How would you react....if it was your Shelby?

[SGT/SC#0471]

Sap Gloves that is. Asks 6 times where driver was going "specifically" when he is given a City as an answer all 6 times? Then commands driver out of car and waves sap gloved hand within 6 inches of drivers face...and attempts intimidation/reaction and again asks where the driver is going. Lectures, acts tough and is a general jerk losing his temper.

 

 

 

 

 

Ok cops and cop lovers on the site what say you guys? I witnesed this behavior, sad and true...

 

 

[Fontech]

[clark17357]

What, no cell phone video of the exchange?

 

Jim

[08 Mustang]

What, no cell phone video of the exchange?

 

Jim

 

 

That would have been awesome!

[sportscars]

Sap Gloves that is. Asks 6 times where driver was going "specifically" when he is given a City as an answer all 6 times? Then commands driver out of car and waves sap gloved hand within 6 inches of drivers face...and attempts intimidation/reaction and again asks where the driver is going. Lectures, acts tough and is a general jerk losing his temper.

 

 

Ok cops and cop lovers on the site what say you guys? I witnesed this behavior, sad and true...

 

 

As apposed to "cop haters"??? Guess we know where you fall on that one.

 

Not to defend the cop, but he obviously wanted a more "specific" answer and the driver was being intentionally obtuse. Had the driver given the cop the info he wanted it probably could have all been avoided. Same thing I tell my kids. Like them or not, they have a CRAPPY job, risking their lives to protect the ungrateful, dealing with the worst people alive, scrapping kids and teens off the pavement because of stupid behavior and getting zero respect from the people they are serving.

 

If you havent done anything wrong, you dont have anything to be afraid of.

 

Just my $.02, of course....

[SGT/SC#0471]

No but I am sure they had it on the police car cam but I'd bet if ya had an attorney request it, they could not find it.

 

They can only find it if they need it. Some how when they act silly or worse, they lose the tape. But if they are making fun of a fat person they send it in an e-mail to thier buddies.

 

This guy had way too much coffee...8:30 am:

 

Smacks trunk of car, goes to passenger window...

 

Where ya going in such a hurry?

 

Portland Sir.

 

Where at in Portland?

 

Portland sir.

 

And this is YOUR car?

 

Sure is.

 

Got anything in this car you should not have like drugs?

 

No officer, absolutley not.

 

SO, Where are you going?

 

Portland.

 

No Specifically?

 

South Portland Sir.

 

Where are you going?

 

Portland.

 

Look, Where are you going in Such a Hurry now I want to know?

 

Portland.

 

I need you to Get out of the car NOW, SIR!

 

Wish I had a video camera on my iphone this dude was hilarious...I'd swear he was on dope...seemed like a hard core meth tweeker.

 

Ticket for 10 over. We were in the carpool lane no cars in front of us, light traffic. On a weekday 8:30 am I guess when you have a 60k car and are not wearing yuppie clothes and not going to work you should be jacked with...Officer was 5'5 or less...

 

Roid rage? Lack of intimacy at home? Too much coffee? Drugs?

 

Funny thing is he was actually then attempting to provoke my friend physically (who is over 6') outside the car. Friend would step back cop steps forward back up in his face.

 

mind you we are in our 40's.

 

When my friend said he did not have to answer any more questions dude freaked and Said he was "conducting an investigation on wreckless driving, a criminal offense, you were going 90" but then wrote it for 10 over.

 

I dont even think we were speeding....

[SGT/SC#0471]

As apposed to "cop haters"??? Guess we know where you fall on that one.

 

Not to defend the cop, but he obviously wanted a more "specific" answer and the driver was being intentionally obtuse. Had the driver given the cop the info he wanted it probably could have all been avoided. Same thing I tell my kids. Like them or not, they have a CRAPPY job, risking their lives to protect the ungrateful, dealing with the worst people alive, scrapping kids and teens off the pavement because of stupid behavior and getting zero respect from the people they are serving.

 

If you havent done anything wrong, you dont have anything to be afraid of.

 

Just my $.02, of course....

 

 

AS opposed to people who are unbiased, OBVIOUSLY not you.

 

IT is none of his business where at in Portland we are going. And we are not required to tell him.

 

And BTW you are defending the cop.

[SGT/SC#0471]

As apposed to "cop haters"??? Guess we know where you fall on that one.

 

Not to defend the cop, but he obviously wanted a more "specific" answer and the driver was being intentionally obtuse. Had the driver given the cop the info he wanted it probably could have all been avoided. Same thing I tell my kids. Like them or not, they have a CRAPPY job, risking their lives to protect the ungrateful, dealing with the worst people alive, scrapping kids and teens off the pavement because of stupid behavior and getting zero respect from the people they are serving.

 

If you havent done anything wrong, you dont have anything to be afraid of.

 

Just my $.02, of course....

 

 

 

Statistically its more dangerous to drive a truck.

[clark17357]

I am with Sportscars on this one. It was in the driver's control to say, for instance, "I'm going to Portland to my Mom's house." The driver was being deliberately obtuse. The driver had no idea what had been discussed at the LEO briefing that morning and how that might have affected the questions being asked of him or her by the LEO. In the end, it never pays to try and "game" a LEO. In the end, it was the LEO who was getting attitude. The fact that it was passive agressive attitude does not change anything. In this world, you have to ask yourself what you could have done to make a bad situation less so. In your example, the driver could have and should have just answered the question. Why did the driver not do that? You seem to know the driver. Did you suggest that to him or her after the fact? Sometimes a debrief like that can help avoid another similar situation. Like Sportscar said, LEOs have a tough job and the least we can do is not make it more so.

 

Jim

[clark17357]

Statistically its more dangerous to drive a truck.

 

You are in the PNW and, given what happened up your way recently, I would not want to try and sell that statistic at this exact point in time.

 

Jim

[SGT/SC#0471]

I am with Sportscars on this one. It was in the driver's control to say, for instance, "I'm going to Portland to my Mom's house." The driver was being deliberately obtuse. The driver had no idea what had been discussed at the LEO briefing that morning and how that might have affected the questions being asked of him or her by the LEO. In the end, it never pays to try and "game" a LEO. In the end, it was the LEO who was getting attitude. The fact that it was passive agressive attitude does not change anything. In this world, you have to ask yourself what you could have done to make a bad situation less so. In your example, the driver could have and should have just answered the question. Why did the driver not do that? You seem to know the driver. Did you suggest that to him or her after the fact? Sometimes a debrief like that can help avoid another similar situation. Like Sportscar said, LEOs have a tough job and the least we can do is not make it more so.

 

Jim

 

 

Well Jim he SMACKED the trunk of a 60k sportscar before even seeing who was driving it, so now what to your theroy.

 

How would you feel if he smacked the trunk of your Shelby? No one has answered that.

 

instead AS ALWAYS DEFEND THE COP.

 

He has no right to know where we were going anyway...

 

what planet are you people on.

 

Veterans have given a LOT for freedom yet this coward has the right to know why we are going to Portland after disrespecting my friends car with a sap glove and then acting HOSTLE?

 

You are both nuts, IMHO, sorry I disagree.

[SGT/SC#0471]

You are in the PNW and, given what happened up your way recently, I would not want to try and sell that statistic at this exact point in time.

 

Jim

 

 

 

The truth is the truth, Federal Statistic not mine.

 

Usually its a citizen getting capped around here Jim. Bremerton cop shot a retarded guy in a tree and then claimed she meant to use her stun gun, just grabbed the "wrong gun".

 

Nothing happened to her and the guy dies, bet you did not read about that in San Diego.

 

Yeah my Friends who are nationaly known musicians are playing a benefit for the Dead Officers. Tragedy.

[FormerGmc]

"He has no right to know where we were going anyway..."

 

Correct.

[ShelbyDude]

Where are you going in such a hurry?

 

Am I under arrest?

 

No.

 

Am I free to go?

 

Where are you going?

 

Am I under arrest or am I free to go?

 

Step out of the car?

 

Are you making an order?

 

I would send him a bill!

[stump_breaker]

If you felt threatened by the officer you should have immediately called for his supervisor and if possible, file a complaint. Assuming any damage to your vehicle, you could go to small claims court. It's about $35 or so to file if you don't hire an attorney.

 

Normally insisting on a supervisor to arrive stops all confrontations but you better be damn sure you're in the right.

[Larry T]

If you felt threatened by the officer you should have immediately called for his supervisor and if possible, file a complaint. Assuming any damage to your vehicle, you could go to small claims court. It's about $35 or so to file if you don't hire an attorney.

 

Normally insisting on a supervisor to arrive stops all confrontations but you better be damn sure you're in the right.

 

 

 

I agree, the only thing that I have to add is

 

A) It is a thankless crappy job, alot like a veteran it takes balls to do

B) If you are labelling all law enforcement as bad then that is not correct either

C) If it is a young officer, not in age just maturity, then he develops a GOD complex but that same complex is found in lawyers, doctors, and yes sometimes in enlisted personnel as well

D) If you are fair and honest to then mostly, not always, they are fair to you.....but lets face it in a court of law its your word against theirs no matter if you are right

 

 

 

Its not my coloring book or my crayons so we just have to abide by the rules

 

 

just my opinion

[NordicShelby]

You should have just said if you have anything to say here is my attorney call him otherwise just give me my ticket and see ya.

[cobrafan]

As apposed to "cop haters"??? Guess we know where you fall on that one.

 

Not to defend the cop, but he obviously wanted a more "specific" answer and the driver was being intentionally obtuse.

 

The driver was a democrat, you never get a straight answer from one of those guys.

[oldguyrock]

I believe there is two sides to every story, therefore it would be irresponsible to render a conclusion without hearing the other side.

 

SUSPECT: "Gee, golly judge, I didn't murder those 17 people".

 

JUDGE: " You seem like an honest straightforward young man Mr. Dahmer. I believe you. Case dismissed".

[SGT/SC#0471]

I hear ya.

 

I gave my friend an attorneys phone number.

 

Truth was he was very hostle in actions and posture and tone of voice beginning with smacking the car.

 

I saw him in the side mirror. Then he had the sap gloves up in my face while talking to the driver. I kept my mouth shut, but felt very uncomfortable and threatened.

 

My friend is a beyond mellow dude, so it was not on his part IMHO, except for the fact that he did not wish to explain where we were going beyond Portland. Six times.

 

I mean give the guy a ticket and leave.

 

So then I wondered if it had been my car how would I have reacted?

 

I dont know, I just wish everyone in the world would just turn it down a notch. Its crazy.

 

Shelbydude, thats what I was thinking after being intimidated by this tiny man with a huge ego.

 

Whatever, I am sure that the ticket will get dismissed, he has a capable attorney on it. Interestingly enough the ticket does not show any passengers in the car, but I know I was there to witness this...he was a pretty young cop.

 

I have noticed if they have grey hair they are usually pretty cool, no idea why, just an observation.

 

Maybe they remember feeling free, pre police state.

[SpeedRacer]

I respect and admire LEOs. Without them society would breakdown and we would be living in total chaos. They risk their lives for us each and everyday. For that I say, thank you. However, I would say that a large percentage of LEOs have a "Nepoleon" or "small penis" syndrome. They actually get off on their authority and really like to use it. And, in some cases abuse it.

 

With that being said, I always treat all LEOs (even the pricks) with respect; answer all of their questions fully (they are checking to see if you've been drinking; or, belong in a particular area; or, are on the look out for someone in a similar car, etc...); and do everything they ask. I have never had a problem. But if I did, I would just take it at the time and report the LEO later to his supervisor , Capt, Chief or Commander.

 

Stuart

[Stalwart]

I had a Washington State Patrolman toss his metal ticket case on my Ferrari once, I was PISSED!

[ShelbyDude]

I agree, the only thing that I have to add is

 

A) It is a thankless crappy job, alot like a veteran it takes balls to do

B) If you are labelling all law enforcement as bad then that is not correct either

C) If it is a young officer, not in age just maturity, then he develops a GOD complex but that same complex is found in lawyers, doctors, and yes sometimes in enlisted personnel as well

D) If you are fair and honest to then mostly, not always, they are fair to you.....but lets face it in a court of law its your word against theirs no matter if you are right

 

 

 

Its not my coloring book or my crayons so we just have to abide by the rules

 

 

just my opinion

 

 

 

You should always be respectful no matter what. That does not mean you have to answer any questions. It is your right to not have to answer anything. That does not make you disrespectful. Quite the opposite. It is the smartest thing you can do! Answer NOTHING!

 

If a cop asks for your license, bill him for it. If he issues you a ticket, bill him for it. Any kind of order made by a corporate employee, send them a bill for the order.

 

It is no different than going out to eat. If you place an order you are given a bill and liable to pay it! When a corporate employee places any kind of order with you, give them a bill!

 

A guy in Flordia gave a cop a bill that worked out to be about $2,300 per minute for his time!

 

Also, you could press charges for stalking! Unless the cop is sitting at the police station where someone called to report you in order to get the police to come out, then it is stalking! They can NOT just pull you over, sit on the road taking radar, or whatever. That is stalking!

 

As for going to court, make the court establish jurisdiction. Demand the court to tell you under what jurisdiction they are charging you. They will NEVER tell you that! If you know what you are doing they will throw the case out every time! They can't tell you the jurisdiction without exposing their fraud! But if you SUBMIT jurisdiction to them then they got you! You never enter a plea without first having the court define under what jurisdiction they are acting under. How can you possibly defend yourself without knowing under what proper jurisdiction you are being charged?

[DarkShadow]

You should always be respectful no matter what. That does not mean you have to answer any questions. It is your right to not have to answer anything. That does not make you disrespectful. Quite the opposite. It is the smartest thing you can do! Answer NOTHING!

 

If a cop asks for your license, bill him for it. If he issues you a ticket, bill him for it. Any kind of order made by a corporate employee, send them a bill for the order.

 

It is no different than going out to eat. If you place an order you are given a bill and liable to pay it! When a corporate employee places any kind of order with you, give them a bill!

 

A guy in Flordia gave a cop a bill that worked out to be about $2,300 per minute for his time!

 

Also, you could press charges for stalking! Unless the cop is sitting at the police station where someone called to report you in order to get the police to come out, then it is stalking! They can NOT just pull you over, sit on the road taking radar, or whatever. That is stalking!

 

As for going to court, make the court establish jurisdiction. Demand the court to tell you under what jurisdiction they are charging you. They will NEVER tell you that! If you know what you are doing they will throw the case out every time! They can't tell you the jurisdiction without exposing their fraud! But if you SUBMIT jurisdiction to them then they got you! You never enter a plea without first having the court define under what jurisdiction they are acting under. How can you possibly defend yourself without knowing under what proper jurisdiction you are being charged?

 

Interesting. Could you please elaborate a bit more? Seriously.

 

DS

[ShelbyDude]

Interesting. Could you please elaborate a bit more? Seriously.

 

DS

 

 

 

ALL city, state and federal agencies are a private corporation. They have no jurisdiction over American citizens. In fact, they are not even US Citizens. They give up their citizenship upon taking their oath to office.

 

So let me ask you. Would you willing go along with some illegal alien that pulled you over and said they were going to write you a ticket for something?

 

If you were in the parking lot at say, walmart, and some employee of walmart came out and said they were going to write you a ticket for something...would you go along with it?

 

Probably not! Why not? Because you know they have no jurisdiction over you to do that! It is no different with government employees. They have no more jurisdiction over you than walmart, or some illegal alien would! They are employees of a private corporation. The courts are the same. Every single city, state and federal government office is the same. They can go after each other since they are part of the private corporation, but not the average citizen. Only people do not know this. Instead they "think" they have jurisdiction over them and every time they go to court they end up submitting to their jurisdiction the minute they state their full name and enter a plea.

 

The government made us as the people, private corporations. This is why they always use your full name in capital letters. A corporation must have a first and last name and are capitalized. ABC INC, ABC CORPORATION, etc.

 

When you appear in court, they will ask you to state your name for the record. Only give your first name as your full name. When they ask about your last name, I don't have a last name. Well about this name here? That's my family name. My birth name is John.

 

They will ask how you plea. Well, before we even get started here, first I need to know for the RECORD, what jurisdiction is this court hearing this case under? They may try to trick you by citing the statue they wrote the ticket under. NO, that is an alligation. I need to know under what jurisdiction this court is hearing this case under in order for me to know how to properly defend myself!

 

The bar using all kinds of different language that if you do not know what their language is they are using then how can you know how to defend yourself?

 

What you and I and the average person understand certain words to mean can mean something entirely different under the way the law defines it. You need clarifacation of the language before you can determine how you can properly defend yourself.

 

For example, when we say "person" we assume that to mean anyone being a human being. But the legal definition of "person" is Corporation. Are you a corporation?

 

What about "individual"? Are you an individual? In the common language yeah. But under the legal definition it could mean illegal alien.

 

Are you an illegal alien?

 

There is a lot to this, but once you underastand it properly you can pretty much get any case dismissed for lack of jurisdiction and failure to state a claim under in which relief can be granted.

 

You just gotta learn their legal language and have a full understand of their system, and most of all, you really got to know how to defend your paper work. Once they know you don't understand it they will nail you!

[SGT/SC#0471]

I had a Washington State Patrolman toss his metal ticket case on my Ferrari once, I was PISSED!

 

 

 

Ugh...

 

Some folks are just not "car people" I guess....

 

My non-car friends think I am nuts when I tell them cars are not bars or chairs...lean on the wall, or sit on a chair...

 

Shelby Dude I would love to observe that conversation as long as I was not the one getting pulled over...

 

I just rewatched this however...

 

 

 

 

[COBRA SCOTTY]

I LIKE STUART'S ANSWER ; HOWEVER SD AND RANDY HAVE

 

EXCELLENT POINTS. I WOULD HAVE BEEN RESPECTFUL AND THEN

 

CONTACTED THE COMMANDING OFFICERS AND TOLD HIM THAT THEY NEEDED

 

TO DISMISS THE TICKET OR I WOULD BE CONTACTING THE STATES SENATORS

 

OFFICE TO LET HIM OR HER KNOW HOW IT'S CITIZENS WERE BEING TREATED.IT

 

HAS WORKED ON TWO OCCASION WHEN I WAS TICKETED BY OFFICERS THAT WERE

 

HAVING A BAD DAY.

 

SCOTTY

[DarkShadow]

ALL city, state and federal agencies are a private corporation. They have no jurisdiction over American citizens. In fact, they are not even US Citizens. They give up their citizenship upon taking their oath to office.

 

So let me ask you. Would you willing go along with some illegal alien that pulled you over and said they were going to write you a ticket for something?

 

If you were in the parking lot at say, walmart, and some employee of walmart came out and said they were going to write you a ticket for something...would you go along with it?

 

Probably not! Why not? Because you know they have no jurisdiction over you to do that! It is no different with government employees. They have no more jurisdiction over you than walmart, or some illegal alien would! They are employees of a private corporation. The courts are the same. Every single city, state and federal government office is the same. They can go after each other since they are part of the private corporation, but not the average citizen. Only people do not know this. Instead they "think" they have jurisdiction over them and every time they go to court they end up submitting to their jurisdiction the minute they state their full name and enter a plea.

 

The government made us as the people, private corporations. This is why they always use your full name in capital letters. A corporation must have a first and last name and are capitalized. ABC INC, ABC CORPORATION, etc.

 

When you appear in court, they will ask you to state your name for the record. Only give your first name as your full name. When they ask about your last name, I don't have a last name. Well about this name here? That's my family name. My birth name is John.

 

They will ask how you plea. Well, before we even get started here, first I need to know for the RECORD, what jurisdiction is this court hearing this case under? They may try to trick you by citing the statue they wrote the ticket under. NO, that is an alligation. I need to know under what jurisdiction this court is hearing this case under in order for me to know how to properly defend myself!

 

The bar using all kinds of different language that if you do not know what their language is they are using then how can you know how to defend yourself?

 

What you and I and the average person understand certain words to mean can mean something entirely different under the way the law defines it. You need clarifacation of the language before you can determine how you can properly defend yourself.

 

For example, when we say "person" we assume that to mean anyone being a human being. But the legal definition of "person" is Corporation. Are you a corporation?

 

What about "individual"? Are you an individual? In the common language yeah. But under the legal definition it could mean illegal alien.

 

Are you an illegal alien?

 

There is a lot to this, but once you underastand it properly you can pretty much get any case dismissed for lack of jurisdiction and failure to state a claim under in which relief can be granted.

 

You just gotta learn their legal language and have a full understand of their system, and most of all, you really got to know how to defend your paper work. Once they know you don't understand it they will nail you!

 

And I suppose we are not legally obligated to pay taxes either right? Sorry for the sarcasm but what you are saying seems a bit far fetched. If this was the case then every felon would have their lawyer do what you just said and walk away scott free. There has to be more to it than that.

[SGT/SC#0471]

Teach me to post about cops and tickets .... I just got "photographed" by this rig...hahahah

 

 

 

 

I got out and snapped a picture...

 

He asked what I was doing. I said taking a picture. I asked what he was doing. He said taking a picture of your truck speeding, "I Guess". I said Cool well "I guess" we will see ya in court. He said looking forward to it...

 

 

Priceless.

 

Now how in the f a 5500 lb truck can accelerate to over 35 after a 1/2 block I have no idea...and how in the F can you get a ticket from a van with a camera flash on top if they cannot identify the driver positivley?

 

...this is all new to me.

 

The officer looked surprised when I took a pic of the van, he was sitting in the back with a laptop he reached up and rolled down the passenger side window, I could not see in as the windows were ultra tint on all sides (a violation I might add...haha).

 

Talk about a crappy job in a polyester getup no less...hahaha.

 

Now 2 weeks ago I had a very crazy MF at one of my businesses threating to kill my female employee with a knife and he tried to rip out my office window...to get at her.

 

Nothing happened to him and I mean nothing...no arrest nothing. He had a big buck knife and insinuated to my employee that he had a gun in his pocket, cops only found a knife.

 

Cop wanted to leave while he was upstairs, its an urban mini-storage. I asked him what I should do, "man to man, off the record", he said call 911 again if he causes anymore trouble.

 

I sugested that the next call to 911 was gonna be for the coroner after he gets capped if he pulled a knife or a gun on me and that was the ONLY thing that kept him there until I could kick he guy out and no tresspass him from the property. I had to convince the officer that I was serious and he told me the guy had been arrested 14 times in the last year. Mostly for assult.

 

but drive 36 and you're screwed THIS is what is ruining this country....seriously.

 

101% Police State, backed up by folks who think they are "helping".

 

Neglect and Collect..............thats how I see it.

[DubbsFaris]

Geez....take a breath and count to 5 at least....

 

As usual, SD started out with the right answer, but I dont know where it went from there... you show nothing but respect when you are under detainment of the police. You DONT loose your temper no matter how provoked you are...

 

My 1L Criminal Law professor's first words were- Do NOT answer the police questioning in any case EVER. I cant stress this free legal advise enough...DONT EVER TALK TO THE POLICE WHEN YOU ARE THE ACCUSSED. GO DIRECTLY TO A LAWYER, SAY NOTHING. You have rights, USE them...but that was criminal law...this is not really.

 

For speeding and traffic violations....give every answer you have to, show respect, and if the guy is an ass, he is an ass. The ONLY opinion that matters is the jury or judge. If you are ABSOLUTELY in the right, take it to a jury....if not, tell your case to the prosecutor and plea it down....those are your only two choices anyway.

 

Even if the cop is totally in the wrong...you are not in the position to challenge them. Freedom is not your right on public roads. You are given the priveledge of driving on publicly funded roads that you may have helped pay for, but are not YOURS alone, which means there will always be a loss of freedom which you already give up in being a licensed driver. In fact, there is no freedom in your own home. Are you free to kill people in your home without provokation? no. There is no absolution to the right of freedom...its merely a concept. Dont get caught up in the word and loose the meaning.

 

I feel ya, I get pissed too when I get a d!ck like that pull me over...but you have 2 choices at that point. Cooperate or go to jail...they are not interested in seeing how smart you think you are. They are many times jaded and upset anyway, so you arent even speaking to someone rational at that point...just do what I do...pretend like you are being yelled at by your wife.