoors is a wonderful thing but it also puts you at risk. I am sad to hear about more fatalities and my heart goes out to their families. Respect the weather, hope for the best but plan for the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedRacer Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Two hikers have gone missing on Oregon's Mount Hood (in a snowstorm) and a significant search and rescue effort is underway. Given they should have checked on the weather forecast before departing and failed to notify the Park Service of their plans and route, or rent a GPS locater transponder (for $5.00) in the event of an emergency, who should pay for this S&R effort? Summit Daily BTW, I hope they are found alive. They should pay; or, their estate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawdude Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 They should pay; or, their estate... By the time other legal obligations are met, many don't have much of an estate. Food for thought. If no criminal laws were broken, restitution cannot be enforced through criminal court. Unless there is some law laying out civil liability or some express/implied contract establishing a foundation for damages, I don't see how restitution can be enforced that way either. What're you gonna do, send 'em a bill and hope 1) they've got the money and 2) they're inclined to fork over the cash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twobjshelbys Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 In Colorado if you buy a hunting or fishing license you make a contribution to a recovery fund that pays for these. If you have one, you're covered. You can also but that coverage. With over 50 mountain peaks over 14000' in Colorado there are lots of rescues each year. Then add the avalanche victims and all the other things that can go wrong in the mountains and there are lots of opportunities for rescues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 By the time other legal obligations are met, many don't have much of an estate. Food for thought. If no criminal laws were broken, restitution cannot be enforced through criminal court. Unless there is some law laying out civil liability or some express/implied contract establishing a foundation for damages, I don't see how restitution can be enforced that way either. What're you gonna do, send 'em a bill and hope 1) they've got the money and 2) they're inclined to fork over the cash? You dont send a bill to the deceased. I think they paid enough, but there is precidence for billing. There was a couple who was towing thier car behind a camper that lost a tire, it started fires for miles. They received the bill for supression, cant remember how much it was but in the millions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordFan1 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Portland,OR KATU NEWS Poll Results so far / bottom right hand corner http://www.katu.com/ Should emergency-locator units, otherwise known as homing beacons, be required for mountain climbers? Yes 89% No 9% I'm not sure 2% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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